Why dont men believe in the wage gap?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

[sawno]

Because there aren't barriers from obtaining the same salaries we do.
You have the same rights as us, you can apply for the same jobs as us, if you have the same skills you can demand the same salaries as us.

The reason that's not happening is because men are more likely to demand a higher salary and are more likely to have an unhealthy career balance where they go trough any length to get higher up.

Women are also more likely to want to work part time instead of full time, less willing to work long overtime hours, etc.

So when you really look at the entirety of it the only gap that exists is the gap in the actual work done, there is no discrimination. But the feminists in your school will love to ignore that part and make it into a pure unrepresentative statistic. If you got this from a teacher your being thought propaganda.

[sawno]

@imjustagirl15 I always hate it when I keep getting notification spam because two others are arguing in my own comment section. So lets just continue here and spare drumlin's inbox. People who are interested in the history of that can read it there.

You are missing the point completely and I don't know if that is because you are 15 and haven't seen any of this in practice yet or because you are deliberately trying to twist things. But ill continue in good faith hoping its the former.

I'm not saying at all that women are confined to the choices they are making, what I am saying is that their interests tend to be different then what men are interested in. And if you leave everyone free to pursue what they enjoy most women and men organize themselves into the categories we see. That doesn't mean a guy will never be a hair stylist or a nurse and that no girl will ever be a system administrator. I did have a girl in my class after all so she is clearly allowed and capable of making the choice of this career and we took her as serious as any of the guys. What you are missing is that its actually liked when a competent girl joins our workforce, its not worked against in the slightest. There just are barely any girls applying because most of them don't choose my job, they aren't interested in learning the ins and outs of the windows operating system the same way I am. If I then worked really hard on my skills and have a good career, should I be immediately discarded as a job candidate the moment a girl applies who barely has experience? Of course not, but the discriminatory quota's dictate I should be. That is unfair.

[sawno]

Same way in reverse, I probably make a terrible nurse as I am a tech geek not a nurse. If I decided to apply to be a nurse should I be hired because there aren't enough men in the department and they need the statistic? Because that's what these solutions by the people who think a wage gap exist actually tend to want and they lie to you that you don't have a chance otherwise.

If you want to become an IT sysadmin like I am, you won't need a quota at all and its a field in my country without a fixed salary. So you get the skills, you apply for the job, and then you negotiate good pay. That's how the system works, and that system does not discriminate. You missed that I was also severely underpaid for my work for the same reason as many girls are, I failed to understand what I was worth at the time and failed to demand a higher salary. So they hired me for the low price I was willing to work at. That's not a gender issue, that is a negotiation skill issue.

The sooner we stop discriminating and the sooner we fix the actual underlying issues that effect girls the better off we are. Because what has proven successful is teaching girls how to negotiate salaries so your not going to settle for something low. And then you still have to get there on your competence instead of your boobs, because your proposing the latter and that's not ok.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Did you know that many women choose not to study those things because they know how they would be treated. I know lots of girls who were to scared to apply to the school they wanted because there were mostly guys and didn't want to be treated differently, it doesn't matter that your school doesn't treat them any different, it has happened way to much for women to be scared of it.

Well no because it takes education to become a nurse, it doesn't just happen overnight.

Yeah dude you’re just like all men.

[sawno]

You are side stepping the issue. You can't solve it this way.

I am saying that discriminating who gets hired doesn't work because then you are discriminating competent men in favor of whatever girl applies which is unfair and discriminatory to men as women then don't have to do it based on merit while guys do. That's textbook discrimination. If I proposed the reverse and suggested that all men should always get the job and women should work hard for it you would be against that or maybe even think it is that way already. But systemically you'd be wrong, systemically its the other way round due to laws in certain countries and policies in certain companies.

You then give me a probably valid reason as to why girls aren't applying in the school. Would be cool if we could solve that one, and maybe you can with special schools and motivation for women to pick up the field. Solutions like that make sense and don't discriminate. Those are the kind of solutions I like.

But what you can't do is solve the problem that girls aren't choosing the job by punishing corporations that fail to hire a specific number of them.

By that logic I could demand you to find me 100 girls in the Netherlands who are currently looking for an IT job. Because lets say the quota requires that for a few companies. Where are you going to get them from? Its only 100 that I am asking so it might actually be possible.

You shouldn't have to do that, but its what the quota's demand of the corporations. So when they then do finally find a girl they instantly hire them in favor of the most competent guy available. And if you can't acknowledge that is wrong you are in favor of discrimination.

