a pregnant woman wants to have an abortion but there are no doctors left and no one else is willing to step up to perform the abortion
when I say absolutely no one, I mean absolutely NO ONE
should someone be FORCED to use their body to perform an abortion?
I believe no one should be forced to perform an abortion..
At the same time, I think life is valuable from the very beginning, n in my pov abortion is in most cases, a very selfish n irresponsible act..
Some people enjoy sexual intimacy but then try to run away from the consequences..
That said, it’s a different story if a woman must have an abortion due to serious medical issues that threaten her life or the health of the baby..
In those cases, the decision is understandable n necessary..
I respect that everyone’s choices can be different, but I believe they should always be made in a responsible n ethical way protecting both the unborn child n supporting the mother, without coercing anyone to act against their conscience.. 🧐🧐
OK first let's assume abortion is legal in the area. Let's also assume abortion is only carried out by those with relevant training, training they willingly undertook. We can therefore conclude they took a job in an abortion clinic because they have no religious objections.
Thus anyone refusing to perform an abortion on one particular woman without a good medical reason would be guilty of professional misconduct and struck off. Should that woman suffer complications due to that then she would be entitled to sue.
so bodily autonomy for the doctor doesn't matter?
You willingly restrict your choices by pledging the Hippocratic Oath to become a doctor. It's about helping people. So yes, some people have less autonomy by choice! Every human has the choice, for that matter, but doctors already choose when becoming medical practitioners, not when they need to do an abortion to save the mother. It doesn't change the fact they had a choice.
@msmissydc so someone should be forced to perform an abortion? just say you believe yes
Perhaps you'd like hospitals to have a big sign up listing people the doctors won't treat. I'm sure we can all guess who you'd want on it. But the world doesn't work that way does it?
read my original question again. there are no doctors left
Why? Were they all executed in an anti-science purge led by RFK Jr?
@Danzigdawson nope. they all left the profession and no one is here to replace them
I dont think that doctors should be allowed to deny service based on personal beliefs for the same reason that I dont believe that police should be able to decide if they want to arrest a criminal or not based on their personal beliefs.
Nothing wrong with having strong personal beliefs but if you do then you are not suited for these kinds of jobs and should instead get employed elsewhere.
it doesn't have to strictly be a doctor. all the doctors have quit here and no one is willing to step up just like cops have quit en masse during the BLM riots
That is basically a scenario where the government has failed and the rule of law and society no longer applies so what people ought to do or not also does not apply.
In other words, without society to provide basic functions such as healthcare we revert back to the laws of the jungle and whoever is strongest makes the new rules.
yeah people can do whatever they want in this scenario. their body their choice or do you not believe in that?
When I say that they can do what they want, I mean it in the "I can force you to do what I want using the threat of violence" kind of "freedom". If the person holding the gun is pro choice then it would be pro choice, if they are pro life then it is anti life. Any concept of "right" or "wrong" is irrelevant.
so you prioritize life over choice then?
well that's too bad because choice comes first in your worldview
No, it's her problem ultimately. Aside from that I doubt you'd be able to find anyone competent enough to do it if the doctors were gone.
Opinion
5Opinion
So y’all remember how we used to have a super high infant mortality rate to the point that life expectancy statistics were in the 30’s? Yeah, a lot of infants would just be left to die in the woods if absolutely no one terminated pregnancies because that’s what we did before the surgeries. Actual murder.
lol infant mortality rates are not lowered because you don't count abortions as a part of them
infant mortality rates would still be the same whether leaving the babies to die or terminating them
@msmissydc ah yes, change the definition to change the stats. liberals love doing that
My man, I am suggesting the unwanted babies would still die. That’s the point.
yeah people die all the time, we should just let it happen, right?
