If God doesn't exist, how is anything wrong, provided I don't get caught doing it?

[Kryzo]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot. Since the world is clearly becoming more non religious, why should anyone follow manmade rules on murder and rape and such provided you can get away with it? Isn't it survival of the fittest? Free to take whatever.

[Xylem1992]

Well you wouldn't do that because:

A: Those actions are illegal. Survival of the fittest is a primary rule of nature. But we are way past being a primary species. Throughout our millions and millions of existance on the planet, we have realized that, things are better if have some rules in place. They might keep us from what we want sometimes but actually rules help us everyday (Just imagine that all driving laws are to be suspended tomorrow).

B: Those actions arw immoral. Assuming God doesn't exist, morality still can. To me morality is like a certain set of unwritten rules. For example, dumping a bucket of ice on a kid in a wheelchair doesn't violate any law, that I know of, but it's still is something you shouldn't want to do because, again, we as a species need these rules, albeit unwritten and unofficial, to function normally.

So if you, say killed someone, and you got away with it, you still would be someone who has done something illegal and immoral. That makes you a bad apple in the humanity fruit basket, not the "fit member who survived".

[Kryzo]

These rules would have no basis or authority though. Hence there is no reason to follow them, as long as I can get away with it legally. Who cares if I done something illegal as long as I got away with it and benefitted from it? There is no morality without God at its core. And if God doesn't exist, there is no morality. It is just man made garbage. No Good or Bad either.

[Xylem1992]

I'm walking away from this conversation as I can see you didn't read/understand my reply.
Kill away my friend. Kill away

[Kryzo]

I don't plan to. But yeah, it's okay. Your response just wasn't strong enough.

[Soteris]

There are generally two schools of thought about this. First is the whole "survival of the fittest" where the government has a monopoly on violence AKA they decide the rules or they will kill you. The other is a system of morality independent from religion where philosophers and scientists alike has constructed tons of various systems of morality which has nothing to do with religion or a god. Its also something that is built into us from evolution since "survival of the fittest" includes social skills and the ability to work in larger groups which comes with following social rules.

[Kryzo]

Not really. The Bear and the Tiger are far from social, yet they are animals on top of their food chain. Government only has a monopoly as long as they don't catch you/ you can't get away with it (which you can with careful planning and leverage). Who cares what philosophers and scientists have to say? They're all biased anyway. None of these points are strong.

[Soteris]

Well, you are wrong. There is a social structure within both bear and tiger culture although its increasingly a much rarer thing for large predators since food sources becomes scarce which increases competition too much to support a large community. It is also generally why they are often wiped out first rather than animals relying on social groups which is far more successful.

As for trying to stay away from the eye of the government? At that point you are already following their rules enough to the point where they no longer care what you do.

Lastly, who cares about what the philosophers and scientists say? You should. They are correct and have already had this conversation hundreds of years ago and already came to various conclusions. You are wasting your time here doing what they have already done but much better.

[Kryzo]

There are territories, that's all. Then again, humans are quite different from other animals. They do not breed as much, that's the main reason why they're wiped out. The government clearly cares what you do, because the rules necessary to live in a society are becoming rather stringent. They will obviously have some control over you, but it depends on the power you gather in your lifetime too. Philosophers keep arguing over who is correct for thousands of years. They will continue to do so. One party will come to a certain conclusion, where the other comes to an entirely different one. Doesn't really seem like "truth" to me. I have one life. What's wrong with me using my life and exploiting the world as much as I can for my pleasure and benefit? I do not care for society or for the future but my own life.

[Soteris]

Putting aside how I factually disagree with everything you just said in favor of just getting down to business. You think your greatest personal benefit would come from exploiting as much as you can from the world. I think that is retarded. Even if all you cared about is your own life and pleasure, that is now how you achieve the greatest result.

