Are illegal immigrants being de-humanized?

[OddBeMe]

Because that’s how atrocities happen.

Yes

No

Other

[lightbulb27]

It's a fascinating and... disgusting issue. Somewhat, I think they are not treated well in the media and being cared for, and neither are our citizens for that matter. Our nation fell in love... with money. It fell out of love, with God, with human decency, and compassion. Not much in the media portreys people as human beings worthy of value. If these people were our relatives, we'd be sick and take them in... the ones that are "safe". Some of them are criminals, we don't know whom they are, have diseases we don't want passed around (I assume)... who knows what is really going on?

I've said before, we should have a registry of people, via Churches that are willing to host people. That IS our capacity to take in immigrants. The illegal ones become "temporary" visitors in liu of stability in their homeland, training and jobs. PROBLEM SOLVED! Something like that... if we were decent.

Conservatives generally speaking are religious people, and they are the ones holding the line to throw people back or send them back to the hell hole countries they come from. We know they are hell holes becuase that is why these often poor and desperate people come here... to have a better life. I said before... take over those countries, problem solved... grow our economy, all goodness.

Democrats are wonderful people that are welcoming them in. The problem is, they won't welcome them into their own homes... they are taking others peoples money and resources and giving it to these people, often by taking the resources out of the hands of poor americans to give to others. They are not doing this out of their own pockets. Stop saying "hey you do something", we ARE the country and we should be enabled to deal with the issues. The govt has no money but that they can take from us or print and confiscate from the world.

All in all, Jesus would be disgusted at it all, so can't hide behind religion or God.

I think our grandparents would do better.

I've been tempted more than once to visit the migrant prisons in nyc... I mean luxury hotels where they stay. Maybe I'll be able to before the lid blows on this thing.

[msc545]

Conservatives think illegal immigrants are garbage, not realizing they are the real garbage themselves for their racism if nothing else.

[Stoner710]

That’s not what we believe

[msc545]

@Stoner710 ok, you just think they are slaves, or if they are not they should be.

[Stoner710]

Nope I think they should have a revolution in their country so they can stop coming up here to cross illegally. If there really that much of a crisis in there home country revolution is warranted

[msc545]

@Stoner710 Good. Please go fight in their revolution.

[Stoner710]

I’ll fight in our revolution thanks we’re about to have one. Trump versus Biden do you really think Americans are going to accept the result of the 2024 election?

[msc545]

thanks for MHO

[Anonymous]

No letting all these illegal immigrants in is very disrespectful to those who came here legal. It also doesn't make since why we are helping people of other countries out when we can't even take care of our own people.

[OddBeMe]

How do you come here legal?

[Opinion Owner]

Got to take a test to make sure you understand the law of the country as well as a physical. got to be able to read, write and speech the language of the country you want to move to. You can also marry a legal citizen I think you have to be married to them for at least four years for it to count.

[OddBeMe]

Not that simple. Requires thousands of dollars, years of process and friends in high places.

Not for melania Trump and her big family. Anchor baby.

[Opinion Owner]

yeah well, most countries don't want an average worker so a course it's going to cost you big money. Most countries want people who can bring something to the table like a Dr. etc. Melania is a model who makes lots of money. she can also speak 5 languages. I don't know too many people who can Speaks more then 1 or 2.

[OddBeMe]

Crazy how you have to have opportunity to become something. We have so many nobodies as citizens and so many immigrants who want to come here and make soemthing of themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

yeah, I'll agree with you there. That's why it's a privilege to come to the US not a right.

[OddBeMe]

But it’s not a privilege to be born here?

[Opinion Owner]

If both parents are US citizens, it's both a privilege and a right. I can't pick what country my parents have citizenship in.

[OddBeMe]

Seems awfully arbitrary. Shouldn’t privileges be earned?

[Brokenheartedx]

Ask the white children of Rotherham and Bradford if they were dehumanitized by illegal immagrants

[OddBeMe]

Sure…and the victims of “hurt core”. But I feel bad for all the victims…not just the white ones.
www.theage.com.au/.../...aham-20160317-gnl8mv.html

[TruthBringer]

@brokenheartedx You mean the same white children who were being exploited and abused by white people as well? Love how you leave that piece of information out because it doesn't suit your biases, no?

www.theguardian.com/.../woman-offered-safe-haven-to-troubled-girls-then-pimped-them-out

www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/.../...uise_3976.htm

www.dailystar.co.uk/.../7-women-among-21-paedos-29641570

Also, it's spelled "immigrants", love. This is not the first time your spelling is off. And no, you can't use "I'm from Scotland" as an excuse. Hope this helps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff5FUoo2YZA

[Brokenheartedx]

Wee chrissy Donald of Glasgow minding his own business, was he also a victim of the savage whites?

[TruthBringer]

Whataboutisms seem to be your go-to.

[razelove]

100%, they aren't being treated like people, but political chips by both sides. We have limits on migration because it gets calculated that those numbers are the most we can soak financially and into our communities.
I'm dismissing all arguments about social welfare or sovereignty. Those are ideals both sides spout right now, not reality. Reality is people are being used and forgotten except by small communities which have exhausted their resources to take care of them.
We're also getting prisoners of other countries who don't want to take care of them. I don't blame them at all for that, even Canada won't let in aliens who don't pass a background check. They are considered significantly farther left than us as well.
This PR stunt is going to result in a lot of migrants experiencing famine, turning to crime, dying, and harming US citizens as well. It won't matter if they were a criminal before or not, they've been sold a lie.
We don't have the money to keep our own government going, how will we pay for the care of people who don't pay into taxes?
Texas is going to keep bussing people out, but what happens to the people waiting in communities with no resources to help them? Why can't they just be refused at the border? It's a stunt of both the left and right, because there is no reason the right can't just turn them back rather than pissing and moaning for attention.

