Do you support Joe Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan? (Page 2)

[grega239]

Great idea. I agree that random people should pay for other peoples stupid decisions

[Anonymous]

It's not fair to those people that have student loans they can't do anything about it. They're going to call student loan forgiveness do it with all people. That have student loans.

[Pterodon]

I don’t support anything that incompetent mother fucker does

[LadiesFavoriteToy]

buying votes from poor stupid people making dumb choices.

[joeldalton]

You mean the bank interest payments that will cost a trillion dollars and is currently unfunded?

[goaded]

Of course not. Private student loans don't qualify for the current interest-free forbearance. They also aren't being considered for student loan forgiveness. It's the same kind of thing that multiple Republican legislators benefitted from, except they got hundreds of thousands, not just ten, when their loans were forgiven.

[joeldalton]

@goaded wait, when were Republican studen loans forgiven?

[goaded]

The same time as everyone else's, because Biden's not a dickhead who would discriminate like that. The PPP loans that were forgiven:

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Florida) with a $476,000 loan

Rep. Greg Pence (R-Indiana) for $79,441

Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-Florida) for $2.8 million

Rep. Kevin Hern (R-Oklahoma) for $1.07 million

Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas) for $1.43 million

Rep. Brett Guthrie (R-Kentucky) for $4.3 million

Rep. Ralph Norman (R-South Carolina) for $306,520

Rep. Mike Kelly (R-Pennsylvania) for $974,100

Rep. Vicki Hartzler (R-Missouri) for $451,200

Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Oklahoma) for $988,700

Rep. Carol Miller (R-West Virginia) for $3.1 million

[joeldalton]

@goaded

1) Government forced businesses to close. No one forces you to take out a student loan
2) You fully supported both lockdowns and PPP loans.
3) PPP loans were specifically designed so that if a company did not lay off staff that they would not have to be repaid. Everyone knew this going into them. Student Loans never had that stipulation. A person who takes out a student loan signs the contract with the understanding that the debt has to be repaid. None of this was done under duress or coercion
4) Joe Biden voted for a bill which made it harder for debtors to get out of their loans should they have to go into bankruptcy.
5) Republicans didn't vote against this proposal, because they didn't get a vote at all (see: undermining our republic) because Biden now thinks he gets to rule via executive fiat.

So, yet again, you dope leftists think you have 'gotcha' points but you're too dumb to understand that just because the word "loan" is used twice doesn't mean it's the same thing

[goaded]

Not bad! You're actually arguing based on facts. Is that a first for you? Getting back to your original claim, are federal student loans anything to do with banks? Also, do you know what the word "trillion" means?

[joeldalton]

@goaded So once again, you take an L. Yeah, you'll still accrue interest if 10k doesn't pay off your balance. Oh, and colleges will magically go up 10k.

[goaded]

So, clearly banks have nothing to do with federal student loans, so your original comment was bullshit. Therefore are no "bank interest payments", and your "a trillion dollars" claim was also bullshit.

"Yeah, you'll still accrue interest if 10k doesn't pay off your balance."
That has nothing to do with anything either of us has said.

"Oh, and colleges will magically go up 10k."
No, because it's a one-off deal. It's a shame you don't have a functioning market among universities, otherwise competition would drive prices down, right?

I don't know if you can call it a loss, but I am capable of accepting facts.

Like "At least 60% of the proceeds are spent on payroll costs." (a requirement for PPP loan forgiveness). Are you sure all of those lawmakers spent the remaining 40% on other business related things like rent and didn't just pocket the difference?

[joeldalton]

@goaded I don't know what they did. But since you're ok with sending 40 billion to ukraine without oversight, you don't get to suddenly pretend you give a shit about being responsible with tax dollars.

And yes, the money will go to pay the interest that banks charge.

Colleges wouldn't be as expensive if the government didn't guarantee the loans.

[goaded]

So you're going to ignore that your claims were bullshit and talk about something else, now? OK.