Even if you get super lucky and become the next Putin or whatever, there are still very real costs to living your life by exploiting others. For example, Putin appears to be quite the miserable little man even though he surrounds himself in wealth, luxury and power he is walking a knives edge with his life on the line every day. I wonder how many paranoid nights he spent in his personal bunker fearing that someone is out to kill him or how many body doubles he has.

But even if we take him as the penultimate accomplishment of your life philosophy, there are plenty of other people around the world who I would argue have an objectively better life than Putin. Exploiting people and society simply does not provide you the best results at the end of the day. It is far better to have a mutually beneficial arrangement that continuously multiplies everyones benefits over time.

That way you will both have powerful allies to help you achieve your personal goals and benefits while at the same time growing exponentially yourself.

[Kryzo]

There are also costs to being the "nice guy". You'll be more likely to get ahead by being cutthroat, and whoever you are, whether you get on top by being nice or by being cutthroat, there will be people after your life. Putin isn't dead yet. Whoever you mention as your penultimate, I could also provide people who went their own way to achieve greater things in life. Those who get ahead, are those who pull the rug from below others. That is what happens in politics. You think the Presidents of the U. S. haven't done that? I assure you, 99.9% of guys at the top have.

[Soteris]

Its not like you have to be "the nice guy" even though I can't think of any drawbacks to it. Being nice is free and easy while giving you free brownie points. What I am saying however is that you should cooperate and be productive which are both activities that increase your own value.

As for Putin not being dead yet? True, but that is not the major problem I think he faces in his life. Just facing the very real threat to himself as a result of his own actions and choices are negatively impacting his own life and enjoyment so that even when he is living his life of absolute power and luxury it is still tainted by fear, stress and uncertainty.

I had a good laugh reading studies about how some of the most powerful and successful people in the world lived lives that were pure hell because of their own selfish and self destructive decisions. Living a life focusing on cooperation and productivity would not prevent any of these successful people from getting to where they are today and it would neatly dodge most of the problems that most rich and powerful men today face.

Besides, the reason why most rich and powerful people today are in their current situation has very little to do with their own actions and accomplishments and more to do with them just being born with a silver spoon in their mouth like Elon Musk or Donald Trump. They are complete failures who are simply not allowed to fail by the system of society we live in and not something you can easily replicate by your own efforts.

[Anonymous]

There is inherent good and evil in the world.

[Kryzo]

Who says? Can you prove that without God?

[bean2k21]

Survival of the fittest refers to the principle of continued existence of organisms by adapting to their environment. Doing what is right means to act in accordance with a principle. Therefore, one could argue that killing your own species would not be accordance with survival of the fittest. If you believe that all actions must be in accordance with some principle, then if God doesn't exist, some other principle must then guide your actions. Newtonian physics teaches that every action has an equal reaction. When you push a cart, it pushes back, you cannot touch without being touched. Therefore, it seems only logical that by living a good and moral life, that you will be rewarded by the universal reaction to your actions.

[Kryzo]

That's in a scientific sense. I'd argue many people have lived lives on Earth that are "evil" without much repercussions for their actions. If I can show just one, this argument fails. Fittest could also be translated to smartest. Universe rewards nothing because Universe does not keep track of your actions.

[bean2k21]

Evil in what sense? Repercussions in what sense? And how many lives has that person lived? This is subject to your interpretation and is not emperical. I'm speaking empirically, and no I'm not saying there's some Universal memory bank that stores all your good deeds and delves out rewards. That's idiotic. I'm saying scientific truth - that if you act upon someone or something with a particular force, the reaction is equal and opposite. It is only through experimentation that you will see that the affects of loving and kind gestures act in accordance to the same laws that govern any other type of force acting upon a physical body.

[Kryzo]

Not all kindness will be repaid by the "universe". Not all evil deeds will have "repercussions" my the universe. This logic doesn't add up.

[bean2k21]

It makes perfect sense. Jesus never said 'Follow me like blind sheep." He said "You reap what you sew." If you don't believe him, then go murder 30 people and see what happens.

[Kryzo]

I wasn't make this about Jesus or religion though. I specifically stated if God doesn't exist.

