What do you think about this: my country has passed a law that bans the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008?

[Razp_Sorbet]

My country has passed a law that bans the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008.

[WhiteSteve]

I’d generally be supportive, although I guess I do have a couple of questions about tobacco, though, about how harmful it is, like just in and of itself. I guess I just always said “cigarettes = bad for you”, but I’d want to know a little more about if it’s the tobacco that might cause cancer, or is it the chemical additives in PROCESSED tobacco? Like smoked marijuana seemingly has no correlation to lung cancer (can be harmful in other ways any smoke can, COPD, etc), and that doesn’t have all kinds of outside bullshit in it, it’s just the weed. You see chewing tobacco cause oral cancer too, but again, I’d be curious if it had been identified if non-processed tobacco would have the same effect or not. So is it the tobacco or the additives that are most harmful? I only ask because I’d want to know if you could still have it but keep it natural like with weed, and I don’t know if you could maybe even do more advanced stuff like tobacco edibles or tinctures, like safer delivery systems. I don’t know the science of all that, if it works like THC does or if it’s different and wouldn’t work if ingested.

But, gun to my head, with no further information, tobacco use as we know it doesn’t seem to have a ton of redeeming qualities in terms of one’s health, so I wouldn’t be opposed to that sort of thing.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Well we have vaping which is a less damaging way to receive nicotine. As well as gums and patches which are typically used by people trying to quit.

[WhiteSteve]

Hmmm…man, am I unprepared for this, scientifically😂 So…. I’ve never smoked a cigarette, so I’m not sure what the effect is like, but is the effect coming from the tobacco or the nicotine? My vague understanding was that nicotine was just an addictive chemical added to tobacco so people would develop a habit and continue buying it. I’m old and unfamiliar with the whole vaping culture, haha. I know there were first those E-cigarettes that delivered nicotine if you were trying to quit actual cigarettes. I thought the vaping now was about blowing fat clouds, lmao. I’ve heard cigarettes give you a bit of a head rush, but I figured that was the tobacco, not the nicotine, so I don’t know if there’s a head rush from vaping or not, and if it’s the nicotine causing it. So many questions😂 But yeah, if it’s about nicotine, which I just understand to be an addictive agent rather than something that gives a noticeable psychoactive effect (could be wrong about that), I could see vaping as a less harmful substitute or a tool to quit altogether, but I would wonder why anyone would pick up vaping without having a tobacco habit first. That is unless I’m wrong and there’s a head rush associated with nicotine on it’s own.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Nicotine is the addictive property, it gives you a high essentially in the sense it gives you adrenaline.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Heightens mood, alertness and memory too

[WhiteSteve]

Ok, so the high IS coming from the nicotine then. I wonder what role the tobacco ever held then?😂 I thought it was an additive, not something naturally-occurring, but I guess I apparently don’t know anything about nicotine, so I should probably just shut up lmfao

[abc3643]

Actually vaping is NOT less damaging. It is MORE damaging.
therealcost.betobaccofree.hhs.gov/vapes/faq

Vapes can expose your lungs to harmful chemicals, such as formaldehyde and acrolein, and toxic metal particles, such as chromium, nickel, and lead.

Vaping can expose you to cancer-causing chemicals, and metals that are known to be toxic to your lungs, and seriously addictive levels of nicotine. Some users may also experience coughing and wheezing, nausea, vomiting, headache, and dizziness.

[WhiteSteve]

@abc3643 that sounds sub-ideal, haha. I remember a few years ago there was some trouble with THC vape pens landing people in the hospital, and even a few died. I guess the cartridges were being produced privately by jabronis and they used Vitamin E oil, and I guess that just gets your lungs all clogged up in a hurry. I’ll stick to edibles and vaporized flower👍

[Razp_Sorbet]

@abc3643 it's actually not more damaging. It's at least 95% less harmful than cigarettes but that doesn't mean it is healthy.

[abc3643]

No, @WhiteSteve is correct.
en.wikipedia.org/.../2019%E2%80%932020_vaping_lung_illness_outbreak
Many young people have had considerable lung problems much worse than by smoking.
I smoked both tobacco and weed.
I wouldn't vape - too dangerous and addictive.
en.wikipedia.org/.../Vaping-associated_pulmonary_injury

[Razp_Sorbet]

@abc3643 "it seems that e-cigarette consumption is less toxic than tobacco smoking. This does not necessarily mean, however, that e-cigarettes are free from hazardous effects" respiratory-research.biomedcentral.com/.../s12931-021-01737-5

[abc3643]

Yep!