How will "the money will go to pay the interest that banks charge" when the loans are from the government, who are the ones charging the interest? The loan is now less than it was, so the interest is, too. People have to pay less every month. That's the idea!

"Colleges wouldn't be as expensive if the government didn't guarantee the loans."
I don't actually disagree with that, but the alternative is that only wealthy families would be able to send the kids to higher education. You'd lose out on a large percentage of smart people.

[Avicenna]

@goaded: You get a 6 (F) for all that non-sequitir nonsense. PPP loans aren't student loans, they were designed to be forgiven if no one was fired, and they weren't "Republican" loans, and, furthermore, they passed the House with 419 votes, for example. But of course, some Democrats or their spouses benefited from them as well

Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Rep. Matt Cartwright
Rep. Susie Lee
Speaker Nancy Pelosi
Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell

And of course, US colleges and universities couldn't charge such high tuition if it weren't for student loans inflating them- they'd have to adjust their prices downward.

[joeldalton]

@goaded So you think that colleges would just sit empty? Since you brought up the free market, they'd certainly come up with creative ways to allow people to go. They'd cut costs. There's $691 billion in endowments they're just sitting on because they can. They'd delay building the 6th resort-style swimming pool on campus.

And no one has to go to college if they're that smart. I think Bill gates didn't go. Same with Bezos.

[goaded]

Gates did go, then dropped out. The point is that people from poor families wouldn't be able to afford any university without loans. They would never be affordable to people who were on minimum wage. You'd just have universities filled with stupid children of rich families, and that's bad for the country.

@Avicenna Yes, I already acceded to the fact that PPP loans were designed to be forgiven in certain circumstances. I still find it unlikely that the recipients of the forgiveness didn't manage to find some way to profit from it. At least a couple of thousand out of the hundreds of thousands they were given. Yes, even the Democrats, although your list is a lot shorter than mine of Republicans, and they're not the ones saying every loan should be repaid.

[joeldalton]

@goaded If the person is that smart, they can get scholarships. There are pell grants. My kid's principal's daughter went to college for $600 a semester. Community colleges are often very low-cost alternatives. Many professions will have their loans forgiven (healthcare/education) if they work in a critical need area. This fantasy you leftists have that the only way to go to college is to rack up $100k on a gender studies degrees is just ludicrous.

Furthermore, get off this idea that college is the only path to success. Many trades pay well more than your average entry-level job for a communications major. Wal Mart's hiring truck drivers for $90k a year.

[goaded]

Pell grants don't cover it, otherwise they wouldn't need loan forgiveness, would they?

"My kid's principal's daughter went to college for $600 a semester."
That's nice, and also more than a lot of people can afford.

[joeldalton]

@goaded The point is pell grants bring down the cost of college. Please try to keep up. I know it's hard for you.

If you can't afford to pay off $5k after you graduate from college, there was no point to you going to college.

[goaded]

Wait, "Pell grants bring down the cost of college" but other loans raise it? Don't be daft.

[Avicenna]

@goaded; That list may not be exhaustive, and the respective lengths are largely irrelevant. But as usual, you miss the forest for the trees by seeing everything through a partisan lens. Members of Congress benefit tremendously from their positions, but that legislation was about saving jobs- would it have been fair to the employees who would have lost their jobs just because they worked for a business owned by a member of Congress? Of course not. And the real issue was that the lockdowns were a bad decision that caused a lot of economic damage.

And I don't see you complaining about the many ways Congresspeople and their friends and relatives make money off of their positions. The only reason the PPP legislation caught your eye is that it was a White House talking point.

[goaded]

@Avicenna I'm pretty sure it is exhaustive, they've had enough time to come up with it. The lockdowns were anything but a bad decision, they saved thousands of lives. So did masks and vaccines, in places they were encouraged.

14,000 Floridians died unnecessarily of covid for political reasons in the last year, alone.

