Do you know these three facts about Trump?

[goaded]

In separate legal rulings, Trump has been found to have committed

• rape,
• business fraud
• insurrection.

These are not just accusations and allegations, they are legal rulings.

Rape:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-jury-finds-donald-trump-sexually-abused-e-jean-carroll-civil-suit

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-judge-trump-liable-defamation-second-e-jean-carroll-case-must-trial-damages

(Fox News appears very careful to emphasise that "Trump was found liable for sexual abuse and defamation but not of Carroll's rape claim", while avoiding reporting the judge's finding denying Trump's motion "The trial evidence of the harm to Ms. Carroll as a result of being assaulted and digitally raped supports..." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0.pdf )

Fraud:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-judge-rules-trump-judge-rules-trump-committed-fraud-while-building-real-estate-empire

Insurrection:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-remain-colorado-ballot-judge-rejects-14th-amendment-challenge-eligibility

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colorado-supreme-court-disqualifies-trump-2024-ballot

[msc545]

You kind of have a point here except that not voting doesn't get us anything and it won't get you anything, and violence is much worse obviously. We are conditioned to the idea that things can be solved through voting and yet what we've been finding is that voting doesn't always matter because the outcomes can be fairly easily corrupted and usually are in this country lately.

In regard to your conversation with my friend Goaded I tend to agree with you regarding the charges of rape. I think Trump probably did molest her to some extent, but it's very doubtful that he actually raped her. I think he was a victim of the same kind of metoo bullshit that his victimized so many men. He kept insisting that he had never even met her and I think there might be some truth in this. Even a stopped clock tells you the correct time twice a day.

[goaded]

The finding was that he digitally raped her (sexual assault under NY penal code, but colloquially rape). Didn't Trump both say she wasn't his type and misidentify a picture of her as his first wife?

[msc545]

IO think that "digital rape" really stretches the definition of rape quite unreasonably.

[goaded]

I think putting anything into someone's genitals without their consent counts.

[msc545]

If that happened. I don't think any of it did. I think she lied to make money like so many women do.

[goaded]

I think you're wrong. More importantly, so did a jury.

[msc545]

Why do you think I'm wrong?

[goaded]

files.mastodon.online/.../dc743db7ce126514.mp4

[msc545]

So? I don't think Trump could get a fair trial in this matter - any woman's word would have been believed.

[goaded]

You don't believe Trump's words, when he basically admitted to doing this kind of thing?

[Zestyassmf1997]

Yes, I do.

[goaded]

Good. Will you be voting for him?

[Zestyassmf1997]

I don’t think I’ll be voting at all. But I’ll consider it.

[goaded]

Please do vote.

[Zestyassmf1997]

I don’t think any candidates deserve my vote.

[goaded]

Not even for school board? Voting is important. Democracy is important. If everybody votes, they will vote to be able to vote. At least, I hope so.

[Zestyassmf1997]

What democracy? Neither of us is making millions of dollars per hour. Unless you’re fabulously wealthy, you have no say in things. I’m not going to legitimize this sham by voting.

[goaded]

Well, since I guess you'd vote for no more voting, that's OK.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Like I said, it wouldn’t matter how I vote because I’m not ultra-wealthy.

[goaded]

You've never heard of the idea of one voter, one vote?

[Zestyassmf1997]

Oh, I’ve heard of it. But if you think that’s how things actually work in the US, then I have news for you. You ever hear of corporate lobbying? Super PACs? How’s this for a fact: politicians have no legal obligation to tell the truth, or to make good on campaign promises?

[goaded]

Strange as it may seem; voters actually can overrule lobbyists, Super PACs etc. You just have to have faith and someone to vote for. AOC proved that. Giving up is what the lobbyists and most politicians want.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Have faith? You’ve gotta be kidding me. Faith? Faith is for spirituality. No. Government officials can and will accept bribes. And again, they have no legal obligation to vote in accordance with what their constituents want. Lobbyists and politicians want us to keep voting because it maintains the illusion that we have a choice. Once we get rid of that illusion and people see through this sham government, then they’re in real trouble. If voting worked, things would get better. But they never do. Wealthy people get wealthier, and the poor continue to suffer. What, are we to just keep voting and, “having faith”? You’re insane, or a rube, or both.