[Razp_Sorbet]

@abc3643 so he isn't correct. It's not "MORE damaging" . It is less but, it being less doesn't mean it's healthy or safe.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Sorry meant you weren't correct in the first place. I wasn't disagreeing with Steve

[abc3643]

Smoking is dangerous and, right now, it seems that vaping is less dangerous except that vaping has more unknowns that smoking does.

Here's a different example.
I am much older than you - I turn 60 in about 4 weeks.
In 1928 the antibiotic penicillin was discovered and the quest for new antibiotics went forward. In 1948, there came tetracycline. It was commonly used and often in young children. A later side-effect was discovered - tetracycline staining of teeth. This is a permanent non-white tooth color; no amount of bleaching can fix it. I was born in 1963 and I suffer from tetracycline staining - I have never had white adult teeth - all because I was frequently given tetracycline as a baby and toddler. My point is that the harmful effects often take a years before they are noticed. Right now, it is young people who are vaping although, thank God, less of them are now after what happened 3 years ago. Vaping may be as bad as smoking and possibly worse. With smoking, you know what you are getting into. With vaping, it's a roll of the dice right now. We'll know more in 20-30 years.

Anyway, back to the original question: All tobacco and nicotine products should be banned.

[Massageman]

I am certainly for it. I've seen what tobacco smoke/nictotine etc has done to several people and the contamination is reeked upon their homes. A total ban simply sets up "the next lap" when people who ARE addicted to it find ways to purchase some illegally, just as they do now for heroin, fentanyl, etc.

If people are to be "free", it is their choice. But, if they are "wise", too, they will choose not to buy/use/sell it. Anyway, cigarettes are 30 to 50 US cents or more EACH as I type this. I can spend my money on much more basic, necessities of life such as fresh water, decent food, repairs to my roof, etc.

[holdem4884]

People addicted to heroine or fentanyl are addicted to opioids, not the particular drug.

No one is addicted to tobacco, people are addicted to nicotine. If you ban tobacco, those with addictions can still purchase products with nicotine which happen to lack the carcinogenic effects of tobacco. That's a rather significant difference.

[holdem4884]

Great idea. Tobacco use has no redeeming value, notice I didn't say nicotine.

This isn't something that can be equated to marijuana for a plethora of reasons. If coffee beans were carcinogenic and illegal to sell, you wouldn't have hundreds of millions of people still drinking coffee, they would simply ingest the addictive chemical caffeine by another method.

Nicotine is the addictive chemical in Tobacco. It has some weak (potential) legitimate uses which can be found without the carcinogenic and other harmful effects of tobacco.

If people want to ingest nicotine, let them have at it, it's not a carcinogen.

[Red-Blaze]

I think its over all good
I mean as long as its about selling not holding

If someone then wants to fo out of there way to harm them self they can
But its going to be harder (hopfully) and possibly cost more (as less places will want to carry it, and over time you need to get it from out the contry possibley)

Hopfully they also work on the assusion with it to help push it away

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yep the only people who would get in trouble is the person selling the product just the same as if anyone underage tried to buy alcohol

[Red-Blaze]

So as long as the rep for cigs are bad, not fun, not cool I think this law will likely be good

[Chazmatazz269]

It kind of blows my mind that people STILL use tobacco despite decades of solid research showing the almost universal negative consequences of it. That said, i believe in personal liberties and accountability. So you SHOULD have the right to make bad choices for yourself. However you should NOT get to impose your choices on others, as in secondhand smoke, and you shouldn’t get to impose the consequences of your choices on others, as in frivolous lawsuits against the people and companies who enabled you to make dangerous mistakes.

[Levin]

NZ continues to be one of the most cucked countries on the planet.

You pay your taxes for your government to tell you what to do with, and what goes in, your body.

by the way, I very much doubt vaping or the synthetic chemicals that are supposed to be a replacement for sugar are particularly good for you, either.

[Levin]

I'd also like to know what NZ is doing to tackle its obesity problem. What is it, 33% of NZers obese? And yet preaching about health...

[Razp_Sorbet]

Unfortunately tackling obesity is a lot more complicated. It involves not only the government but manufacturers, schools, health professionals, and retailers (supermarkets etc). People were complaining down below about how much money supermarkets would lose without cigarettes, just wait until they are forced to cut prices of groceries because as it stands buying junk food is literally cheaper than healthy food and supermarkets are price gouging everyone. It's why we were so excited for Costco to open here because our supermarkets don't have any competition, we have 3 main supermarkets and 2 of them are run by the same company just different names. The other is an Australian owned company.

