Should incels have less rights than normal people?

[Anonymous]

They're a danger to society and no one likes them, why should they have the same rights?

Yes

No

[CheeseMonster]

No one should have less rights. If nobody likes you that's your own problem. If you're a danger to other people then something can be done to protect them, but it should still interfere with your rights as minimally as reasonably possible.

The goal should be to necessarily protect rights for everyone, not to artificially limit them for certain groups.

[Asker]

How do we protect the entirety of society from incels? Wouldn't that limit the rights of everyone else instead when it's way easier to impose curfew/parole/house arrest on the incels?

[Asker]

For this problem what are the protections you have in mind?

[CheeseMonster]

In what way do all other people need to be protected from all people who are incels? Would something like curfew or parole even be effective to provide that protection? I doubt it. I think any big blanket rights violations like that would cause far more problems than it could ever solve.

[Asker]

Put incels under house arrest and watch lists. Arm bands or something so people know they're an incel if they're out in public

[CheeseMonster]

How would that protect anyone?

[Asker]

Do you think that sex offender watch lists where everyone in the neighborhood is notified when a convicted sex offender moves in are useless? These systems ALREADY EXIST and no one has an issue with it.

Being able to look people up and see if they were a sexual abuser or cheater would help people avoid intermingling and making smart choices whether to interact or not.

[Asker]

If you're going to do the nihilistic approach and say that sexual abuse happens and the laws do nothing and. There nothing we can do from a legal perspective to protect the public from sexual abuse, then what is your solution

[CheeseMonster]

Exactly. Convicted predators are already on watchlists and registries. So what would be the point in making one for incels? If they're actually predators, they should already be on a list. So what's the point of a whole new one? What would that benefit for anyone?

[Asker]

The benefit is so that incels don't blend in to society and insidiously weasel their way into getting into position to sexual abuse people. If Elliot Rodgers was on a Incel list, he would have never been able to pull off the murders.

The issue is that being an incel isn't crime when it SHOULD be. The benefit is that people can be aware when incels move or look up people and see if they're incels before intermingling with them, I don't see how you don't see the benefit of being able to avoid incels altogether instead of having to figure it out down the road when they attack you or women in your friend group.

[CheeseMonster]

Even if they were on the same type of registry as sex offenders, that wouldn't mean you can just avoid them. Most people still can't avoid sex offenders even if they are aware of who is one. You still encounter them every day in public (where you don't know their name, and even if you did know you can't just stop going to the grocery store or bank), and for many people one likely even works or lives nearby or is even related to you. You can quit your job, or they could be fired, but unless you or them has the money to move you're stuck there and unless the rest of your family agrees to also cut them off they will still be at family events or even in your own house if it's an immediate relative like a parent or sibling who still live in the family home.

More importantly, someone would have to be charged, tried, and convicted of being an incel before they would be able to be put on that list in the first place. How would that work? What qualifies as an incel, and how would you get evidence to support that claim? It must be beyond reasonable doubt, or you would have a lot of non-incels be put on the list too, which wouldn't be fair or helpful. Even if you are right your solution is still wildly inefficient and ineffective.

[Asker]

Okay so are you in favor of getting rid of current sex offender watch lists since they are useless? You refuse to be on board with having an incel one for the same reason? This is what I don't understand you people are so against adding laws and regulations AGAINST Incels because you think it won't work, but you're all for the SAME policies for sex offenders which you also claim doesn't work, why do anything then?

[Asker]

Be CLEAR, do you think sex offender watch lists are inefficient and ineffective? Yes or no

[CheeseMonster]

They are not useless at all, they are just not good for the purpose YOU want. I think sex offender registry is good and helpful, but it can only do so much. You think it is some magical fix all that will protect everyone from predators. That's just not true. It helps people be aware of who could be dangerous around them, and it helps keep predators aware that they can be caught and held accountable. It's a good incentive for cautious behavior for everyone. It does not, however, magically prevent crime or protect victims. It's just a list. Adding a second list will do literally nothing. We already have a list, it does all a list can do.

Now do you have any other suggestion for something that could actually protect people from incels who are actually dangerous, that we aren't already doing? Or even how we would go about identifying and convicting incels in the first place?

[Asker]

No I never said it was magical solution I said it would help people make informed decisions in who they interact with. I NEVER said it was 100% Fix anything. If I did, show me where.

I suggested the list for the SAME purposes of the sex offender list which is to provide something to help people stay safe and aware of sex offender so and in this case Incels in their area. Against I never said the will get rid of all incels and 100% protect everyone from them. You misread everything I said and attacked me over it

[CheeseMonster]

Again, if you know iflt won't fix things, and you know we already have it in place for actually dangerous people... what is the point of making one for incels? If the incels are dangerous then they're already on the existing list. So what purpose would another one serve?

[Asker]

Would you be against a neo Nazi watchlist?

[CheeseMonster]

How would an incel watch list be different from a sex offender list? How would someone be identified as an incel, what evidence is needed for them to be added to the list?

A neo nazi is obviously different from a sex offender (not mutually exclusive, but clearly distinct). You have never given me any details or definition of what you think an incel is, what danger they pose which would make them different from just any other sex offender.

[Asker]

You're not making any sense. The reasoning why you're against incel watchlists applies to sex offender watch lists.

[Asker]

Are sex offender watchlists useful, yes or no?