[bean2k21]

So, you're saying that one can only discuss the philosophies of Jesus in the context of religion? That's a bit narrow-minded.

[Kryzo]

Yes because Jesus is a religious figure. If he wasn't God or a Prophet ( as the Muslims believe), his words have little value. Regardless of whether they are effective or not.

[bean2k21]

You really are an idiot aren't you? Jesus wasn't an idiot walking around saying 'Well God exists so you should do the right thing." He is portrayed as a thinking man who uses parable, logic, lessons from the natural world as would any philosopher. You have no proof that the God you think of as a man in the sky is the same God to which he was referring, and frankly you completely lack the substance to comprehend what he even talking about.

[Kryzo]

Here we go with the insults again... have a nice day.

[bean2k21]

Well, if you don't want to be perceived as an idiot then don't say that "Jesus words have no value if he wasn't God or a Prophet." Maybe you'd rather disagree with the Buddha then, who said "“Neither fire, nor wind, birth, nor death, can erase our good deeds.” Do you think the Buddha was talking about a big man in the sky who keeps a record of your wrong/right doings like Santa Claus? No, he was referring to the principle of causality, the same thing Jesus was, which has great value no matter what your religion.

[Kryzo]

Except it can erase it. If they're not divine, they have no authority. They can blabber all they like. In the end they have no value.

[Hypermotard1916]

Think you are understanding the limitations of human intellect, it is built on logic based on "fundamentals". Now these "fundamentals" can be religious doctrine, cultural values, philosophical truths, mythology, etc... Trying to prove the truth with itself is not possible, you can find evidence but counter arguments and explanations exist as well, so at some point you will have no choice but to believe the "fundamentals" and there is nothing wrong with it.

Our will to explore has diminished over decades and we are cannibalising ourselves through using logic critically, to break the "fundamentals". Hence you are in that line of thought.

[Kryzo]

What's wrong with breaking down fundamentals? Even those are things we made up. If I want say, to do it with a girl I like, what's stopping me? Even if she resists and I can get away with it. Or if I want to steal.

[Hypermotard1916]

go ahead break it, break your civilisation, actually i don't care and am no longer part of it, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

[Kryzo]

Yup.

[Anonymous]

What a bizarre and juvenile line of thought. That, “If there is no God then all notions of good and evil have no validity.”

You stupidly and very naively believe that what is good comes from doctrine in a book. You don’t have to believe in God or even have the concept of God to know that murder and theft are wrong.

I especially like how you watch videos instead of reading books. It shows. Abundantly. You’re not a very deep thinker and have an exceptionally shallow understanding of the world. But you’re 20. Most people your age are complete idiots. So I guess it’s forgivable.

[Kryzo]

If you can defend your line of thought instead of insulting me maybe we'll get somewhere. There is nothing wrong with video-based education. Much of modern educational content is based on videos. Ultimately, it is all information, reading or watching won't make much difference. I didn't assert anything or any book. Nor did I assert a diety. You made a claim. "You don't have to believe in God to know murder and theft are wrong". Prove that statement. Also, I'd like you to define what you mean by wrong. Usually, I'm willing to learn, but in this case, I'm going to fold whatever intellectual superiority you think you have over me in half. Give it a try.

[Ill_made_Knight]

There are things like character and humanity. You know it's wrong to run outside and slit someones throat... Don't do it. If you do and are seen there will likely be consequences pretty quickly anyway.
If people need some Imaginary thing that loves you, but will burn you eternally if you do bad things, and wants your money to keep them from doing obviously wrong things?
I'd just say that doesn't speak very well of the average human.

[Kryzo]

Yeah, but average humans aren't that good to begin with. You'd be surprised at the amount of "evil" an average person is capable of. What is "humanity"? What is "wrong"? If God doesn't exist, nothing is wrong. What gets me ahead and brings me pleasure is what's right. Survival of the fittest. As long as I get away with it legally. So your argument really isn't convincing. Do you have anything stronger?