[Levin]

I see. I did not know this.

Anyway, back to my main point. in my opinion, countries like NZ, Canada and Australia have really gone down in my estimations with their overreactions and government overreach during the pandemic. Alternative opinions were expunged and crushed. Experimental medical products were thrust upon the public - who were coerced, where the companies were indemnified from liability.

Tackling obesity is impossible if the population does not take responsibility. I'm pretty sure more than half of adults in most Western countries have one or more chronic condition for which they are popping one pill or another. Overweightedness in many countries is running at about 60 odd percent in adults and usually 30 odd percent obesity. It is outrageous that they should preach in any manner about health.

Overall, trust in public institutions could not be lower. They should be not be legislating and criminalising the population for trivial nonsense, restricting their freedoms, for they have no moral or intellectual authority.

So sorry, I do relate this back to the pandemic. And overall, the NZ government can go and fuck itself.

[Levin]

Put another way, I see this as part of a wider theme of government overreach and the men in NZ having no fucking testosterone. Does no one have any balls anymore? What a weak and overly compliant population.

[Razp_Sorbet]

That's your opinion and I disagree as would the vast majority of my country. I don't think wanting the best for people makes you lack balls. It takes balls and pussy power to enforce such strict rules for the greater good of a nation. 😊 Have a good one

[Kaneki05]

Would say they have about 3 brain cells because even a person with 5 could tell you that making drugs illegal does not stop them and in fact makes the situation 10x worse.
Tell them to read what happened when Alcohol was banned in America. Tell them what happens now as drugs help fund human trafficking.
And if they still think that's better than just people buying them for themselves while a large portion of that money goes to taxes they are just insane.

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's not being made illegal 😌

[Kaneki05]

It is illegal to anyone from 2008 and last I checked time goes forward not backwards so it will only make it illegal for more and more people as time goes on.
Therefore a black market will need to be created for it. So same problems will arise.

[Razp_Sorbet]

It will be illegal to sell to. It's the same as an age restriction on any controlled substance. It just increases every year.

[Kaneki05]

It's not the same at all. In 2028 people born in 2008 will be 20 and if they cannot buy cigs that's not the same as not allowing a kid smoking. In 2048 they will 40 years old and cannot buy cigs.
This is making cigs illegal to any future citizen therefore not just age restriction.

[Kaneki05]

Tbh might stock now on cigs then sell them overseas to this country in 20 years time when this will be a prime market for the illegal stuff.

[Kaneki05]

Though that might be smart thing to do anyway our country might do the exact same dumb thing.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Interesting. What country is this? I think they're straight up trying to phase it out. I mean the strategy looks like that. I wish I never got addicted to nicotine that's for sure. I vape like a total pig and was chain smoking with a cough before I made the switch. Sure I'm buff and stuff, but I still feel the effects like coughing up shit in the morning.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Aotearoa New Zealand

[msmissydc]

Thats the opposite of what is needed. Criminalization only makes it 'cool' in certain groups that are most effected by it. Yes tabaco is harmfull and ways to prevent too much use is good but not with making it illegal. But from all ways to legaly get rid of it, this seems to be the best way.
Speaking as a non smoker here.

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's not being criminalized. It's being phased out. It will take decades until nobody is able to buy them.

[DiegoO]

In a fairy tail. What will happen is that you'll have new illegal products coming in.

[holdem4884]

@DiegoO Or it will be replaced by nicotine products that are legal and non-carcinogenic.

[Aerissa_Jade]

It sounds good on the surface, help people to be healthier by outlawing a unhealthy practice.

The problem I see though, is this opens the door for banning other stuff in the name of being healthy.

Ban high fructose corn syrup, raw sugars, and other unhealthy stuff, is one step closer, while at the same time taking away some current freedoms/rights.

[Adam1978]

Good, it's a useless harming product that shouldn't be in production. It's not like other drugs who get you addicted fast and give you a rush. This will take effect, the number of people who going for illegal smoking when this is over, will be a extreme minority.

[petitedollbabee]

I didn’t think they were serious about this. You can’t truly stop someone accessing it. I mean look at the referendum, cannabis is still illegal but still being sold and grown country wide. People will just start growing tobacco in their backyards, or sneaking it into the country. And I doubt they’ll ban nicotine vapes, they’ll probably just start heavily taxing that or alcohol in place of tobacco.