[Friendlybro79]

@Zestyassmf1997 your vote does matter. Rich people and lobbyists are counting on people like you to not show up. We have power in numbers. There are many more if us than them. If everyone felt like you, (and I understand why someone would) we would be in a worse situation because very stupid people vote and that affects me lol. So I'm here to tell you that your vote does matter. Don't let assholes win.. Do it for friendlybro if you can't do it for yourself lol.

Listen I understand it feels pointless but that's what rich and powerful want you to feel. Powerless. Don't let them win.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Rich people and lobbyists are counting on it that we keep voting. You’re never going to get change by doing the same thing over and over. Things aren’t going to get better until people realize that pulling a stupid lever isn’t going to do anything.

[Friendlybro79]

This makes zero sense. Voting is what allows change to happen. What's your alternative? You're completely defeated at 26 years (based on profile) old with your entire life ahead of you. Your logic is false and depressing

[Zestyassmf1997]

What makes no sense is doing the same thing over and over and expecting things to change. I’m not going to say what I think we should do, because that could be illegal. Voting just legitimizes all of their corruption. You people are out of your minds. You’re going to keep voting, things will get worse, and your solution will just be to vote more.

[Friendlybro79]

Ok. Well if you feel like your answer might be illegal than I just want to say there's always a better way even when you don't think so. As crappy as times are things will get better and good will win.

I know it's easy to say but try your best to stay positive and don't give up. Nothing illegal needs to happen for change to occur. I can't tell by reading your words how upset you are but it sounds like you are. If you're in a really bad funk about this stuff I get it and I wish you well. If you are consumed with bad feelings (which I don't mean to say you are just in case you are), make sure you get help. You have one life and even though I'm a stranger that can sometimes be sarcastic, I do wish you well and to be happy.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well this isn’t about me. This is about millions of people across the country who are struggling and tired of there being no end in sight to it. People who are tired of living paycheck to paycheck while our, “elected” officials make millions per year, despite only having salaries of a few hundred thousand per year. Voting might make sense if we had a meaningful choice.

[Friendlybro79]

I agree with what you're saying except not voting. It is awful that we have to many times pick between two bad options but picking the lesser of two evils is extremely important. Biden although not perfect did get things through that are helping Americans. Is it enough no but letting the GOP win isn't the answer. They lower taxes for rich and corporations and burden us with higher tax rates than billionaires. We need to vote more progressive Democrats in to help with the issues you're upset about. Corporate aka moderate democrats like Biden aren't going to raise taxes on the rich and corporations because they are his donors. That said Trump is awful and a thousand times worse than Joe. Also, it is about you. It's about you and your future. If everyone thinks like you we will be headed for a disaster that won't result in some ultimate reset that will be better for anyone. We're too big to fail. We need to adjust and evolve. If young people don't care or want to participate in democracy it will be taken away by wanna be dictators aka Trump

[Friendlybro79]

Also the economy is doing great but if you aren't investing in the market then you can't benefit from a booming economy. Like a retirement fund or mutual funds for ex. You have to find small amounts and invest

[Zestyassmf1997]

You realize that both parties were literally once one party, right? Democratic-Republican. They all go to each others weddings, and dinners. They’re all in cahoots. The notion that if we, “vote for the other guy next time, then things will be okay” is meant to keep you on the hamster wheel. The economy isn’t doing great. The stock market is overwhelmingly controlled by big money investors and does not actually represent economic strength for the vast majority of working class people. Prices are up, wages have stagnated, labor protections are still non-existent. None of that has changed under a Republican or Democrat. They just keep getting richer, keep flouting laws, and keep going to war. There’s no such thing as, “too big to fail.” I’m leaving this damned country in a few days. For good. That’s my solution for now.

[Friendlybro79]

Good luck!