[lightbulb27]

excellent answer

[OddBeMe]

Where do you get the info about “most we can soak financially”? Where is that study? Or news article. Or rando’s tweet?

[exitseven]

Biden has rung the dinner belll for every freeloader in the whole world on the first day he was in office. The invasion has been going on for 2 and a half years. Crime, homelessness and poverty is the result. Diseases that haven't had a reported case in America are making a comeback.. Fentanyl is being brought into this country by the ton and 100,000 americans died of ODs in 2022. It is all about getting votes. Hispanics have abandoned the democrat party and they are losing the black vote as well. They are creating an army of voters who know if President Trump gets back into office they will all be deported.

[razelove]

@OddBeMe That's from every part of the US government that has to do with immigrants.
From the border, issuing visas
travel.state.gov/.../immigrate.html
To the only unlimited slot being "work we can't find workers for" H1B
www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62-index-h1b
Or going to H2B a pool of 66,000 tops for this year that will get a shot at a chance of citizenship through unskilled labor as the last legal parachute.
www.uscis.gov/.../cap-count-for-h-2b-nonimmigrants

If you want to argue semantics, sure, more people could pay more taxes and we could afford all kinds of things through the government. Less people probably would pay taxes though (I don't know if you pay taxes, but they're pretty fucking high). It's probably a large reason the IRS added over 70,000 armed agents.

[razelove]

@exitseven I don't think it's fair to lay the fentanyl and disease at their feet. Chances are migrants had nothing to do with Covid, but our own tax dollars. Monkey Pox also didn't require migrants, but just like minded individuals who met up and went to different gay orgy groups, any one of which had a strange disease. Also the irony of anti-vaxxing which used to be an unintelligible left wing nonsense, then taken up by many after the covid vaccines, and still mandated by many workplaces, get the shot or get fired. You can skip MMR, but have the Covid shot and be good to work, that is ridiculous.

fentanyl has been gaining momentum like crazy since 2010, this guy did a great video on it. You don't move the huge mass that's being moved from pretty much chemical plant operations using mules. They can be used for distribution, but really it doesn't matter who buys it from the port.
www.youtube.com/watch

[exitseven]

There are diseased like TB, smallpox and Polio that have been eradicated from the US and is making a big comeback in cites where illegal aliens are being sent. Nobody knows hoe many had covid since the Biden administration's policy was tha tthey just let them in no matter how sick they are. We can just give them free health care or put another way Taxpayer Funded Healthcare,

[razelove]

@exitseven TB isn't surprising, and you can find that in rural areas, smallpox and polio I haven't read about, though that would have to be from some isolated foreign areas, that's pretty scary. Could you toss me a source on that one? All I'm getting is zero "wild type" polio, but some from travelers, no other data no solid numbers for the us, with some from WHO showing a rise globally.

[lightbulb27]

@exitseven
good points about diseases, whether numbers recorded show going up or not. we are taking big risks at exposure. Can't get into their countries without vaccines... but they can come to ours. dumb and dumber...

[exitseven]

@razelove Smallpox has been back for over a year. It is found in so called sanctuary cities. Polio which I thought was eradicated was found in New York and Massachusetts.

www.westernmassnews.com/.../

[razelove]

@exitseven Ok, gotcha gotcha, so polio and smallpox is in the northeast, pretty much exclusively in new york city. Oh no, not new york, what would we do without designer clothing brands...

[TruthBringer]

Yes.

Many of them are, yes. Even war refugees (technically also illegal until given status) are considered "immigrants" to the same people who de-humanize them. And you'll find a particular male user down here I've been having a debate with being a prime example of that.

Funny enough, the same people who dehumanize them are the same types of people who have no issues with their country invading other countries and cause a diaspora. Complaining about the very crisis they helped create.

You'll hear one of the main arguments being that immigrants are committing crimes. And while that is true to some extend, they not only seem to have a hard time distinguishing immigrants from refugees, but also generalize all immigrants as (probable) criminals who don't deserve any help. If that's not dehumanization then I don't know what is.

I am all for illegal immigrants being dismissed if they cause issues within society. I have empathy for the genuine ones who are seeking a better (and safe) lives and are more than willing to contribute to society.

[Googlemyahoo]

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

IF YOU CROSS THE U. S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET

A JOB,

A DRIVERS LICENSE,

SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,

WELFARE,

FOOD STAMPS,

CREDIT CARDS,

SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,

FREE EDUCATION,

FREE HEALTH CARE,

A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE

THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU

PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT

AND, IN MANY INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE.

[Exterminatore]

Truth!

[OddBeMe]

I’m surprised you fcks want to be MORE like North Korea…

And no, you don’t get that just by crossing the US border.

[Exterminatore]

@odd

You don’t? Really. Let’s go down that list. How many illegals do we have in this country? They must all be independently wealthy right? Of course not. They work. And do so illegally. They deprive Americans of jobs. Not jobs picking strawberry’s. They work in practically every field.

