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In terms of war, people should be angry at the governments and armies involved and the people supporting them. In the case of Muslim/Jewish people, their religion isn't at fault and any attack on someone solely because of their religion is discrimination and a hate crime. The thing about Israel is that they've almost politicised the Holocaust and Judaism to support Zionism. You CAN always criticise a government for wrongdoing without actually hating their religion/race/ethnicity. Right now, the West also criticise Russia, are we anti-Russian for doing so? If we criticise China and their long list of human rights abuses, are we hating Chinese people or just criticising a GOVERNMENT who are doing evil? People like to conflate antisemitism with criticising Israel, which is where the problem lays, no one is hating on Jewish people as a whole, we are criticising their settler colony. Are Jewish people who are anti-zionists anti-semitic? Because many Jewish people are highly critical of Israel's crimes. Zionism has been around for years, but in its modern form in the last century or so, Jewish people were ONLY given their 'homeland' because Europe and America were racist and wanted them out of their own countries. Except obviously now, Middle Eastern land has been continuously occupied by Europeans and Americans who say their right is stronger than an indigenous Palestinian. If you are conflating a country with a religion, that IS a problem. When people were criticising Qatar during the World Cup, it wasn't about religion. When people criticise India for their corruption and religious discrimination, it isn't about religion. It is, and should be, about being able to speak out about war crimes.
I watched a video on Israelis and Palestinians debating over this, and one point that struck out to me is, an Israeli man who was so critical of Palestine, his grandparents were from Poland whilst a Palestinian's man's ancestors had been in Palestine for centuries - what kind of claim is that? My parents left their home country because of civil war only 30ish years ago, their claim to return to their homes is valid, but I have no claim to that country or land, my grandchildren cannot go and say this was my family's land 100 years ago, give it back. The world doesn't work like that, but somewhat that's what happened for Israel, when there are MILLIONS who have been impacted by colonialism, war, conquest, forced immigration - why don't they get their homes back? Now imagine that but 2000 years old, how can Jewish people suddenly claim a historical connection to Palestine? And they claim that every Jewish person has the right to citizenship, when they've grown up in America or Britain their whole lives, how is that even possible?
No group of people has a RIGHT to a land based on a 2000 year old claim, especially when that group has not properly occupied that land for centuries. Can Native Americans, who have been exploited and abused only in the last 300 years, claim back all of America? Can the 10million+ Africans who were forcibly taken and enslaved return and claim the land they came from? - It doesn't work like that, governments and land and countries are always changing. Your claim to land doesn't come above someone else's when they are more indigenous.
The Europeans who split and divided the Middle East didn't think when they did this - how could they suddenly give land to a group of people of a different religion when there were already PEOPLE THERE? And Jewish people were already living in the Middle East for centuries as well, in relative coexistence. Israel is a colonial creation.
Onto the current conflict. Israel have been killing, stealing land, exploiting and oppressing for decades, it can be no surprise that the oppressed are fighting back. It can and will happen anywhere. Gaza was described as an open air prison, it was monitored 24/7 yet Hamas were able to break out and attack mainland Israel so easily? The festival was moved to the location a few days before as well, I think Israel knew war was going to break out, and they allowed Hamas to take the first step to have the West's backing.
The killing of civilians will always be horrible, that is a war crime, that is murder. Rape is one of the worst crimes you can commit. Killing CHILDREN is one of the worst things you can do. Both sides have done so, but the world only pay attention to Hamas' killing - what about what Israel have done and are doing? Just yesterday I saw news about a baby born an orphan, her family were all killed in an airstrike and the baby was saved through c-section out of her DEAD MOTHER. Children are starving, they are being raped and abused, they are imprisoned, they are struck down in supposedly safe zones, hospitals and refugee camps have become places of massacres, people are shot down escaping war zones or waiting for food, they have no electricity or aid because Israel is blocking everything, doctors and journalists are being targeted. And when foreign aid workers were deliberately targeted, the West called it an unfortunate accident.
Israel ARE committing a genocide right now, they have the intent to destroy Palestinians. And for the people who deny the genocide: 1) there can be no denying that some kind of ethnic cleansing is happening, how is that any better than genocide, will it only be genocide once almost all Palestinians are killed? and 2) the Holocaust is also denied by some conspiracies, MANY genocides have been denied, the Armenian Genocide is still being denied by Turkey over 100 years later, what will it take for people to support the lives of innocent children?
