Do you think Genocide is being committed upon the Palestinian people by Israeli, US, UK, & European, Governments, or is under threat of Genocide?

[VIVANT]

Some key points discussed Re: Genocide ⬇️

-Professionalism vs bureaucratic politicization of UN Division of labor.

-Human rights branch of UN for prevention of genocide.

- people targeted for opposing G.

- Human rights rapporteur C. M. ordered to silence only regarding to Palestine.

- Genocidal Conduct.

-What constitutes evidence of genocide.

- Complicity in Genocide.

-Governments acting with impunity.

- Genocide check list of 10. Re: Palestine, Every single point has been checked.

-The importance & political & legal impact of people powered opposition to governments violating human rights laws.

Craig Mokhiber former (UN) human rights official, specialist in international human rights law, policy, & methodology, stepped down as director of New York office of United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Oct 2023 due to the failure of the U N to take action against “text book Genocide”

In his resignation letter, Mokhiber highlights the UN failure to prevent previous genocides against the Tutsis in Rwanda, Muslims in Bosnia, the Yazidi in Iraqi Kurdistan and the Rohingya in Myanmar & moves on to condemn US, UK & Europe for not only “refusing to meet their treaty obligations” under Geneva Conventions in addition arming Israel’s assault & providing political & diplomatic cover for it. ✍🏻 “High Commissioner we are failing again.”

“The current wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people, rooted in an ethno-nationalist colonial settler ideology, in continuation of decades of their systematic persecution and purging…. We must support the establishment of a single, democratic secular state in all of historic Palestine, with equal rights for Christians, Muslims, and Jews...”

⬆️ 1st page of Mokhiber’s resignation letter. Full 4 page letter available online if link is unsuccessful.

Craig Mokhiber resignation letter - DocumentCloud

Genocide Convention Adopted by General Assembly of UN Dec 6, 1948.
Purpose: “Never Again” ⬇️

YES. GENOCIDE is being committed against the Palestinians.

NOT YET. Palestinians are under threat of GENOCIDE.

NO. GENOCIDE is not being committed upon the Palestinians.

OTHER.

[Lliam]

Slippery, underhanded lawyers can argue about the definition of genocide. But what do you call it when there has been an intent for over 100 years, and ongoing action to achieve that intent, to rid a place with a name and defined borders of its indigenous people and steal their land and possessions?

If what happened to Armenians in the early 20th century was genocide, then what colonists did/are doing to Palestinians is most certainly genocide.

With the help of the British and later the U. S., Zionists always intended to make all of Palestine a nationalistic, racist, theocratic state. They were never, ever going to allow a Palestinian state ("two state solution") to exist in any part of Palestine.

Palestinians (Muslims, Christians and Jews living in harmony) were never consulted or even mentioned or considered when the colonial plan was formulated or put into action.

There had been civilization in Palestine. I've seen photos from the 1930s of cities with modern buildings, streets, cars and pedestrians. They could have been in the USA. Agriculture was world renown. There were sea ports and fishing fleets. It was thriving. People from around the world visited the Holy Land without fear.

The claim of "A land without a people and a people without at land", as Zionists claimed, was total bullshit.

Was what the U. S. did to Native Americans genocide or was America just defending itself? The difference was, Europeans considered Native American lifestyles primitive. They called Native Americans savages. But Palestinians were as modern as Europeans.

The U. S. simply wanted Native American land, and it was ruthless in taking it. It made Native Americans and their cultures disappear. That's exactly what happened, and is in the final stages of happening, in Palestine.

No God would sanction what the Zionist colonists are doing. God never gave Jews a free pass to break the Ten Commandments:
1. Thou shalt have no other God's before me. (money and possessions)
6. Thou shalt not kill.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
10. Thou shalt not covet.

[Lliam]

consortiumnews.com/.../

[Sevenpointfive]

unfortunately, those people that are greedy and powerful are non-religious and don't care about your god's teachings. and the torah says it's okay because they are "the chosen".

[Anonymous]

No. I don't think what's going on constitutes genocide or even a likelihood to become such. From what I can tell, it's a pretty standard war. Hamas carried out an absolutely barbaric and sadistic attack on civilians on October 7, and Israel is responding. Hamas has not surrendered and laid down arms, so the continuation of the response is 100% legitimate.