[Zestyassmf1997]

Thanks man

[NYCQuestions1976]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[goaded]

Well, that's pathetic. But thanks for drawing attention to my post from a month ago.

[NYCQuestions1976]

I'm laughing at your ridiculous TDS.

[goaded]

You do know Trump did everything he's accused of, don't you?

[NYCQuestions1976]

Only according to your TDS that makes you insane.

[goaded]

No, according to judges and juries, as well.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Juries? Plural? As in more than one? Where? You're a fool. Colorado is going to be overturned 9-0. Manhattan will be overturned as well, by the New York Appellate division. Your TDS makes you dumb.

[goaded]

Two separate juries in the Carroll defamation case, all the grand juries that indicted him on all those charges, his organisation was found guilty of fraud by a jury as well.

When the cases come to trial he will be found guilty, because he clearly is. Nobody's going to overturn anything.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Grand juries are convened to decide whether or not there should be a trial, not to decide guilt or innocence. So you're wrong as usual.

No, the trials in Colorado and New York were a 7 judge panel and an individual judge, respectively. There were no juries in those trials, and they will be overturned, because the Colorado decision was 4-3 by an all- Democrat panel, and the law in the New York (Manhattan) trial was inappropriately and illegally applied.

Then after all of that, I will do what I always do: Laugh at you.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Also, no one smart and/or important cares about Carroll.

[goaded]

How would you know? You're neither smart nor important. I bet Trump cares that he has to pay out tens of millions of dollars.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@goaded I'm far smarter and more important than you, and I don't have TDS clouding my judgment. 👍

Carroll was dug up in a failed attempt to take down a political opponent, the same way Biden and Hochul dug up Mayor Adams's "victim" from 1993 when he started eviscerating both of them over their handling of the illegal immigrant issue in New York City. Wake up and smell the coffee, General Gullible.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@goaded P. S.: Adams is a Democrat.

[goaded]

One Carroll jury decided that Trump raped her (in the generally understood meaning of the word), and guilty of defaming her; another jury found he was guilty of defaming her again. To the tune of over $85 million, iirc.

Neither of us is being gullible, but you're lying.

[NYCQuestions1976]

A trial in Manhattan, with a jury from Manhattan, that's over 85% Democrats. Again, no one smart and/or important cares about this. Only those suffering from TDS like you. Also, at no point did I lie; your TDS just makes you allergic to reality.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@goaded Me, 5 days ago:

"Colorado is going to be overturned 9-0."

You, 5 days ago:

"Nobody's going to overturn anything."

Hmmm... what happened today? 🤔

[goaded]

Well done, enjoy the feeling of being right, for once!

I'm sure you'll have noticed that they didn't dispute the conclusion that he engaged in insurrection, just that the state had the right to keep him off the ballot. Another victory over states' rights.

"They did not opine on whether Mr Trump had, in fact, engaged in insurrection on 6 January 2021. They didn't discuss whether the attack on the US Capitol by the former president's supporters constituted an insurrection at all (or was a riot, as characterised by one of Mr Trump's lawyers).

The court also didn't delve into whether presidents are specifically exempt from the 14th Amendment's insurrection language, another of Mr Trump's legal arguments in challenging the Colorado decision. "
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395816

[NYCQuestions1976]

@goaded Your hands must hurt from all the straws you're grasping. Maybe you can sooth them with your tears.

[Drewtate]

Trump wasn't found guilty of rape otherwise he'd be in jail. The woman wrote a book and apparently every man she met raped her. There was no evidence.

The fraud was nothing.

The insurrection was nothing either.

[goaded]

Sure.

[Zestyassmf1997]

The rape thing was a civil suit. The fraud in question is apparently a common practice in real estate. And the insurrection thing is being appealed. OP technically told the truth, but omitted some relevant information.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 Yes, that he lost. Maybe, but still illegal (especially at the levels Trump took it to). And, yes, it's going to be appealed, but findings of fact (in this case that he engaged in insurrection) from lower courts are rarely overturned.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Right, but if you selectively enforce those laws regarding real estate business practices against political opponents, then that’s not exactly ethical or democratic. As for the appeal, we’ll wait and see. But it’s not exactly ethical or democratic to ban opposition candidates from elections.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 How do you know the laws aren't being enforced equally among people who pretend their real estate is three times its actual size? Who else has done that?