[sawno]

Extra correction, the 100 girls have to be IT system administrators with expertise in microsoft intune, active directory, terminal servers and office 365.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

or maybe both men and women should work hard for it? tf?

[sawno]

I agree, which would be true if you don't do quota's.

[lightbulb27]

It may exist in areas, but as well, women in some cases get paid more or a lot more. In private sector it is more about your negotiation and relational skills, your value. I've seen women get paid way more than men.

In other settings it may be different. I don't claim to know them all. The inverse of above is true as well... if a female does not have the power to negotiate or fight for herself, she will get less than someone that does.

In a union, it's usually agreed upon and not negotiable.

All of this translates through to normal life... like buying a car and such. If a more corrupt person thinks they can screw you over and make money, they will try. If an honest person does not, count yourself lucky. People don't always trust honest people.

[Kelley1]

Men earn more than women. Almost everyone knows that. The reason men earn more is that they work longer and more hours, in dangerous and difficult jobs, and take less time off for illness. Moreover, women refuse to pour and spread hot tar under the blazing sun. And, women refuse to work in the mud in freezing weather.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

im obviously talking about women who do the exact same thing as men, same hours, same risks and everything. obviously if someone works more they’re gonna get paid more.

[Kelley1]

@imjustagirl15 There are very few jobs where men and women do the exact work. Women can bat their eyes, and men will do their job, but not for other men. To employ more women, organizations must implement strategies that focus on women-focused diversity recruitment. This approach aims to attract, hire, and retain women for roles traditionally dominated by men. As a result, to avoid fines. lawsuits, and to keep the government off their backs, women are paid slightly more than men for the same work.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

whats ur sources?

[Kelley1]

Equal Employment Opportunity Laws

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yeah cuz men are famous for following laws.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Because they either prefer statistics that claim it doesn’t exist, which can be possible depending on how you organize your data and how you find it. Or because they don’t want to believe it exists, so they say it doesn’t. Or they don’t really care.

[Berethor]

Wage gap is a feminist myth that vanish when you factor variables other than gender.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/gender-pay-gap-myth-wont-go-away

https://www.youtube.com/embed/n1oYtp1iO7A

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

proving my point

[888theGreat]

Ok here it goes baby sister:

1) Men have been working longer in some cases

2) Women get paid the same with union labor

3) The Gap has been closed

4) In a lot of cases women make more than men now

If you are talking sports , men fill more seats and sell more sports items than women. The only female sports star that can equal a man or outsell a man is Caitlin Clark.

Now in Europe woman and men are paid about the same.

So it really depends where you live , the type of job.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

This is obviously when they’ve worked the same amount of time and have the same experiences. its sad i have to explain common sense to grown men.
I wasn't talking about sports.

[888theGreat]

if the woman is better , she gets paid more. People with businesses want the best workers because they make more with them. So Female, Homo's, Black , they will be highest paid.

mostly this is a political talking point used on the left for more votes. Not really an issue.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

what do you not understand with ”same”?

[888theGreat]

There is not a pay gap any longer. Women that say so are looking for an excuse

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

oh god🤦‍♀️ its pointless trying to talk to a male who doesn't believe in the truth

[888theGreat]

But you are a kid , so you won't get paid as much , sure. There are a lot of jobs you can't do now.

[888theGreat]

In a lot of cases women will just work for less than me, Women tend to cross picket line in a strike quicker than men.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

omfg seriously what do you not understand with the word SAME.
OFC i won't get the same amount of money as a person who has worked there for 10 years. IM OBVIOUSLY talking about when both men and women do the EXACT SAME kind of work, for the EXACT SAME amount of time and the man still gets paid more, what is it you dont understand?

[David318578]

Because it has been debunked. A lot of women choose jobs that they will find fulfillment in that pay less. A lot of men choose jobs because it pays more.

You want to get rid of the wage gap you have to remove womans ability to choose happiness over a higher wage and force them into jobs they will hate all so they make more $$. Do that and wage gape is gone.

Not a great solution though

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

thats not the wage gap tho. this is common sense, use ur brain please.

[David318578]

That is the wage gap, because its just looking at all the women wage and all the mens wage and there is a difference because its not adjusted for careers

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

no its not.

[David318578]

The wage gap is just raw statistics and do not take into account, career choices, hours worked, and the decision to pause your career to have a family.

When all those are taken into account the gap disappears.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

omfg🥱🤦‍♀️

[David318578]

This isn't complicated, hypothetical scenario for you.

Your older and married, you and your husband are both making the exact same wage, you decide you want to start a family so you drop out of the work force for a few years and then go back to a part time job as you raise your kids.