[holdem4884]

That's patently false. Increased education about the harm of tobacco along with sales restrictions, increased sales taxes, and banning it's use indoors has led to a DRAMATIC reduction of tobacco use in the US.

[holdem4884]

"Of the more than 7,000 chemicals in tobacco smoke, at least 250 are known to be harmful, including hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide, and ammonia. Among the 250 known harmful chemicals in tobacco smoke, at least 69 can cause cancer."

Nicotine is 1 chemical found in tobacco products. Don't confuse the two.

[petitedollbabee]

What does any of that have to do with what I commented? I think you’re replying to the wrong person.

[holdem4884]

Tobacco isn't like marijuana. It's been proven that you absolutely can influence how many people use it. 30 years ago a pack of cigarettes was dirt cheap but even with the cost skyrocketing people haven't started growing tobacco at home like weed. Millions have quit or not started instead.

[12Volt]

I went to a pot shop two weeks ago. They asked me which of the 50 flavors I wanted to smoke. I told them I hated that shitty smell, and to just gimme the gummies.

The sativa gummies don't do shit for me, but the indica version makes me sleep like a baby. Prior to this, I was taking pills that made me feel like a zombie the next day.

I'm not promoting the use of cannabis, but if you're in pain or can't sleep, you might want to take a walk on the wild side.

[Hardworkingguy]

I believe that everyone has the right to do whatever they want if it doesn't bother other people or affect them and the problem with smokers is that most of the time they don't respect the space of non-smokers and you are forced to smell their smoke...

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yep and second hand smoke kills!

[Hardworkingguy]

Exactly. Some smokers don't care there are others less than a few steps away...

[RavVid]

Not such a bad thing. I'll be surprised if the same doesn't follow in Australia. On the other hand NZ is more liberal with vaping. I had to get the NZ juice.

[FreyaRed]

In real democracy with constitution and so on, this law would be torn apart by constitutional court because of discrimination. I mean why not forbid tobacco sells to everyone?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Are you talking about the USA?

[FreyaRed]

Nope. Anti-discrimination laws are common and majority of countries have constitutions

[Razp_Sorbet]

So majority of countries are discriminatory because they have age limits to buy certain things?

[holdem4884]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Having a Constitution and democratic rule in no way precludes banning the sale of addictive cancer causing agents.

She cannot be speaking of the US as it has no "constitutional court".

This isn't discrimination. It's a way of preventing new generations from becoming addicted and continuing the cycle.

Anyone who's faced an addiction knows it isn't a choice.

[FreyaRed]

@holdem4884 Read the second sentence in my original comment. I think a general ban (for everyone) will satisfy equality laws and bring people away of health damaging addiction.
Of course I understand that any state gets billions from tobacco tax every year, but 'raping' equality just because some people aren't competent enough to make hard decision isn't a solution either. What comes as next, people born after 2008 have to work 80 hours/week for half of normal wage? Maybe we should declare them as slaves of the state without any human rights and harvest their organs without any consent?

This law introduction attempt aren't anything else than starting a Salami tactic to introduce further arbitrary laws.

[holdem4884]

Salami tactic? Salami is a type of processed meat my genius friend.

As I stated above, you have no idea what you're talking about and you give further evidence with each comment.

"some people aren't competent enough to make hard decision"

You clearly don't understand the nature and power of addictions if you're willing to make such an uninformed statement.

Take the most competent people in the world, saddle them with an addiction, and rational decision making goes out the window. You only make truly free decisions before becoming addicted, once hooked the addicts mind operates in a different way. It's not equal at all. This is about keeping people from getting to the point where they are addicted and trapped.

There is no innate human right to ingest cancer causing agents. To try and drawal an equivalence between it and harvesting human organs shows you're a lunatic with no intellectual foundation.

[NamerOfStars]

That's going to work just as well as the "war on drugs" did over here. It's not "world-leading"; it's "following on thirty years after the fact, but with added age discrimination".

[DynamicKicker]

Good in my opinion but it should be pushed back to 2001-2002. So anyone 21 or older like it is in the United States

[Razp_Sorbet]

The legal age here is 18 currently. It'll mean that when these people turn 18 the age will go up to 19 then when they turn 19 it will be 20 etc so they will never be able to buy

[NathanDavis]

that's just dumb...

if they really want to make a difference, then they should band the tobacco industry

[Razp_Sorbet]

This just phases it out over time, banning the industry only makes it unsafe

[NathanDavis]

drugs sales are banned to everyone... been the case for decades now

and it certainly has not helped at all

[Razp_Sorbet]

Exactly...