[CheeseMonster]

What would the difference be between the two lists? I already said sex offender list can be helpful, but you have never said what will incel list do that sex offender list doesn't already do by itself? The way it looks the incel list is totally useless because it won't accomplish what you want, and the things it will accomplish are redundant (they are already being accomplished by the sex list). It would change absolutely nothing—unless it is different criteria in some way, which you have yet to explain. So... care to explain the difference?

[Asker]

A sex offender list will enable people to avoid intermingling with and hiring known and reported sex offenders as well as letting the public know when one is moving in their area.

An incel list will help people avoid intermingling with and hiring known Incels as well as letting the public know when one is moving in their area.

Yes it's possible there would be some overlap, but known Incels that the public is aware of would be less likely to be able to commit those crimes. They can and should be banned from owning weapons as well.

[Asker]

The sex offender list is for sex offenders the Incel list is for Incels , that seems obvious

[CheeseMonster]

Oh. I assumed the incel list would only be for dangerous incels, aka, ones who would be on the sex offender list already. You want to put people on a list who haven't done anything wrong? Why? All the potential benefits of a list are because the people on it are high risk re-offenders. If it's a friend of people who haven't even offended in the first place, then none of those benefits apply. That's a whole other kind of useless. And in that case, how would you even qualify who goes on the list? If you're not using actual convictions to measure, then what? What makes someone proved and convicted to be an incel? Is it even possible to prove something like that in a court of law?

[CheeseMonster]

(If it's instead* people who haven't even offended in the first place)

[Asker]

People post about their encounters with Incels all the time. It can be a community contributed list. At first only women should be allowed to report and have Incels listed as Incels tend to be men and harass women so reports from men wouldn't be as credible.

Dating apps can have a feature where Incels who harass them get their chats added to the watchlist report so we can see their behavior

[Asker]

I haven't heard of a harmless Incel by the way. Just because screaming at and calling for women to all be enslaved isn't a crime, doesn't mean they're harmless. They're scary demented people

[CheeseMonster]

So all it would take to get someone added to a list akin to the sex offender registry would just be someone posting something about you? That's all? Sorry, no, that's a very bad idea for obvious reasons.

[Asker]

Women would report incels so that people are aware of their shitty behavior. I don't see the issues with that

[Asker]

Would you buy a car without checking its accident history? Would you hire a baby sitter without knowing their criminal past? I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who has a history of being an incel

[CheeseMonster]

Again, crimes have to be proven and convicted. Accidents aren't just reported, they are also documented for proof. Someone doesn't just say something, there has to be proof for those things to be on your history. So what would that proof be for being an incel? How would it be qualified whether someone actually is an incel or not, to justify putting it on their public record?

[Asker]

Can you identify an incel?

[CheeseMonster]

No, I can't. I'm not familiar with the term and I don't know anyone who is. I assume you have a clear idea of what an incel is? So can you tell me? Just the very basics, I dont need like an Oxford definition or anything. Like a sex offender is someone who committed a serious sex crime like a flasher or a pedo. An incel is someone who...

[DrPepper12]

Stop using the term Incel. It's just wrong. They are "voluntary celibates" full of misogyny, cowardice & projection.

They could get laid but would rather play on PS5 in moms basement scarfing flaming hot Doritos and forgetting to wash their hands and burning their shrimp dick as they jerk off to discord convo pity parties.

[Asker]

Sure then should those people lose rights since they pose a danger to broader society?

[Asker]

Like if it was legal, it would be fun to be at the crap out of those losers. The parents would also be able to remove them from the home to save on costs if there weren't laws compelling them to harbor people who fit the description.

[Billlewis]

Damn... that's about as well as I've ever heard this condition described. Well stated.

[Anonymous]

I agree. incels are homicidal towards women. But a lot of people use incel and loner synonymously when referring to incel. Calling lonely man an incel is insult to his intelligence because he's just struggling and isn't hateful, bitter and promoting hatred of women. Loners are usually peaceful aren't looking to cause problems.

We dont want loners who are just struggling with loneliness to get tangled up with incels who are homicidal and hateful. Same thing with the Femcls who hate promote hatred against men.

Incel and Femcls promote hate and use their loneliness for their reasons to do it, so people who are legitimately suffering and don't promoted hate get looped in with them. We should make sure we make a distinction between before you do anything.

[Asker]

Can't they just explain they're not incels? I don't think this mistake is made often at all, it's when someone demonstrates their hatred and violent tendencies when they're called an incel.

[Opinion Owner]

I meet a woman who called her brother and incel and I talked to him and he was just a chill guy. I've seen it happen a few times where someone slanders someone for being an incel and they don't have any violent rage.

I mean it's slander I am concerned about.

[Asker]

I mean maybe you're an incel and running defence for him. She's his sister and probably knows him better than you. For what reason would she lie?

[Anonymous]

what rights do you intend to strip from a group that has nothing left to lose?

[Asker]

They should lose all constitutional rights and not be recognized as human.

[Opinion Owner]

and what's that supposed to do to them?

[Asker]

Victims can retaliate against cheaters as they see fit.

[Opinion Owner]

so if a woman cheats on her man, he's allowed to retaliate as he sees fit?

[Asker]

Yes and vice versa

[Asker]

Everyone who gets cheated on says this, yet when it's asked here people act as if it's Insanity to be upset at being cheated on

[Asker]

Do you enjoy being cheated on?

[Opinion Owner]

sure but what does that have to do with incels?

[Abbycado]

Nope, but anons should.

[Asker]

Is that a joke, or are you being serious?

If you're being serious can you explain to the letter of the policy what you would propose?

[SmokinAces2000]

Self hatred?

[Asker]

Please answer the question or I'll just report for nonsense and off topic.