Did you read that the governor of Minnesota just called up the Minnesota National Guard in opposition to ICE?

[msc545]

The National Guard will be there to assist city and local police and to prevent ICE from killing or injuring people and violating their rights as they have been doing. What this means is that the people of Minneapolis, the city police, and the Minnesota National Guard will be on one side of the struggle, with agents allied with Donald Trump and his authoritarian regime on the other side. Do you think this might be the first step in a civil war?

https://luciantruscott.substack.com/p/first-step-in-a-civil-war

Updates

5 mo

www.fox9.com/.../minneapolis-shooting-national-guard-called-assist-after-latest-incident-federal-agents

[888theGreat]

They should have a shootout like the OK Coral. If it leads to Civil war so be it. A line has to be drawn. The Constitution has to be upheld no matter the price.

[msc545]

I just listened to the speech that the Governor of Minnesota made. I also listened to the words of a National Guard General who is in charge of the mobilization and the troops. These men are not playing games.

[exitseven]

@msc545 Did you also listen to Border Patrol chief Bovino? He is not screwing around either.

[msc545]

@exitseven I did listen to him, as it turned out. He kept looking at videos and kept trying to talk his way out of what he was seeing. Dana Bash gave him a bit of a rough time. If you've not seen that interview, I suggest you look at it. Additionally, I don't think Bovino believes in the Constitution because he kept saying that the VA nurse that was murdered was "injecting himself" into a "law enforcement situation." The video shows that the guy was standing there with a camera in his hand filming. That is not injecting himself, and that is not obstructing anything. I bet you Bovino really wishes he had never spoken to Dana Bash on the air.

[goaded]

Good. Here's that "domestic terrorist" they murdered honoring a veteran that passed away in the ICU.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vDdh0MfN8oo

[goaded]

Shamelessly stealing:

The Trump administration right now:

🤡 Alex Pretti was a domestic terrorist!

🤨 No, he was a nurse.

🤡 Well… but he brandished a weapon!

🤨 No, he never drew the gun he carried.

🤡 Well… but he was armed.

🤨 No, ICE removed his weapon, before they shot him.

🤡 Well… But he was impeding ICE!

🤨 No, not a single video show him doing that.

🤡 You do not know any of this, because there has not been an independent investigation.

🤨 Will there be an independent investigation?

🤡 No!
mastodon.online/.../115958216202342690

[exitseven]

tim Walz is insane. Instead of observing Federal law he decides to take it upon himself to defy the rule of law. He needs to be arrested before more people get killed.

The goes in front of the Grand Jury soon and hopefully he will be put away for a good long time.

[msc545]

What federal law do you think you're quoting?

[exitseven]

for starters someting calle thje Supremacy Clause.

[msc545]

Now, you know what? Just go back to school, please. I'm not even going to get into it with you in terms of how this doesn't apply in this case, and it has nothing to do with what we're talking about or supposedly talking about.

[exitseven]

Federal L aw takes precedent over th state authorities. He needs to keep his mouth shut and. cooperate with federal authorities.
If ha thinks that this distraction will stop the DOJ from investigating billions of dollars that just disappeared he has another thing coming.
Today he looked ashen and it looks like he knows the jig is up.

[goaded]

He just saw someone shot ten times by people pretending to be law enforcement.

The fraud has been under investigation for years, since well before Trump became president.

Do you know the 4th Amendment? They're secretly saying an administrative warrant is sufficient to break into someone's home, forget all that "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" part.

[NathanDavis]

civilian unrest in that area, perhaps...

but a civil war? no

[DrPepper12]

600 civilian cops
3000 ice

What choice did he have?

[Pterodon]

Won’t work

[msc545]

Why do you think it won't work?

[Pterodon]

Because federal law trumps state laws and Trump will send in the active duty military and the MN NG is no match

[Pterodon]

All you gotta do is cooperate and hand over the criminals ICE is looking for. That’s the easy way. The governor has chosen the hard way. So be it. His choice

[msc545]

Trump can't send an active-duty military and violate the Posse Comitatus Act unless he invokes the Insurrection Act. I will grant you that he may very well do that. On the other hand, I don't think that the regular army and the Minnesota National Guard are going to fight each other. After all, they are all soldiers who took an oath of loyalty, and I don't think that they are going to agree to kill fellow US soldiers to support Trump or even support a leadership in Minnesota. We may very well see what happens when soldiers are given illegal orders and told to do this kind of thing. As I'm sure you already know, soldiers are governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which says that when they are given an illegal order, they literally have a legal obligation to refuse that order. I think this might happen.