[exitseven]

Making cigarettes cost over ten bucks a pack has done more to get people the quit smoking than all the phony bans and programs.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yep raising the prices did have a massive impact, the smoking rate went from 25% to about 8% which is amazing so why not push it even further and make it even harder to start

[exitseven]

I think if people really want to do it it should be their choice.

[Razp_Sorbet]

And it is still their choice. They can still do it but they would have to ask someone to buy them for them.

[exitseven]

Yes, no sales to people under 18.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yep. Then 19, then 20, then 21, then 22 etc

[purplepoppy]

I read about that on the news but I think it would be better to just ban it in one go over night.

[Razp_Sorbet]

I think phasing it out is the way to go. Banning outright will cause an uproar and I think they would be sold off market for a lot longer than this method

[KostasKouvalis]

It's more symbolic then anything. The keyword here is "SALE". People will just have someone else buy it for them if they really want it. That's what people do here

[Razp_Sorbet]

Sure but that makes it a lot harder to get and harder to start which is the point.

[roy_ricky09]

Let see how that turns out.
Tobacco production and business is a billions of dollars industry..
Governments profit from it and have been from ages...
But if that happens, it will be really good.

[Razp_Sorbet]

The government only profits off it because they up the tax on it to make it undesirable to buy. The excise duties and GST on cigarettes in NZ accounts for about 70% of the retail cost.

[Adaeva]

I see nothing unusual about banning tobacco to those age 14 and younger.

[Razp_Sorbet]

They will never be able to buy tobacco even when they are of age

[TrueConfection]

Tobacco should have been banned a long time ago, but it seems so tame compared to the chemicals out there today.

[dustybiker]

Isn’t that a 14 yr old? Do they need to start smoking?

[Razp_Sorbet]

The point is that when they turn 18 (the current legal age to buy tobacco) they will not be able to and never will be old enough to nor will any one born after them

[dustybiker]

Black tar in lungs and deadly disease vs a minor controlling government issue… hard to be pissed about this.

I do get the slippery slope attachment allowing this to pass causes though. It will effect other issues.

[sage2021]

I guess if you're my age and smoke cigarettes, you could always ask your older children to buy them for you. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[DiegoO]

I think your country will regret it, just like the US did, after banning liquor.

I don't smoke, but I think banning things, only leave more space to the black market.

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's not being completely banned

[alice55]

Not gonna work tabbaco seller Never Check thé âge

[KostasKouvalis]

We're assuming if the law passed they would start checking it. But such a law is stupid, because people would just get it from other people. But I believe you because in Greece I saw 7 year olds buying cigarettes.
Honestly, I've been to only 30 countries and the U. S. is the only one where I've been IDed to buy alcohol. Even Canadians didn't ID me. Americans are obsessed with IDing people, to the point where it's ridiculous!

[Razp_Sorbet]

They definitely check the age here. We are very strict on it.

[alice55]

I highly doubt it

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis they would buy it from thé black market

Weird for thé Land of freedom

[KostasKouvalis]

Yeah, or just have their friends buy them.
Ugh, don't get me started.
Go get ready for the match :p

[Razp_Sorbet]

I don't buy cigarettes but every time I buy alcohol I get checked even when in restaurants and bars.

Why would they go to the black market? They're still available you just would have to ask someone older to buy them. The whole point of this law is to make it harder for people to start smoking.

[KostasKouvalis]

I think our countries are very similar. Too similar, and not necessarily in a good way

[InsecureLivesMatter]

Walgreens definitely screens for age

[KostasKouvalis]

@InsecureLivesMatter Yes, I know😂

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis We won, we're in final now this is so cool ^-^

[alice55]

@InsecureLivesMatter some does most don't and like I said there's the blackmarket, if 13 years old can easily get weed, drugs and alcohol that would just be as easy if not easier to get simple tabacco, there's also old peopler that buy young one tobacco (student ask the adult to buy them some and the adult do it). there's many ways to get stuff so the law don't make any sense.

[KostasKouvalis]

I know second time in a row! I'm not surprised because France wasn't intended to win Russia, because they were building a team for THIS one. Defending champion usually plays lousy. I love France, but I will be rooting for Argentina though, because I want Messi to finally win something, and I'm tired of European teams winning four consecutive cups. But this one was a TRUE World Cup! Three continents in the semi-finals. Who would have imagined Morocco would get this far? It's interesting how many people consider only blacks to be "true Africans", but blacks can't accomplish anything, even in sports. I'm not a huge fan of Morocco, but I was rooting for them (not against France), but in some of the other matches, just to see how far they could get, and I was also getting tired of European teams dominating at the World Cup, so I'm extremely happy that Argentina is in the final. This will be a REAL final!