Statistical there is a huge wage gap now between you and your husband.. why? Is it because of your choice? Or some conspiracy to pay women less?

The only thing that corporations care about is profit, so why dont corporations fire all the men and hire all women and pay them less increasing profits? The fact this never happens should be a pretty good indication that the raw statistics are flawed

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

but i would never do that tho.

[David318578]

You might not, but millions and millions of women do.. so if you ignore their choices to do that, you get majorly flawed statistics

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

but im not talking about those.

[David318578]

Yes you are, the wage gap statistics do not adjust for thoes decisions. Which is why it has been debunked. You can't just look at raw statistics without any context.

For example the raw data shows that more people die in a car accident then then committing suicide. The raw data shows its more dangerous to drive a car then attempt suicide. Which is obviously absurd. But thats the problem with just looking at raw statistics without adjusting for the context of the statistics.

Its very easy to manipulate stats, and the wage gape was a a manipulated stat

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

the wage gap is obviously when a man and woman works the exact same job, same hours and have the same experiences.

[David318578]

Thats the problem is the gap goes away when you look at the same job, hours and experience. When adjusted for thoes things the gap is a few cents, one way of the other, sometimes it actually favors the women, depending on the field

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

it doesn't tho, thats the problem

[David318578]

It does..

Here is a link if you want to read about how its actually calculated when its adjusted for same job, title, experience, hours etc..

Of if you dont want to real the whole article here is a clip from it..

"Payscale, which tracks compensation information, found that the controlled gender pay gap is $.99 for every $1 a man makes."

www.usatoday.com/.../

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Thats still a wage gap yk

[David318578]

Lol yeah thats true someday you girls will get that extra penny

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

and u do know its worse in other countries, right? its important for me that u know that…

[David318578]

Sure its worse for women in most non western countries regardless of wage gap.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

no shit

[Drumlin2001]

Because it's been proven to be false, and it makes no sense. Wages are usually the highest cost for most businesses. If you telling me I can save 10% by hiring women I'd have an all women workforce.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

proving my point

[sawno]

You asked why, there is no point to proof that most men here won't believe it exists. We are the ones being discriminated against after all with the supposed solutions to the issue, so we are very aware of how bad this myth is.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

oh shut the fuck up. how are you being discriminated as a man?

[sawno]

Simple, there is laws how there must be X amount of women in a job. The problem is that amount of women isn't interested in the job. So then if there is a women applying she automatically gets hired in favor of the guy. The moment you introduce that kind of sexist quota the majority group gets unfairly discriminated against due to lack of supply.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Yeah because there's always enough men. Were you ever not allowed to have a job or work?
Thats not true. Women have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously.

[sawno]

I have seen no basis for that in the sector I work in, the girls that applied got jobs to. There just aren't any because they aren't in the field. I saw that first hand to. There was a cute girl setting next to me in job orientation class for IT. She loved the idea, saw there were no girls other than her and opted for something else instead. In my IT academy there were probably 80 guys, 2 girls. With that kind of ratio of course there aren't gonna be many girls around for the job. I have never met a single girl who is capable and didn't get hired. None of the girls I ever had as colleagues were nearly as competent as the guys because they were always transfers from other industries and had no tech background. And that's simply because they don't care about the job while us tech geeks do. There are plenty of professions where its a reverse situation but we shouldn't be discriminating because of that. Its totally fine, there is no issue whatsoever if girls don't like doing my job (Other than the lack of dating opportunities, it would have been nice having more girls around me in real life) they will do a job that they like and I dislike. There is also no issue in reverse either when its a job only women want to do. How many hairstylists are men for example?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Ah yes because women could only care about cooking and cleaning right? 2 out of 4 billion btw…
You do know barbers exists right?

[Snakeyes7]

Because the entire thing is predicted on the comparison of the average salary of men and women with no variables accounted for. It takes the difference between the two and claims that sexism is the only explanation where there could be an infinite number of explanations for it.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

its obviously not

[Twodogs0525]

Your lack of comprehension of simple explanations and facts proves my point. I wouldn't hire you if you didn't want a salary.

[Anonymous]

It's not that we don't believe in the wage gap, but rather that we don't believe the bullshit reasons feminists give for it. It's an objective fact that the wage gap exists, but it can be 100% explained by women's preferences, choices and behaviors compared to men's.

Women have all the same rights and opportunities as men to choose (and stay in) high paying jobs, but they don't. That's the bottom line.

[goaded]

It's simple. It's because men take higher paying jobs, like lawyer, banker, doctor, while women take lower paying jobs like female lawyer, female banker, female doctor...

