Is the Russian or Israeli military more brutal?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I know that a lot of people will answer Israel because there have been far more civilian deaths in Gaza than in Ukraine. And a trend I've seen since the war went full scale back in February 2022 is people saying that "if you think what's happening in Ukraine is bad, look at what (insert western country) did in Vietnam, Iraq, Palestine etc... because those have claimed so much more civilian lives than the Russian "Special Military Operation" did in Ukraine. But none of these commentators want to talk about why the Russian invasion claimed comparatively few civilian lives:

Because the Ukrainian army drove the Russian army away from their major population centers like Kyiv and Kharkiv and Ukrainian air defenses inflicted unsustainable losses on the Russian Air Force. But where the Russian army has been able to advance they used a similar strategy to Israel: use shells and bombs to grind everything to dust with places like Bakhmut and Avdiivka being reminiscent of Gaza. The reason that the civilian death toll has been lower in Ukraine than in Gaza is because there was a lot more space for the civilians to flee to and the Ukrainian army bought them time to do so. And if that pill is too difficult for pro-Putin commentators to swallow, they make up excuses like "Russia never wanted to occupy the whole country" or the Reason Russia hasn't is because they've been "wary of civilian casualties".

So while there are many hypocrites in the Western media who say that when the Ukrainians fight back against Russia they're "freedom fighters" and when the Palestinians fight back against Israel, they're "terrorists", they're matched by those who say that when the Palestinians fight back they're "heroes" but when the Ukrainians fight back, they're fighting a "NATO proxy war".

[jshm2]

You "know" wrong then.

The occupying state of Israel has been killing, imprisoning and torturing since 1945. The ICJ has let it off because Israel always used it's "holocaust" or "anti-Semitism" cards. But those have mostly dissolved now.

Whereas Ukraine more or less stupidly tried to sell itself out, but got caught due to it's greed and corruption.

The Ukrainians never "drove" shit. The Russians don't want Ukraine - they don't want the West to have it, is all. Hence their plan is to make the West use up it's supplies via the proxy war in Ukraine and Ukraine into unpayable debt.

Russia only needs wait Ukraine out. Whereas Israel needs to be killing, to keep up it's arms sales.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

"The Ukrainians never "drove" shit. The Russians don't want Ukraine - they don't want the West to have it, is all."

Yeah, that's why they mad a B-line straight for Kyiv and were sent packing with their tail between their legs and Russia is claiming parts of Ukraine as their own. But ah yes, the "pro-Western government = puppet regime" fallacy -_-

Ukraine's pursuing it's own policy (which is why when Stoltenberg suggested that Zelensky give up land for NATO membership he told him to stuff it) and they're doing a better job of it than we've seen out of any other country for the past 20+ years.

This isn't a proxy war, it's solidarity.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And US arms to Ukraine have done more for the Ukrainians than Iranian arms have ever done for the Palestinians.

[strateguy632]

to @jshm2 israel imprison AFTER court. but arabs abducted jews just because jew is a different race! and held jews hostage in hospitals! used for terrorism, for six months.

[jshm2]

There has never been any evidence presented to any court of Iran sales to Palestinian's. But you seem to love your blinkered glasses when it comes to Westerners supplying to Iran (Iran-Contra affair) or terrorists (Operation Cyclone) and seem to think the West has changed it's spots in Ukraine! Like I've said to you before This is Russia vs the world, via Ukraine. Which is why they were not "sent packing" but bogged down.

[jshm2]

@strateguy632 Arabs and Jews are the same race, sunny. Both are Semitic and both kill people with American supplied weapons. The problem in the area is Israel, not Jews or Arabs.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And like I said before this is Russia vs. Ukraine not Russia versus the world. The idea that this fight would be as or more difficult than a 1 vs 1 Russia versus Poland (even without the military aid and sanctions is laughable).