A drivers license - yes. Many states issue these to illegals. A social security card - No, but they sure do get SSI benefits which drains the SS system they do not pay into. Credit Cards - yes, they can and do apply for credit cards and receive them. Subsidized rent - yes sir. They receive section 8 housing. Don’t know about house loans though. Free education - yes, they bring their illegal children with them and get educated in our school systems at taxpayer expense. Free Healthcare care - yes, SSI and various state funded health care, at taxpayer expense of course. A lobbyist in Washington - yes, and not only that that get free PR from people like yourself. Billions of dollars of public documents in their language - I’ve see the forms for welfare, and other public assistance in Spanish. Carry Countries flag while protesting - yes, there were many Mexican flags at a protest in LA about 12 years ago where illegals were demanding free college tuition and free healthcare. Those protests spread throughout Southern CA while I lived there. In the El Monte school district someone even took the American flag down and replaced it with a Mexican flag. That has happened in multiple other states. Protests that you don’t get enough respect - yes, because during those protests throughout Southern CA, in LA the police fired rubber pulleys at sone protestors. A child was hit in the eye by one, causing further protests. In many instances you can vote - yes. Whether or not you think the 2020 presidential election was stollen or not it is indisputable fact that there were cases where illegals voted. Whether enough it was enough to change the election results by much, I doubt it, not the point.

[Exterminatore]

Now go ahead and tell me how we’re against illegals because we’re nativists, xenophobes and racists. Smh.

[Exterminatore]

On the subject of healthcare alone, my sister used to work for the state of NY. Her job was to specifically enroll illegal immigrants for free healthcare. When she saw how pervasive this problem is, she quit, choosing not to aid these illegals or the state in ripping off the taxpayer to pay for the healthcare of illegal foreign nationals, meanwhile American citizens don’t even get free healthcare.

But it’s all about racism though right? Has nothing to do with this being grossly unfair to Americans and a violation of national sovereignty.

How many illegals were granted amnesty after Regan made that deal with Congress? So all those people literally got everything on this list available to them. M

You want them here, you pay for them.

[WindAtMyBack]

They are breaking the law. They are being treated as if they are breaking the law. How is that different than any other crime?

Keep in mind that these people are all knowingly breaking the law by choice. They know the consequences of being caught, and do it anyway.

Are they living in luxury like most Americans? No. But that doesn't make it dehumanizing. Even in detainment, a lot of them are better off than they were before. Maybe that's why it's worth the risk for them. As far as risk and reward, the reward of success is high, and the consequences of failure is minimal.

[OddBeMe]

Is running a stop sign the same as murder?

[Walt832]

This people coming due to crime exist in their country. I think we should penalized their presidents due to not helping their own people. Instead they just looking for their benefit campaign or democracy sides.

The question is when are we going to help our American citizens? We offer so much help to them but we haven't solved our issues yet. Instead we are heading to more debts that we haven't pay our debts.

Is like buying a car and not paying your debt but spending money at the clubs. Then you get repo, then burn your credit. Whats left 🚲 bike to work and pay your collection on a vehicle you don't own anymore 😂. That's how America looks like.

[OddBeMe]

Penalize their poor countries of origin or maybe help them more?

[Walt832]

Penalizing their presidents is pressuring them to do something for their own people. Their presidents aren't poor they want to keep people poor for their own benefit.

Help them? When we haven't solved our issues and finances.

For example, i am in the middle of the ocean with a boat with my girlfriend. We get hit by a wave. We fell over from the boat. I look around nowhere to be found. Until i peek down and she drowning down. What will you do?

Pretty sure you will say "dive in, save her".

Good but not so good, are you able to dive in without an oxygen tank? In other words you must save your life first before saving someones. Going with no gear and losing oxygen from your own lungs and trying to grab her and now pull her up? Now two lives drowning deep in the ocean due to insufficient oxygen. 🤷‍♂️.

Too much funds is being exported even if it is a good cause. How many years have these countries been funded and no change has been seen? Instead we had extended their poorness. Because they got used to living in that lifestyle. 🤷‍♂️. The questions to those presidents will be? As their countries were funded, how were the funds used?

Pretty sure we were just buying their countries. Preventing Eastern countries from negotiating with them. Having Eastern countries close in our backyards.

[OddBeMe]

Sure, but what issues has the US drowning? And foreign aid is literally a teaspoon of the budget. Even with Ukraine. So many right wingers, not you- I actually don’t know where you fall- but they’re so against anti-Russian Biden….

[Stoner710]

No they’re illegal, I have no issue with legal immigration, stop this illegal board crossing. Some are good some are bad people we don’t know hence why we need to get those who come into the United States. Idc if your from England, you should have a background check i before you come into the United States

[OddBeMe]

So you don’t have an issue with rich people immigrating, just poor people.

[Stoner710]

Class as nothing do to with it, I know a guy who is poor who comes from Jamaica he’s poor but he immigrated legally. Now is a citizen. So if he can do it it’s not hard for someone from Mexico to do it

[OddBeMe]

Unfort that’s the difference in legal or illegal immigration. Class and money. Ask Melania

[Clarkkk]

Of course. They represent the modern slave state in America. We can hire them to cook our food, build and clean our houses, and we don’t have to pay them if we don’t want to.


This, of course, does not count the significant percentage of women and girls who are raped multiple times during their travels to the United States. Of course, that’s the ultimate dehumanization, but nobody in Washington DC cares about that.

[OddBeMe]

Unfort true. What if we gave them some type of status where they could go to the cops if trafficked?

[John_Doesnt]

All humans are humans and deserve to be treated equally regardless of their citizenship status or where they were born. It's disgusting that people will treat others less than humans because they were born in a different country.

[jshm2]

Aka "immigrants"

99.5% of immigrants are actually legal. But the way the issues are politicised you would think they are coming over like a fucking locust swarm. Or swallowing all resources like a politician in his last day in office.

