Do you believe in a minimum wage? Does the minimum wage increase unemployment?

[KelleyNice]

I did some research about employment, especially teenage employment in 1950.

In 1950, the minimum wage was $0.75. Apparently, that was not enough to cause unemployment because in 1950, 52% of all teenagers (age 16-19) were employed earning an average of $1,500 per year less than half the adult rate.

In 1950, over 50 percent of black male teenagers (age 16-19) were employed; by 1970, 33 percent were employed; and by 1978 only 25% were employed. Were the reductions the result of increases in the minimum wage?

If the minimum wage doesn’t increase the unemployment, it should be $100 per hour so that all workers could earn $200,000 per year.

Updates

+1 y

A common false belief is that without a minimum wage, employers will take advantage of employees and not pay them what they are worth. An employer cannot even take advantage of a child. Ask you 12 year old neighbor to babysit. In 5 hours when you return you hand her $5. She may not say anything but the next time you call she’s busy.

Instead, a minimum wage can cause higher unemployment. With a $50 per hour minimum wage, what chance does that young babysitter have of finding babysitting jobs?

[Losalt]

It's a false belief that employers can't take advantage of workers and pay them slave wages if they choose.
The only way workers have to combat that is unionization, but the US has faught against worker rights tooth and nail.
It's true that you don't necessarily *need* a minimum wage, there *are* other possible mechanisms that can be used.
In my country we don't have a minimum wage for the whole economy.
Instead we have a "minimum wage" for each sector of the economy based on the negotiations between the unions, employers and the state.
And paying significantly less then agreed upon even for someone not unionized for a job within such a sector is illegal, regardless of what the employee is willing to accept.
The beauty of the system is its flexibility.
In bad times the wage can technically even be lowered to help profitability and keep companies afloat, in return unions may negotiate other benefits, for instance better pentions from the state or better vacations, or better workers rights (job security etc)
And with our welfare system and worker rights you end up with workers who are willing to accept probably being furloughed at times.

[DWornock]

Of course I do not believe in the minimum wage because it increases unemployment and provides no worthwhile benefit.

[Anonymous]

I do but I think it more important for the us to have good jobs that pay. Minimum wage jobs are really only meant for students, school kids, retired folks, part timers etc.
Once America was the land of opportunity. You could easily work a summer and pay your way through college, get a good full time job straight out of school, easily buy a house, buy a decent car, get married, have kids, get healthcare, eat out now all in you 20s now you've got 30 year olds living with their parents after 8 years of college, huge debts that aren't getting married or having kids. To get anywhere in America today you either have to be born into serious money or be seriously gifted.

[Adaeva]

The minimum wage serves no useful purpose. It prevents some people for getting a job. It is extremely harmful to teenagers because they never gain the experience necessary to be worth enough to get a job.

[DaveJord]

Well the sad fact is that most people today could make more money if they were unemployed... but they'd rather collect disability, welfare or unemployment because it enough to live on without hassle of actually having work or contribute to society in anyway.

No I don't believe in minnium wage, you increase minnium wage by 10% and then everything starts costing 10% more. So minnium wage is just something political organizations threw at the uneducated masses inorder to get votes. Minnium wage drives inflation, but honestly the only way the Federal Government can get corporations to actually pay taxes (because of the fucked up tax policy, which Democrats for all thier pandering to social injustice groups is going to do nothing about) is to increase minnium wage so corporations have to pay more in salary and then federal government can collect higher tax rates on income taxes.

Thats right minnium wage is joke, you'd do better with maximum wage... meaning anything over a maximum wage gets taxed at 50%. But then you would have close off the loops holes, so the wealthy pays taxes on thier assets and corporations have pay taxes on their earnings. That would cut down on stock speculation.

[intertwinedramen]

Let me first answer your *update* argument briefly, historically many horrifyig types of slavery existed and without derict worker protection there will be severe exploitation, let's not go back in time and instead look at some of the incarcerated population in the USA with an average hourly rate in the double digit cents.
Businesses operate with profit based incentives and vastly will pay common workers as low as they get away with to not be driven out by competition and here comes my opinion on the former part of your post, I am a prominent for reasonable minimum wage as worker protection it's efficient to sweep away unpractical jobs and the new demand spiral up for businesses that doesn't have to starve workers to keep operating.
The issue stems on where the level wasteful labor and keeping the profit incentive enough for the financial capital to not escape to a more efficient environment if the minimum wage is too high (where even good jobs are swept out)
It's a difficult balance and would differ from a country or even a state to the next and what's right will have to be implemented regionally.