[Ill_made_Knight]

I would argue that the average criminal never even has religion in the equation to begin with. They will be more concerned with what society will do (loss of freedom, privileges, your own life)
The way that others will treat them even aside from the law. Being ostracized from certain groups, shunned, banished etc can be very harsh. Remember... you only removed RELIGION as a deterrant, NOT civil repercussions.

[Kryzo]

Yup. That's only if they get caught. That's why I mentioned, as long as I do not get caught, I can do anything I wish to, or move to a country that permits it. Like some Islamic countries which will allow you to get away with pedophilia, incest or even beastiality, woman beating and even marital rape.

[Ill_made_Knight]

If they are wired like that Religion is almost certainly not going to stop them either, and to be fair depending on which individual priest, pastor, whatever.. may shade the degrees of wrongness of certain things... I just don't see religion as a deterrant personally. If anything some think they can go and confess after doing the most horrific thing and thenbe "clean" again. But yeah, it's largely true that the one that doesn't get caught will suffer no consequences.

[Kryzo]

I think religion would be a rather strong deterrant. If they had true faith, that is. Confession isn't a get away from jail free card. No one teaches it to be so. That's just strawmanning religion. Right so I guess it is yes, after all. So the most logical life for me as an Athiest is indeed, to plunder as I see fit. Thanks.

[Ill_made_Knight]

Atheist or no, if you choose to risk the consequences of plundering your way through life then that's on you... do a little research on pirates and see how that usually goes. To me all it really means is that the person has made the the choice to be an inhuman monster. The odds are that said person WILL be caught eventually.

[Kryzo]

We are animals anyway according to Athiesm. We are civilised monsters. There are much better ways to get around doing "evil" now without getting caught legally. The more wealth and power you accumulate, the better.

[Guy13]

Emmanuel Kant in Practical Reason can give you a succinct philosophical answer to your question.

Layman version is: we all have free choice, We all know right/wrong when before us, and it is to perfectly designed to be an accident, therefore, there is an Intelligent Designer. And obviously 🙄, the one who Designed also has the Right to Judge.
The elements that make-up the image bearers, morality, and obvious flow demands a Creator, God, therefore, God Is.

[Kryzo]

I would disagree with this. Jihadi kids for example, who have been raised that way, kill without a thought and tribals too. They have no engrained moral system. Nor do psychopaths. These are mainly socially engineered or taught. Besides all this, this argument will still only work IF God existed. My point was negating his existence, if he didn't exist, would anything be wrong?

[Guy13]

You do not understand the depth. You should read it. What you did was Prove God does exist…as did Kant. Kant was also an unbeliever at one point until common sense and experimental knowing prevailed.
Your pathway to God Proof is not exceptional. Most do not believe but you actually do believe and acknowledged God. One does not acknowledge what is not as there would be no reason to claim that God Is not. By your admission God must be and Kant had the same revelation. Perhaps, it will be clearer to you at a later date.

[Kryzo]

So if I say Unicorns don't exist, it means I acknowledge Unicorns exist? I wasn't arguing for or against God here. My question was, if God didn't exist.. full stop, nothing is wrong, right? it is a yes or no question.

[Guy13]

Let me put it in a secular way that you can understand. It’s just like Dawkins did in one of his last debates…It was in Daily Beast and picked up by the Huff etc. Dawkins stumbled on an answer and said, “Oh my God” and didn’t realize what he had done immediately. The Beast front page was God 1 and Atheist 0.

Never mind the Scientific and the Intelligent Design with Free Will that you could not grasp. You are quick to speak but slow on consideration and in Knowledge.
Try reading the Bible, Philosophy, Mathematicians, Physicist, etc before pontificating. Truthfully, my 7th graders get this 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Kryzo]

Just because an Athiest said "Oh my God", doesn't mean God exists like like saying "F you" doesn't mean I actually want to do that with you. I grasp it all. You still do not understand my question. I don't need to read a million books to know BS when I hear it.