[WindAtMyBack]

"99.5% of immigrants are actually legal"
Wrong. That's not even close to being true.

"are coming over like a fucking locust swarm"
Because it's true.

"swallowing all resources like a politician in his last day in office"
Last I checked everyone uses resources. And millions of people consume vast amounts of resources.

Bottom line is that you are just making shit up.

[findacure4wokeness]

Most people are sympathetic to others and want to help. But when in the middle of a full scale invasion like western society is experiencing now, westerners would naturally want to protect there own first. The one lesson we have learned lately is being charitable will only get you hated more and lets face it Immigration only serves the invaders while destroying the host society.

[gorydetails]

The atrocity is the rape, abuse, robbery, starvation, and murder they experience on their way to cross the border; and the exploitation they receive on the US side of the border because you lefties want someone brown to clean your toilet for slave wages.

[msc545]

Conservatives want brown people to pick their crops for free.

[gorydetails]

@msc545 you’re a retard. How would they want that if they want them to immigrate legally. You really are dumber than a stump.

[msc545]

You don't live in California, do you? You know nothing about the Bracero program, do you?

[gorydetails]

@msc545 So wait, you’re telling me that conservatives are racists who want to keep brown people out of the country and also want them in the country picking crop for “free”. Do you even read the stupid shit you type?

[msc545]

yes, both of those things are true, at least here in CA. Not "free" but for illegally low pay which they cannot report without getting deported.

[gorydetails]

@msc545 bahahahaha. You’re as fucking stupid as the people thinking black people can be white supremacists.

[cth96190]

They are illegal. They are CRIMINALS by definition.
Round them up, send them back, ALL of them.
Use as much force as is necessary.
In future, shoot border jumpers on sight. Watch how quickly the border problem goes away.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah and we should shoot people driving over the speed limit, cheating on their taxes or jaywalking.

[Avicenna]

Maybe you should ask the victims of violent crimes committed by people in the US illegally.
The illegal invaders should remain in their home countries instead of repeatedly breaking our laws.

[Avicenna]

If anyone is de-humanizing them, it's the human-trafficking political and business elites bringing them in en masse. And it's delusional to worry about "atrocities" being committed against them since you're a huge supporter of this illegal human trafficking, some of which is the trafficking of violent criminals who are much more likely to commit "atrocities" than to be the victims of them.

[TruthBringer]

"The illegal invaders should remain in their home countries instead of repeatedly breaking our laws."

I hope you extend that energy to your government invading people's countries and causing a diaspora and a surge in refugees. All in all, I do agree that those who enter another country for a better life and who cannot respect the law or locals should indeed stay away. But when it comes to genuine people who just want to secure a better life and are more than willing to be law-abiding citizens, I don't see what the problem is with that. It's natural for humans to try and get out of unfavorable or even dangerous environments and go for what's best for them.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: I put my fellow citizens first (something the vast majority of countries in the world do). And most people claiming asylum are not genuine refugees. Furthermore, the people entering the US illegally are primarily from countries the US never invaded, so out the window goes that BS excuse. If you want open borders in the Netherlands, that's up to you, but having seen the negative effects of such a policy in Germany, I doubt it works any better in your country. I know it doesn't work in the US.

Allowing too many people in strains social welfare systems, pushes up the cost of housing and lowers wages. We're already seeing that in the US, especially the social welfare systems.

[TruthBringer]

@Avicenna So all these refugees from let's say Iraq or Syria after US involvement are not "genuine refugees". I hope you hear how ridiculous you sound, mate. "Putting my fellow citizens first" to try and justify invading other countries and causing diaspora makes you sound like a tyrant. I hope you realize this.

I'm up for the asylum of genuine refugees. I personally know people who fled their countries and are now law abiding Dutch citizens with high levels of education and actively contribute to my society. My only issue is with the ones who come here in bad faith and cause issues. I believe my country (and many other countries) should be a bit more harsh with these people. The difference between you and I is that I don't categorize genuine people in the same group as those with bad faith only to justify my views against immigration.

[TruthBringer]

If you truly want to combat people fleeing to your (or our) border (s), how about you tell your government to stop destroying their countries. Iraq, Libya and Syria for example were fine countries until the US and its allies started to get greedy.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: Funny that you mention Syria. Actual Arabs I know in Germany who worked as translators said that almost all of the people claiming to be from Syria were actually from Morocco and other countries (one of these translators was a genuine refugee from Syria). Not really a surprise that others would take advantage of Merkel's illegal abrogation of Dublin Two. And not only has it been 20 years since Iraq was invaded (an invasion supported by YOUR government), but the invasion didn't cause huge refugee streams like the revolt against Assad's brutal rule did.

Sure, you can find some people who were genuine refugees and contribute mightily to society. But they are a small minority, unfortunately. Most of what we get is what you term those having bad faith. But I'm used to the virtue-signaling from arrogant Europeans like you and the strawmen that you inevitably set up. Never did I "justify invasion" and you shouldn't jump to conclusions/make leaps of logic. I put my fellow citizens first, especially the most vulnerable among us, by not wanting to allow these fake asylum seekers to invade and take advantage of us. If you were honest, you'd acknowledge that, because it's obvious from what I posted.

[Avicenna]

And your beloved Netherlands was part of the coalition bombing Libya (something I wouldn't have done).

