Why is it so hard for people to understand you can both hate Putin and oppose the Ukraine war?

[Anonymous]

I, myself find it ridiculous, if you oppose the Ukraine war for what ever reason, your automatically a Putin supporter.

I've done my research and came to the conclusion that the Ukraine war, was a war that was the result of years NATO expansion, with attempts to make Ukraine a NATO member the last straw. Is Russia innocent in all of this? Of course not, but neither is Ukraine, NATO and the US who is being influenced by defense contractors who are profiting off the war. It's my opinion the (based on research) war would have never happened had we just left Ukraine alone to be neutral which is what Russia wanted from the start.

[Syntosi]

Security agencies have different classifications for things. For example, if they employ someone to do something then they are acting like an agent. However if they are useful in other ways, such as swallowing and propagating propaganda then they are considered as an "asset". You are a Russian asset because you believe in their baseless propaganda surrounding the Ukraine war.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do with USA. If anything this is Ukraine wanting closer ties to the EU, not USA. The line about Ukraine being supported by USA and whatnot is a line pushed by Putin to shift the conversation away from Ukrainians wanting freedom to decide their own future to instead be about them being manipulated by the "evil west".

In reality the support from the EU and USA came after the Ukrainians had already achieved results by themselves in removing Putins puppet president and influence. Not saying they would not have done something if they had known, but no one expected the Ukrainians to fight so hard and get results so quickly which caught both the EU and USA off guard.

Putin was the first to react and he started the hostilities. Only then did the support from the EU and USA even begin to arrive.

But that is all kind of besides the point really. I dont know where you are from but unless you are from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea then it is in your best interest that Putin loses his war. This is just pure self interest really, everyone benefits from someone who does not play fair or peaceful being removed from international politics. Just having cheaper oil and gas would be a massive help for the international markets not to mention a stabilization in the worlds food markets and simply just having people stop dying for stupid reasons.

The fact remains that Putin will never allow the countries within his sphere of influence, such as Belarus or Ukraine, to have freedom and he intends to annex them either diplomatically or militarily. If you dont stop him here then there will be another war.. and another war.. and another war.. Like the last time this happened, or the time before that.. or the time before that..

This is just a continuation of Putin doing the same thing over and over again. Like in Georgia, Transnistria or Chechnya. Its a bit naive to believe that you have a choice in being an outsider in this. You dont.

[Asker]

Invasion has everything to do with the US, we provoked the war then pushed Ukraine to fight because fighting is more profitable to defense contractors than remaining neutral.
https://youtu.be/7j5alqfsxio?si=IJ5027ElNXI4xPt3

[Syntosi]

This is exactly what I mean. That video is just full of people spouting Russian propaganda, its not actually true.

Some highlights from the video:
Did Putin have a choice? Yes. He could just have.. not invaded Ukraine.

The WMD argument is pointless since NATO already has nukes on Russias border and it has nothing to do with Ukraine. Furthermore its not like distance matters all that much when it comes to nukes since both sides can circle their nukes around the world before hitting their targets if they really wanted to.

"NATO agreed it would not expand eastward" Is complete bullshit. No such agreement was ever made even though Putin claims he got a "verbal agreement" which is disputed and not relevant anyways for various reasons. Again, this is Russian propaganda that no one else believes in. Everyone who believes in this got their talking points from the same source, Putin.

"The west took over Ukraines government in 2014". Again, complete nonsense. The Revolution of Dignity in 2014 was a direct result of the current Prime Minister going against the wishes of the people and the overwhelming vote of the Ukrainian parliament to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union. When the president goes completely against the will of the people and the elected government to instead align closer with Russia (because he was a corrupted puppet of Russia) then it makes perfect sense to have a revolution to depose the prime minister. Also following the revolution they had a democratic election which elected Zelenskyy.

"No WMD in Iraq but Nazis in Ukraine". Nazis are not WMD and Nazism is common in all Slavic nations, including Russia with a prime example being the Wagner mercenaries.

[normalice]

The Ukraine War is 100% Putins doing so if you oppose putin you oppose the Ukraine invasion by default. Pretending Ukraine or the US or NATO is in any way responsible is Russian propaganda.

[Asker]

No it wasn't, we we provoked the war by pushing NATO onto Russians border. War could have been completely avoided had Ukraine agreed to remain neutral, but no we pushed Ukraine to fight because it's more profitable for defense contractors.
https://youtu.be/aC0nRkAH8ZM?si=abtMfqBNiWTVBAq5

[normalice]

So, we stayed outside Russias border all the same but you still want to repeat the Russian propaganda that they were provoked into invading ukraine? Sounds the typical "look what you made me do" nonsense of a Russia propagandist.

[Asker]

Actually we didn't, we've been pushing to make Ukraine a NATO member since 2014 when we carried out a CIA backed coup d'etat. Victoria Nuland is partly responsible for the 2013 coup. It's not Russian propaganda when it's true. If Putin said water was wet, you'd be smearing everyone a Russian propagandists for saying water is wet.
truthout.org/.../

[normalice]

Why say "we" when you are obviously pro Russia.

[Asker]

I say we as in US cause I'm a US citizen Regertard. Again I'm anti-war not pro Russian. Your just as stupid as the people who accused everyone of being pro Iraq for being anti-war, tho it wouldn't surprise me if you were one of those people who were accusing everyone of being pro Iraq for opposing the Iraq war.