[goaded]

@Avicenna You might see me complaining more about the Democrats, if Republicans weren't doing things that are an order of magnitude worse. Stick to facts and we can have a conversation. Deny them, and it's pointless.

[Avicenna]

@goaded: Not locking down wouldn’t have made a difference if Sweden is any indication. And you’re also the person who falsely screamed months ago that „millions would die“ if vaccines were not mandated for everyone.

Since you’re a partisan hack, no one believes your claims, especially about masks.

[Avicenna]

@goaded: Your selective interpretation of some data is pure partisan hackery. No one can claim with a straight face that Democrats are any better then Republicans when it comes to avoiding corruption, as the Biden and Pelosi crime families show.

[goaded]

@Avicenna As it happens, just a couple of days ago I had the opportunity to look up how things were in Sweden. They had three times as many excess deaths as Germany, and far higher than their neighbours Denmark, Norway, and Finland. (Vaccines have been credited with saving over 2 million lives in the US alone.)

[Avicenna]

@goaded: That's not what was reported earlier. And "excess deaths" include people who died "indirectly" of COVID.

I should have specified earlier that the discussion about a vaccine mandate was with regards to the US only.

[joeldalton]

@goaded government guaranteed loans absolutely raise costs. Because there’s no risk to banks to give them out, which means a steady supply of students giving whatever universities want to charge.

[goaded]

@Avicenna Things change, and excess deaths are still deaths. What "discussion about a vaccine mandate"?

[joeldalton]

@Avicenna Watch how the 10% “excess deaths” still going on in Europe and the US are ignored.

[goaded]

What banks? The loans are from the government, as far as I can see.

[joeldalton]

@goaded even worse. Funny how the two industries, education and healthcare, are the ones with the most government involvement and are the most expensive.

[Avicenna]

@goaded: And that doesn't even begin to consider the huge toll the lockdowns took on people's mental and physical health, especially children.

[joeldalton]

@Avicenna he doesn’t care. Lord Fauci told him to lock down and he follows The Science™️

[Avicenna]

Exactly. The totalitarians couldn't do what they do without their useful idiots.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@goaded he just repeats what he hears. thats why he doesn't understand what he's saying. and when you challenge him he says some cringe ass shit cause he can't articulate what he's trying to get across.

[joeldalton]

@ChefPapiChulo You’re too stupid to go to college, I won’t have to worry about paying for you.

[Avicenna]

He‘s the biggest CCP cheerleader. It doesn’t get dumber than that.

[joeldalton]

@Avicenna The irony is him telling me I repeat things I’m told when goaded literally copy/pasted leftist social media talking points.

[Avicenna]

You're quite right, that's all he does.

[goaded]

Are you both having fun telling your little lies about me?

"the 10% “excess deaths” still going on in Europe and the US are ignored. "
That's stupid, even for you. There's still a pandemic going on. 500 people a week are dying in Florida (three times as many as in New York). (Show me a source for those numbers. I know now you can use facts if you have them and they're on your side.)

Education and health care are shouldn't be industries at all, and they're huge because literally everybody needs them. They're expensive because they've bribed all of the Republicans and most of the Democrats, and that's legal because Republicans on the Supreme Court made it so.

[joeldalton]

@goaded lmao, are you claiming you came up with "thE RePublICAnS gOt LoAn FOrgiVEnESs" all on your own?

[Avicenna]

Goaded, you lie and distort all the time. It’s up to you to prove you aren’t lying or being deceptive because you have been caught doing it so many times you even forget what nonsense you’ve said.

As if some European Marxist comes up with his own thoughts about what goes on in the US. Those of us who have years of experience with European leftist media know exactly where they get the garbage they publish about politics in the US- the NY Slimes, the Washington Compost and the Communist News Network, the same outlets used by US government to leak propaganda from “anonymous sources”. So you’re just regurgitating propaganda from the Biden Administration propagandists.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@goaded this guy is literally an idiot. You can’t discuss anything with him.