I mean, I was under the impression that you’re pro-life but if you’re pro-choice then okay
@msmissydc of course you don't have to change definitions when others can conveniently do it for you to suit your narrative
@msmissydc except doctors and researchers didn't change the definition
leftists did by using terms like clump of cells and parasites
Can y’all have this argument somewhere else? I’m tired of seeing this shit
Pro choice people are not forcing doctors to do abortions. Forced birthers do force them to not intervene even if they wanted to. So yes, we are fine for doctors to choose not to do it. Medical doctors are scientific people though, on average they care about the medical reasons and logic and therefore are fine with it.
Kamala supported suing Catholic hospitals for not wanting to perform abortions and Kamala got ~70 million votes which is a fuckload of support there
It's different if the doctors don't want to do it or if the people financing a hospital don't want it done. Forcing doctors to do it that don't want to I would disagree with her.
The only exception here would be medical necessary abortions by the way. Doctors made an oath to help. If they deny that it's against their oath and therefore failure to provide assistance or something similar.
in my scenario, absolutely no one wants to perform an abortion. all the doctors have quit
should someone be forced against their will to do it?
it's a hypothetical designed to logically test the consistency and integrity of your beliefs
absolutely
now your turn, will you support a ban on baby deletions having all those things implemented?
looks like your "gotcha" moment didn't work out like you thought it would
turns out you just wanted free shit all along. no responsibilities of your own but everyone must be responsible for your actions
It wasn't a gotcha moment. It was just to see if you are pro life or forced birth.
The "free stuff" is for having decent human lives. Something society should help people with. Crazy how people think su ving outside influences should cost you more than you are able to earn. Go live alone in a forest. You can earn everything you need to survive yourself and don't have to share.
no such thing as forced birth. not doing anything is not forcing anything
nah free stuff while still wanting abortions screams "gimme what I want or I'll kill my baby"
I can guarantee it's the pro-aborts who ain't doing shit to help out struggling mothers, it's the pro-lifers actually helping out struggling mothers
oh I'm willing to share as long as everyone contributes, you wouldn't wanna do a group assignment all by yourself where everyone gets equal credit regardless if they contributed or not
In reality thats not true though. Those advocating for affordable heaothcare are generally not conservatives or right wingers. Its the left who also is mostly prochoice. Reality can't be much clearer.
Your group project example is lacking because its a too much simplified analogy. Its not that only some people give something and everyone receives it. Its that everyone gives something small in case they need it. Its reality in a lot of countries, its not an unrealistic dream. It is already reality in some countries and some people still argue it's impossible. Weird way to deny reality for your own agenda.
No one is killing babies except those that fail to provide necessary help to those in need.
Yes anti abortion is forced birth. Because anti abortion people generally don't care about specific cases. They deny it for everyone. At least those that make the laws you support.
liberals and left-wingers don't advocate for affordable healthcare either. they advocate for free healthcare without limits which is allows illegals and chronically ill people to deliberately live unhealthy lives. it's ridiculous that fatties would rather rely on free healthcare to fund their lifestyles instead of going to the gym
those other countries have a culture that doesn't promote unhealthy lifestyles which makes their healthcare less likely to end up bankrupt due to people excessively going to the doctors
abortionists are definitely killing babies in the millions. there's no such thing as forced birth because birth is a natural process. neither you or I or anyone else for that matter can speed it up or it happen at any time
pro-lifers provide more support to mothers than abortionists do by far. denying it for everyone is actually consistent whereas the abortionists lack consistency
Denying it for everybody means killing women. Great pro life you got there.
It's natural yes, so is cancer. Part of medicine is doing better than nature. Where are pro choicers killing babies?
I only see forced birthers letting babies die because they don't care about them the moment a fetus is born.
Yes, left wingers are literally advocating for affordable healthcare all the time and it works in most left leaning countries.
Part of it is promoting a healthy live choice by making doctors and therefore medical precare affordable. Yes healthcare should be a human right. Therefore I don't care who receives it. I Am consistence in not giving it only to those that are lucky to be able to pay for it by denying it for others.