[TruthBringer]

@Avicenna Not sure how reliable that source is supposed to be. Given the nature of the world, I wouldn't be surprised if there were Moroccans taking advantage of the situation and pretended to be Syrians. This is why screening is important. Something my country does.

Yes, my government is not an angel either. But unlike you, I don't bitch about people coming my way while remaining silent or even deny about my government's role in them coming my way. I blame my government's participation in their displacement instead of shoving blame at the refugees and bitch whenever they come my way.

You speak about strawmans yet you're the one who brought up Moroccans pretending to be Syrians going to Germany when the initial argument was about YOUR country and YOU having an issue with people heading your way. We weren't discussing Germany, pal. We were discussing YOUR country and YOUR people, remember? So who is using strawmans here, eh? Pot. Kettle. Black.

I stand by what I said earlier: If you don't want people to come to your country, tell your government to stay the hell out of theirs. You don't get to complain about people knocking on your door when you're throwing molotovs in their houses.

"Virtue signaling". Classic coping mechanism. You seem to not really know the difference between someone who is "virtue signaling" and someone who is logical, is empathy to his fellow human being and has an understanding to the crisis.

[TruthBringer]

@Avicenna You go ahead and put your fellow citizens first. Nobody is arguing about that, chief. But don't sit here demonize other people and shift blame to them when it is YOUR people who have a reputation of not being able to stay out of other countries, wreaking havoc and causing these crisis, in the first place. We call this hypocrisy.

Your country already has enough troubles with domestically. Last time I checked, your homeless rates are sky high. Maybe start investing domestically to tackle this issue instead of investing into bombs that will be dropped on children abroad. Food for thought.

PS: Iraqi diaspora not huge? over 9 million Iraqis have been displaced internally and abroad. Last time I checked around 1 million are in Europe ALONE. Not much you say eh? Maybe factchecking your own arguments would be a wise step.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_diaspora_in_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_diaspora

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: Ah, so because of bad policies by US leaders you say a US citizen can't point out that most asylum seekers are not genuine and that people claiming asylum from places like El Salvador weren't displaced by war. That's utter rubbish. Don't conflate unrelated things.

Maybe you ought to fact check yourself regarding Iraq. Think there weren't people from there trying to get away from Saddam Hussein or who took advantage of open European borders to get into Western Europe? Or trying to escape the sectarian warfare launched in Iraq by that awful regime next door in Iran? Ever heard of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards? And what about the Islamic State? Forget about them and their presence in Iraq as well as Syria?

We should invest more domestically. Guess who is displacing the homeless from shelter? The fake asylum seekers/illegal entrant invaders. And we should stop protecting arrogant Europeans who are too lazy to protect themselves.

Care to remind us what you do for a living and where you trained?

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: Germany is my country too.

And no matter how often you repeat inaccurate statements, the facts don't support you:

www.pewresearch.org/.../

When half of illegal entrants come from Mexico, your claim is automatically destroyed.

[TruthBringer]

What exactly is not genuine about a person fleeing from war? Or is that compassion only given to the Ukrainians? Do you not get it by now that we're speaking about actual refugees here and not immigrants migrating not for war-reasons from lets say Mexico? The only thing rubbish here is you minimizing genuine refugee's situation and make them out to be some sort of frauds. If that were the case, then how come they weren't fleeing prior to their countries getting bombed? I don't remember Iraqis or Syrians coming to the west prior to their countries going to shit.

Instead of pointing your anger at refugees and minimizing their unfortunate situation, maybe you should direct your anger to your government and tell them to stop giving people reason to seek asylum in your country. The refugees I spoke of that I know personally would not have come here if it weren't for the west invading their countries.

Iraqis were getting away from Saddam prior to US invasion, indeed. The same puppet dictator Saddam installed by the US and got its support when attacking Iran, right? The same Saddam who pointed his middle-finger at the US and refused to sell oil in dollars, right? And then coincidently had his country invaded for the excuse of having WMD that were never found, right? Ah yes, that Saddam. Petrodollar, ever heard of that? Didn't think so. So yet again, the US had its own play in this. Funny how you leave this piece of information out to take the heat off your country's crimes.
The Islamic State (ISIS)? Funny you mention those as well. Last time i checked the US had a play in their creation as proven here:

theintercept.com/.../
https://youtu.be/GU2avVIHde8

[TruthBringer]

People like you: *go invade countries and cause a refugee crisis*
Also people like you: "why are they coming here? Stay out of my country!"

Sure buddy. The asylum seekers are the cause of your homeless and not your shitty government that does nothing to stop it. Thanks for proving you are not to be taken seriously as you're so out of reach with reality.

To you, foreigners are the cause of every single problem in your country, no? Typical alt-right winger.

My training doesn't exclude me from acknowledging the harsh truths about the world, your country and my country's play in dirty geopolitics. Many of my fellow comrades as well as my seniors have expressed their distaste about these invasions. Your little "Gotcha" attempt holds no power here. I don't fly to bomb innocents and then cry they are coming my way. I have to live with the sad reality my country is a major bootlicker of the US.

[TruthBringer]

"When half of illegal entrants come from Mexico, your claim is automatically destroyed."
Can't really destroy a claim that was never made, buddy.
Like I said before, we were talking about war refugees, hence why I brought Iraq and Syria. Many of the Iraqis in the US or Germany are there thanks to your country (and my country bears some of the blame as well).

Clearly the main point went straight over your head. Doesn't surprise me coming from someone who thinks war refugees are somehow frauds after his own country invaded.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: You can't claim that people from Mexico and El Salvador trying to get into the US are fleeing wars started by a Western countries. And it isn't necessary to go halfway across the world to escape from a war. You can go to the nearest safe country where you'll be able to integrate into society for the duration of your stay.

