Will the Ukraine ever recover from the war?

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons Ukraine really couldn't afford to fight this kind of war is the dire demographic situation their sub-replacement birth rate has already left their country in.

Put simply the Ukraine has relatively few people young enough to fight.

The same population which is now being killed and driven off by the current war in devastating numbers will leave Ukraine in a dire situation regardless of the military outcome of the conflict.

Put simply the nation of the Ukraine lose big time no matter the outcome.

There comes a point when your country has to accept evils that will not kill you simply because your population is too weak to endure the cost of resistance.

Low birth rates destroy nations not merely by the slow death of old age but by invasion as well.

[RebelinSteel]

look at Germany after WW2 it was in a far worse situation, the entire country was pretty much devastated. Then at the end of the War, the allies helped the WEST Germans rebuild Germany. The Russians did fuck all for those in East Germany. Then you have Japan, again in a far worse condition than Ukraine, it also rebuilt its self and the same as Germany became manufacturing power houses.
name Russian cars that are sold globally like German or Japanese cars are, name Russian washing machines, oh sorry they just steal those from Ukraine.

if anything, Russia will be struggling to rebuild after the war, a large number of young technical people have left Russia, areas within Russia do not trust Moscow as they have been made to provide the majority of the troops so Moscow is not touched. Russia can stop the war by simply moving back to pre 2014 borders.
When there is a ceasefire, part of that will be the Europeans and US helping to rebuild Ukraine as they did with Germany and Japan. I know a fair few Ukrainians and they want to move back to their own country when it is safe and the invaders have left.

look at post 1945 (just after the war) photos of Germany and Japan, then look at the modern countries, both were far more damaged than Ukraine, there is your answer.

[Siri137]

A Russian car that is sold globally: Lada. I actually had two of them at one time, and I can say from first-hand experience that they don't deserve the negative reputation they have in the West.
Now name a British car that is sold globally. Yeah, NONE, because they don't even make cars! American cars aren't very good, they're far too large and use far too much fuel. As for German cars, they're grossly over-rated, they're not that good (but they're ridiculously expensive). Japanese cars are good, I have one now (Mitsubishi).

[RebelinSteel]

@Siri137 was this about the Uk? No. I meant cars, Lada are cars in on, y that they have four wheels. The point of my comments was that Russia will be the one struggling, whereas Ukraine will be rebuilt by EU, US and check the price of a Polo versus a lada or another American company like Ford, or oh yeah those fuel hungry American Tesla’s. At least try reasonable comments. In the global car market, cars are built in other countries and may be owned out right, Nissan have a huge plant in the Uk and produce a lot of cars for the global market, Lotus sell around the world, is there a solely owned and branded manufacturer, no, but brands are sold globally and often manufactured here. However this is about Ukraine and Russia, but yeah feel free to attack anyone else with your wild opinions.

[Siri137]

Well, at the moment Russia isn't struggling at all. Not economically, if that's what you primarily had in mind. The Russian economy is the fastest growing in all of Europe, while Western Europe struggles with shortages and blackouts due to the prohibitive cost of energy (due to the sanctions against Russia backfiring spectacularly).
The 'West' isn't going to rebuild Ukraine; they're going to bleed it dry, exploit it, and then when it has nothing left to give, they'll abandon it and move on, like the locusts they are.

[Siri137]

"Nissan have a huge plant in the UK" - Nissan is JAPANESE ya dingbat! Tesla cars are DUDS, they catch on fire and explode! Ford stands for "found on rubbish dump".

[Siri137]

Oh, and one other thing. The 'West', particularly the United States (30 trillion and counting), is deeply in debt, broke, out of cash, so where will they get the money to "rebuild Ukraine"? I guess they'll just do what they've been doing since Biden took office; just print the stuff. We'll be able to use Yank dollars as toilet paper soon, because it won't be worth anything. Weimar Republic version 2.0 is what the US will be.

[RebelinSteel]

@Veles oh wow you are a triggered person, you like this when working with others or you end up not getting a job you can hold down lol. Ref the Nissan being Japanese wow, I never realised that 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️, maybe that was why I commented on the global supply chain, ownership etc. Ford build a huge number of their cars in Europe, loads of people buy them, they even have Europe specific models and setups for European roads and not US roads. Russia is struggling, they just tell everyone they are not, the growth is pretty much down to them shoving in orders for weapons for that 3 day conflict that is not a war. The average company not doing war work is struggling with wages due to their inflation which is pointing to an overheated economy. Of course the west will help rebuild Ukraine, that is part of some of the deals linked to supporting them. Also for the US and other countries a financially secure rebuilt Ukraine means they can start repayment of debts and there is a market for US and EU goods. Anyhow good luck with holding down jobs that can handle your triggered condition, normally I avoid personal stuff but as they say, you started it.