I was born in the UK, I have no experience of war. If my home and country were taken by a foreign invader, if my land was stolen and I was caged in, if my family were killed and oppressed, if my ancestors were forced out 70 years ago, I would also support the only people fighting for MY people's freedom. I don't understand how people can't see it in that way, all these organisations labelled as criminals or terrorists by the West are someone's ONLY chance of survival.
In terms of Iran, Israel attacked their embassy, and Iran retaliated, I thought Israel were all for 'self defence'? If it was a white country's (aka Israel) embassy which was attacked, the attacker's nation would have already been bombed down. The West only care about themselves, they are supporting Israel for some forsaken reason, not because they care about Jewish people's 'homeland' but because of their own selfish economic and political reasons. They don't care about brown and black lives, it has been proven time and time again. Almost all problems in brown and black countries now have emerged as a result of colonialism, the West divide and weaken these countries, when they go against them, they go in and destabilise them.
I'll assume you do, in which case please explain to me how hamas fighters killed 1200 people in a couple of hours, when Israel have superior weaponry, and if by your understanding trying to commit genocide, they can only manage 30,000 in 6 months.
I put it to you, IF Israel wanted to commit genocide, Iran would have been nuked the same day as hamas attacked it, and the war in gaza would have been over in a matter of days.
@TommyMountainFigure That would have been the same as Israel wanting to commit suicide.
@TommyMountainFigure Did I say you said either of those things? No.
And what they're doing is obviously not "the minimal amount to survive hamas/iran/ etc etc attacks". (There wouldn't have been any Iranian attacks if they hadn't attacked a consulate.)
@TommyMountainFigure You mean, rather: since I called out your misrepresentations of what I said, you don't want to defend your positions.
I'm sure nobody in Gaza has been terrorised by their cities being raised and Israeli "settlers" claiming the land. Especially the parts with sea views.
"Genocide was coined to mean, and is generally used in law to mean, the destruction of an ethnic group as such (as a group). This is the case whether it is done by killing of all members of the group or other means, such as dispersing the group."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genocide
@TommyMountainFigure And you did it again: "You don't get to call Israel a genocidal terrorist organisation". I didn't. I called their current government that. It's a democracy, they can change.
@TommyMountainFigure yes israel do have superior firepower which is why we should be questioning exactly HOW Hamas killed 1200 people, we should be questioning where they got their weapons, how they managed to launch an attack from essentially an open air prison, and how many ACTUALLY died from Hamas and how many were killed by the IDF - and 30k people dying within 6 months is insanely high, including 14k children - and why are we questioning why they've 'ONLY' killed 30k if they have genocidal intent, will you wait for the death toll to hit 100k before thinking okay MAYBE this is wrong - genocide doesn't happen in one day, it's long a drawn out process, it's rare for it to happen quickly, it's a systemic process especially in the 21st century with the world's attention on them, it's in the Middle East so will always have the West's attention and powerhold
I hate wars wish they would end
Me too
I see adverts about Gaza and it makes me sad
Same. I also see videos of how college students are treating Jewish students and it's cult like and terrible... 😞 and our current president is supporting those hateful people... It's crazy
Omg that’s sooo bad 😞
Thanks for the MHO ☺️
At first I didn't know what to think. I downloaded the top 5-6 history books on the topic. Haven't finished them. They're all way too many pages but I would like to go deep on the topic.
So far I'm pro israel. The history seems pretty clear from what I've read.
I've seen a lot of pro Palestinian arguments lying about the history or usually just straight up ignoring it. Which is strange to me.
A major part of the pro palatine side comes from a leftist political lens that basically says that the palestinians were pushed out of their homes by jews.
However what they are talking about is land being bought, and tenant farmers having to leave because the land bought would no longer be used for farming.
So these Palestinian tenant farmers had to leave their homes because jews bought up the land.
This is standard property rights though. The landlord of these farms sold the land. The tenant farmers have to leave if they're not going to be employed there anymore. It's basic free market stuff.
So the idea that the palestinians are oppressed and that jews have run a campaign of de-homing them is based on lies. There's endless leftist lies to sift through.
That's how I see it so far. But who knows there's so much to read still.
There was also a fair amount of terrorism by the future Israelis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehi_operations
Israeli settlers today aren't just peacefully buying up land, either.
Warfare in an urban environment is about as close to hell on earth as any civilian can ever be in. I have sympathy for anybody caught in such a situation.