And before you say
"Oh you just want Poland to fight your battle for you like Ukraine", nope that's Russia.

medium.com/.../medvedev-published-new-map-ukraine-gone-01db22f613d0

As for Afghanistan/Operation cyclone, everyone seems to focus on the "Evil USA supported the terrorists just to hurt the Russians" all the while ignoring how the Red Army killed 10% of the population of Afghanistan over the course of the occupation. But there's a key difference in this situation where the Ukrainians have held their ground. I. e. by supplying arms to Ukraine the US is preventing 1/10th of Ukraine's population from being slaughtered in a bloodbath that would make Gaza look like a puddle.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And if you're going to say that Russia would be able to roll over Ukraine if they wanted to because they defeated world class armies like that of the Swedish Empire, Napoleon and Hitler, you forgot one thing: those times they had Ukraine on their side.

[strateguy632]

Pretty long to get to your point. you have too much time. write good stuff not "palestinians fight back they're "heroes" because palestinian selected the civilian as the target that is not hero it is terrorism.

russia doesn't use "similar strategy to Israel: use shells and bombs to grind everything to dust" israel just the buildings used for war infrastructure one by one.

so if you are bored, fact check the crap you hear before repeating it.

[Siri137]

The Israelis, without a doubt. The Russian Army has only killed so many civilians because it's basically incompetent, and can only move forward in Ukraine if it bombs everything that's in their way, but very few would say the same about the Israeli Army.

[strateguy632]

what is your obsession with Israel army? they don't aim at civilians in contrast to palestinian who do, and even use human *sheilds.

[EmyyWolf]

Gotta be the Russian ones.

They always speak about honor and masculinity. And harshness. Likely them. 😂

They tried to force my cousin to join the military. Or he would be deported from the country. He chose the latter.

[Berethor]

Russia is not giving warnings like Israel does, not that Palestinians are deserving that.

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/

[Lottifan]

The Palestinians elected Hamas to run Palestine for one reason only. The destruction of Israel. Let them suffer the consequences.

[Siri137]

That last image is a joke, surely. The Israelis want to wipe Gaza off the map, they want to kill everyone who lives there, including babies in prams. You really have been brainwashed by the propaganda.

[Lottifan]

@Siri137
Grow up little girl. If anyone is brainwashed it’s you.

[Siri137]

That's all you've got? Come on, show me I'm wrong about this. Oh, that's right, you can't! Pathetic!

[Berethor]

@Siri137 if Israelis want to wipe Gaza then Gaza was wiped out a long time ago.

[Siri137]

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be FREE.

[Berethor]

Islamic scum try to kill all the jews for a long time but jews are would not allow that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

[Lottifan]

@Siri137
Where did you learn your ignorance from? Your parents as brainwashed as you?

[Siri137]

@Berethor You do of course realise, don't you, that many Palestinians, like the Lebanese, are not all Muslim. No, I guess you didn't.
And wow. You have to go all the way back to 1929 to find an example to "prove" your point. :D

[Siri137]

Go away Lotti! GAG doesn't welcome genocidal maniacs like you.

[Lottifan]

@Siri137
Is that the best you can do?

[Taniisokay]

Israel is fake ass state. You are pro genocide ass. You will meet your kind in the hell fire. If even if you don't believe in God you will still end up in hell with those MONSTERS.

[Berethor]

@Siri137 Palestinians are at least 99% Muslim, what you talking about? as for Lebanese, yea many of the Christians was fighting on Israel's side, so yea it's about Religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

[Siri137]

No, it isn't, but in your case I see no point in trying to convince you you're wrong. You're just too thick for that.

[Siri137]

Lottifan, kiss my ass. You'll like it, it tastes like strawberry.
Oh, and death to Israel inshallah!

[Berethor]

@Taniisokay Arab Palestine is fake, never contry like that, but Jews lived in Isreal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David

[Taniisokay]

@Berethor you are smart taking note from wikipedia 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Lottifan]

@Siri137
Allah and you can kiss my butt.

[Taniisokay]

@lottifan wait till you gone.. you haven't created yourself damn ass. You are pathetic ass indeed.

[Berethor]

@Taniisokay only that it's also from the bible that you as muslim never read. :)

[Siri137]

@Berethor Wikipedia is your source. Wow. Because they're never, you know, ever wrong about anything. ;)

[Siri137]

Lottifan, do you like marshmallows? I ask, because where you're going you'll be roasting them. The flames get quite high down there, but don't worry, you'll have your good genocidal Israelis for company :*

[Taniisokay]

@Berethor you never read Quran. Don't make religious stuff. You are pathetic ass indeed for support Israel fake ass state. You will die and join them in hell fire. Fuck Israel and anyone who supports it.

