Have you seen the Philly Sheriff explaining ICE?

[goaded]

"Law enforcement professionals do not shoot at moving vehicles. I'm not saying fleeing because she wasn't fleeing. She was getting out of the way. Law enforcement professionals do not stand in front of moving vehicles invoking an action that is illegal. No, we don't."

https://media.crooksandliars.com/2026/01/58340.mp4_high.mp4

[lightbulb27]

some truth to that, but not fully. Police have and do shoot at people, generally went to jail.

Triggered police are very dangerous. It's sad there is never the other side conveyed. Have to listen to Grady Judd to get the other view.

Reality is this lady is trying to prevent Phili from being torn up and burned to the ground by crazies. It's cheaper to passify them and throw the officer under the bus. Never a mention about how action leads to reaction leads to quick decisions, and bad ones.

If that lady was wrestling with a guy as big as girlfriend, trying to take her gun, she'd get on him, take his A$$ down and but her knee on his back and cuff him, like someone else we know that died.

That's a fact Jack!

[goaded]

Not a fact. Floyd died because the knee stayed on his back for ages, well past the point where he was subdued.

[David318578]

Floyd died from a drug overdose. The knee on the back had nothing to do with his death other then the fact the cop ignored and stopped him from getting medical attention.

Cop was a moron for ignoring a medical issue and Floyd was a pice of shit human.

The great thing about being a moderat is you can see the stupidity from both sides of the isle.

[lightbulb27]

@David318578 agree w you! minimal to do with it. issue is he ignored someone dying slowly. root cause... pride? he was POd and didn't care.

[goaded]

@David318578 No, he died because of the murderer who knelt on his neck far past the point he was subdued and to the point of killing him. If Floyd had had asthma and died, what would you be saying?

[David318578]

Sorry but knelling on the back of someones neck was department policy because its a way to restrain him in a non lethal manner.
The problem wasn't that he used that technique the problem was that Floid had OD on drugs and was dying and he didn't do anything to help the situation.

Thats not murder, thats manslaughter. Both are pieces of shit, floyd was a terrible human being and the officer should never of been a police officer.

This is the great thing about not being a leftist or a righty. I can see the stupidity of both sides.

[goaded]

@David318578 Sorry, but if any of that were true, Chauvin wouldn't have been convicted of murder.

[David318578]

@goaded here is a link to a scientific study on the matter, and this has nothing to do with that specific case. Just the science behind putting weight on the back of a prone suspect.

www.forcescience.com/.../

Spoilers you can not generate anywhere near enough pressure to suffocate someone this way.

He was charged with murder because of political pressure. But he probably should of been charged with manslaughter

[goaded]

@David318578 If Floyd had had asthma and died, what would you be saying?

[goaded]

@David318578 Unsurprisingly, you're misrepresenting the study.

"Yet thanks to allegations leveled by plaintiffs’ attorneys and police critics, the myth of potential harm persists, including the claim that the weight of an officer placing a knee on a suspect’s back to aid in stabilizing and handcuffing can cause “restraint asphyxia,” a supposed fatal impairment of the subject’s ability to breathe."

Floyd was handcuffed in seconds, he was knelt on for minutes. If they'd sat him up, he'd still be alive.

[David318578]

Im sure he had all kinds of medical issues that his drug use made much worse. But the facts are the facts. It is scientifically impossible for you to be asphyxiated by being restrained like Floyd was.

[lightbulb27]

@goaded
They should have sat him up, if they cared... that is the problem and legit complaint. They did do that earlier, set him on a bench. After Floyd went nuts... for his own legit purposes being taken to jail and kicking officers... they put him on the ground and kept him there... assumably waiting for what... a larger wagon? Wrongly.
But then again, other officers whom where in similar position in the past DID have SUSPECT get up, and harm officer if not kill officer. That is why there was training to do what they did.
Granted, it was wrong to ignore him as he suffocated, same it was wrong to ignore the other 5-6 that suffocated before floyd and the one that suffocated after floyd... a chinese guy.
None of those officers were convicted... all walked. Maybe it's because the victims weren't black enough? The scenarios were similar. Who knows.

[goaded]

@David318578 That's not what your scientific paper says.