[joeldalton]

@ChefPapiChulo you're so desperate to get in the conversation with adults... Why don't you go rub your mom's bunions and thank her for letting you live in her basement in your 30s.

[goaded]

No. But you're claiming, on the basis of a single example, that I do it all the time.

[joeldalton]

@goaded oh, like when you claimed that grandma wanted to shoot her grandchildren? That was an original take as well?

[Avicenna]

Goaded, I have decades of experience of interacting with European Marxists just like you. And you support a really totalitarian regime in the Biden Administration.

[goaded]

"Goaded, you lie and distort all the time."
Really? It should be easy to come up with some examples, then.

Am I lying or distorting when I say twice as many people are dying of covid in Florida as New York? (And before you say it, no Florida does not have anything like twice as many residents over 65.)

How about when I say that Republicans who are oh-so upset that Biden called some of them fascists have been calling Democrats names for decades? (You know, like your "clever" names for news outlets.)

[goaded]

"oh, like when you claimed that grandma wanted to shoot her grandchildren? That was an original take as well?"
OK, that's two, in six years. It's still what she literally said, gramatically, and I clarified that she didn't mean it almost immediately.

“I have five grandchildren. I would do anything, anything, to protect my five grandchildren, including, as a last resort, shooting them, if I had to, to protect the lives of my grandchildren.” Would you shoot your own (grand) children to protect gun rights? ↗

Where did your take that "You mean the bank interest payments that will cost a trillion dollars and is currently unfunded?" come from? Did you make up those numbers for yourself, or did somebody else do it for you?

[goaded]

@ChefPapiChulo I know, but it's fun.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@goaded im just warning you. this guy talks in circles and when his points that are parroted over and over are debunked he begins to insult and derail.

[goaded]

@ChefPapiChulo Been there, done that. You can tell how badly his argument is going by the amount of swearing he does.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@goaded half the time i think he's a bot. dude just repeats the same shit like a bot would.

[goaded]

" The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP), which provided relief to small businesses during the COVID-19 crisis, was implemented quickly and wound up most of its operations within two years.
But, as a new study by economist David Autor and others showed, the PPP was not well targeted. Only about one-quarter of PPP funds supported jobs that otherwise would have disappeared.
In addition, the study found that the PPP’s benefits flowed disproportionately to wealthier households rather than to the rank-and-file workers that its funds were intended to reach."

www.stlouisfed.org/.../was-paycheck-protection-program-effective

[joeldalton]

@goaded oh, now you're anti PPP. What's next, you are going to tell us that Trump kept the schools closed? The gaslighting has no limits.

[goaded]

Misunderstanding again? No, the idea of PPP was good, the necessarily rushed implementation had loopholes exploited by a lot of people.

Where did your take that "You mean the bank interest payments that will cost a trillion dollars and is currently unfunded?" come from? Did you make up those numbers for yourself, or did somebody else do it for you?

[ChefPapiChulo]

@goaded he knows he's an idiot. he doesn't care.

[joeldalton]

@ChefPapiChulo don’t you have to get to your Applebees shift? You must have a lot of dishes to wash with all you can eat boneless wing specials. At least you can bring some leftovers home to mom.

[joeldalton]

@goaded the hill good enough for you?
thehill.com/.../

And yes, unfunded. Where is the money coming from?

[goaded]

Look at you using sources and reasoned argument! I'm proud of you!

That article is based on one Wharton study, but they had another study that says almost the opposite.