I'm kind of wondering if some other powers help push Morocco through, because Morocco was bringing in fans and money. But I still don't think they had the same kind of support from Africans as Ghana did in South Africa

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis i m happy when small team get far cause it’s much easier to win against them 😹
I was always rooting for thé nederland cause i think they played well on thé last 30 min and it bothered me how Argentina stopped playing and acted as if they won while they were still 15 min to play

I personnally prefer when european team dominate but that’s surely cause i m european 😹

I think qatar gave them a lot of money and help from thé referee for sure (like when they refused à but from Griezmann against Tunisia)
And it’s gonna be hard for us cause a lot of our player fell sick because of thé AC (we don’t use it in France nearly Never and in qatar thé AC us too strong so our player fell sick)
And last year Messi won thé south American cup so he should let us win this one XD

[KostasKouvalis]

That too. That's why I wouldn't have minded Morocco in the final against Argentina 😂

Don't get me started on that match

Oh, is THAT why they're getting sick? Because a lot of teams were getting sick.
But that's not the same as the World Cup and you guys already won Russia. Don't be greedy😂

[slatyb]

In the US you have to be 18 or 21 to smoke. 2008 is only 14 years ago.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yes... The age to buy tobacco at the moment is 18. Anyone born after 2008 will never be able to buy tobacco. Even when they are 40 they will not be able to as the age will change every year they get older

[slatyb]

I'm in favor.

[jshm2]

Yeah well... Seems New Zealand's black market just got a new product...

[Razp_Sorbet]

Considering tobacco isn't illegal no it didn't.

[Agape93]

Good idea but it'll make a blackmarket for them and dangerous alternatives overnight

[Razp_Sorbet]

Not really. Cigarettes will still be available they just won't be legal to sell to people under a certain age and that age will change every year.

[Agape93]

Except those who can still buy it legally can just sell it to younger folks for a higher price, or folks from nearby countries can do it too. Plus people will look to find other ways to relax and smoke, and they could decide on those instead.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Eventually there will not be anyone to buy them off legally though.

[Agape93]

Hence why I said it would be a black market lol. Ok let's say your country wholly bans the sale of cigarettes. What's to stop me from buying cigarettes in a nearby country, and selling them illegally? Sure I could get caught, but I wouldn't be the only one doing this. This sort of thing happens any time you ban a product or service. You can still get it, it's just not as easy.

[Razp_Sorbet]

You'd have to get them through customs. NZ customs are very thorough.

[Agape93]

It can still happen. New Zealand can't watch every inch of shore all the time. It may seem unlikely, but that's literally how smugglers work lol shit, that's how they get drugs, guns and explosives to criminals in Japan

[Razp_Sorbet]

It seems unlikely as people who are first affected by this don't turn 18 till 2027 so there will be people older who can still legally purchase for decades to come.

It just makes it less desirable for younger people to start.

[CALIGVLA]

"Criminalize tobacco and legalize marijuana!"

😂😂😂

[Razp_Sorbet]

We had a marijuana referendum and the people voted no to legalizing

[CALIGVLA]

You don't look like someone who voted 'no' on that.

[Razp_Sorbet]

You're correct I didn't vote no, but that doesn't matter as the majority did.

[CALIGVLA]

And what do you think about those tobacco banning laws?

[Razp_Sorbet]

I think they're great. All it's doing is stopping generations from starting to smoke.

[CALIGVLA]

I don't understand your "logics," white girl. Smoking tobacco = bad. Smoking marijuana = good.

?

[Razp_Sorbet]

There's very little evidence suggesting cannabis is linked to cancer. Cigarettes are highly linked.

[CALIGVLA]

LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. 😂😂😂

Every smoking product is carcinogenic, white girl. One could develop cancer from the habit of smoking oregano, let alone marijuana.

https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280

[CALIGVLA]

Sorry, white girl. 😕

https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280

[CALIGVLA]

Sorry again. 😕😕

www.lung.org/.../marijuana-and-lung-health

[Razp_Sorbet]

Did I say there was no evidence?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Inhaling any carcinogen will cause lung cancer. There are other delivery methods of cannabis, infact more than nicotine.

[CALIGVLA]

What part of "every smoking product is carcinogenic" don't you understand?