[David318578]

From the link
"In prior scientific studies, weights of up to 225 lbs. have been placed on a prone subject’s back without causing any clinically significant respiratory impairment, Kroll points out. For fatal consequences to be likely “would take two or more LEOs, weighing 287 lbs., each standing on the back of a prone subject,” he writes.

The measurements from his study were nowhere near those levels.

The average force weight delivered by the single-knee techniques ranged from merely 55 to 73 lbs., regardless of the officer’s body weight,"

So your going to need just shy of 600lbs of weight and you only get 50-75 lbs from someone knelling.

So yeah that scientific paper does say that

[goaded]

@David318578 You keep ignoring what the study studied and claiming that "the claim that the weight of an officer placing a knee on a suspect’s back to aid in stabilizing and handcuffing" is the same as the weight of an officer placing a knee on a suspect’s back for nearly 10 minutes. It's not.

You can hold your hand over the nose and mouth of a person for a minute without killing them, do it for ten minutes and they'll be dead.

[David318578]

@goaded the time is irrelevant when the weight was not enough to limit breathing, thats a scientific fact

Floyd died because of drugs and health problems.

[goaded]

@David318578 "Floyd died because of drugs and health problems" exacerbated by having someone kneel on his neck for 10 minutes and not caring if he died. Which he did. Which was murder.

You can pretend to know better than a court of law all you like, but realise it's just pathetic.

[David318578]

Its not murder, and a lot of people speculate that he was charged with murder specifically so it would be overturned.
Manslaughter would be a proper charge for what happened.

[goaded]

@David318578 Of course it was murder, that's what the trial proved. Has it been overturned? No.

"The Supreme Court declined to hear Chauvin's case on November 20, 2023, which left in place the state court rulings that affirmed his conviction and for his sentence of 22+1⁄2 years in prison"

[David318578]

Its currently been accepted for an appeal trial.
Murder needs aforethought
Manslaughter needs recklessness or negligence etc.

He pinned him down and neglected his cries for help because he thought he was lying. Thats manslaughter

[goaded]

@David318578 Sure. Where is he appealing to? It's already gone to the SCOTUS and been rejected, but don't let the facts or the law dissuade you from your beliefs.

He was convicted and sentenced for "unintentional second-degree murder while attempting to commit felony assault."

[David318578]

@goaded yeah getting rejected by the supreme Court is not surprising, considering it hasn't finished going through the lower courts yet. Worth a shot for the lawyer to see if they would hear it early because its kind of a political case. But its currently in the appeals court

mncourts.gov/media/stateofminnesotavderekchauvin

[goaded]

@David318578 This from someone who accused me of not understanding US law. Come back when you learn what a calendar is, then what an opinion of a court is. (Hint: it contains the decision of that court.)

Go to your link. Read the most recent document, from April 2023.

It is the opinion of the court. The final section, "Decision", is that court's final say. It says " The law only permits police officers to use reasonable force when effecting a lawful arrest. Chauvin crossed that line here when he used unreasonable force on Floyd".

That was appealed to the state supreme court, which also told him to pound sand, and that was the decision that he unsuccessfully appealed to SCOTUS.

[David318578]

@goaded is the word "pending" confusing for you?

[goaded]

@David318578 It seems the word "decision" is to you. In fairness to you, the legal profession use strange terms occasionally. Or maybe they just don't update their website.

Regardless, the facts are:

Chauvin was indicted, tried, and convicted of murder.

His appeal to a higher Minnesota court found in its decision in April 2023 that the lower court hadn't done anything to warrant overturning the conviction, see the document at your link.

His appeal to the state supreme court was not heard, rejected.

His appeal to SCOTUS was not heard, rejected.

There is no higher court for Chauvin to appeal to, and hasn't been for years now.

[David318578]

Yes there is a long process for appeal, the law team will try multiple options, like a change of venue that can be denied. If the case is still pending then its still pending.

[goaded]

@David318578 No, there WAS a long process for appeal, it is now over, and has been since the end of 2023. There are no more appeals possible. There are no attempts for Chauvin to appeal. It is a dead parrot.

[David318578]

No its not, you have heard the term "case closed"? The term "case pending" does not mean case closed

[goaded]

@David318578 OMG, you're going to keep denying reality, aren't you? Chauvin was convicted of murder, the conviction was upheld by all three possible courts of appeal. There are no more legal avenues to have the conviction overturned. None. Nada.