[RebelinSteel]

@Veles and @siri137 amazing just how close your writing style is, almost like it was the same person.
Oh and @veles you are evicted.

[Asker]

German Demographics in in the early 20th century were vastly superior and younger.

Despite the large number of losses the country still had many people left of a young age.

German demographics went over the cliff in the 1960's like most of the rest of the west a generation later.

en.turkcewiki.org/.../...ny_population_pyramid.gif

Today Germany would be as devastated as the Ukraine by such a conflict, but until the 1960's Germany would have recovered.

[RebelinSteel]

The main point is that others help out even those that they have decimated, the allies flew in good and coal to help Berlin survive, that is commitment to help a country that months earlier you were bombing the shit out of. There is zero chance Russia would do the same, not with its native population left in place. While they are rebuilding Mariupol, they moved out nearly all of the native Ukrainians
www.theguardian.com/.../its-like-the-ussr-residents-on-life-in-mariupol-a-year-since-russian-occupation
There will be a lot of western organisations looking to set up in Ukraine.

[Siri137]

Holy crap. 'The Guardian' is your source. Wow. Yeah, they're not Russophobic at all, oh no.

[Siri137]

I have no idea who 'Veles' is, but I'll check out her "writing style" anyway. Even IF it's similar, it proves nothing, because any two people can be similar in their appearance, political views, writing style, etc., through sheer coincidence, given there are non-infinite combinations of the above.

[Siri137]

RebelinSteel - Oh, I'm the "triggered" one am I? LOL Sure. Whatever makes you happy :D
Reading your responses here, it's OBVIOUS who is triggered, and it's not me. And yes, I'd be willing to bet you didn't know Nissan was a Japanese car company, if everything else you've written here is any indicator of your intelligence.

[Siri137]

"Russia is struggling, they just tell everyone they are not..."

Rubbish!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n6s6Zon2kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrNkTCzMI7U

[RebelinSteel]

@Siri137 erm the Guardian and its editors have always been left of centre, plenty of its editors are anti nato and anti us. It’s just what Putin did caused a major rethink of even those on the left. Even the Socialist Worker is not fully backing Russia. Yes they slam NATO and the west but Putin also gets it socialistworker.co.uk/.../
When the Socialist Worker turns against a Russian leader you know there are problems

[Siri137]

Now you're trying to defend 'The Guardian', because you're one of those people who has yet to wake up to the reality that ALL mainstream media sources are nothing more than propaganda outlets for those who control them, and it matters not one iota whether they claim, or in fact are, on the "left", "right" or "centre" on the political spectrum. You've fallen for their lies, they have you hook, line and sinker!

[Siri137]

By the way, you know that Russia isn't a communist country anymore, don't you? Hasn't been since 1991. Just making sure you know this, because your comment that "even the Socialist Worker is not fully backing Russia" is a little strange to me, because... you know. Russia isn't a communist, or even socialist, country.

[RebelinSteel]

@Siri137 oh shut up, I’m not defending anyone, just posting something, you however have some serious mental health issues. That is very very clear, go troll someone that actually gives a flying fuck. also get booked in for therapy.

[DryGermanGuy]

@Siri137
What the hell is wrong with you? There are no blackouts or energy shortages in Western Europe. The energy prices have even returned to levels below those before the war! Are you a Kremlin bot or something?

www.zeit.de/.../energiemonitor-strompreis-gaspreis-erneuerbare-energien-ausbau

[DryGermanGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWb7a-QgNy0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X4T6OJCA6s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmUsiQrcpcQ

[Cazaputas]

They will do it if they make abortion illegal, Paraguay achieved it that way.

[Siri137]

No, definitely not, and neither will Russia by the way. Why do I say this? Simply because across the entire globe our numbers are headed for a steep decline due to dramatically falling birthrates, with an increasingly larger proportion of old people retiring and needing medical care and pensions (among other things). Many nations, like Japan, are dying out, and those who do the fighting in wars are society's most valuable people, i. e. males in their 20's.

