Emmanuel Macron has developed the notion of "European strategic autonomy" to refer to the European Union's ability to act independently on the world stage, particularly in the fields of defense, technology, energy and supply chains. It is an approach designed to reduce Europe's dependence on the USA and other powers to ensure its own security and stability, while maintaining strong transatlantic cooperation.
Is it time for Europeans to create their own strategic autonomy?
YES! I think that was kinda Trump I's point that Europe shouldn't coast on the US security guarantee. The world has changed since 1945 when the US was the last man standing. Clearly Europe should have their own military industrial complex and sort of do but maybe every country needs to get a slice of the pie.
And YES to all the other aspects also. Greater European involvement in the Pacific would be quite welcome and France has significant involvement in Africa.
I don't know whether this is true or false. Maybe you can tell me. At around Brexit, I read an assertion that the EU relied on UK diplomacy on it's behalf. Dunno how much truth in that.
I would think for Europe to have strategic autonomy it would to need to have a common diplomacy rather than a series of supporting diplomacy from France, Germany, Spain ec etc. Way above my pay grade.
Even though Europe isn't, doesn't strategic autonomy necessitate it needs to act as if it was a single country? In at least military procurement and diplomacy?
This would mean that Europe would move away from being USAs ally and the reasoning for this is because USA is becoming unreliable from their point of view.
Not sure you want to celebrate this if you care about America and its position as a super power.
@Syntosi Not convinced. There is a difference between being an an ally and being a client. Arguably for most of post WW2 Europe has been more a client than an ally.
Even if you want to argue that Europe was more of a client, which I dont agree with, that would still mean that USA loses authority and influence around the world. Not to mention the direct support USA would have received for having said clients.
Client state relationships heavily favor the leading party which would be USA.
@Syntosi We are probably more in agreement than we might seem at this moment.
Sure if the US says XYZ and XYZ is so, then it is a superior position to be in. It is also an expensive position and at some point guns vs butter counts. Russia, China, Iran etc can, with a more compliant population, be more on the guns side of the ledger than any Western country can be.
I won't have my numbers very right but after WW2, US was 50% of world GDP so it could afford to pick up the tab. Now the US is 25% and less able to. A lot of Americans seem to want more focus on butter. Reasonably.
As a citizen of an allied country, I consider that we need to chip in to sustain the American lead world order that we all like & benefit from so much. It is important the US's role is sustainable above all.
Of equal importance is that we should have enough sting in our own right to dissuade aggression from China to us (Australia). It behooves every country to be more difficult than it is worth. Classic peace by strength.
They are almost exactly the same thing. The difference is the cost of interoperability with an ally.
An additional benefit of allies pulling their weight more is they have different security needs and will develop hardware. US AWACS are clapped out and Australian Wedgetail AWACS are better. As I understand it, the US will acquire some variant of Wedgetail AWACS. It is advantageous to acquire semi off the shelf hardware.
In my view though it is going to be more economic warfare and that is a more equal playing field given China's export driven economy. You really do need like minded allies putting similar tariffs in place.
Yes, good for US to be able to have supreme authority - till it can't. That tends to have an economic end - see Rise and Fall of Empires which gives this thesis; convincingly I think. The UK was very conscious the US would overtake it in the 19th century and managed it very well.
@Avicenna NATO is what is propping US up as a super power. I am not here to give you a 101 class in geopolitics but suffice to say that USA does not do deals or maintain partnerships that goes against their personal benefit. The fact that you actually believe that is a sign of your intelligence, or lack thereof.
@RavVid Its important to recognize where USA's power actually comes from. Its not the land or the people or the things built in USA that makes it the best country in the world. Its the position it has in the world that is keeping the gravy train rolling. More specifically, USA is a military super power as opposed to China for example that is trying to become an economic super power.
USA's prosperity comes from its military and its alliances. That is why the military budget is so insane and why USA keeps meddling around the world such as in the middle east. There is not really a choice here. Either USA keeps doing this, or it gives up on its position of privilege.
The idea of moving over more towards "butter" and become more isolationist makes sense on a surface level, hence why so many normal people believe this is a good idea but the world is more complicated than that. USA is a rich country with a lot of benefits, but its not a super power by itself. Giving up the position of "world police" or whatever you want to call it would mean having to scale down on everything. Less growth, less wealth, less luxuries etc..
As for countries like China, Russia etc.. They are nonfactors really. Russia has stagnated for too long and its economy and military has basically lost to Ukraine which is a 3rd world country. China looks scary on the surface but is built upon a massive demographic and economic bubble which will ruin them within our realistic lifetimes. They both made the wrong bets for the future as opposed to USA which just focused on economic growth.
The fact that USA's peacetime military can stomp both China and Russia at the same time says a lot about how the world has developed since WW2.
@Syntosi: You‘re arrogant and clueless and have absolutely nothing to back up your specious assertions. You couldn’t give a three year old a 101 class in geopolitics let alone someone who served in NATO units and has lived over half his life in Europe.