[David318578]

@goaded no reality is case pending does not mean case closed. Im sure his legal team is waiting for after the midterm elections in hopes of getting more favorable judges to hear the case.

Regardless this whole argument is a waste of time because Im not arguing he is innocent, im saying he should of been charged with manslaughter not murder.

[goaded]

@David318578 I'm not surprised you're sure of yourself, nor am I surprised you are completely, utterly, and obviously wrong about the status of the conviction of Derek Chauvin.

Chauvin was convicted of murder, the conviction was upheld by all three possible courts of appeal. There are no more legal avenues to have the conviction overturned.

[Shiprex]

Apparently this ICE agent isn't law enforcement so shouldn't not have been harassing anyone on a public highway OR instructing them out of their vehicles.

It was a pathetic man who lost his temper and used a lethal weapon without cause on an innocent civilian.

[Shiprex]

Thanks for the MHO @goaded

[FreyaRed]

This ICE Agent wanted to kill someone and he did, that's why he approached this car from front side and stood slightly off but not directly in line that car could take while accelerating.
Even if I think deportation of illegals is important, such behavior like of this agent is counterproductive for deportation operations. However on the other hand I think incitement of conflict is for ruling class in US more important than deporting few illegals. Enemy for them is the people not few illegals without any rights.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

You do know Philo is where all the most bloodthirsty gangs are right? They murder for fun out there. Even people from new york don't fuck with them. You gotta be a grimy fuck if someone from the Bronx doesn't want anything to do with you.

There's a guy in the area who's been killing animals and posting it on social media. I'm pretty sure it turned out he's from Philly.

[goaded]

And the police still don't shoot them out of hand or while they're behind the wheel of a moving car.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Wow, so were discovering that a city where the criminals aren't held accountable, is likely to be safe for the criminals and dangerous for everyone else.

[goaded]

Not killing suspects is not the same thing as letting them go.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

So you wanted him to put his hands on the hood of the car and stop it like that?

[goaded]

You know he put himself in harms way. One step to his right and he wouldn't even have been in danger of the bruised shin he got. His life was never in danger.

It's a decade old border patrol trick to justify shooting fleeing suspects.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Right it's as dirty as cops coming to your house for warrentless searches and putting their foot in the door way so it's assault if you close it. I get where you're coming from.

But these aren't border patrol agents they're immigration service members who are under the direction of the president of the united states who was specifically elected to put them there.

They can use whatever technicalities they want. You don't get to make their job harder and expect that they don't use whatever is available to them to do what a majority of the country voted for because they don't agree with it.

That's not how it works.

[goaded]

It's one thing to force a situation where the civilian can argue it in court, it's quite another to provoke the situation where you shoot them to death. I'd say that was premeditation.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

You're right, when you decide to put your car in reverse and then drive and there is someone in front of your car, you've lost the right to due process because it's reasonable for that person to think their life is in danger 😂

[goaded]

Not if the car is steering away from you and moving at 2mph.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

It was fast enough to cause internal bleeding in a war vet who went through basic training.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Like dude, you're making it so obvious that you have no interest in having a faithful discussion about the facts... That or you genuinely just don't know anything about being in danger. I'm seriously trying to find a way to give you the benefit of the doubt to explain how it makes sense for you to really believe you're right here. Maybe scan through the conversation again because this is a perfect example of someone who isn't willing to have an honest conversation about something.

[goaded]

A bruise can be accurately described as "internal bleeding". He got an owie. Poor baby. Seriously, he didn't even drop his phone, let alone disturb his aim, and you liars expect anyone to believe he has massive internal injuries from bouncing off the side of a car traveling 2mph?

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Again, you're trying to move the goalposts of the conversation constantly because of how ridiculous your argument is. Again, the guy was taking a video of the plates on the car because it was obvious she might try to run. She made it clear that she was part of an organization. The organization may have been antifa which is a terrorist orginazation.

She doesn't get to decide that the law doesn't apply to her because she doesn't like how the election worked out. The woman was mentally ill and had no business being out there.

Thank God were finally restoring some amount of order and sense to this country.

I'm personally sick of these obnoxious people who think that it's reasonable to drive your car into people and not get treated like well they were just protesting. Fuck you.