[Kaneki05]

Minimum wage is a simple thing it never changes anything really. It's problems come when people try to stop the minimum wage increasing or companies try to sell stuff more than what's been given for minimum wage.
For example if coke just started to try sell a can for $5 that would be them getting greedy causing many problems. I use coke as a simple example but of course this applies to more vital things that also get increased.

Anyway back to why it never really changes anything is because the cost of things adjust to the money people earn, and the money people get adjusts to things they buy it's always worked that way.
Whether your earning 80p an hour but a can of pop is 10p or your earning £8 a hour but a can of pop is £1 it's not actually one was cheaper or better. Both are the same even though they may not feel as such. I used my currency here cause it was easier for me but hopefully ya can get the point.
In the future people will be paid in in the fiftys but a fifty won't mean what it means today. A 50 would be somewhat equally to what a 10 is now.
That's just how it works and always has. Therefore there is no point really worrying about it.
Minimum wage needs to exist along with increasing it. Because in fact it's the simplest way to do it. Trust me it gets way more harder to try and make everything stay the same price forever and allow jobs to pay people whatever which is arguably just against human rights especially if they can choose to pay one person more than another just cause they feel like it. Minimum makes sure people are always given a fair number that should be for everyone as they start without getting scammed.

[Kaneki05]

Also minimum wage increases unemployment rate? I think that's more of belief system that people use against minimum wage than a factual bases of evidence to prove that to be true. I am not a massive egghead on it but I am sure there is research that will show it don't. And after shortly looking up, it seems I was right there.
Of course one would need to dig deeper but eh such things bore me tbf. But all I do know is it needs to exist anyway.

[KelleyNice]

So many words for so little value. If coke just started to try sell a can for $5 that would NOT be them getting greedy. It would be foolish and a quick way to go out of business. The stores wouldn't be stocked with cokes. They would be stocked with Pepsi's.

[Kaneki05]

I don't think you understand my point. Since I was pointing out that was foolish lmao.

[KelleyNice]

@Kaneki05 at times, I am a bit mentally challenged.

[Kaneki05]

Ah. That's good to know because yeah I think you may of misunderstood a lot of my points here actually. One would be I wasn't trying to say that coke rising to that price would be a good thing I was using it as example that would be bad. But that price is basically a X number. You can replace that by anything. Whether it's only a couple cents more.
This is from a foolish greed that will lead to the company selling such thing either getting away with it which often they do when they increase it by a little. But sometimes they don't.
Such example would be multiple times I've seen Doritos try to go up to £2 in stores but they often get put back to £1.25 because no one actually buys them at £2 that's to much. But you notice that 25? on the end? That never used to be there it was always £1. And bam they just got away with increasing the price of the item. Now people accept £1.25 but as they do that's just ever so slightly increased the living cost of anyone who buys that product.

Now imagine this applied to everything, gas, water bills etc. More vital things. Such things happens all the time. Which then increases how much we need to be paid. That's just the system we live in.
My point afterwards is this balances out because we start getting paid more so in reality nothing changes.
The numbers change but the value don't really. Now there is for sure cases were values do change but I am speaking broadly here.
Hope you can see my point here. If not I've tried my best to explain it. And I would try to explain why you may of missed a perspective on the rest of what I said here. But as you can see I've wrote a lot already on this to say this topic bores me lol.

[MCheetah]

Yes, I believe we should have a minimum wage, as long as it's not too high, as that would just reduce jobs. Better to have a low-paying job than none at all. And yes, it does create some unemployment because paying people more money means less workers, but the point of it is, to pay as many people as possible without causing widespread unemployment... You know, if corporations didn't intentionally try to f*ck over workers purely out of greed.

The minimum wage should be a thing in society, but it has been stuck for a WHILE now as far as the US is concerned. I think they raised it from $5.25 to $7.25 in like, 2007. I'VE worked minimum wage jobs before in the late 2000s and early 2010s. I think it should be at least $9 an hour now, but $15 like Bernie Sanders wanted is too much.

[KelleyNice]

You admit the minimum wage causes unemployment (which obviously prevent some people from eating) and yet you are in favor of it. Are that lacking in compassion for the poorest and least capable among us?

[MCheetah]

I ALSO explained that it is necessary because without a minimum wage, workers would be paying employees too little for them to survive, anyway. It's how Communist China works with its sweatshops, essentially. *Some* people won't be able to work with a minimum wage, but at least the ones who do would be earning more than 50 cents an hour. Thus, it is necessary and the good outweighs the bad.