[CALIGVLA]

Okay, and how is marijuana ***usually** consumed?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Doesn't matter, fact is nicotine is 99% of the time consuming by inhalation.

THC from cannabis when legal can be eaten, drank, applied topically, or inhaled (probably more ways)

Cigarettes are being phased out. Not nicotine, you can still get nicotine gum, patches and nicotine in vape liquid.

[CALIGVLA]

So why would be wrong to ban smoked marijuana in your opinion, white girl?

[Razp_Sorbet]

I honestly wouldn't care if marijuana was only legalized in every form other than smoking

[CALIGVLA]

Okay, white girl. Would you be in favor or against a law to ban smoked marijuana in your opinion?

[CALIGVLA]

*and why

[Razp_Sorbet]

I think it should be decriminalized for possession and home growing within a certain amount.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Currently it is completely illegal. If it was all legal and they wanted to ban the sale of joints, buds etc but keep other forms I would be okay with that as long as it is still decriminalized.

[CALIGVLA]

Why criminalizing tobacco then? Isn't smoked marijuana good?

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's not being criminalized. And I never said smoking anything was good for you.

[CALIGVLA]

WTF, white girl?

That law is literally aiming at forbidding tobacco from being legally sold progressively by age, how isn't it a criminalizing law?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Is tobacco criminalized where you live then?

[CALIGVLA]

Un American we have idiots in positions of power, but Neo Zealanders are on another level. 😂😂😂

[CALIGVLA]

In America***

[CALIGVLA]

It baffles me how you don't see that tobacco banning laws ARE criminalizing laws.

[Razp_Sorbet]

You didn't answer my question

[CALIGVLA]

You have to be trolling, white woman... *facepalm*

[Razp_Sorbet]

Answer the question. Is tobacco criminalized where you live? It's a simple question.

[CALIGVLA]

Of course not, white woman.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Exactly... Having an age limit 9n something doesn't mean it's criminalised does it? Because everyone over that age limit can still buy it. It's the exact same except here the age limit will continue to go up.

[CALIGVLA]

Jesus Christ, white woman!!!

Of course it is a criminalizing law. Let's talk about alcohol for example. It is a criminal offence for anyone under 21 to have alcohol in their possession and selling alcohol to minors is illegal. If there is punishment, it is a criminalizing law, and if there isn't, the law simply can't be enforced.

In the case of New Zealand, this is a progressive criminalization of tobacco.

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's not illegal to posses it's just illegal to sell to.

[DavidRaul]

Thats a good step taken by the government but the point is they are gonna get it anyways illegally

[Razp_Sorbet]

Which is a lot more difficult to do and many wouldn't even try

[tiamatx]

Crazy, stupid, sad. But you can always regain freedom in democracy, just choose wisely.

[Berethor]

I am against smoking, so I am totally okay with that law.

[Stevefiveo]

I understand the law's good intentions but people should be free to do what they want even if it's something as stupid as smoking.

[Razp_Sorbet]

They are. But it's just making a lot harder to get in to. Instead of being as simple as buying a pack you'll have to ask someone to buy you one which makes you think about the shame associated with that

[Stevefiveo]

Oh, do you live there? Do you smoke?

[Razp_Sorbet]

I do and I don't smoke

[Stevefiveo]

Oh good.

[Damian69]

I don't ever want to smoke, but I think that law is pointless, people born after 2008 will still get their hands on tobacco products

[Razp_Sorbet]

Sure but it won't be easy

[FunkyMonkee]

Fine by me!! Why don't they just ban it altogether? All countries should!!

[Anonymous]

Great news for smugglers bad news for the economy

New Zealand ah a liberal utopia of course be good little slaves and pay no attention to the hyperinflation or asset confiscations we are doind for the 'greater good'

[call_me_scar]

That's a stupid law people should have the right to do with their body as they choose plus it's throwing tax money out the window

[Danny_dan92]

In other words. Someone that isn’t of age.


Why is this a problem?

[Razp_Sorbet]

They would never be of age

[acooke-13]

@Danny_dan92, but they will be of age one day, but still not allowed to buy it, I think that is her issue.

[Razp_Sorbet]

I have no issue with it.

This rule essentially changes the age restriction every year. When people born after 2008 turn 18 the, age restriction will be 19, when they turn 19 it will be 20, when they turn 20 it will be 21 so on and so forth.

[acooke-13]

Ohhh I see, my bad @Danny_dan92 I misunderstood!!

[Alexandrubaschet08]

interesting. How it should work this law in society? They try to ban slowly smoking?