I look at it this way: During WWII, the Allied forces rained an unbelievable amount of death and destruction on Germany and Japan. That killed an incredible number of people and yet in no way constituted a genocide, because both Germany and Japan continued to be combatants and had not ceased hostilities. Furthermore, the Allied forces DELIBERATELY and strategically carpet bombed civilian targets both to reduce the capability of the Axis war machine AND to break the will of the population to continue hostilities. But so long as the Nazis were in power in Germany and until such time as they surrendered, this was a completely legitimate act. Same in Japan where Tokyo was firebombed resulting in the deaths of 80,000-130,000 people and leaving over a million people homeless. Not to mention the atomic bombing of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In each case, there is no genocide because hostilities WOULD cease upon the surrender of the combatant. This occurred in Germany and it occurred in Japan. It WOULD occur in Palestine if Hamas surrendered, but as of right now they have not.

So what IS genocide or attempted genocide? That's what happens when the killing goes on AFTER hostilities have ended and has NO endpoint in sight. Such was the case in Nazi Germany which the Jewish people faced, or in Armenia and Turkey which the Armenian people faced, or in Ukraine which the kulaks faced or in Rwanda which the Tutsi people faced, etc.

Hamas needs to surrender unconditionally. Israel has every right to demand this and to continue the attack so long as rockets continue to be fired into its territory.

[strateguy632]

good information helpful. i mean it.

[Opinion Owner]

@strateguy632 Thank you. I'm glad you found it helpful.

[VIVANT]

I agree genocide is what happens when there is no end in sight. The genocide has been ongoing against the Palestinian people since the inception of Israeli state. That’s on going.

If you do sone deep diving you will see there were no genuine peace agreements from Israel to Palestine and the constant encasement violence murder torture violence & disruption of day to day living repainting in substantiated existences, had never ended. Under occupation Children in Palestine do not grow old. They are killed or die from disease malnutrition and despair. Intentionally creating miserable unlivable conditions towards a targeted group falls under genocide.

Killing members of a group.
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. All this falls under the UN definition of genocide.

In the case of Israel, the government is directly saying they want to wipe out Palestinians either remove them physically from Palestine, giving them a change to live tho destroying their culture —which is part of genocide. Ethnically cleansing them to Sinai desert considered the “left wing position. The “right wing” position in Israel is to bomb them off the map, including nuclear bombing.

[Opinion Owner]

OR, you know--the other side could come to terms with the fact that we're not living in the time of the Ottoman Empire anymore, Israel the country IS a thing and they need to move one with their lives. I think it's pretty hard to make the case that the Palestinians are better of today than they would be had they accepted the original two state solution 75 years ago. And I think it's tough to make the case that they'll be better off 75 years from now if they continue violently "resisting" a status quo (Israel's existence) which will not go away.

They aren't the first people in the world to be displaced--rightly or wrongly. There were millions of German speaking people who lived outside of Germany but were nonetheless forced out of their homes in neighboring countries and sent to Germany after WWII. Do you know what they did? Did they demand a right of return and blow up busses and launch pogroms until they could return? No--they got on with their lives. The people of Palestine would do well to follow that example rather than repeat the colossal failure of the past 75 years.

[Jackblue]

When did the israeli government say they want to kill all the palestinians?

[Opinion Owner]

@Jackblue Agreed. That last paragraph where she wrote that is absurd. The Israeli government is has been pretty clear that they'd welcome a two state solution that came with a guarantee of peace from the other state. So if the Gazans laid down arms this would all end. We saw without a shadow of a doubt on October 7, exactly what would happen to Israel if it laid down arms. To not be able to make the moral distinction between those two cases is frankly mind-boggling to me although it would seem a vast number of people can't.

[menina]

I think genocide is already happening in Palestine. The Israeli government is the only one that can stop this, but it won't. Their desire for revenge and hatred towards the Palestinians is very strong.

[menina]

Thank you for the MHO.

[TadBehaya]

It is nothing less than a genocide. Entire north Gaza has been 'cleansed'. Meaning that there's no civilian there. They have either migrated or killed

[Jackblue]

Cities get evacuated all the time, they will return.

[TadBehaya]

@Jackblue they don't get bombed like Gaza

[Jackblue]

They are not planning on getting rid of them permanently.

[TadBehaya]

@Jackblue that's why they're bombing them? Even with those phosphorus bombs which are illegal? You gotta be kidding, mate. Israel has lost itself

[Jackblue]

They want to get rid of hamas once and for all.