Neither says the price will be a trillion based on the released details, just if certain other assumptions are true, including that the government forgives future loans as well, and there's no evidence that will be the case. In fact, if that were the case, I'm sure universities would up their prices to take their "share" of the cash, so I doubt Biden will do it.

budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/.../biden-student-loan-forgiveness
"Summary: President Biden’s new student loan forgiveness plan includes three major components. We estimate that debt cancellation alone will cost up to $519 billion, with about 75% of the benefit accruing to households making $88,000 or less. Loan forbearance will cost another $16 billion. The new income-driven repayment (IDR) program would cost another $70 billion, increasing the total plan cost to $605 billion under strict “static” assumptions. However, depending on future IDR program details to be released and potential behavioral (i. e., “non-static”) changes, total plan costs could exceed $1 trillion."

budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/.../forgiving-student-loans
"Summary: We estimate that forgiving federal college student loan debt will cost between $300 billion and $980 billion over the 10-year budget window, depending on program details. About 70 percent of debt relief accrues to borrowers in the top 60 percent of the income distribution."

[joeldalton]

@goaded so yes a trillion. Another L for you.

[goaded]

If you borrowed a trillion dollars tomorrow, you'd be a trillion dollars in debt. Will you be a trillion dollars in debt tomorrow?

[joeldalton]

@goaded is it going to cost a trillion? Yea. Is it unfunded? Also yes. End of story.

[goaded]

No. Maybe. Nice job of ignoring the question as usual. I'd started to expect better of you.

[joeldalton]

@goaded See, I’m not indulging your game. I said what I said and it’s backed up with facts. Your lame attempt to make some convoluted question that you think contradicts what I typed is just boring at this point.

[ChefPapiChulo]

you backed him into a corner xD

[Avicenna]

It’s the Marxist way. Everything they say is a lie it a distortion.

Goaded claims to live in Germany, by the way. Their COVID relief focus was more targeted toward saving jobs than the US, and you never see him complaining about that. You’d think if PPP-type spending actually bothered him he’d be yelping about that.

[goaded]

@joeldalton You mean you're not answering simple questions.

Neither Wharton study says the price will be a trillion based on the released details, just if certain other assumptions are true, including that the government forgives future loans as well, and there's no evidence that will be the case. I asked you: "If you borrowed a trillion dollars tomorrow, you'd be a trillion dollars in debt. Will you be a trillion dollars in debt tomorrow?" The answer is simply no, because you won't borrow a trillion dollars.

@Avicenna I already said: "No, the idea of PPP was good, the necessarily rushed implementation had loopholes exploited by a lot of people." Germany also had masking, testing (for a long time free, you can get a test for a couple of euros in the shops), lockdowns (in 2020) and, to date 1,750 deaths per million, compared to the US's 3,200+. (Utah, Hawaii, and Vermont are the only states to have done better.)

[joeldalton]

@goaded I told you I’m not playing your numbers game so you can pretend you squeaked out a win. Tell me how this scheme is going to be paid for.

[goaded]

I'll look into it when you've admitted you were exaggerating the cost. To three times the actual projected cost. And that you were wrong about banks having anything to do with it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

This makes me question if Biden actually knows how economy works

[RandomGuy1030]

Yes of course pay universities for failing to educate students in anything useable

[MrCommodore]

No, debts should be paid.

[Emilyis]

Oh my heaven's He's a total IDIOT!

[Anonymous]

I believe there are better ways of solving this crisis without chump charity.

[ShadezMcgee]

No. Absolutely not.

[BeMuse]

He's one crazy foreign dignitary...

[BeMuse]

I know the United States has the responsibility under international law to protect visiting foreign dignitaries and resident foreign diplomats in this country, but Resident Biden is a real pain in the butt. We need to send this one home...

[Anonymous]

no i absolutely do not!!!

[Opinion Owner]

I don't know why gag decided to put my 1 exclamation point as 3...

[Philyouup]

not only YES. but FUCK YES.

[ZenJen444]

What @Hispanic-Cool-Guy said!!

[OddBeMe]

Yes its keynsian economics 101.

[OddBeMe]

And i dont even qualify.

[Fuentes]

Is he actually doing it?

[Sabretooth]

no sensible reason not to.

[MiseriaCantareAFI]

yeah