But with talk of war, you are moving the goalposts. You earlier admitted that it's about people wanting to better their situation, which would be fine if it weren't causing problems for vulnerable people in the countries they are flooding into in large numbers and imposing huge financial costs.
If you're escaping a war in Ukraine, you go to Poland or Germany, not to the US or Canada. If you're escaping the Islamic State, you go to Turkey, the UAE or Saudi Arabia.

Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans have moved to Germany for decades (at least since the 1970s).

I won't address your conspiracy theories.

Now, about that training you received. It was in the US, a country you clearly have a huge grudge against. And you're a fighter pilot, aren't you? Are you still in the US flying military planes despite having such negative feelings toward the US?

[Avicenna]

Typical European "Gutmensch" nonsense. by the way, I know the difference between genuine refugees and fake ones having had family members who were genuine ones.

Your desire to feed your narcissism at the expense of vulnerable fellow citizens is nothing to be proud of, no matter how much you look down your arrogant nose at someone who has a realistic view of the situation.

[TruthBringer]

@Avicenna "You can't claim that people from Mexico and El Salvador trying to get into the US are fleeing wars started by a Western countries."

Can you read? This is the third time I am making it abundantly clear that I am speaking of WAR refugees. I explicitly mentioned Mexico to be excluded from my point. Mexicans crossing the border is NOT the same as Syrians or Iraqis crossing the border. Two vastly different situations.

When it comes to not escaping to the US, if that's where a better life is and the opportunity rises, then that's where they go. An Shi'ite Iraqi would be better in the US than in Saudi Arabia facing schism-based discrimination. And the person I know (who I mentioned earlier) came to my country not because he chose to come here on his own accord. It was chosen for him by the people he paid to help him escape and secured him a ticket. And newsflash buddy, most people who escaped ISIS ARE in Turkey.

Funny you speak of Ukraine. I'm seeing a lot of Ukrainians in my country lately. Many more Ukrainian license plates and I hear a lot more Slavic.

"I won't address your conspiracy theories."

Easy to call something a conspiracy theory when you're dealing with cognitive dissonance after getting facts/sources thrown at you. Because apparently lying about WMD in Iraq wasn't a conspiracy, eh? What a cheap cop-out from our little patriot.

Here are some more:

archive.globalpolicy.org/.../...r-huss-regime.html
archive.globalpolicy.org/.../34978.html

I'm not yet receiving the training. I am starting next semester. I won't be in the US for my love of the US. I'll be there for MY country. And I begrudge your government's actions against humanity just the same way as I begrudge your beloved Germany for its Nazi-history. Does that mean I hate the average German or American? No. I can still go to a country despite not agreeing with its foreign policies and military "interventions". Like I said, your guilt-tripping attempts hold no merit.

[TruthBringer]

Love it when you're now calling me a narcissist. That's quite rich coming from someone who sees no issues in his country invading others and then denies humanitarian aid to genuine refugees. "Me me me first and the rest can fuck off". Makes you truly wonder who the true arrogant narcissist is. Projection at its finest.

Calling me a Narc is a testament to the invalidity of your arguments and a clear sign you're frustrated and desperate for being intellectually challenged.

Now go back to crying victim for situations your country helped make.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: Why bring Shiites who are likely very hostile to the US and definitely hate Jews all that way when they have the choice of going to Iran or other Shiite countries? And Iraq for that matter is majority Shiite.

Someone flying a military plane around who publicly makes remarks like yours is very concerning. But maybe the FBI or the DOD should be the judge of that.

And to show you how dumb you are, my ancestors were persecuted in Germany by the Nazis. But that is the typical Dutch guilt tripping- it didn't work for you at the 1974 World Cup final, either.

Your claims have all been debunked. And the crazier nonsense you spouted isn't worth my time.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: You really are a parody of yourself. Now you bizarrely claim that I am "denying humanitarian aid to genuine refugees". Are you high?

And yes, you are arrogant, narcissistic and dishonest, as anyone who has read this whole exchange can tell.

[TruthBringer]

"Why bring Shiites who are likely very hostile to the US and definitely hate Jews all that way when they have the choice of going to Iran or other Shiite countries?"

Seems like they have. Iraqis (a Shia majority country) have fled to Iran. Not sure why you think they haven't. www.unhcr.org/.../new-hope-iraqi-refugees-iran
And like I said before, many of them flee not knowing where to go. It is chosen FOR THEM. Reading comprehension issues, no?

"Someone flying a military plane around who publicly makes remarks like yours is very concerning. But maybe the FBI or the DOD should be the judge of that."

So thinking US invasions around the globe being unjust means it is concerning? Bold of you to assume people in the military are all agreeing with US's foreign policy. Not sure why it is concerning to have an opinion that doesn't bring danger to one's own country. I have an opinion. I don't impose it. And I already passed screening. So unlike you the actual experts and the people I work with (who know my views) don't see any reason for concern. Keep reaching my dude.

Sad to hear your ancestors were persecuted. My grandparents had to live under occupation as well.

You lost the second you started throwing ad hominems around.

"Your claims have all been debunked."

I'm pretty sure it wasn't you who did the debunking, my guy. Unlike you, I was the one who brought sources to back my arguments. You're just throwing cheap cop-outs out of wishful thinking.

[TruthBringer]

Like I said, ad hominems are a testament to the invalidity of your arguments. Next to your cheap cop-outs and lack of valid sources.