[TadBehaya]

@Jackblue if hamas wasn't there, they would have wiped out the Palestinians long ago. It's Israeli forces that need to be wiped out

[Jackblue]

Hamas has never once checked Israel's forces, they attack Israel and then hide in tunnels and buildings like rats, Israel could simply bomb every building in gaza or round up the people and sell them as slaves as Muslims would do in the reverse situation, then there would be no one left to fight in Hamas however Hamas has survived because they hide behind civilians.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, so true, and GENOCIDE is being committed against the Palestinian people. I also believe the Government makes Mankind viruses to kill off population and if you notice this happens around these election years for U. S. Presidential. It happened with President Obama and now happened with President Biden also this was year that former President Trump was about to seek re-election. You know they have these vaccines, and you ask yourself which ones are safe to get. In 1976, I remember a little bit I was young, but I recalled that a bad strain of the swine flu was going around and people would get these swine flu vaccines and would end up dying, some suffered strokes yes this is all scary.

[MysticDevice]

I don't believe so. Collateral damage? Absolutely. Once war breaks out neither side is innocent.

If the eradication of Palestinians was the IDF's goal they wouldn't be using precision weapons or even bother with a ground campaign. They could level the entirety of the Gaza Strip from the air and sea with cluster and AOE (Area Of Effect) munitions.

I will never pretend that the military arm of Hamas are victems or noble and righteous in their cause.

Hamas does not speak for all Palestinians just as the Israeli government does not speak for all Israelis.

How many people in Israeli had nothing to do with any of this but were killed for it anyway, and how many Palestinians have nothing to do with terrorism but have to live under barbaric jackboot of Hamas' military wing?

This is what happens when the British Empire promises the same strip of land to two different groups and then leaves.

[abc3643]

I agree pretty much with all of this including the spirit if not the fact of the last sentence.

Britain controlled "The Mandate of Palestine" since that mandate by the League of Nations after WW I. After WW II, the United Nations proposed a two-state partition of the Mandate of Palestine; one for Jews and one for Arabs. The UN voted to support the 2-state partition. The Jews rejoiced, of course, and proclaimed Israel. The Arabs never supported the 2-state partition and promptly went to war immediately after Israel proclaimed its existence.

So, the Arabs DID have a choice to have their own state; they refused that choice and have had shit for the past 75 years because of it.

en.wikipedia.org/.../United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

The plan is formally documented as UN Resolution 181 from November 1947. You can read it in English here. Part II of the document discusses the boundaries between "The Arab State" (subpart A) and "The Jewish State" (subpart B).

documents-dds-ny.un.org/.../NR003888.pdf

This colored map at Wikipedia does a better job illustrating borders than the black and white PDF does.

[MysticDevice]

I honestly just couldn't be bothered to type all that out lol but yes. You know your history and I applaud you for it.

[Dargil]

Intentional genocide, like the Nazi's and Romans, I do not. If the Palestinian Arabs chose to live in peace, there would be no war. Of the Israelis chose to "turn the other cheek" and not resist, there would be no Israel.

You need only understand the Koranic doctrine of Taqiyya, that any negotiated peace is impossible. For the Israeli, it is Fight or Die.

[VIVANT]

Before I’d reel Jewish people were living elder to Arabs. Zionists started raping and killing torturing and imprisoning. There is no honest way to genuinely argue that it is Palestinians who prevent peace. Palatine is not occupying Israel. There is no current doctrine being followed calling for the murder of Israelis. Only for peace for Palestinians.

The UN recognizes genocide as
Killing members of a group.
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

In the case of Israel, the government is directly saying they want to wipe out Palestinians either remove them physically from Palestine, giving them a change to live tho destroying their culture —which is part of genocide. Ethnically cleansing them to Sinai desert considered the “left wing position.

The “right wing” position in Israel is to bomb them off the map, including nuclear bombing. M

Perhaps you think it is good for Israel to genocide Palestinians but it is not Palestine that puts Israel at risk. The very creation of Israel spit everyone at risk. Jewish people could Shevardnadze shared the sone instead of Zionists coming in like gangs bangers. and never stopping since.

[Juxtapose]

No.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2l3EbRiDATE

Hamas means "violence" (literally) and at the Nova festival they passed around women they were raping and shot them in the back of the head. They would rape women in front of their friends and film it, sending it to their family and other friends. They would also stuff explosives in bodies so when people would find them they would get blown up.

But since Hamas is hiding in hospitals and hiding behind civilians, we are supposed to believe they are the victims when they are typical terrorist scum? Come on.