I am pretty sure those that are forced birthers are the same that at this moment want to cut medicaid in america. While those that are generally more pro choice are trying to save it for the people.
Where are "pro lifers" doing anything like that? They work together with maga getting rid of any social service in existence. Thats reality you can see this very moment.
wrong. denying abortion doesn't kill women, it saves babies. there's no medical necessities ever for an abortion. left-wing propaganda has created unnecessary fear in women
actually cancer isn't natural at all. it's poor lifestyle factors that lead to cancer
pro-lifers are an extremely small minority and they do care and contribute more to the mother and baby than every other pro-choicer out there. pro-choicers are the ones who don't give a shit
nope, liberals want free healthcare, not affordable healthcare. big difference. most left leaning countries are communist shitholes like China and Venezuela
healthy lifestyles are dependent on culture, not economics. nothing can be a human right if it requires outside dependent factors like doctors. no doctors = no healthcare and no one should be forced to do a job they don't want to do
MAGA isn't pro-life lol. most of MAGA aren't even conservative. Trump, RFK Jr and Tulsi are all pro-choice, JD was pro-life until he got browbeaten into accepting pro-choice. the actual genuine pro-lifers are an extreme small minority which is why you won't hear about them or their contributions
thegepi.org/maternal-mortality-abortion-bans/ one of many sources that show how wrong you are.
When science is seen as propaganda you have to realize how wrong you are.
So by choosing to live a different kind of life you become unnatural? Thats bullshit!
If pro lifers are a minority how come abortin access is denied or restricted in a lot of states and roe vs wade was abolished? Free is affordable and it's never completely free. it's just that you pay differently. It's free as in you don't pay the doctor individually. You don't pay to go to the doctor. You pay a smaller tax so no one has to pay to go to the doctor.
your "source" has no methodology, just a bunch of unfounded numbers that be easily debunked. in fact the myth you like to spread disingenuously includes other causes of deaths not related to abortion bans whatsoever including suicides. my mother isn't pregnant now but if she were to die, your "source" would include her death as part of "maternal mortality"
www.ajog.org/.../fulltext
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6027002/
your "source" is no different to pro-vaxxers including death by obesity as death by COVID simply because an obese person had COVID
abortion isn't banned in any state for the life of the mother. abortion is actually far more dangerous given the toxic chemicals injected into women and the time delays doctors often need for the baby to decay first. maternal deaths have nothing to do with the laws and more to do with medical malpractice
except what you have isn't science. women have been giving birth to multiple babies for generations without trouble. my mom has 6 children. my grandmothers on both sides have 8 and 10 children each. modern women these days are unhealthy as fuck and making their own pregnancies worse than it should be when the smoke, drink alcohol, eat junk food, give birth in their late 30s etc.
people get cancer through poor lifestyle choices whether smoking or alcohol or sunbathing and getting all sorts of cancers like lung cancer, skin cancer etc. cancer is unnatural
each state has different criteria for changing their laws. still doesn't change the fact that pro-lifers are a minority especially given they are usually outnumbered everywhere they go to advocate for their cause
except liberals want healthcare to be completely free, not affordable. liberals are well known for wanting free stuff and expect other people to pay taxes for them
My source literally has its methodology noted and it uses the maternity death Definition by WHO standards. Which specifically states "from any cause related to or aggravated by the pregnancy or its management, but not from accidental or incidental cause".
Try again missrepresenting facts in your favour and this discussion is over.
Women never have given birth without Trouble. Pregnancy was always one of the riskiest and dangerous parts of a womens life. That is even supported by your own article. Its mainly a literature review. Also it does not take into account that abortions have a higher result in death, because they are often used in case of emergencies. That's like saying the death rate of an a bulance drive is higher than that of a taxi drive. Of course it is, because one is used in emergencies. You are an anti vaxxer as well? 🤣. Ok that explains a lot. Your part about obese people dying from covid again is stupid. There are included because most obese people live unhlealthy yes, but surive and can life. They do have a higher risk of dying from deseases because of it yes. But that's is still caused by the desease.