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

are you playing dumb or are u actually dumb?

[goaded]

It's a joke. Quite a feminist one, in fact.

I just looked for a source and found "What is a name for a female lawyer?

Sue"

I think that's funny, too.

"The wage gap isn’t real
Men just go for higher paying jobs like doctor, CEO, lawyer etc. Where as women pick lower paying jobs like female doctor, female lawyer, and female CEO"
https://upjoke.com/female-lawyer-jokes

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

funny because its not about you.

[goaded]

It's taking the mickey out of the idea that it's just because women take lower paid jobs. Maybe it's just British humour.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yeah and yk i think its really funny that men have the highest suicide rate, u should try it one day!

[Imjustagirl1520]

@Twodogs0525 my god, who pissed in ur cereal today? hating on a 15 yr old girl because she aggravated you with her question is real immature. get a life.

[Hagar88]

Because its more to do with women's choices than any discrimination

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

ok so if a woman works the same job, same amount of hours, same prior experiences, its her fault because of her choices?

[Hagar88]

a woman works the same job, same amount of hours, same prior experiences by law she gets the same unless its based on performance or overtime or unpaid leave. Many women will just choose work the basic 36 hours.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

no its called a wage gap. wether u like it or not.

[Hagar88]

An imagined wage gap because if a woman was getting paid less than a man its an open and shut case and she would walk away with $250,000 from the court

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yeah no, not how it works

[Hagar88]

Its exactly how it works. A company stupid enough to discriminate loses big. Many people hope to be discriminated on anything because of the court settlement which will sort you up for life. Woman just won a big case because they discriminated against her because she was straight.
www.eeoc.gov/.../eeoc-wins-500000-jury-verdict-against-cigar-city-motors-sex-discrimination

[Chazmatazz269]

The wage gap has been debunked dozens of times. Nobody with any real sense believes that nonsense.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

proving my point

[Chazmatazz269]

If your point is that men are sensible people who trust in the facts while everyone who rushes to judgment on rhetoric and feelings is a fool, you are correct. There is no evidence of “the wage gap”. Produce empirical evidence to prove otherwise and i’ll gladly rescind.

[Chazmatazz269]

Link it!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

This is common sense🤦‍♀️

[Chazmatazz269]

That kind of response demonstrates that you don’t have facts to support your opinions.
Grow up.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

u can simply google it, and I've linked it several times for others so just look there

[Chazmatazz269]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You are ridiculous.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’m not the lazy one. I’ve done the research. I know the facts. You’re the one who found a story that suits a narrative you chose in advanced with absolutely no empirical evidence to offer and stopped there. Exactly what a silly little child does.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

right🤦‍♀️

[DonaldDarko]

Because it's been debunked over and over. It's just commie BS

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

its not.

[DonaldDarko]

It's made up nonsense. Look at the WNBA. They insist they should make what NBA players make but don't generate nearly the revenue.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

not arguing with a trumpie, its useless

[DonaldDarko]

It is useless, you Bolshies don't have an argument.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

wtv makes u sleep at night

[DonaldDarko]

I watch ICE videos of them grabbing invaders and throwing them in the back of SUVs for deportation. I especially like any video where some commie gets pepper sprayed. I especially like it if it's one of these white liberal women with her hair died pink and a ring in her nose. Boy when the pepper spray starts to set in , that's the part I love. I go right to sleep and dream of more deportations.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

nothing to be proud of by the way

[DonaldDarko]

Your Bolshevism? No of course it's not. You should feel ashamed.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

what?

[DonaldDarko]

You mean to say you're not ashamed of your Marxism?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

dude what?

[DonaldDarko]

You're Marxist views of class struggle between idiot rapefugees from third world shit holes and formerly clean and neat Swedish people. If you're not trying to save the "refugees" it's some sexual degenerate who's being "oppressed" and must be saved. Your views are anti hierarchical. You want everyone to be equal. You want to do it by making the well off Sweed who lives a clean life live like a third world animal or simply by letting the low IQ third world trash kill him.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

what are u talking about?

[DonaldDarko]

You said you were from Sweden. That's what's happening there.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

u literally know nothing about my country.

[DonaldDarko]

This guy does, he's exposing it all the time. https://www.youtube.com/@PeterSweden

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yeah right, goodbye

[Kingofkings1992]

Oh... I don't know, maybe because it's been debunked over and over and over and over again... just a guess. Don't be stupid kiddo. Only brainwashed whiny little victims actually think that the wage gap is a thing.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

🥱🥱🥱

[Kingofkings1992]

Yep, I feel the exact same thing towards you lmfao 🤣

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

right

[Anonymous]

because most homeless people and prisoners are men and they earn nothing

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

well because they dont work? this is common sense, no?