[Pterodon]

He will invoke it. He’s threatened it. Want to still do it the hard way? Why won’t you hand over your criminals? I don’t understand

[msc545]

I may invoke it. I wouldn't bet otherwise at this point because I know him too well from all the exposure these past years. Even if he does, I cannot imagine federal troops in the Minnesota National Guard getting into a literal battle with each other, although I guess it could happen. As to your other comment, there are no criminals to hand over, or no criminals that are being harbored. This isn't about that. This is about Trump trying to take over Minnesota, and, I guess, Trump is probably trying to provoke a rebellion. I don't think that the governor of Minnesota, a smart guy, is going to let this happen. But we will see. ICE has no business in Minnesota because they are untrained and they cause more trouble, grief, and death than they prevent. Their presence is an offense to the people of Minnesota and an offense to the Constitution.

[Pterodon]

Keep believing you have no criminals. Yes you do. Keep believing Trump won’t send in the military

[msc545]

I am sure that there are many criminals in ICE because I saw them acting in a criminal fashion. There may be other criminals, but nobody's complaining about them the way they are about ICE. In terms of what Trump may do, I'm not making any predictions about that because I honestly think the man is often unpredictable. He does crazy, illegal stuff on a whim.

[msc545]

I think you might want to to think about the idea that people that do financial fraud are annoying and what they do is illegal and criminal but in no way do their actions arise to the level of criminality that murder does, and we have now seen a murder on the streets of Minneapolis by federal troops. So what would you like to stop the financial frauds or the murders? pick one.

[Pterodon]

First you have to prove they were murdered which hasn’t been done so I’ll take the Walz fraud case

[msc545]

They are both about as dead as you can get after being shot multiple times. If you don't want to call what happened to them murders then what would you like to call it?

[Pterodon]

Self defense

[Pterodon]

If someone had a gun and his finger was on the trigger and aimed at me yes I’ll fire

[msc545]

The video tag clearly shows him holding the gun and it clearly shows an ICE agent taking the gun away from him and walking off with it. How much proof do you need to believe this? Are you seriously telling me that I can't believe what I've seen with my own eyes?

[Pterodon]

I don’t see that

[msc545]

I know you don't, and that is very worrisome.

[Pterodon]

Also I want to tell you about unlawful orders. You cannot refuse an order just because you think it’s unlawful. If I was given an obvious unlawful order to jump overboard for no reason before I can do anything about it I’d better be wet first. That’s how it is

[msc545]

Now, this is really problematic in many ways. If an order is obviously unlawful, and you refuse it, you're still going to get in serious trouble. Your initial impression that it was unlawful may not be upheld going forward. You're likely to be in for a long legal process.

The net result of this is that soldiers who are ordered to do unlawful things wind up doing them anyway, as they are more afraid of the consequences of not doing them than they are of doing them.

[msc545]

If we reverse it, that is, if you decide that an order is lawful and you go ahead and follow it, and then it's turned out later to be deemed unlawful, I think you are still going to be in a lot of trouble. Although it strikes me that this situation is probably much less frequent than the prior one that I described.

[Pterodon]

That’s the way it is. You cannot refuse an order just because you think it’s unlawful.

[msc545]

I think the latter situation might apply to the My Lai incident in the Vietnam War, except that only one person, Lt. Calley, was ever actually found guilty and penalized for all the things that happened in that incident.

[msc545]

What do you think about all this?

[Pterodon]

I think the US military has it right. You can’t have soldiers or sailors refusing to follow orders they don’t like. If this were Russia or China you’d be shot on sight for doing that

[msc545]

The Code of Military Justice sort of contradicts that. It first of all says that you are obligated to refuse an unlawful order. And then it secondarily says you must follow orders, except for the unlawful ones. So what it comes down to is the individual service member, no matter their level of education, must somehow determine whether or not an order is lawful. If they determine wrongly, they get in trouble. Most service members are not lawyers, and that means that they are being asked to do something they haven't been trained to do and, in fact, commanded to do something they haven't been trained to do, which somehow seems unfair.

[Pterodon]

If you don’t like it then start a movement to change it.

[msc545]

I'm obviously not going to do something like that. I'm not in the service, and I have no reason to get involved in this sort of thing other than to just sort of lament the fact that it's pretty much a catch-22 for people who are in the service. Almost all of my patients are veterans.