[Likes2drive]

It’s 21 years old here in the USA to purchase tobacco products

[Likes2drive]

How would they stop people from getting it later on from older people? They probably need to ban it completely then

[Razp_Sorbet]

It's currently 18 here. But this law just means nobody born in 2010 for example will never in their life be able to purchase cigarettes even if they are 18

[Razp_Sorbet]

There's no way to stop them from getting it from older people, but eventually there will not be any older people to get it from

[Likes2drive]

Yeah I guess once they die off from lung cancer it will probably be banned from being imported but tobacco does have other uses so who knows what will happen

[sage2021]

@Likes2drive I remember when the age to buy cigarettes changed from 18 to 21. That seems so strange to me. I mean, if you were 18 when the law was passed, then I guess there must have been quite a few people in withdrawals because the had to stop smoking.

[sage2021]

What county is implementing that law. I'd like to know so I don't move there.

[Likes2drive]

@sage2021 Yeah the same thing happened to me when the drinking law changed and I had to wait 2 years to be legal again because I was 19 when it changed but I wasn’t addicted to drinking. The asker is in New Zealand not from here

[David_Kek]

not a fan of governments telling people what they can and can't do with their own body.

[AmeerX]

Just to criminalize people. No thanks numerous laws only create problems

[Anonymous]

Nice try, really. But it ain't gonna stop these kids from obtaining tobacco products. People born before 2008 can resell those tobacco products at a higher price and make profit.

[Raaj4you]

Awesome! Let's work together to create tobacco free, drugs free, alcohol free, pollution free atmosphere to protect our future generations.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Madness

you people should riot in the streets

Let Americans leaders pass a law like that heads will roll tonight!

[captain_voidwalker]

Sounds kinda like government over reach to me. People should be allowed to make thier own decisions not have the government make them for them.

[Jackblue]

And people say that the elderly are discriminated against.

[LiamJHayden]

Should government be protecting people from bad habits?

[Cubus]

Sad that drugs are going the opposite direction.

[JamesRandiDebates]

I don't agree with government banning anything that grows naturally.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Cigarettes are not natural

[JamesRandiDebates]

Tobacco is.

[Charliefretz329]

No one is free in any country under any government to make their own choices.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Love it. All cigarettes should be permanently banned.

[SmokinAces2000]

Good but they should ban it period in every country

[Copoku1]

I completely agree with this
Children have no business being involved with recreational drugs

[Razp_Sorbet]

Doesn't have anything to do with children. When this law takes effect they will be 18

[RandomGuy1030]

So now everyone will be vaping? Which lowers your testosterone. Not good

[Anonymous]

LOL! Sounds like your country REALLY hates freedom!

[allogenis96]

Tobacco and alcohol are for reprobates like women and boomers anyway, weed is better.

[katiesmuff]

Perfect more countries should follow suit!

[abc3643]

Because, in New Zealand, they are smart.

[SaoirseS]

Yet people want to legalize weed 🤦‍♀️

[WhiteSteve]

The one thing I’d say (without trying to sell you on weed overall, just within the existing context of “weed exists and people use it”), from a fully legal state, is that it does have some benefits in the sense that it offers so many more delivery systems than you had when you had to buy it privately. Like you got a bag of weed and you smoked it. That was usually it. You’d make butter if you were feeling ambitious, but that whole process is a pain in the ass, plus it’s always a heart attack to just cook a sizeable bag of bud you just paid hundreds of dollars for, for fear of ruining it in the cooking process. Point is, you usually just smoked it somehow, and that was that. Obviously, smoke is no bueno for your lungs, weed, tobacco, whatever. Now, with a dispensary always at your, er—…dispense…you have access to edibles and tinctures and capsules, and they even have infused seltzer now. So it makes it much easier to partake without damaging your respiratory system, and to this point in history, there seems to be no evidence that it does any damage to your digestive system or anything like that.

So it kind of makes the healthiest methods of consumption very accessible. You should see how many older, kinda conservative looking couples will be in the dispensary, people I’d see elsewhere and would never think were into weed, and I usually overhear them ordering, and it’s so often tinctures and things like that. It’s funny seeing them asking questions and they’ve just clearly been averse to it, but then the government said it was cool so they 180’d and started getting blazed lmao.

“Roger….”

“Diane…”

“I have a deliciously devilish idea….”😈

“Diane! You’re not suggesting…”😮

“I AM! Let’s do pot and watch Downton Abbey tonight!”😈😈😈

😂😂😂