[KelleyNice]

I'm amazed at how many people believe that employers could dictate how much they will pay and that the employees have to accept it. That only applies for slaves including the slaves in American prisons. It doesn't work and has never worked when people have a choice. Try telling your doctor, lawyer, or plumber that you are going to pay minimum wage and see what happens. Is it even necessary for me to explain what they are going to do?

I watched this movie with the time in the 1800s in a populated large city with extremely high unemployment. She got a job making clothing in what could only be described as a sweatshop with very little pay for long hours 6 days a week. The movie protracted the owner as a rich, evil, uncaring brute. However, in real life, at the time, she would be one of the lucky ones because at least she could buy food. There would be dozens of women living on a cracker a day that would love to take her place.

And, in real life, the owner would be trying to survive. If he provided better working conditions and/or paid the women more, he would have to raise his prices and the garment wouldn't sell when undersold by less costly imported clothing. In the old west when common labor was $1 a day, a rancher may pay ranch hands $10 a month plus room and board. However, he would have no competent takers at $1 a month.

[MCheetah]

Many of the employers are job makers, so they DO dictate how much they could pay. Even if most refused to work for the employers, all it takes is a small amount of people willing to do what they need to, to survive.

[N192K001]

Yes, to both: the minimum-wage exists, and it DOES increase unemployment as a side-effect.

In Economics, this isn't even disputed. Here is an M. I. T. peer-reviewed academic research-paper on the matter:
https://economics.mit.edu/files/9497
And here's Cornell University's:
https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/75106/Fields40_The_Unemployment_Effects_of_Minimum_Wages.pdf?sequence=1

I & many of my past professors opposed it, but they acknowledged that other professors who supported it only differ in deciding if the side-effect is minimal enough to justify successfully-employeds' higher wages.

[Sixgunsound]

Minimum wage is universally bad for everybody involved in the transaction, full stop. You make excellent points, and I would invite you to look into Walter Williams, legendary black economist, and his work debunking the minimum wage especially for black people.

[genericname85]

no i think minimum wage causes inflation and rise in prices. not unemployment. so it is meant as a measure to "help" low income individuals but it actually harms them. cause yeah they get more value on paper. but in the real world, the things you can buy with that money goes down, so you actually lose more than you gain.

[SlightlyEccentric]

If you are 18 years old and you are still accepting minimum wage, you've failed yourself. No one, and I mean NO ONE, who is a legal adult should ever be accepting jobs that only offer minimum wage. Those kinds of jobs are for teenagers still in high school, not grown adults with a spouse and kids.

[Aerissa_Jade]

I think there needs to be one, but it needs to be kind of low... but supply and demand, right now jobs are starting out at 15-18 an hour around here, more than double minimum wage and companies still can't hire enough help.

When the economy sucks though, and lots of people not working... not enough jobs, then raising it would be bad cause companies would cut jobs to keep costs the same.

Employees are a companies most expensive cost.

[MCheetah]

Until the AI and robots start replacing everyone, that is.
"Damn machine took mer' jerb!"

[Aerissa_Jade]

@MCheetah That's okay, the government will tax the robots to give everyone else UBI 😂😂😂😂

[Jamesshinobi]

I dont believe in a minimum wage. i have worked for free. people that focus on income instead of outcome tend to need, and be worth a minimum wage. they also won't understand and will ridicule the statement "income instead of outcome" as viciously as they ridiculed the statement "why dont poor people just buy more money" if only they would spend a fraction of the energy learning to understand the successful people that said those things.

[PatriceONeal]

Minimum wage is a false economy that causes unnecessary inflation. You're paying people more money to people who didn't earn new skills or experiences in parallel to their raises. More people would be working if there wasn't a minimum wage and people could pay kids and young adults for odd jobs like we used to in our country. Think poolboys and lawncare but its not outsourced from Mexico.

[bamesjond0069]

Of course it does. However its not a straight 1 to 1 ratio because its not a simple formula. Inflation and illegal under the table employment is popular. Cost to consumer is another aspect. All these things and more work together. But as someone with a degree in economics and finance i can tell you there are lots of downsides and no upsides to a minimum wage. You can't just will low value work to be high paid.

[bamesjond0069]

One thing of note thats similar is they ended child labor. Know what happened next? There were tons of child prostitutes. On top of that there were so many the price for a "good time" was so cheap that had to work hard doing it since it was so cheap and such a competitive business. isn't that sick? And its from people who were "helping the children".

[exitseven]

Yes, and it should be raised. I think it is currently $7.50. I see fast food places offering 16-16 dollars/hour. I realize if it gets too much, a lot of companies will install automation but this has been going on for decades anyway.
As soon as driverless cars are figured out there will be mass unemployment anyway.