Now, do I support Israel’s right to self-defense? Absolutely. Do I have compassion for people still trapped in Gaza by HamAss? Yes. I do. Do I think “supporting Palestine” is the same thing as “supporting HamAss?” Yes. I do. Their fates and causes are intertwined. Why? HamAss is not the first or only ideation of a free Palestine movement. When people cannot tell me who Yasir Arafat is, who the PLO, or PLFP, Abu Nidal, and others are I realize they are often just puppets repeating talking points but have no idea what they are really talking about. Palestinian groups have been attacking Israel since 1948. Their terrorist arms can change their name but they have never been shut down by Palestine which I’d can tacit endorsement. It’s that simple.
It's never "that simple". Before 1948, who flooded Palestine with "their people"? Who was bombing and shooting the authorities in Palestine? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehi_operations
That's only about 100 years ago. Ireland's Catholics and Protestants have been fighting off and on for hundreds of years, but they've come to a negotiated solution that's holding up pretty well so far, a generation later.
"they have never been shut down by Palestine" That's because there's practically no democracy in Palestine, and hasn't been for nearly 20 years, and now there's probably not a single Palestinian who hasn't lost an innocent family member to Israeli attacks. Why Hamas still has support is a total mystery.
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While I support Israel in general I'm loyal to my own country first.
In the case of the Jewish Students attacked by Pro Hamas Leftist mob that took over Columbia, I'd be suing the University for not protecting the Jewish Students or controlling the Pro Hamas Leftist mob.
As Trump has said while with the former prime minister of Japan at Trump tower, when a college like columbia closes instead of doing anything about the issue plaguing it's campus, that shows that columbia is allowing three pro Hamas Leftist mobs to win. They don't allow for colleges to close to appease mobs in Japan. They make things work.
your picture is awkward. for the question.
even pro palestinian shouldn't be doing the stuff happening now. anyone who supports those pro palestine is evil. and exposed the real intention under the camouflage called pro palestinian.
disclaimer, i am aware israel is defense and #hamas CONTINUES even yesterday to fire shoot deadly explosive rockets into israel. so how can israel stop? it is like surrendered.
Because it happened on Columbia University campus it's somehow the end now? Hamas supporters literally murdered a Jew in his 60s by hitting him in the back of the head with a blunt object like a rabbit at at a street protest last November in Los Angeles.
The SAVAVAGES of Hamas started this last October, including murdering a bunch of kids at a rave concert, and then found it fun to hide behind civilians and launch rockets. At this point, Israel needs its own Air Marshal Harris, and if they saturation bombed Gaza, RAF style 1942-1945, I would not shed many tears:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Harris
I'll be very surprised at any American who would choose to support hamas, seeing as iran hamas heutis etc, have in common, a Charter calling for the destruction of America, which is no secret as they are very open about it!
Don’t waste your time TommyMountianFigure. Their cup is already full. There’s no room for anything else in there.
@Flatmanlewis You are right. I felt compelled to try though!
Seems people don't understand it is the occupying state of Israel, and NOT Hamas, that is in the war crime court.
If a cop torches your neighbourhood hoping to catch a criminal, you don't praise the cop, you fucking lambast the idiot.
But people seem to think Israel must be "supported" for doing so. Daft cunts.
How on Earth is college students starting a brawl over the expansion of a war in another country that has nothing to do with him "THE END for Biden"?
Maybe watch the video and find out? Or watch the video and refute the reasonings in the video's comments. Or just don't do anything. 🤷🏻♂️ I really don't care
How about you people actually SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, instead of hiding behind Youtube links that you don't actually tell people about, leaving those of us using EME noncompliant browsers totally in the dark?
Everyone deserves to be safe and protected when they go to university, whether Jewish or not. This is a matter of moral human civilization and not a matter of only Jewish societal interest.
pro Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization. There is only one response.
I find it hilarious when the left eats itself.
I'm anti war and anti killing innoncent people from both sides!
Ofc my country comes 1st, we have suffered a lot and we had taken so much from some other countries!
The closest option is pro-Palastine: I'm pro-people. Not genocidal terrorist organisations like Hamas and the present Israeli government.
Two far right governments fighting each other - honestly I kind of hope the both lose.
Nope. Socialism is a far left ideology. Socialist aim to eliminate Christianity and Judaism, not religion. They often utilize atheist in their religious war. Atheism sprung out of the French revolution as the "Cult of Reason". It was the "National Religion" of France which displace Catholicism. They lopped off the heads of hundreds of clergymen. The Cult of Reason was rooted in Gnostism, which is what Sufi Islam is rooted in, and which is very closely related to Satanism in ideological beliefs. Religions that are part of that grouping of part of the left hand path and politically extreme left wing. In contrast Christianity and Judaism follow a right hand path religious philosophy and politically tend to be right wing.
If you understand philosophy it's very plainly obvious, but even if you don't have that depth of knowledge all you have to do is pay attention to the usual suspects. Whenever there are abortion bans, who sues the state? The Church of Satan. Who's flags do Democrats wave in political protest? The Nazi Ukrainian flag, the Islamic Socialist Palestinian flag, and various ANTIFA flags which openly have Satanic symbols and Nazi symbols on them... It's right out in the open for everyone to see.
@patois I understand your self esteem relies on believing all brown people are of the left but tough shit. They are far right religious nationalists. Maybe just stop being a worthless scumbag in real life instead of getting mad about people on the internet who won't play make believe with you?
Nazis are Socialists that literally committed genocide against Christians and Jews. Even your own bullshit doesn't line up with your other bullshit. You think Religious Nationalism is far right, so you're anti-religion, which is exactly what the Nazis were. You can't even keep your own narrative straight Nazi.
We've already established that the Nazis were not religious nationalists and they genocide both Jews and Christians. You can't even keep your story straight. Thus by your own standards the Nazis are far left. You just can't hold yourself to your own standards because you have no integrity.
Guess who else genocided Christians and Jews... French Atheist (Cult of Reason) carry out genocide against the church in the French revolution using the Guillotine in public executions and the Muslims carried out Genocide against both the Christians in crusades and the Iberian Peninsula as and drove the Israelites out from their homeland slaughtering and enslaving many... Clearly they are both anti-religious state, thus left wing groups by your own standards. I guess they are all far left like I previously told you. That is if we hold you to your own standards.
@patois you do know I'm not reading any of that, right.. I don't know how i always manage to attract far right scumbags to puke up all their brainwashing in my replies but I never give you bottomfeeders any more attention than it takes to tell you I'm not going to give you any attention. You aren't an exception.
@patois oh, I see your confusion. You see, when someone, such as yourself, is showing symptoms of severe brain damage I only read one or two sentences from their replies to see if their symptoms have subsided. Vomiting is a major symptom of head injuries, you see, and I don't want to waste time sifting through pages of your puke just to confirm that you are, if fact, brain damaged. So I'll read one or two sentences. And so naturally if you keep your replies to about that length I'll read the whole thing. But if you have pages of puke and you're desperately trying to find someone to dump it all on, I'm not your dad or psychologist. You can go find one of those to bother.
@patois hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. It's not a "moral." I simply prefer not to waste much time giving attention to what worthless ragetards have to say. I wouldn't expect other people to agree and don't criticism people who believe the opposite - I simply believe their path towards getting good you scumbags to see reason ultimately leads to a dead end. But I could be wrong.
It's actually one of the best historic documents humanity has. Regardless of if you follow the religious doctrine contained within it or not, it does document many events during that time period which has been repeatedly validated by archaeological evidence. But like I said, you're an uneducated moron and you wouldn't know anything about that. You can't even read.
If you could read, I'd say that would come pretty close to being a miracle because you are definitely brain dead. You are aware there is a religion called Christianity right? It is the largest religion in the world. Those people share a common history. That history has much of it's early origins documented in the Bible and associated church documents. There is archaeological evidence that confirms the existence of many historic figures and events in Egypt, Moab, Aram-Damascus, the northern Kingdom of Israel, the southern Kingdom of Judah, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, etc. You repeating magic magic magic, doesn't actually address the Bible or the history that surrounds it. It's just an example of you having an irrational panic attack.
I know you're not going to read. You can't. That's why you lean left wing politically. You don't have the skill to actually read information, digest it, and do follow up research. If you did, you would have already read the Bible and other religious books. You would have read archaeological academic papers on the subject to see if anything in said books has been validated with evidence. This is the sort of thing, people with at least average intelligence do. You being mentally retarded, are incapable of actually carrying out basic research to understand topics.
I don’t think there ever should have been an Israeli state is my position.
The Arab majority living in what became “Israel” never signed onto it.
My position? Thousand of miles away, fortunately.
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