[Opinion Owner]

yes it's common sense hence there's no wage gap

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

omfg🤦‍♀️

[Opinion Owner]

omfg

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

do u even know what that means?

[Opinion Owner]

do you?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

i do, i js assumed u didn't bc of ur old age

[Opinion Owner]

I assumed you didn't because of your young age

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

it was literally made by young people dude…

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

that was not the comeback you thought it was🤣

[Opinion Owner]

yeah by young people who existed before you e. g. me

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yeah right🤣 shouldn't u be at work rn?

[Opinion Owner]

I am at work

shouldn't you be at school right now?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

then why aren't u working? nah im sick today

[Opinion Owner]

I am working including right now

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

u work by talking to minors?

[Opinion Owner]

I work by giving you a free education your school won't provide

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

exactly how r u educating me rn?

[Opinion Owner]

by pointing out the factors you missed when determining the wage gap

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

you’re talking about a whole different thing tho, so no.

[Opinion Owner]

nope I'm talking about the wage gap. homeless men don't earn $0

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

if u have no job ur not gonna get paid. the wage gap is men and women working the same job with same experiences and same time but still getting paid less. its sad i have to explain this to grown men.

[Opinion Owner]

except women aren't getting paid less with those factors taken into account. the "wage gap" as explained by feminists is just men getting paid more than women in general excluding those factors completely

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

they are tho. and no its not. this is common sense.

[Opinion Owner]

it's against the law to pay someone less who works the same job with the same hours

companies would just all hire women if they could get away with paying them less

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

its also against the law to kill and rape women yet men do that?

that would be too obvious, obviously. and no company wants just women.

[Opinion Owner]

and they would get punished for it, duh. you're not allowed to discriminate pay based on gender

some companies do hire all women and refuse to hire men and no one has a problem with it

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yet they dont.

like what? i need to get a job there

[Opinion Owner]

no they don't unless they're undocumented immigrants whom companies can take advantage of and hide from the government

those companies went bankrupt due to lack of productivity. no surprises there

you need to get healthy and finish school first

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

yet they do.
get healthy?
and wheres ur examples?

[msc545]

We don't believe in the ways you got because if it happens it doesn't exist.

[FunkyMonkee]

Mosly because it doesn't exist!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

proving my point

[FunkyMonkee]

Thereby, mine!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Nope!

[FunkyMonkee]

Sure does!!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Nope!!

www.europarl.europa.eu/.../understanding-the-gender-pay-gap-definition-facts-and-causes

[FunkyMonkee]

Yep! Women get paid just as much as we do, if not more!!
I was in a print shop a decade ago getting about $7.50 an hour and they hired a new girl to do similar but much easier work than I was doing and was getting over $9.00 an hour!! And I'd already been there 10 years!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Did you not go into the article or…?
Then maybe she had better experiences and were just better than you, just because you’re a man doesn't mean you’re better than every woman.

[FunkyMonkee]

Obviously not! Even I had to tell her how to do certain things and I was practically low man on the totem pole!! Besides, you just proved my point, again! EXPERIENCE!! If guys get paid more, maybe they have more experience!
I never said I was better than every woman!! Nor do I believe it!!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Then maybe she negotiated, or ur boss is just sexist idk🤷‍♀️

[FunkyMonkee]

Or, there's no such thing as a gender pay gap.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

LMAO u just proved there is lmao. A woman got paid more than you because she's a woman, according to u

[FunkyMonkee]

No, I DISPROVED you!! YOU claim that MEN get paid more!

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

you literally said a woman got paid more than u lol

[FunkyMonkee]

Proving that men don't always get paid more than women for the same job.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

when did i say always?

[Mike_Hum]

What do you mean by “wage gap”?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

are you really 53 years old?

[Mike_Hum]

So can you explain what you mean or not?

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

nah u should know this:

[Mike_Hum]

Gotya. So you are so ignorant you can’t even articulate what the wage gap is, but yet claim it exists.

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Common sense btw…

[Mike_Hum]

Then someone of your intellect should be able to explain what you mean succinctly. Unless you don’t understand the phrases you are uttering and just repeating what you heard on TV. Which is a distinct possibility

[Chocolatetwopoint3]

Common sense by the way.. this question is asked by a 53 year old btw…

[Mike_Hum]

So it’s the latter. Someday you’ll not be some ignorant.