[Zestyassmf1997]

They had one of those guys from shark tank on CNN, and he admitted on television that this was a common business practice. I think he’s reasonably qualified to make that assertion.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 Oh, I'd love to see that.

[Zestyassmf1997]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=80RZs9Fhz3Y

Here you go.

[Todd9612]

All lies

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 OK, so people talk up the value of their propoerties. They don't talk up the physical dimensions, do they? The number of floors?

[Zestyassmf1997]

I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not. I’m not a real estate mogul. But he wasn’t charged with talking up the dimensions. You’re moving the goalposts now.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 Are you sure "he wasn’t charged with talking up the dimensions"? That was definitely part of the case against him.

[Zestyassmf1997]

It might have been. But it wasn’t one of the charges. Nevermind that the other party could and probably did check the measurements of the building. In fact, I think both parties came away from the deal satisfied. The complaint wasn’t even lodged by the other party. But let’s say he did misrepresent the dimensions. He did that to help misrepresent the value, which we’ve already established is probably common business practice. And again, on account of the fact that it’s common, why aren’t more entities being charged with this crime?

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 It is part of the evidence. Did you ever consider that some bank employees might have considered the fact that they stood to make millions if they pretended to believe Trump's lies? Also, how do you know no other entities aren't "being charged with this crime" or that many are committing it?

Saying my Toyota is worth $100,000 second hand is different from saying my car is a Farrari.

[Zestyassmf1997]

I mean we already had a reasonably decent source say that it’s a common practice. And you certainly don’t hear about any major real estate firms being subject to major scrutiny. It probably wouldn’t be considered commonplace if they were subject to scrutiny. Anything more?

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 Did he address that particular lie? No.

Like I said, It's one thing to claim my Toyota is worth $100,000 second hand, it's something else to say it's a Ferrari.

[Zestyassmf1997]

But your post isn’t about him saying things that are untrue. It’s about him doing things that are criminal. Unless you want to move another goalpost and update it.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 The judicial system has found that he's done something illegal, not me. You're the one moving the goalposts.

[Zestyassmf1997]

What goalposts did I move? I said that you were correct on all your claims, but simply pointed out that you withheld information that people should also hear before forming an opinion on the matter.

[Drewtate]

@Zestyassmf1997 the rape thing was basically she claimed he raped her in her book along with 20 other guys and he dared to defend himself

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well it’s a civil trial. And the court ruled how it ruled. It’s still subject to appeal. But OP is correct in that the court found him guilty. Note that civil trials have lesser standards of evidence. In a civil trial you just have to show that what you claim happened probably happened. As opposed to a criminal trial where you must show that it definitely 100% happened.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 OK, fair enough, but the additional information was not "withheld", it was simply not relevant. He has been found to have done all three of those things.

Also, "saying things that are untrue" to make money is what fraud is. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fraud

""Even in the world of high finance, this court cannot endorse a proposition that finds a misstatement of at least $812 million dollars to be 'immaterial,'" he wrote.
The judge said Trump's overvaluations included his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, his penthouse apartment in Manhattan's Trump Tower, and various office buildings and golf courses.
He took particular issue with Trump's claim that the penthouse was 30,000 square feet (2,787 square meters), nearly three times its actual size, resulting in an overvaluation of as much as $207 million.
"A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud," Engoron wrote.
The judge said Trump also grossly overvalued Mar-a-Lago, estimating it was worth as much as $612.1 million, though an assessor said its market value was no more than $27.6 million."
www.reuters.com/.../

(If anyone does pay his inflated prices, it won't be the value of the property, it will be another bribe, like the $2billion Saudi "investment" to be managed by Jared.)

[Zestyassmf1997]

Why isn’t it relevant?