[FenderMustango]

Yes because you would get people like Jeff Bezos forcing Amazon workers to work for pennies because he knows desperate people will work. Plus you would also get a lot of exploitation no minnimum wage ok I won't pay you at all and keep you as slave labour. Also arguments that if you had an increase in minum wage which is totally doable in the UK and USA as it would not imapact rich CEOs to much what is 5 million worth when they make billions a year.

[Agape93]

No. I believe in being paid based upon written contract, what you and an employer believe you and your skills are worth.

[OddBeMe]

1) increases should keep up with inflation. So from 1950 to today, minimum wage should be $30
2) making all workers earn $200k would be an economic coup if done organically. Not commie style. Businesses do have to be a factor.
3) what i think the real issue is that our economy has changed from labor to service. Its all about lucrative skills and education. Not college per se, though those grads are 10x more likely to succeed in life. But tech colleges, hell even online youtube courses.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Yes I believe in a minimum wage and a good decent minimum wage lest greedy scumbags take advantage of others who are in a vulnerable position in life.

If you work full time and put in effort at work then you should get paid what's fairly and just to make a decent living. Age is totally irrelevant.

[shaysh87]

actually minimum wage jobs typically have high turnover where people quit all the time for higher paying jobs. Minimum wage jobs also tend to be harder to fill than jobs that pay well. I have worked minimum wage jobs. I know what its like out there.

[In_Trance]

Minimum wage should be abolished.
It protects the lazy

[KelleyNice]

I agree the minimum wage should be abolished. With some exceptions, I don't believe it protects the lazy. It does prevent those that are inexperienced and/or have other deficiencies, and worth less than minimum wage from getting a job.

[In_Trance]

I respect your opinion but I disagree.
People that are inexperienced can obtain jobs and be hired at an appropriate wage.
Everyone in the working world thinks they're worth more money but they're protected by minimum wage and wage scale. Day in and day out they go to their jobs and fuck the dog all day. If they really think they're worth more they can go out and sell themselves based on performance.
For example if you work in fast food. minimum wage applies and they most likely have a wage scale based on years of experience you can only earn to a maximum of so much per hour.
If you were to apply with several years experience and believe you're better than everyone else why do you need to fall in line with a wage scale if you think you're worth more? Sell yourself and prove it to them. Chances are without a minimum wage and wage scale people would earn far more money and there would be less dog fuckers

[mermaidcancermoon]

The difference is in the inflation rate. It was easier to buy homes and cars in the 50s too.

Dont know the factors in the whole race employment thing so i won't touch that

[Spikey_uwu]

The cost of living nowadays is just so damn much. It isn't just about teens making money, but also adults. I don't see why people have to live paycheck to paycheck when we have rich oligarchs with incredible excess wealth. Why not minimize human suffering?

[KelleyNice]

The poor will always be with us. Although, it sounds good in the short run, when you use government's gun carrying thugs to rob from the productive to give to non-productive, you just breed more non-productive. In time, their numbers are so great that the productive can no longer feed them and it becomes much worse when 100 million die of starvation.

That is not the same as allowing the extremely wealthy to hijack government for their own enrichment to the detriment of the rest of us.

[Spikey_uwu]

I cannot afford to be productive because I'm too busy trying to make enough to survive. I would gladly devote my life to a project that would better humanity but I have to feed and house myself.

World population is about to enter a decline for the first time in like ever and we have so much excess food that we have to burn it. It's not a productive issue it's a allocation issue.

So what if a few people take advantage of the system and are just lazy their whole lives? Imagine the businesses and art made if people could focus on that and not have to worry about rent.

[KelleyNice]

Whatever the expected percentile decline in world population. it is insignificant compared the decline in human population after the Toba eruption 75,000 years ago when humans nearly vanished. And, it small compared to the decline in human population during the black plague from 1346 to 1353. Therefore, if it happens, it is certainly not the first. There is no need to even address your other false and misguided beliefs.

[Spikey_uwu]

Oh that's cool. I didn't know that. Don't see how that relates to today but still cool to know

[joeldalton]

Minimum wage is not designed for adults to support themselves or a family. That's not its purpose.

[Spikey_uwu]

Then livable wage. Hek UBI trials have shown incredible results in social mobility.

Let's not suffer so a few can live in excess luxury

[joeldalton]

"liveable wage" is just garbage talk. You want a good wage? Work hard and get a good job. For $3-$10k you can get a CDL license. You can get a job driving a truck for Walmart for 90k-100k a year.