Not to mention 30% of Palestinians voted in those fuckers and they are brutalizing the Palestinian people. My sympathies go to Palestinians who did not vote for them and they should get out. To the rest of them that support Hamas? I wish them a quick death.

[DextroShade]

These fucking people have had every chance for peace and a state of their own but they keep rejecting peace and being terrorists because they weren't offered everything. Now after decades of intifadas and terrorist attacks the Israelis have run out of patience, so these barbaric losers brought this upon themselves. It should also be noted that Netanyahu is being a lot nicer than I would be in that the IDF drops leaflets warning civilians in Gazas that the area is about to get bombed, whereas I would have just told them they have 30 days to leave before I carpeted the whole of Gaza with napalm and VX.

[VIVANT]

Dropping leaflets into the streets when people can’t go into the street bc they are being shot abducted raped tortured bombed sand even if they could safely go safely to the street they have no where to run to, this is not a warning this is corralling people into densely packed areas to make murder easier.

The “warnings” are for the benefit of the western world public opinion. To convince people that Israel is trying to be caring. people went to the “safe” places and were bombed. people stayed in their home shed were bombed. No where is safe— you are bombed or shot whether you go or do not go.

And even IF the warnings were genuine…A warning has nothing to do with genocide warning someone you aim to kill them genocide it simply has nothing to do with the definition, .

The UN defines genocide as
Killing members of a group.
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

In the case of Israel, the government is directly saying they want to wipe out Palestinians either remove them physically from Palestine, giving them a change to live tho destroying their culture —which is part of genocide. Ethnically cleansing them to Sinai desert considered the “left wing position.

The “right wing” position in Israel is to bomb them off the map, including nuclear bombing.

As for “peace deals” dig deep from different sources, eventually you will come to understand, no such deal was ever honestly offered. Put yourself in the position of the Palestinians when you consider the kinds of offers they were made, you may come to understand the situation better.

[strateguy632]

no. no genocide, the opposite, israel HELPED palestinian in gaza escape ALIVE and "not kill" arabs in israel. in fact arabs are included in israel parliament. how many jews are in egypt parliament or morocco or pakistan etc.

people here complain "nobody in north gaza" that is because THEY LIVED instead of risking a war zone.

this explains why NATIONS official PREFER israel , the accusation accused israel is false.

[BoopBoopBeep]

I've been at genocides before. You don't typically tell them they have three days to leave first.

[VIVANT]

Interesting, which genocide have you been at?

There is no “warning “ when people can not go o to the street to see the flyers, when they can not escape to anywhere safe once they see the flyers and try to flee…wherever they go or do not go they are killed tortured abducted and raped. There is no “safe” area for Palestinians are killed no matter where they go. If you speak with Palestinians you will know this. (Apparently, it’s not safe for Israeli hostage either. They too will get shot down by Israelis )

And IF the warnings were genuine and not just propaganda for the west to look upon Israel as being moral, or would still not change the status. Warnings have nothing to do with whether genocide is being committed. And again it’s odd to use this as an argument when you know they are not allowed to leave. Palestinians have been imprinted for decades.

As far as genocide the UN recognizes genocide as

—Killing members of a group.
—Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.
—Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.
—Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.
—Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

In the case of Israel, the government is directly saying they want to wipe out Palestinians either remove them physically from Palestine, giving them a change to live tho destroying their culture —which is part of genocide. Ethnically cleansing them to Sinai desert considered the “left wing position. The “right wing” position in Israel is to bomb them off the map, including nuclear bombing.

As an aside, do you think patients and babies in an ICU can do anything with a Warning? Do you think a 90year old grandmother with no legs can make use of a warning? Do you think someone who is bed ridden can be warned…, you can. Ring nothing with you and you will be bombed and shot along the way and in the “safe” areas. You are warned.

[BoopBoopBeep]

As to your first question, I'll tell you over drinks one day. That's more detail than I like having on the web.

Well, to your first point, as an American I can't imagine caring what the League of Nations... er... I mean United Nations thinks. They don't have the best track record for... well... DOING shite.

As to your last paragraph. Welp... sucks for 'em. It's war. People die. Do you not think there were grandmothers and babies at Hiroshima? Dresden? London? Tokyo?