Keep reaching and whining about refugees you yourselves created 😂😂

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer : Your narcissism and dishonesty continues to be on display.

Regarding your extreme anti-US views, I very much doubt you made them clear when you were being screened. There are people who are trained to decide whether your extremism is a problem, but a foreign national with anti-US views having access to military aircraft in the US needs to be taken seriously.

Good night.

[TruthBringer]

Sadly for you, I'm not anti-US.

Saying America should own up to its mistakes is not synonymous with being "anti-US". You're really are getting desperate, Mr. non Sequitur fallacy.
I merely don't agree with US's history of invasions and think they have caused much turmoil we experience today. A view others in flight school have expressed but don't act on. That's not the same as being generally anti-US and wishing the US the worst like an ACTUAL anti-US person does. Big difference there, mate. Those who did the screening thankfully do know the difference. So nice attempt to frame me as somebody I am not.

Also, learn what narcissism is. Calling someone a narcissist has become a classic buzzword by snowflakes who throw an emotional temper tantrum when not getting their way. NPD is a Cluster B disorder that 1% of the population has been diagnosed with. So the odds of me being actually narcissistic are quite small.

www.sane.org/.../is-narcissism-common-the-answer-may-surprise-you

So not only are you falsely framing me for an anti-American, but you also don't even know what the ad hominems you're using even mean.

Narcissists have no empathy and are incredibly selfish. Two things you've proven to be yourself by thinking only about yourself and denying other people the compassion and empathy for their misfortunes.

Make sure not to mald so hard next time you're presented with harsh facts and are pointed out on the very bigotry that you helped create.

Goodnight. ;)

[OddBeMe]

And violent crime comes from citizens. Id happily trade violent citizens for hard working illegals.

[TruthBringer]

@OddBeMe Careful! Next thing you know, he is going to start falsely accusing you of being an anti-American like he did with me 😂

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: No one needs to "frame you". Your own comments hang you.

You also should stay away from the armchair psychology because you're clueless about it. Everyone can see your arrogant narcissism. Maybe I should have called you out on it earlier.

As for your claims of having been screened properly, I don't think we can take your word for it. If the adjudicating authority doesn't have a problem with your anti-Semitism and the anti--US mentality you have displayed here, fine. But I don't think such comments should be ignored when you will be allowed access to US airspace and sensitive training facilities and equipment. Then again, if you get sent home for anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism, I'm sure your government will be happy to use you to shut down Dutch farms, something you will probably enjoy doing.

As for your ludicrous claims of "bigotry", I'll note for the benefit of those who don't pay close attention to the nonsense you spout that you're claiming it's "bigotry" against false asylum seekers. Yet Democratic Congressman Hank Johnson recently gave the game away when he said that the false asylum claims are because the invaders want to work in the US.

You may arrogantly think you're something special because you support false asylum seekers who make life harder for many of the most vulnerable people in US society while costing taxpayers huge sums of money. You also think it's "bigotry" to put the needs of one's fellow citizens above those of oligarchs and foreigners, but that is what the vast majority of the world is like- it's the norm globally.

[Avicenna]

Odd, you're cherry picking if you "trade violent citizens for hardworking illegals". We can''t just get rid of citizens because you don't like them (I suspect if you were honest, you'd also want to get rid of any US citizen whose politics you don't like). They are fellow citizens.

And it's far from the case that all illegals are hardworking. Even those who are impose costs on our society, such as crowding

[Avicenna]

out the homeless and marginally employed from housing they desperately need

[TruthBringer]

Hahaha being Pro-Palestinian now makes me an "anti-Semite". A typical battlecry of Zionists when you support Palestinian Human Rights. Boy how desperate you are!
😂😂

The fact you’re desperately trying to falsely frame me to be someone I’m not, just to attack my integrity goes to show you’ve lost the argument. It also shows how desperate you are and what a petty character you have. Insinuating that I should be investigated for a RIGHT I have (the right of having an opinion and the right to practice my freedom of speech) is a tell-tale of an actual butt-hurt narcissist who is on a smear campaign.

There is nothing “anti-US” to point out that the US did certain things that are by now publicly available and that it should own up to its mistakes & actions. Just as it’s not anti-Japan to think that Japan’s actions in Nanking were terrible and they should own up to it. Just as it’s also not anti-NL to believe my own country should own up to its colonial and slave trading past (which it already did and I’m very proud of it for doing so). Or to have a less than positive opinion about our government for the “toeslageaffaire”. So if I can point out the flaws in my own country alongside any positives without being a mindless fanboy, then I can surely point it out in other nations. Even in the military, we are humans who have the right to have our opinions and express them as long as we don’t deny orders, we don’t jeopardize a mission, and we don’t share classified information. Maybe it’s in your country, but WE never signed anything that tells us to give up on our right to freedom of speech.

So now we cleared out and debunked your false framing. It is safe to say that you are no different from those libtards who accuse anyone of homophobia or transphobia who don’t blindly lick their asses.
So take your false accusations and smear campaign attempt, shove them back up your arse where you pulled them, and kindly go to hell. I think we’re done here 😉

[TruthBringer]

@OddBeMe I'm definitely with you on this one

[TruthBringer]

As for you @Avicenna you sound insanely butthurt so much that you now hope I don't get to fly any jets simply because my world views differ from your own. You are no different than those libtards you hate. Goodluck with that black-white binary thinking. I'll sleep well knowing I'm soon going to make my dream come true alongside people who actually know me and have no issues with me having my opinions.