That woman's judgement isn't good enough for driving a car. It wasn't good enough to really even be a part of society and she should have been putninna mental facility years ago for hernownngood but instead she's radicalized by these corporations that want free labor

[goaded]

"you're trying to move the goalposts"? Really?

Let's see:
I post: a Philadelphia sheriff explaining that real law enforcement officers don't do what ICE is doing.
You post: something about Philadelphia gangs and animal cruelty.

I post: those criminals aren't shot in their cars while fleeing
You post: "criminals aren't held accountable"

I post "Not killing suspects is not the same thing as letting them go."
You (finally addressing the ICE angle) post: "So you wanted him to put his hands on the hood of the car and stop it like that?"

yadda yadda...

I post that even if Ross was hit by the car, it wasn't enough for him to drop his phone or stop him shooting. (Both obvious facts from his own video.)

You post: "you're trying to move the goalposts".

Once they had her face on camera, and her licence plate, they had absolutely no need to aggressively detain her, they knew who she was and where she lived.

You're not "restoring some amount of order and sense", ICE is invading peaceful communities and unconstitutionally detaining US citizens and even shooting them in the face because they feel they are above the law.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Right, and you're displaying another lack in ability you have to engage with these conversations. I talk about you moving goaposts in a granular part of conversation were having so what do you do? Apply it to the most zoomed out frame of conversation imaginable.

[goaded]

Sure. I'm moving the goalposts, and I have no interest in having a faithful discussion about the facts.

Do you know what DARVO means? ↗

[Telekinetic-Potato]

So you're calling yourself out at this point. You're resorting to jargon because you can't talk intelligently about the points I'm bringing up. You tried changing the frame of the argument and moving goalposts so what's left? It's insanity I think all that's left here is read the conversation over again. I've made all my points. I don't think I really need to engage in this anymore because it can only go circular from here

[goaded]

DARVO and projection.

[David318578]

Well thats nonsense because youtube is filled with videos of police shooting vehicles that are attempting to flee and running over or almost running over cops.. just google it there is tons of them.

Follow the law and you will be ok.. break the law and then attempt to flee when officers are trying to arrest you and use your car to push the officer out of the way is how you get shot.

[AngryCarl2]

No, I'm trying to avoid the news. It makes me too angry.

[goaded]

We need to be angry. Did you know there are supporters of Palestine Action who are close to death on hunger strike? The organisation attacked a couple of places and even hit some security guards (for which they've been charged), but how is that terrorising the populace?

Hell Sinn Fein is still a thing, isn't it? They're not just pensioners protesting an unreasonable designation of a group who are against genocide as terrorists.

[AngryCarl2]

Yes but here's the thing. Me getting angry doesn't do anything except shorten my life expectancy. In the same way hunger strikes only hurt the person who's not eating.

[goaded]

Fair enough. But please vote, and encourage others to vote. The sane outnumber the insane.

[AngryCarl2]

Sure, I like to vote! Even when every political party sucks!

[goaded]

Yes, the UK government is disappointing. At least they've dropped the digital ID idea.

[AngryCarl2]

Yay! I love when Starmer changes his mind because his ideas are all so stupid!

[goaded]

Worse, they're Conservative!

[exitseven]

She is an embarrassment to the badge. A real affirmative action hire that never made a traffic stop in her life. She is just the mouthpiece for democrats. She may be the Sheriff but she is no cop.

[goaded]

And you know this how?

[exitseven]

I know cops and can spot one a mile away. She is no cop. Trust me.

[exitseven]

Besides all the cops I know would support ICE if they were not afraid of losing their pensions

[goaded]

She's the ELECTED sheriff. They should lose their pensions if they support shooting people against all their training.

[exitseven]

We have elected Sheriffs here as well. Some are law enforcement and some are just politicians. Anyone can run for Sheriff and I imagine she is just a democrat echo chamber.

[AngryCarl2]

@exitseven If you don't like the message, defame the messenger. Conservative Asshole 101.

[exitseven]

@AngryCarl2 it is not hard to defame a gasbag like her.

[AngryCarl2]

@exitseven I guess it's also not hard to ignore the shooting to death of an unarmed soccer mom. Provided the shooter's politics are aligned to yours.

[beefcakebradybatson]

As my father would have said, he's as full of ish as a Christmas turkey !!!

[Mike_Hum]

She can barely speak English.