[Asker]

Technically women @siri137 are the most valuable people in a country, but their husbands are the 2nd most valuable as women will be hard pressed to carry on well without them.

Not that I disagree at all with what you have to say. Ukraine and Russia are in a very bad situation which their war has only made worse. The best thing that could happen is if people of both countries are shocked into doing something drastic to get their birth rates up.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t know there was a war.

I had Turned the news off when the wuhan virus came from a bat but it was explained in Ukraine news and those folks on the cruise ship weren’t allowed off and everyone was hoarding toilet paper.
Whatever has happened since that I have no idea.

[lightbulb27]

Ukraine can immigrate millions of immigrants that want to find a new country. Funded by other countries, they can rebuild and create a multi mixed country not so unlike the USA, but based around Ukraine.

Mexicans, Africans, Muslims from all over, Jews, Christians, Venezualians. Why aren't' the immigrants going there. they could fight and die for their new country and rebuild it when this is all settled.

[BCA6010]

The US has already sunk more money into Ukraine than we did for the entire Marshal Plan after World War 2, adjusted for inflation. Ukraine will be a corrupt, destitute and looked down upon hellhole regardless of who's in charge tomorrow, a decade, or a century from now because everyone else needs their laundering hub.

[NamerOfStars]

Ukraine as a nation- and that's what it is; Ukraine, not "the Ukraine"- has been destroyed before. It will rebuild itself, as it has before.

The question is not whether its government will prevail, but whether its government, in enslaving its own citizens, deserves to prevail. Until the world is ready to confront that question, this is going to keep happening.

[JesseP1nk]

So Ukraine should just give up? And let russian do ethnic cleansing like they do right now in Mariupol? Look the sattelite images how many mass graves are there after Russians took that city. They do same level shit that nazis did with jews. And Americans are like should we help Ukraine?🤔 Imagine IF during WW2 americans thought should we help jews or should we let nazis gas them 🤔

[Asker]

@jessep1nk The Ukraine cannot win this war, They never could and never would.

The tactics by which they are trying to fight it, their population does not have the birth rates and numbers to endure.

Ukraine needs to make a deal to save as many Ukrainians as they can. The ideal time to do that was before Russia committed itself to an invasion. Right now the country is bleeding its most valuable resource which is its few child rearing aged people.

The Ukraine needs to save theses people to restore the Ukrainian population at any cost, without them the land is worthless.

As for the land unfortunately the Ukraine is too weak to hold on to the land against their neighbors. and failed to secure the means to hold on to it.

The Next time knowing how Russia felt about it, the Ukraine should have first secured a clear cut defensive alliance with a nuclear power capable of taking on Russia before they did something they knew Russia might go to war over like joining NATO against them.

[JesseP1nk]

Ukraine had their own nukes. But guess who pressured them to give them away FOR SECURITY.
And now those countries fail Ukraine.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Ukraine will recover 100% after this conflict when Russia will be force in to pay WAR REPARATIONS!!!

[Asker]

@alexandrubaschet08 Not even theses united States have the ability to force Russia to pay anything.

Regardless Ukraine is a people not an economy and as such money will do nothing for the Ukraine, it cannot bring back their most valuable resource, their people.

We the west can restore their economy easy enough, but that is not going to help

[Alexandrubaschet08]

When we talk about people, i agree, the pain of losing someone deer is unbearable.
But as life standards 100% Ukraine will become a some kinde of "S. Korea of East Europe". (Now i'm not dreaming at flying cars), but it will be one of the strongest economy.
AND USA HAVE ALL THE POWER TO FORCE EVEN CHINA AND RUSIA TOGEDER TO DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT.
USA army and military budget and geography are far superior and USA can face all the next 10 nations allied against them and still win.

[exitseven]

It depends. I think that Ukraine has huge deposits of oil and natural gas. Maybe if it can be developed it could finance rebuilding the country.

[Asker]

With western help I have no doubt that Ukraine's economy can recover from the conflict. A country however is not an economy but a people, and having money does not mean your people are doing well and have a bright future.

Indeed an older population with few children tends to look much better on an economic char even thou their country is diminishing.

[LimitedBenefits101]

Look, This war has actually helped ukraine refugees to live better LIFE, they are never going back to that country ever again and Ukraine will never recover from this war that started way back in 2014.

[laly520]

yes obv

just not fast