About including suicides in maternal death rates, it is needed for inclusion because psychological and hormonal stress and results of it are part of a pregnancy. You can't just ignore that which you don't like.
your "source" describes the definition as "within 42 days of terminating a pregnancy" which is disingenuous as fuck. by that logic anything can happen to her after her abortion and that still counts as a death due to abortion bans. read your own fucking study first
no one is saying giving birth is easy. there's always been ways to save both the mother and babies but leftists wanna pretend there's no way to save both and use fearmongering lies to scare women
of course abortions have a higher result in death because performing abortions are dangerous and has nothing to do with abortion bans.
your ambulance/taxi analogy falls apart because your study is trying to blame pro-life laws for maternal mortality rates and the equivalent to your ambulance/taxi analogy is blaming safe road rules even though ambulances are allowed to break certain road rules
obese people with COVID who die from obesity are being counted as dying from COVID which is disingenuous reporting anymore than a pregnant woman dying in a car crash being counted as a statistic against pro-life laws
including suicide rates is another excuse to blame pro-life laws but then again you'll accept suicide rates for LGBTQ as an excuse to blame bathroom laws
nope I'm pointing out the lies in the source you've provided
yeah that's just more fearmongering so jobless morons can go riot and protest over nothing
No one is forcing anyone to perform an abortion. However now that you mention it, I'd support that concept as a mandatory practice for all Evangelical Christians.
how would you enforce this mandatory practice?
That's a hypothetical question. If a female's life is threatened by a pregnancy, A doctor would perform the abortion whether he wants to or not, according to the Hippocratic Oath. A doctor cannot be Forced to an optional at will abortion.
yes it is hypothetical and it's meant to test how strongly people believe in "my body my choice"
A baby's body is not "our". It is his or hers with it's own unique DNA. FULL STOP. But I agree that no abortions should have exceptions.
You're too young to remember "back alley abortions", and they don't teach you about them in school either. That's what happens.
no one in this scenario wants to perform an abortion and that includes back alley abortions
you can't evade the question
I'm not evading it. No one should be "forced" to do an abortion, or many other things. However, in this hypothetical situation, if the pregnant woman wanted it badly enough, she'd do it herself. Hence, a back alley abortion.
If you're trying to make the point that doctors shouldn't be forced to give abortions if it's against their belief, they're not.
so anyone should be "forced" to perform an abortion because a pregnant woman wants one?
Can you not READ? Look at what I said above: " No one should be "forced" to do an abortion, or many other things."
nah I'm totally blind. I can't even see what I'm reading now
Cute. I answered your question. Sorry you missed it. Not my fault.
You can't force me to perform one. You gotta pay me a dollar first.
Thankfully correct thinking people will NEVER let that happen
what's "correct thinking"? where do you get "correct thinking" from?
Non misogynist
again where do you get "correct thinking" from?
Not being a misogynist. Kinda obvs
that doesn't explain anything. again where do you get "correcting thinking" from? the law? your own personal preferences?
Being correct of course
correct in terms of what? science? your own personal preferences?
All. None.
none? then there's no "correct thinking"
It’s still hilarious all these conservative guys telling women what to do with their bodies
it's hilarious most laws are designed to restrict everyone's bodies
You can also add your opinion below!
Girl's Behavior 
Guy's Behavior 
Flirting 
Dating 
Relationships 
Fashion & Beauty 
Health & Fitness 
Marriage & Weddings 
Shopping & Gifts 
Technology & Internet 
Break Up & Divorce 
Education & Career 
Entertainment & Arts 
Family & Friends 
Food & Beverage 
Hobbies & Leisure 
Other 
Religion & Spirituality 
Society & Politics 
Sports 
Travel 
Trending & News 
Most Helpful Opinions