[Spikey_uwu]

Dosent matter if you can find good work. All work should be paying enough so basic needs can be met. All work should be good work. It's optimistic and will never happen but we should at least strive for what we deserve and get as close as possible.

[KelleyNice]

Toba was awful for most all species; not just humans. Per Wikipedia, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals.

[Spikey_uwu]

Oh wow that's insane. So does this relate to climate change or something? Is toba gonna happen again?

[joeldalton]

@Spikey_uwu - yeah, so if you work hard and try to better yourself, you 'deserve' more money. If you want to be a lazy sack of shit, you deserve to be poor. And no, not all work is the same.

[KelleyNice]

Studies showed that Mount Toba has erupted four times in the past - 1.2 million years ago, at 840,000 years ago, 500,000 years ago and then again around 74,000 years ago. Toba will erupt again but not likely in the next 100,000 years. Yellowstone super volcano is a much more likely to erupt in our life time but, the odds of Yellowstone erupting in the 100 years is less than 1%. Even so, if Yellowstone does erupt and you are living in the western half of the USA, you chances of surviving are slime to none.

[Anonymous]

My country doesn’t have a minimum wage and the unemployment is about 8,5%. Compare that to the US, you do have a minimum wage but still a much lower unemployment rate of 3,6%. So. No minimum wage doesn’t automatically mean lower unemployment…

[KelleyNice]

Of course your so call 3.6% unemployment is misleading at best. In 2020, the real unemployment rate, including discouraged, marginally attached, and part-time, was 22.9%.7 This may give a better sense of how the labor force fared.

[N192K001]

The U. S. official unemployment-rate (U-4) is deceptive, since it no longer counts as unemployed job-seekers "discouraged workers" (those who failed to get an interview for 6months or more & those who've given-up on finding a job at all).
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE
The U-6 takes these into account.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
And according to U-6, it's actually 7.1%, which is close enough.

As for your jurisdiction's system of counting, there may be some other technicalities as well. What place is this, if I could ask?

[QuietRunner]

Yes, I'll work at a minimum wage job instead of going to college or technical school for advance training for better paying jobs.

If minimum wage is a $100 per hour, I'll gladly take your order at McDonalds.

[globetrotter22]

Funny the minimum hourly wage went up to $15 in my state but inflation had wiped out any real income gains from this.

[joeldalton]

I don't belive in minimum wage. People should be able to negotiate their salary with their employer freely.

[shortster]

Nope, I believe the minimum wage is a barrier to employment.

[RebeccaBITex2000]

With minimum wage increase, they usually tend to increase everything. With cost of living on the rise, it really is not an increase at all.

[Spikey_uwu]

Cost of living measures how expensive things are in proportion to wages. If wages rose with inflation things would mostly cost the same proportionally

[Jabberjaw]

It's a multi factor issue. Not a simple minimum wage to unemployment correlation.

[Anonymous]

If you have ever so much as Googled the basics on economics and accounting, you'd know why artificially raising the minimum wage (or even having a minimum wage at all) is a bad idea.

[MCheetah]

Falsa.

[IsoUser]

Minimum wage should be at least $15.00 dollars per hour anything less than that your getting Ripped off Period!

[LadiesFavoriteToy]

Laugh... There is a reason why minimum wage jobs are just that because they require little to no skill.

[Waldoe]

minimum wage does NOT increase unemployment... If a company needs more help, they will hire MORE help. They don't hire someone "Just because"... and if they could get away with it they would only pay $1 a day...

[KelleyNice]

No one would work for $1 a day nor for $1 an hour. Just as you don't set the pay for your plumber, employers don't set pay, employees do. Typically employees accept the highest pay they can get and good employees are a scarce resource so employers must match what other employers pay.

[KelleyNice]

Just another misinformed person that believe people must accept the salaries they are offered except, when they are hiring, their brain kicks in and they know better because they know a doctor, lawyer, or plumber will not provide service if they say, "I'm only paying you minimum wage."

[jimmy2]

Minimum wage is $ 7.25 in America and you can't live on that

[MCheetah]

The point is, you're not supposed to live off of minimum wage, hence why teenagers and the skill-less work these jobs. You're supposed to go to college and get skills, or at least take up a trade like carpentry or plumbing. The problem is, corporations are greedy and people are lazy, so we have people in their 30s and 40s working fast food and then whining about it, while they could be earning six figures being a construction worker or pipe-layer but "don't feel like it."

I myself don't make a lot of money, but as a teacher, I basically work only four hours a day, so I'm REAL good with that! Freedom over money. Most people want freedom and to be rich, while offering no job skills to deserve that.

[Preeti161101]

Minimum wages depends on the inflation rate