Have a good one, mate! May we never interact with each other again.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: Strawmen and sophistry are your stock in trade and that's nothing to be proud of.

If you actually cared about human rights for Palestinians, you would be focused on Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, both oppressive terror organizations that deliberately violate the human rights of fellow Palestinians. But you aren't. And it's hardly a secret that those who blather about Israel are motivated by anti-Semitism, which is still a problem in Europe.

You claiming I'm a fanboy of the US government shows how utterly dishonest you are (or totally clueless, if one wants to be charitable). I'm quite critical of it. Maybe you should pay attention.

But your repeated denials of reality is what's desperate here. As are your desperate attempts to avoid scrutiny for your extremism (a fighter pilot or anyone with access to sensitive equipment and facilities isn't an ordinary person). And to be lectured about "free speech" by a European is beyond hilarious- maybe you should look at the laws in nearby Ireland and the UK that are in place or have been proposed. I haven't looked at Dutch speech laws, but it wouldn't surprise me if they criminalized some speech as well.

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: You can fly jets in plenty of places outside of the US. But, as even you admit, you do need to be properly screened to be trained in the US. As I said, the adjudicator may not have any problems with your anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism, but your extreme views should be examined as part of the screening process.

You really need to look in the mirror and deal with your issues rather than accusing others of having them.

You won't be interacting with me if you don't keep responding to me.

[TruthBringer]

I'm not going to engage with you in another debate about the Israel/Palestine conflict because I already shred you a new one the last time. I sleep well knowing human rights organizations are on my side and I am on theirs to name one example. As for Hamas and your little guilt-trip attempt. Get educated:
https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0

You lost my interest the moment you started acting like an armchair psychologist yourself throwing random buzzwords like narcissism around. Seems like I did touch a nerve. Armchair psychologist tells me not to engage in armchair psychology and then proceeds to hypocritically diagnose random internet strangers with traits of personality disorders. The hypocrisy is palpable! 😂 My guy, keep hating on my profession. I smell envy. Like I said, you're no different from those idiot libtards who try to cancel people for having different views. What matters is that I know my rights and my obligations. And if I were a 'danger', then I would have been sniffed out a long time ago by the actual experts and higher ups. So keep yapping my guy.

Oh sorry, you wanted to have the last say? I'll gladly give it to you if it helps you sleep at night. Not that I'll bother read it though.
Good luck malding at anyone who doesn't share your world views. I'll blow you a kiss in mid air 😘👋

[Avicenna]

@TruthBringer: I used to like you, in part because I'm a military veteran and because I like the Dutch. But keep thinking people are jealous of you if that makes you feel better.

And if you can't handle some scrutiny, you picked the wrong profession.

[FootfetishistBoy]

I hate patriosm and nationalism. Regardless of where you go or where you live. This whole world is not even ours. We just live here. God owns the whole universe.

[OddBeMe]

What is god?

[lorenzomichael]

No but they have to understand that there not going to be treated whatever they feel is normal, because there here illegally. Does a prisoner feel they should be treated as a free person?

[OddBeMe]

Crossing a border illegally is equalevent to a prisoner?
Is running a stop sign the same as murder?

[lorenzomichael]

No there not the same. However someone who is in another country illegally should not think that they should be treated as somebody who's not. Just as a prisoner thinking they should be treated like a free person who's not in prison. That's what I meant.

[OddBeMe]

Sure but if legal immigration is stifled and your family is in danger. And on the other side of the this fence is safety, you’d illegally cross it. Don’t lie.

[imawfulatusernames]

Yes heavily. Like let people exist, this whole debate is ridiculous

[andreasderjuengere]

Not more than the dehumanization that's practiced by your bank or your tax department.

[OddBeMe]

Not sure what this means… I guess those depts do, bureaucratically.

[andreasderjuengere]

What I -somehow- mean: unless there is a direct personal interaction, all people in the world are only seen as ''objects'', ''subjects'' or ''exchangeable items''.

[OddBeMe]

Correct. As it should be on some level. Would you want our government to be such a bleeding heart cat lover that it spend all our budget on ferals? Lol

But being that people are the government- and mostly run by non partisan life long public servants- is where the empathy and sympathy get displayed on a case by case basis. And obvi we want congress to pass fair and uncruel laws, of course.

[exitseven]

No, they just don't belong here. They are being used by the democrats to affect elections.

[OddBeMe]

Who belongs here then?

[exitseven]

American citizens and others who have entered this country according to our laws.

[Anonymous]

Hell no they ain't , them motherfuckers are going to flood into the USA and that fuckin senile space case Biden ain't going to do a damn thing about it.

[OddBeMe]

And what would be the consequence? They do less crime, pay taxes on shit they buy, and help the economy.

[mommymommymommy]

If you believe there's such thing as an "lllegal immigrant", then yeah, sure

[OddBeMe]

Is there not?

[Exterminatore]

We can only hope. Yeah, I’m just taking a huge dump in the swimming pool.

[FreyaRed]

Who dehumanizes them?

[OddBeMe]

I feel we all do. They’re the other that we become afraid of, mocked in this snl sketch I love.
https://youtu.be/kG7szS15O8Q

[Anonymous]

No I'd say they have it good

[OddBeMe]

Exploited children why whites have it good?

[OddBeMe]

*by whites

[Anonymous]

its illegal. Its in the title

[OddBeMe]

So is running a stop light. All crimes are equal?

[SandyKandy]

Troll.

[Exterminatore]

Nope…. not a troll. He really is that misguided.

[OddBeMe]

@Exterminatore like a Fox…News