[normalice]

Sure, next you'll be telling me RFK is a serious candidate and not at all coordinating with the Trump campaign 😅

[Asker]

Why would I think RFK is a serious candidate? No 3rd party has a chance in hell of becoming president. Secondly why would I support a someone who supports Israel and their genocide in Gaza? Again, your a regertard if you think I support RFK who is a anti vaxer nut.

[normalice]

Uh huh. You're not fooling anyone blue anon 😂

[Asker]

Just as I thought a regertard living in La La land. You have no proof that I support RFK, because I don't, but you're a regertard for believing it.

[normalice]

You are pro russia. Of course you are a Trump supporter. But the best way for a Russian Trump supporter to help Trump is to pretend to be an RFK supporter.

[Asker]

Again your a regertard for thinking I'm a Trump supporter, and have no proof other than your little fantasies. Further more your a regertard for not comprehending I'm anti-war and not pro Russian. How many innocent Ukrainian's have to die before you sick post shit feel validated in your hatred of Putin? My hatred for Putin doesn't need validation.

[normalice]

Maybe "regertard" translates to something meaningful in russian? I don't know what you're trying to say, though..

[Asker]

The word regertard came directly from you, it's your way of calling people retarded without calling them retarded. Don't like being called regertard do yea?

[normalice]

This is my first time hearing the word, actually 🤷

[Asker]

Actually it's not, your just denying you ever used it.

[normalice]

Oh! You must be talking about the word "ragetard." Yeah, thats mine. But it doesn't mean retard. Rather, it means someone who has been so plugged in to right wing media openly telling them to get "their blood boiling" over the made up nonsesne they are being told for so long that it has caused them physical brain damage. But the far right admins on this site kept freezing my account for using it so I don't anymore.

But yeah, I've never seen the word "regertard" until this conversation. Probably someone on your russian troll farm just wrote it down wrong. My guess is that Lorendo guy, assuming that isn't just you or one of your alts.

[Asker]

Yes, I'm referring to the word ragtard, just misspelled it as regertard, which was my mistake, and has nothing to doe with a Russian troll farm, no matter how much you claim. In order you part of a Russian troll farm, you have to be Russian, which I'm 0% Russian, actually 75% German and, 15% English and 10% French to be exact.

[normalice]

I have no reason to believe you, though 🤷

[Asker]

Of course not, your a left wing troll spewing nonsense labels at everyone you don't agree with.

[Agape93]

They understand it's just pointless. It's like hosting a rapist and opposing those trying to stop an attack.

[Agape93]

Hating** fucking phone

[Asker]

It's not pointless, because innocent Ukrainian's are being slaughtered in a preventable war we provoked. Yes it was preventable, Russia and Ukraine agreed to a peace deal mediated by Turkey and Israel, that would have prevented the war in exchange for Ukraine remaining neutral, we couldn't have that, so we sent Boris Johnson over to sabotage the agreement and talked Ukraine into fighting because war is more profitable than peace. Russia should have never invaded, but at the same time US and NATO should have never provoked the war and sabotage any peace agreement. A better analogy, would be some someone taunting an aggressive, then getting mad at the dog for fighting back.

[Agape93]

The only aggressor, is Russia. Ukraine wanted to pull away from Russia, join the EU and NATO. Russia didn't want that, they wanted Ukraine as a buffer zone between them and the west. When that wasn't happening they invaded and blamed the west and interference.

[Asker]

Really both sides are the aggressors. The war really started back in 2014 when he US carried out CIA backed coup d'etat that resulted in a civil war and the deaths of over 14,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbas region. It's no secret Victoria Nuland was involved in the distarous coup. War was never about protecting Ukraine, was about defense contractors profiting off a horrible situation.
truthout.org/.../

[Agape93]

You really are this dumb aren't you?

[Astarlessnightsky]

Usually its the people who are oppose the war are exactly those who hate putin.

[Syntosi]

That makes literally no sense since there are no reasons to oppose the war outside of believing Russian propaganda that is orchestrated by Putin.

[Asker]

@Syntosi It's not Russian propaganda to believe US and NATO provoked the war, because it's true. Both Russia and Ukraine agreed to a peace deal mediated by Turkey and Israel that would have prevented the war in exchange for Ukraine remaining neutral.

[Syntosi]

Yes it is propaganda to believe that USA and NATO provoked the war. As for preventing the war, Ukraine already made Russia (and USA) sign a contract to protect the country in exchange for giving USA all of the Soviet nukes that was left inherited from the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Russia can't be negotiated with as long as Putin is leading it. Simply put, their words are worthless and their signature means nothing. Russia will do what it wants, whenever it wants, regardless of what it has agreed to previously.

[Syntosi]

Just re-read my last message. Should be Ukraine giving Russia all of their nukes, not USA obviously. I guess I am getting more sloppy after getting a cold.

[Astarlessnightsky]

"Oppose the war" is weirdly worded as there is no one besides warlords who earn money by supplying weapons who are for the war.

So everyone is against the war, but Putin lovers are believing the war is rightous and good so they are more for the war than people who are Putin haters.

[jahaims]

Most people are simple minded