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 Well, in the defamation case, it's established fact that he did it. In the fraud case, it's established fact that he committed fraud (and, while it may not be unusual for real-estate dealers to play with figures, it's also not unusual for them to be brought to trial for it, e. g. therealdeal.com/.../ ). In the insurrection case an appeal to the state supreme court has already upheld that finding of fact and found that he's therefore as ineligable to run for president as a Chinese toddler.

[Zestyassmf1997]

I didn’t dispute any of that, though. Whatever, I think people should have access to the information I provided as well, and they can decide for themselves.

[goaded]

@Zestyassmf1997 OK, I'm just pointing out what has already been proven in courts of law, quite apart from the other dozens of indictments he's facing. (by the way, @msc545's opinion is addressed to you.)

[msc545]

You conservatives need to stop trying to make excuses for Trump. Deflating the value of assets to avoid taxes and inflating it to obtain loans is illegal as hell and everyone knows that.

Stop being Trump's pimp.

[Zestyassmf1997]

@msc545 I don’t think you know what a pimp is.

[msc545]

I know exactly what a pimp is. I was looking for a more descriptive word but I think that one sort of works.

[Zestyassmf1997]

@msc545 No. A pimp is just a term for a prostitute’s boss. I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that he’s a prostitute, or I’m his boss.

[Drewtate]

@Zestyassmf1997 like hunter biden

[Zestyassmf1997]

Hunter Biden is a john.

[msc545]

@Zestyassmf1997 He is your boss, so I guess that makes you a prostitute.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Oh wow, you should be a comedy pro. I’d just like to add that even if I was a prostitute, there’s nothing wrong with that line of work.

[msc545]

@Zestyassmf1997 Do you have any intelligent response at all?

[Zestyassmf1997]

To you first calling me a pimp, being corrected on what it means, and then calling me a prostitute? Nah, man. You got me. My goose is cooked.

[msc545]

@Zestyassmf1997 your goose was cooked long before we spoke.

[exitseven]

I never could understand how somebody could be convicted for something if there is no evidence and no witnesses. Could there be some prejudice since the judge is a democrat. The DA is a democrat and the jury has been handpicked from a pool of 85% democrats? I would not pay too much attention th any of these. They will all be overturned on appeal.

[goaded]

Wrong in every detail.

[exitseven]

So the judge is not a democrat>? How about the DA is he a democrat?

[goaded]

The jury in the Carroll trial decided that Trump was guilty of digitally raping her. And that's in a state that's 40% Republican.

[exitseven]

Manhattan is where the jury was from and they voted 85% for Biden.

[goaded]

That would still include at least one Republican voter, probably two, and I think the only reason you think juries decide according to their politics is because that's what you'd do.

Glenn Kirchner has an anecdote about a jurist on Steve Bannon's trial who literally left her MAGA hat in the car every morning of the trial and really wanted to find him innocent, but accepted the evidence presented and voted to convict.

[msc545]

@exitseven So what? This is a correlation and that is all it is.

[exitseven]

@msc545 if you could see the big picture you would understand that an accusation of something that happened 30 years ago with no evidence and no witnesses all of a sudden gets pushed to the front of the court docket and that all of a sudden a Democrat DA with a record of political bias who had just weeks before visited the White House decides to prosecute the candidate who would most likely replace Joe Biden in the White House. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[msc545]

@exitseven As a matter of fact, in regard to the Carroll matter, I think that the woman lied her ass off. Trump said he had never met her and I believe him. However, he was found guilty not because anyone was a Democrat, but because he is basically a rude, unlikable asshole.

You only think that party affiliation determines legal decisions because that is what you would use to decide.

[exitseven]

@msc545 if being a rude, unlikable asshole was a crime we would be sharing a cell

[msc545]

I don't think the effect is stochastic.

[gorydetails]

You gonna be real upset after Haley gets waxed and drops out.

[goaded]

Even a third of Iowa caucus goers said Trump can’t be president if he’s convicted.

[gorydetails]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts