In terms of war, people should be angry at the governments and armies involved and the people supporting them. In the case of Muslim/Jewish people, their religion isn't at fault and any attack on someone solely because of their religion is discrimination and a hate crime. The thing about Israel is that they've almost politicised the Holocaust and Judaism to support Zionism. You CAN always criticise a government for wrongdoing without actually hating their religion/race/ethnicity. Right now, the West also criticise Russia, are we anti-Russian for doing so? If we criticise China and their long list of human rights abuses, are we hating Chinese people or just criticising a GOVERNMENT who are doing evil? People like to conflate antisemitism with criticising Israel, which is where the problem lays, no one is hating on Jewish people as a whole, we are criticising their settler colony. Are Jewish people who are anti-zionists anti-semitic? Because many Jewish people are highly critical of Israel's crimes. Zionism has been around for years, but in its modern form in the last century or so, Jewish people were ONLY given their 'homeland' because Europe and America were racist and wanted them out of their own countries. Except obviously now, Middle Eastern land has been continuously occupied by Europeans and Americans who say their right is stronger than an indigenous Palestinian. If you are conflating a country with a religion, that IS a problem. When people were criticising Qatar during the World Cup, it wasn't about religion. When people criticise India for their corruption and religious discrimination, it isn't about religion. It is, and should be, about being able to speak out about war crimes.
I watched a video on Israelis and Palestinians debating over this, and one point that struck out to me is, an Israeli man who was so critical of Palestine, his grandparents were from Poland whilst a Palestinian's man's ancestors had been in Palestine for centuries - what kind of claim is that? My parents left their home country because of civil war only 30ish years ago, their claim to return to their homes is valid, but I have no claim to that country or land, my grandchildren cannot go and say this was my family's land 100 years ago, give it back. The world doesn't work like that, but somewhat that's what happened for Israel, when there are MILLIONS who have been impacted by colonialism, war, conquest, forced immigration - why don't they get their homes back? Now imagine that but 2000 years old, how can Jewish people suddenly claim a historical connection to Palestine? And they claim that every Jewish person has the right to citizenship, when they've grown up in America or Britain their whole lives, how is that even possible?
No group of people has a RIGHT to a land based on a 2000 year old claim, especially when that group has not properly occupied that land for centuries. Can Native Americans, who have been exploited and abused only in the last 300 years, claim back all of America? Can the 10million+ Africans who were forcibly taken and enslaved return and claim the land they came from? - It doesn't work like that, governments and land and countries are always changing. Your claim to land doesn't come above someone else's when they are more indigenous.
The Europeans who split and divided the Middle East didn't think when they did this - how could they suddenly give land to a group of people of a different religion when there were already PEOPLE THERE? And Jewish people were already living in the Middle East for centuries as well, in relative coexistence. Israel is a colonial creation.
I hate wars wish they would end
At first I didn't know what to think. I downloaded the top 5-6 history books on the topic. Haven't finished them. They're all way too many pages but I would like to go deep on the topic.
So far I'm pro israel. The history seems pretty clear from what I've read.
I've seen a lot of pro Palestinian arguments lying about the history or usually just straight up ignoring it. Which is strange to me.
A major part of the pro palatine side comes from a leftist political lens that basically says that the palestinians were pushed out of their homes by jews.
However what they are talking about is land being bought, and tenant farmers having to leave because the land bought would no longer be used for farming.
So these Palestinian tenant farmers had to leave their homes because jews bought up the land.
This is standard property rights though. The landlord of these farms sold the land. The tenant farmers have to leave if they're not going to be employed there anymore. It's basic free market stuff.
So the idea that the palestinians are oppressed and that jews have run a campaign of de-homing them is based on lies. There's endless leftist lies to sift through.
That's how I see it so far. But who knows there's so much to read still.
Warfare in an urban environment is about as close to hell on earth as any civilian can ever be in. I have sympathy for anybody caught in such a situation.
Now, do I support Israel’s right to self-defense? Absolutely. Do I have compassion for people still trapped in Gaza by HamAss? Yes. I do. Do I think “supporting Palestine” is the same thing as “supporting HamAss?” Yes. I do. Their fates and causes are intertwined. Why? HamAss is not the first or only ideation of a free Palestine movement. When people cannot tell me who Yasir Arafat is, who the PLO, or PLFP, Abu Nidal, and others are I realize they are often just puppets repeating talking points but have no idea what they are really talking about. Palestinian groups have been attacking Israel since 1948. Their terrorist arms can change their name but they have never been shut down by Palestine which I’d can tacit endorsement. It’s that simple.
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While I support Israel in general I'm loyal to my own country first.
In the case of the Jewish Students attacked by Pro Hamas Leftist mob that took over Columbia, I'd be suing the University for not protecting the Jewish Students or controlling the Pro Hamas Leftist mob.
your picture is awkward. for the question.
even pro palestinian shouldn't be doing the stuff happening now. anyone who supports those pro palestine is evil. and exposed the real intention under the camouflage called pro palestinian.
disclaimer, i am aware israel is defense and #hamas CONTINUES even yesterday to fire shoot deadly explosive rockets into israel. so how can israel stop? it is like surrendered.
Because it happened on Columbia University campus it's somehow the end now? Hamas supporters literally murdered a Jew in his 60s by hitting him in the back of the head with a blunt object like a rabbit at at a street protest last November in Los Angeles.
The SAVAVAGES of Hamas started this last October, including murdering a bunch of kids at a rave concert, and then found it fun to hide behind civilians and launch rockets. At this point, Israel needs its own Air Marshal Harris, and if they saturation bombed Gaza, RAF style 1942-1945, I would not shed many tears:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Harris
I'll be very surprised at any American who would choose to support hamas, seeing as iran hamas heutis etc, have in common, a Charter calling for the destruction of America, which is no secret as they are very open about it!
Seems people don't understand it is the occupying state of Israel, and NOT Hamas, that is in the war crime court.
If a cop torches your neighbourhood hoping to catch a criminal, you don't praise the cop, you fucking lambast the idiot.
But people seem to think Israel must be "supported" for doing so. Daft cunts.
How on Earth is college students starting a brawl over the expansion of a war in another country that has nothing to do with him "THE END for Biden"?
Everyone deserves to be safe and protected when they go to university, whether Jewish or not. This is a matter of moral human civilization and not a matter of only Jewish societal interest.
pro Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization. There is only one response.
I find it hilarious when the left eats itself.
I'm anti war and anti killing innoncent people from both sides!
Ofc my country comes 1st, we have suffered a lot and we had taken so much from some other countries!
The closest option is pro-Palastine: I'm pro-people. Not genocidal terrorist organisations like Hamas and the present Israeli government.
Two far right governments fighting each other - honestly I kind of hope the both lose.
I don’t think there ever should have been an Israeli state is my position.
The Arab majority living in what became “Israel” never signed onto it.
My position? Thousand of miles away, fortunately.
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