[Guy13]

Ignorant…stop showing your Ignorance ‼️

[YourFavoriteFriend]

Well, to put it simple, it isn't! Thinking that nothing is proven, there is no reason for you to follow any "rules" and any "messiah". However, we still choose to do the "right" thing because of two reasons:

1. The law. There are certain things that are forbidden and if you do them, you'll have a penalty.

2. Others are creatures as well and just like us, they want to be happy and live their best life so I don't want to grow up by stepping on them!

[Kryzo]

1. I don't care about the law. I know ways around it with very small chances to get caught.
2. I don't care about others. Only about myself, my pleasure and my success. They'll die soon and cease to exist anyway. So it doesn't matter.

[YourFavoriteFriend]

Ok then, you do you! Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Many of our laws do not just follow a religious doctrine but are common sense laws.
Do you need a Bible to tell you that murder is against the aims of society as a whole?
Do you really need to get caught to prove that what you're doing is morally wrong and you're a bad person?

[Kryzo]

Even if I "get caught", it doesn't really prove I was "wrong". What was wrong was me getting caught. Common Sense? Taking what I want to succeed through any means necessary should be common sense. "Bad person"? According to who? One man's revolutionary is another man's terrorist. Do you have any stronger points/further clarification to offer?

[Opinion Owner]

Understood.
You are talking about win-lose. You want to win and anything to do so is fine provided there is no convincing reason to think otherwise. Some people are very successful employing these tactics so more power to you.
It doesn't make for a prosperous and well functioning society, and it does not demonstrate the best of what humans can together achieve. For that we need win-win. This may not be of interest to you and your aims, but I have family in tow, as have many others, and we generally cannot afford to be so single minded.

[Kryzo]

And not just me. Many more are waking up to this logic. Under Athiestic worldviews, anything goes. What "family" and "society?". Why would I care about people who will die anyway? Or a society that wouldn't remember me past a few generations at best. No Athiest, has so far given me a strong answer to this. They can't. Because it will expose their own hypocrisy. In the end, they just get angry and swear at me before leaving.

[FunkyMonkee]

We have these things in this country, and others, called, "Laws" and, if you break any of them and get caught by the police, you get punished for it. God has nothing to do with any of it because god doesn't exist!

[Kryzo]

Yeah. But why should I follow them? With enough money and brains, I'm sure I can evade most laws. So there's nothing wrong with me killing you if I can get away with it. Right?

[FunkyMonkee]

And, there's nothing to keep me from stealing all your money and injecting a bullet into your brains, either, is there?

[Kryzo]

According to this worldview, true Athiesm, there isn't.

[FunkyMonkee]

It has nothing to do with any religious beliefs! Thousands of religious people commit crimes every day!! My ex-sister is one!!

[Kryzo]

Do they do it because their religion prescribes them to? No. They are religious Athiests.

[FunkyMonkee]

Right! Atihiests that live & breathe the bible!

[Kryzo]

Yes. You can pretend to believe something and if you act against its basic principles... that proves you're being hypocritical. I can say I'm vegan all I want and have vegetables stacked up in my house, show you cutting them up and cooking with them. But if I eat meat on my plate, I'm not a vegan but an omnivore.

[Anonymous]

Are you a good person if the only thing stopping you from murder is authority?

I wouldn’t think so. I am of the belief that I shouldn’t harm others because other people are of equivalent moral value to myself, I certainly wouldn’t want to be harmed.

[Kryzo]

And what is the basis for that moral standard? Who taught you this? Why are they an authority which should be listened to?

[Opinion Owner]

Nobody is an authority to listen to. I don’t kill people because someone had to tell me not to. I do it because I can imagine myself in someone else’s shoe and I wouldn’t want to be murdered.

[Kryzo]

So you never lied or stole something?

[DJB72]

You're too young to understand young Padawan...

[OddBeMe]

Funny how all religious books sanctions murder in some way. But what you find becoming an atheist is morality comes from within. Not from religions.

Do unto others what you want done to you. Who said that?

[Kryzo]

I believe it was Jesus. Morality doesn't come from within. If it did, well anything I or anyone feel is morally okay is permissible.

[OddBeMe]

Confucius over a thousand years before.

[Kryzo]

Leviticus 19:18. It was written two centuries before Confucius. Jesus reiterated that. Try again.

[OddBeMe]

you say that but it took time to write didn't it? 337bc. Just saying everyone copies off each other and nothing is "god sent"

[Kryzo]

Again. Who copied who?

[OddBeMe]

We’re arguing with straws. But Confucius was born 551bc. Average lifespan was maybe 50 years. And Leviticus was written from 538-332. So Confucius would be first by any measure. Again…it’s straws. I’m just asking for you to widen your gaze from the awful bible.

[Kryzo]

Oooo shaking now are we? It is traditionally attributed to the 6th century BC. The Bible is the bedrock of modern Western society. Now answer my question. What is the moral basis of the world if God does not exist? This destroys Athiesm and proves it should never be followed in full. Ever.

[Herbologist]

Truth is subjective and morality is subjective without God.
People, get to decide whats right and wrong when God is removed. This is the essence of democracy, godless masses, dictating moral behavior and condemning who they see fit.

[Kryzo]

Why should I care what the majority and democracy has to say? It was the same democracy which once held slavery in high esteem. No Athiest can seem to give a coherent answer except agree with me on this.

[Herbologist]

Well if they disagree with you, they can create laws which make your life difficult, and oppress you. Like how western societies oppress people morally. Thats why you should care, and thats why God is important, it gives an objective pillar of strenght and morality to build our institutions around.

Side note: No one ever held slavery in high esteem. Slavery was a common part of human life, since the dawn of human civilization across all races and ethnic group, regardless of the governmental systems

[Kryzo]

Oh no. I'm well aware of cultures in which having slaves was a point of status. The more you had, the bigger you were. So I'm basically a slave to the majority. In which case, I'll do things my way and make sure I don't get caught.

[AngryCarl]

Getting away with it is key. You need a good way to dispose of the bodies. Just dumping them in the woods won't cut it. And don't keep them under the floorboards either, they smell pretty bad.

[spearheadbt2]

You should like these books:

Brothers Karamazov (Dostoievski)

Thus Spake Zarathustra (Nietzsche)

These authors wondered about that quite a bit.

[Kryzo]

I've watched videos on their ideas. Both of Fyodor and Nietscze. They don't offer anything conclusive either. If God does not exist, nothing is wrong.

[spearheadbt2]

What do you mean conclusive? The whole argument of Aliosha (Karamazov) is that if there is no God, there is no right or wrong. It’s basically the only reason why Aliosha (and Dostoievski) believe in God.

And this is directly related to Thus Spake Zarsthustra. Nietzsche basically says, that God is dead and mankind itself must turn into a race of Overmen (or Supermen), basically becoming gods ourselves. Which to Nietzsche, means coming up with our own personal set of values, of right and wrong.

What Nietzsche and Dostoievski recognize, is that morality only makes sense if it is absolute, and this is what a God brings you. This is actually true. I don’t understand what is inconclusive here. All our set of modern values, of right and wrong, is based on the Bible. If there is no Bible, why should we trust one set of values is better than the other? This is of course what you are saying, but this has already been said in the past, and I‘m not sure what more there is to add to this.

[Kryzo]

Well, as it stands, a vast majority in the West do not adhere to the Bible nor Believe in God. So do they have the right to complain if I do whatever I want to them? No? Right? It is just "nature".

[spearheadbt2]

Yeah, but our societies are still built on judeo-christian values. You might not agree with these values, but what do you expect to be able to do? Do whatever you want because you do not believe in God? That won’t help you. Even if you do not agree with the rules, they still apply.

[Kryzo]

Who says they apply? The same people who decided to follow them? What if I grow enough power or am smart enough to get away with it? I can make my own rules right? No one follows the religion anymore. So on what basis do they hold onto those values? It is like keeping a house without its foundation and hoping it to stand.

[spearheadbt2]

Well, if you can get away with it sure, go for it. But prisons are full of people who thought *they* could get away with it. So yeah, of course they apply, otherwise there would be no judicial system!

[Kryzo]

Yup. And many haven't been caught. You just don't know about them because they've not been caught. But I agree, the judicial system shouldn't exist either under this worldview. Free for all.

[spearheadbt2]

Indeed. But there‘s a lot of chance to it. Intelligence, of course, but definitely a lot of chance. It also depends on the nature of the crime. There’s not a lot of murders that go unpunished these days, especially because of DNA.

I never said the judicial system shouldn’t exist. And nowhere remains free for all. It’s too chaotic. Know the HBO series Deadwood? Heck, the Old Testament is all about that. Religion essentially exists to bring order. And the way to sell this order is to give a God and a meaning to life. It’s how humans figured out to live without everything being utter chaos

[Kryzo]

You just don't know the crimes that go unpunished because they don't get caught.

[spearheadbt2]

That’s not exactly true. You generally find murder victims. Or at least you know when someone disappeared. You kinda notice it when you were stolen something, and people usually go to the police for that, especially if you are a business. Etc. Sure some crimes might be harder to track of, especially if it involves gangs, but the most notable ones aren’t so much.

[Kryzo]

Yes, and how many murder/man missing cases are unsolved within the system/culprit not found? Please look it up. I'd imagine the number to be rather extraordinary. Those are all people that we know of, who have gotten away with it from the law.

[spearheadbt2]

Nowadays? Not a lot. Sure, there are probably a lot of cold cases, but they are mostly old ones when dna analysis was not a thing. Since dna analysis, the vast majority of murders are indeed punished. Besides, you should not look at absolute numbers but relative ones. Ie. Percentage of murders that are unsolved.

[Kryzo]

Yup. Look it up. And add man missing cases to it too. A good number will be murder

[spearheadbt2]

Heck, adding to dna analysis we have laptops and internet activity, and much more cameras all around. It’s pretty hard to be invisible nowadays.

[Kryzo]

Yeaaaah. I study Cyber Security bro. Its not that hard to by untraceable.

[MountAverage]

I don't understand your thought process here. All rules are manmade.

[Kryzo]

Exactly. And I have no obligation to follow manmade ideals or rules. Nothing is "wrong". As long as I don't get caught.

[MountAverage]

There's people who only follow rules so they don't get caught. These people are called psychopaths. Then there's people who follow rules because they consider them morally right. I'm not religious and I don't believe in any gods. I'm also not a psychopath, I don't wanna murder or rape anyone, even if it wasn't against the law. Tell me, why do I - and milions of other people like me - do that?

[Kryzo]

Because whether you are "religious" or not, you still have religious influence within you. Engrained in you from society and you've not broken past it. I'm sure many tribes would kill for the fun of it or rape as they see fit. Even some animals forcibly copulate.

[MountAverage]

Ah, you're one of those lunatics. Let me guess, Jordan Peterson fanboy? Oh well, you're a kid still, so I don't blame you for having retarded opinions.

[Anonymous]

if God doesn't exist then there is no "morality". it's ALL man made then.

[Kryzo]

Agreed.

[CTMU-Theory]

Doing bad things is FUN.

[Kryzo]

Often, yes and it is an easier way to get things you want. There is no "bad", if there is no God.

[CTMU-Theory]

Oh no, actual thuggery is a terrible way to get things you want (corruption and lying on the other hand is not), but acts of violence is FUN.

I'm all for a "nihilist state" where the "police" is abolished, and terrible violent acts are done every day to people live on TV for entertainment.

[Kryzo]

Thuggery can also be a very effective way, if implemented properly. Although if such a state was establishd, I'd be inclined to take you out first since you are not held back either. Only sheep don't pose me any danger.

[spearheadbt2]

You sound like George Carlin haha