[Berethor]

@Siri137 and what are your sources, islamic lies? there is also that good site. :)

www.thereligionofpeace.com/.../WWMD.aspx

[Siri137]

@Berethor The land that is known as Palestine was inhabited LONG before "God's Chosen" (what a joke) arrived and started butchering the locals. You know, the Canaanites, Jebusites, Amalekites, and all the other "ites" the Jews murdered because they wanted their land. Read your Old Testament, it's all in there. When it comes to genocide, no one does it better than the Israelis.

[Taniisokay]

@Berethor avoiding the topic by attacking Islam religion. What I was expecting from pro genocide ass 😂😂😂😂😂

[Lottifan]

@Taniisokay
What does your precious Quran teach?
A) go forth and murder as many Jews and Christians and you’ll become a martyr and have 72 precious virgins to play with.
B) Muslims want world domination.
C) dress your women like postboxes.
D) live like parasites in every country you go to.

[Taniisokay]

@lottifan don't avoid the topic. Israel is TERRORIST state. World criminals!!!

[Siri137]

@Berethor I'm actually not a Muslim, but of course someone like you would just assume that if I used a couple of Arabic terms, because... all Muslims are Arabs and all Arabs Muslim, in your tiny little world.
Although I'm not a Muslim I do nevertheless support the side in this conflict that deserves such support, simply because I'm not a complete psychopath like you are. I believe in freedom and justice, whereas the Israelis believe in Lebensraum and the Final Solution to the Palestinian Problem.
Isn't that right Heydrich?

[Taniisokay]

@Siri137 they are dumb ass people. Make it a religion issue. They are attacking Islam religion as they got nothing to defend against Israel crimes. Pathetic ass MONSTERS. Disgusting pro genocide ass.

[Siri137]

Lottifan - actually, no, the Quran doesn't mention 72 virgins, and I know this because unlike you I've actually read it!
"Muslims want world domination" - Perhaps some do, but we can safely assume that most don't, simply because they want to be left alone in peace, but they can't do that because the Yanks and Jews are always murdering them.

[Lottifan]

@Taniisokay
Typical brainwashed Muslim mentality.
99%of the trouble in the world is due to Muslims.

[Siri137]

Right, because Muslims control finance, the military, Hollywood, the media, the U. S. government... oh wait, no they don't, the Jews do. How many U. S. politicians have dual citizenship? At least half perhaps? Why do they all bow down and worship that devil Netanyahu?

[DryGermanGuy]

Those two war scenarios (strictly urban warfare vs. large territorial invasion) can’t be compared. Against the training and professionalism of the IDF the Russian forces have always been a medieval horde of looters, rapists and murderers.

[exitseven]

I would say the Israeli army. Russia army is a lot bigger and they have nukes but the Israilis are tough. I knew a guy from Israel who was ex military. He did not look like much but you got the impression he could kill you with his bare hands.

[strateguy632]

truth, they are trained even without weapons. but israel doesn't aim at civilians.
it arranges tent city and evacuations to keep arabs ALIVE. neither brutality nor genocide either.

[Taniisokay]

This SHOULDN'T be a competition. PALESTINE DESERVES THEIR LAND.

[Lottifan]

@Taniisokay
The Palestinians deserve all they get.

[Taniisokay]

@Lottifan Israel is a fake state and world knows that. They are killing innocent unarmed civilians. Shame on you for defending that fake ass state

[Lottifan]

@Taniisokay
Good joke.
Who taught you such rubbish.
Your parents?

[Taniisokay]

@Lottifan leaves my parents alone they are gone. Fuck Israel 😍

[Lottifan]

@Taniisokay
boo hoo.

[strateguy632]

to @Taniisokay , "their land"? palestinian NEVER governed any land. even check bias wikipedia!
no land is palestinian land, ever.

[DrPepper12]

Both are atrocious criminal terrorist organizations. Hard to say

[strateguy632]

terrorist aim at civilians but israel aims at the rocket launchers and armed terrorists.