Somebody invades, somebody fights back, somebody escalates, and it doesn't stop until one side is gone or until that side is so utterly and decidedly beaten into the ground that they know better than to rise up again. Now personally, makes no difference to me which side comes out on top, but you can take the gloves off and finish this shite now or let it drag on another 80+ years like it has been. I don't find the latter to be "more humane" than just having at it now. Besides, war is supposed to be ugly, it's supposed to suck, really hard, so maybe people will think twice before playing an international game of FAFO

[findacure4wokeness]

The Zionist Jews have taken control of the white western Countries and are using us to attack everyone. they want Palestine for themselves and they are overrunning white countries with immigrants while teaching them to hate us whites to destroy us from within. By getting us whites to attack Muslim countries they further weaken us and will also make us take the blame so we will continue to kill each other while they the instigators sit back and watch. The Zionists want to enslave us all as they believe they been chosen by god to rule over us and the non jews only exist to serve them therefor they believe they have this right to do what they do with us.

[Jackblue]

No way in heck, Jews have been suffering second class citizenship for centuries by savage Muslim oppression which continues today whenever Muslim authorities have the power to do so. After being attacked again and and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, Israel wants to wipe out Hamas, but the people of palestine are hiding them in their homes and yes hospitals while they fire at Israeli soldiers.

[Kelly6]

Yes it is genocide.

but weird part is that most countries are allowing it to happen and even encouraging it.

that new low for humans

[Jackblue]

Hamas' massacre of Israelis was genocide, if the Israelis wanted to wipe out the palestinians they could have done so decades ago.

[Kelly6]

@Jackblue go check what genocide means.

[Jackblue]

It means intent to wipe out a group, Hamas was killing pretty much every Israeli in their path, if Israel was doing that there wouldn't be any Gazans left in three days time.

[Kelly6]

@Jackblue doing,, and would be done..
are very different,
learn English

[Jackblue]

Find yourself losing an argument you seek to intimidate me by correcting my grammar eh well not gonna work. What I mean is that if Israel had been killing or kidnapping everyone in their path like Hamas did the Gazans would cease to exist as a people in three days. For centuries as a body Muslims have gone to war ruthlessly killing, raping, and enslaving other people. They only stop when they are defeated and forced to lay down their arms, then they complain about how mistreated they are, but the next opportunity they get they go back to killing and raping. There are good individual Muslims but at this point they are too few to change the culture. They cannot expect that their actions won't have any consequences. If you recruit child soldiers children get shot, if you hide in people's homes while firing at Israelies the homes get bombed, that is how it works.

[Kelly6]

@Jackblue you can think what you want to and what your church tells you to.
as a none religious i can quite see the truth.
thanks by Dr Norman flinkenstien

[hahahmm]

Was it Genocide when Palestinians tried to take over Jordan by force so Jordan called in Pakistan which eliminated Palestinians? No? Then this can't be genocide either.

[Sevenpointfive]

where where where is hamas? oh, wait, who is hamas? lets bomb someone and call them hama's leader. FAIL

[loveslongnails]

If it's not genocide yet, would it LOOK more like genocide if people were just rounded up and killed in gas chambers like during the holocaust? Does bombing them and saying it's "self-defense" make it APPEAR less genocidal? I don't see much difference at this point.

[TallAnon]

Doesn't seem like it, they just want the land, they don't seem to go around searching for them in other countries unless they're a political target.

[strateguy632]

i wish i could put screenshot in reply, israel specified the do NOT want gaza land, they specified need to de-militarize gaza, find hamas leaders and leave

[VIVANT]

They want to remove all Palestinians from the land by ethnically cleaning or by murder by continuing to bomb or by adding nuclear bombs to wipe them out quickly

[TallAnon]

If they employ nukes, the other countries will not condone it.

[AngryCarl]

That's like saying the Allies committed genocide against Germans at the end of WW2. Some Germans died yes, but we were degrading their fighting capability. We weren't herding them into gas chambers.

[Siri137]

No, of course not. That's a ridiculous accusation.

[KrakenAttackin]

I think this is war. War between two people who have no willingness to compromise. In such circumstances killing is the only answer until enough have died to reset the pressure valve, for a decade or so, when the killing begins again.

[JacksonWil]

Genocide is being committed against the Palestinians...

[Lottifan]

No way.

[Jerre]

Civilians casualties are a known fact of wars. Look at all the Japanese civilians killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[strateguy632]

by dnc president truman. dnc NEVER valued life, of Americans nor fetus nor enemy.
a republican rnc president values life would not use wide atom bomb. what other option? had but did not use!

[Jerre]

@VIVANT Thank you for the Like