What do you think about this: my country has passed a law that bans the sale of tobacco products to anyone born after 2008? (Page 2)

[boomstheory]

Fuck the governments laws. But tobacco is bad

[MementoMori777]

Sounds like a good idea lol

[loveslongnails]

Then they'll ban pre-marital sex.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Absolutely not. Our government isn't conservative or religious based.

[loveslongnails]

"Absolutely" ? There is no absolute when it comes to what governments will do. Today they've decided smoke products are bad for you, so they'll be illegal if you're born after 2008. Tomorrow they'll decide weed is bad for you except for medical purposes, and ban that. Then maybe it will be soda, and so on. I even agree that smoking is a bad thing, but I don't like their approach.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Weed isn't legal here anyway... This isn't America.

[loveslongnails]

My bad, thought it was for medical purposes or rec use. Anyway, that's not the point. Alcohol in excess isn't good for you either, but it's legal in NZ. Would a drink a day for your entire adult life hurt you? Not according to what we know. Would a cigarette a day for your entire life hurt you? Same answer, hence my position.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Actually it's not the same answer... A cigarette a day definitely will hurt you, it also doesn't only affect you it affects those around you too. Second hand smoke kills and those people don't have a choice in that

[loveslongnails]

You're assuming it will be smoked with anyone else around, which is a flawed assumption. And there's very little evidence showing that one cig a day will hurt you. Obviously, no cigarettes is better, but that's not going to hurt. Science has already shown us that smokers of a pack a week who smoked for 10 years can get up to 90% of the accumulated tars and resins out of their system by quitting. And how do we know that a drink a day won't hurt you either - science, so it's the same question.

Again, I'm not advocating for smoking. I'm advocating for government staying out of personal decisions. They could tax it to a point where it's impossible to afford for most people.

[loveslongnails]

By the way, I looked into it a little further, and here's some of the fine print:
1) Vaping is not affected. Why not? Vaping also delivers dangerous chemicals, including diacetyl, cancer-causing chemicals, heavy metals, and volatile organic compounds (VOCs).
2) Supermarkets and corner stores are losing their ability to sell to ANYONE
1) The amount of nicotine being allowed is being reduced to a "non-addictive level" - do we know what that is?
2) They reduced the number of stores that can sell cigs will now be around 600 and can only be sold in specialty stores.

If the government were TRULY serious about eliminating the effects of smoking, they'd eliminate vaping and the sale of ALL tobacco based products, but they're not doing that because it's too much all at once. Instead, they're preparing you for it. Hello Big Brother.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yes it's called phasing out for a reason. This has been happening for decades...
They put prices up. They put warnings on packing. They made the packaging plain. They made it so you cannot see the cigarettes on the shelf, they're locked away behind a counter. They made it illegal to smoke in cars with kids. They put rules in place where you cannot smoke within a certain distance of any entrance to a business. Also with vapes, only specialist vape retailers are allowed to sell "fruity" flavoured vape liquid, diacetyl is banned in vape liquids in NZ along with a whole load of other ingredients which are usually found in vape liquid including colouring.

[loveslongnails]

Packaging and pricing and warnings is bullshit. We all know that. My point is after they phase out tobacco products and nicotine, alcohol could be next. Maybe then they'll tell you when you can have sex too. You have WAAAAAYYYYYYY too much trust in your "government" girlfriend.

[Razp_Sorbet]

New Zealand government is one of the most transparent governments in the world. We are also left of center on both main political parties. Again this isn't the united states, we are progressive. The most I could see happening with alcohol is the age going up, but again alcohol doesn't directly affect those around you.

Your thoughts would be totally valid if this was the united states, but you saying this about Aotearoa just shows you know absolutely nothing about our government.

[loveslongnails]

What it shows is that you have a naively blind faith in "government", period. And to say " alcohol doesn't directly affect those around you" is ridiculous. It doesn't affect someone else's body directly, but the affects of alcoholism or alcohol abuse are FAR, FAR more devastating than smoking. You still sound like you think smokers are going to blow it directly in your face or down into your lungs. The word "progressive" doesn't really mean much if you don't view what's happening as progress.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Wtf do you think directly means. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Second hand smoke kills. No doubt about it. It's like you've never walked through a busy street where there's hundreds of people smoking.

You are arguing "what ifs" which is honestly stupid.

[loveslongnails]

Here we go with the name calling. *eyeroll*. Wtf does directly mean? It means "with nothing or no one in between". This entire THING is about "what if's", and you don't know your science. I agree second hand smoke is harmful, and I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T. But you're talking about atmospheric second hand smoke on "A busy street with hundreds of people smoking"? Hundreds? Really. Where in NZ does THAT happen? I'M talking about a single person having a single cigarette a day NO WHERE NEAR anyone else!

There are far more harmful things going into the air from mobile sources – such as cars, buses, planes, trucks, and trains, and stationary sources – such as power plants, oil refineries, industrial facilities, and factories.

You asked "what do you think about your country's law", etc., and I told you. Apparently you only want to hear from people who agree with the way YOU think about it. Nor do you see where this could lead because of your blind "faith" in your progressive government

[Razp_Sorbet]

Where in NZ does that happen? Outside bars of which are mostly all right next to eachother on a couple streets in my city.

Yes those things are also harmful and guess what? We are also doing things about those. Amazing that you can focus on more than one thing at a time.