Your claim that the US doesn’t do things that go against it’s national interests is utter BS, and that’s the vague basis for your ridiculous claim that the US is being propped up by its dependencies.
Economic power is the basis is being a superpower, and military power is derived from economic power. And economic power is drained when a lot of money is borrowed to defend other countries and to do it wastefully, which the US military certainly does.
So at the end of the day, you try to sound authoritative, but you’re an idiot who doesn’t know what the hell he‘s talking about. NATO is ossified, and no longer benefits the US as a whole. Nor has it for over 30 years.
@Avicenna Yes. Yes. I am arrogant and clueless and you definitely know what you are talking about.
Go away and continue living in your basic ass worldview where you think the worlds leading super power works against its own best interests in negotiations when that is absolutely retarded.
Sure any country or group of countries should do that. The more dependent you are the less autonomy you have. Switzerland has a strong defense, we're not completely independent when it comes to energy but still ahead of a lot of other countries. When it comes to technology and innovation Switzerland is also one of the leading countries in the world. There are some fields that they can't compete in because of a lack of money or infrastructure like microchip manufacturing or other tech fields but there's still plenty of fields where they are doing great. I thought the whole point of the EU was to bundle resources to adress these kinds of problems like technology development that needs a lot of innitial investment. So I hope they do continue that.
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Indeed we do. We also need to look into how we could financially secure ourselves, with other countries than the US, stop export/import as much as possible and focus somewhere else in the future. Might give a couple of rough years but tbh, think it could be possible.
Simply let the US be the US, with no outside forces, making it on their own, without business deals with outside countries, no diplomacy, just Americans with all their military, that they'll call home from all over the world, leaving them with nothing to do since Trump will be ending ALL wars in January. Two of them with ONE phone call. Can't wait.
EU doesn't need to fight on seas 10000 kilometer away from Europe, we just need a deterrent army against Russia. Russia isn't that strong, even demoralized and poor Ukraine fed with pipette with modern NATO weapons and munition was capable to stop their advance. With air superiority and massive ability to deep strike Russian assets 500km inside Russian mainland, Putin would be screwed.
Europe is weak militarily. Many are cheap and pacifists such as the Germans. A strong enough military that can make them independent of the US won’t happen because that will take a huge amount of money which again is a problem because mostly Europe is cheap in defense. Crow all you want but it won’t happen, at least not voluntarily.
The US may pack up and go home which would then force Europe to expend a lot more to protect themselves. But more likely they will do what Trump wants which is to spend more and keep their alliance with the US won’t happen. But as an American, I do not trust Europe to help us.
Within the past decade, a poll was taken in Germany asking whether they’d fight if GERMANY was attacked. A majority of respondents said they wouldn’t. Tells you all you need to know.
Europeans are still provincial despite the EU. Look at the Far Right tendencies in Europe akin to those here in the US. They are based in provincialism and not wanting to change because of foreigners living either in country or because they are neighbors.
Ohhh yeah. It should have happened a long time ago. My heart breaks for any european citizen who suffers because of this, but their governments have been so abusive over the years. They don't give a shit about peace or helping anyone. They wanted the US to foot the bill while they pretend to be good people.
You want collectivism, peace, solidarity and human rights? Wonderful, so do I. Put your money where your mouth is.
We need to prepare for war with the USA should they switch sides and join Russia. It starts with a multi country economic union yo ensure free and easy movement of goods and labour across borders. I'm surprised no ones thought of it.
Id like to see it. Being a puppet of USA and being too reliant on USA isn't the way of Europe's sovereignty. Europe is at risk of being "rug pulled" like so and then what? It happened with the energy resources and it will happen with the military too
I dont expect the biggest NATO allies to join in its defense if war and destruction comes to Europe
Europe in general has been a basket case for years , naturally this is a good idea , just far far too late , the coordination of same is another issue.
That implies the EU has the competency for that, they don't because they want to overregulate everything and since we aren't a democracy there is nothing we can do about it.
My answer to your question is yes. Europe as a whole has a collective GDP about the same as that of the U. S. It's definitely time for Europe to take responsibility for its defense.
@jjj101010: The UK definitely can, and IIRC, it does spend enough on defense. But it should be leading a European alliance rather than being a junior partner to the US in NATO, which is obsolete.
Well seeing as the UK left the EU and this is a political thing, this is something they should be sorting out themselves. We pick our own battles and support our allies with theirs.
@jjj101010: It’s Europe, and the UK is part of Europe, whereas we‘re not. NATO is a relic of the Cold War and no longer serves US interests. The UK still has an interest in the defense of its geographic region.
I also have German citizenship, and think Germany needs to invest more in its military.
Wars r like Pringles, once u pop u can’t stop. U do a couple then next thing u know, u have an empire and everyone wants a railway and a justice system!
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