I didn't name call either. You told me what you think *could* happen based off absolutely nothing and just from recent news of a Muslim country (ie conservative) that you for some reason feel the need to use without any logical means

[loveslongnails]

What the hell are you talking about? Muslim country? What the fuck are you talking about now?
Amazing that you can follow more than one train of thought as well. So it's very easy to pass a law that prohibits smoking within a certain distance of "X". And there's always this - IF it bothers you, DON'T GO TO THAT AREA.

My point remains that you post a question and all you care to do is find people who agree with your opinion. I've given you MORE logical examples of why I think this is bogus. It's not my fault if you can only hear what you want to hear.

[Razp_Sorbet]

I'm not replying to you because I disagree.. I'm replying because I don't see the logic in your opinion.

Indonesia just banned sex before marriage. That's where you got the idea from, don't play dumb.

[loveslongnails]

Excuse me, but I don't have to "play dumb", nor should you be so precocious to assume what I'm thinking. I was thinking nothing of the sort, actually. I had "1984" more in mind when I said that.

The logic in my opinion is simple. Your government has decided "smoking is bad, so anyone born after 2008 can never again purchase tobacco products". But they did nothing about vaping, which they once banned but then reversed, and is also bad.
hub.jhu.edu/2021/10/07/vaping-unknown-chemicals/
pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.1c00253

They've also taken away the right to sell from supermarkets and corner stores, reducing outlets to about 600. That a lot of revenue loss to these folks. They also didn't address other tobacco products from a health standpoint.

Point is, if you're going to take on the role of "we're protecting your health from smoke and tobacco because we're the government and we care", then go all the way and eliminate all of it. Right now, the unknowns about vaping are equally dangerous as the unknowns of tobacco used to be, but let's let that slide for now.

My point too is, what about the next thing they "decide" isn't good for you? My example for that was "sex before marriage", and it had nothing to do with ass backwards Indonesia. It was simply an example of governments deciding what's good for you and what's not. Sometimes that's the right thing to do, like when DDT got banned, or other cancer-causing agents, or drugs that caused deformities in babies. But this time, it's my opinion they're deciding that eventually, no one will be allowed to smoke in this country. If you're cool with that, ok. I wouldn't be.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Again. As I said many ingredients found in vape liquids have been banned here hence why they haven't touched on vapes yet. Because as it currently stands vaping is much less harmful than cigarettes. This doesn't mean it's completely safe and doesn't mean that nothing will happen in the future, right now the focus is on cigarettes.

The revenue lost isn't that much on businesses. Our smoking rate is under 11% (about 451k people). The loss of revenue is more on the government as cigarettes/tobacco are highly taxes (about 80% of the retail cost is tax)

I am completely cool with it, that doesn't mean I would be completely cool with every decision the government makes. There are many things I dislike that they have done.

[loveslongnails]

The only thing I can find about restrictions on vaping in NZ is about flavors, not about carcinogens. You apparently haven't read the Johns Hopkins links about vaping. To say they are "much less harmful" is extremely premature, like saying "cutting off one finger is better than cutting off three". If the population of NZ wants to go smoke-free as a country, that's up to them. All power to them, but the government should be representing what the populace wants in this case.

[Razp_Sorbet]

The only news article you have read you mean. www.legislation.govt.nz/.../whole.html#LMS525256

[loveslongnails]

I've read several news articles, but that's not the point. Thanks for the link. I see what they've done, and it seems like a good start. However, I'm not a scientist and I don't know what "acceptable levels of formaldehyde, diethylene glycol, ethylene glycol" are. You're still inhaling bad chemicals, still inhaling nicotine however reduced, and you're still putting some back out in the air.

However much "safer" vaping currently is in YOUR country vs others because of the chemical reductions, it's still smoke, and it's still chemicals. And if you take ALL the bad stuff and nicotine out altogether, then you're just inhaling steam! LOL This discussion has diminished its returns, and I'll wait to see what NZ outlaws next.

[Dargil]

I agree with it.

[Staximus]

What the Sam hell is otearoro

[Razp_Sorbet]

Aotearoa* is New Zealand 🥲

[Anonymous]

Good. All countries should.

[Nahid1707]

Which country you from?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Aotearoa. New Zealand.

[Nahid1707]

Was only asking. I’m in England 😊

[Razp_Sorbet]

Was only replying.

[Nahid1707]

Nice sense of humour 😅

[Anonymous]

I'm happy I don't live there.

[Kelly6]

I would say they did right thing

[Juxtapose]

I hate almost any law that restricts drugs.

[superderpy250]

I don’t agree with it, freedom of choice

[Razp_Sorbet]

You still have the choice. It's just harder to obtain

[Bklynbadboy12]

That's a really good thing

[Farmerboy2]

It’s great. Stop the sale all together.

[Yellovv]

Are you smoking?

[AsaKyo]

Great

[InsecureLivesMatter]

Lol, never?

[InsecureLivesMatter]

31 December 2008 at 23:59
1 January 2009 at 0:00

Stupid

[Razp_Sorbet]

They would never be able to buy them

[InsecureLivesMatter]

I mean it is really stupid if you think about it because I know someone born in 2008 dating someone born in 2009, no seriously I don't but I'm giving out a random scenario

[Razp_Sorbet]

That's irrelevant...

[Alex8736]

what country?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Aotearoa, New Zealand

[Alex8736]

gotcha

[jimmy2]

Good.