Is there a Disconnect between US Census, Apportionment and Who can Vote in Federal Elections, Is a Change Needed?

[AviatorTom]

The U. S. Constitution (Article I Section 2) mandates a decennial census to ensure fair representation in Congress, allowing for the apportionment of representatives based on the population count.

Over the years, the interpretation of the census clause has evolved. The Fourteenth Amendment further emphasizes counting the "whole number of persons" in each state, which has been interpreted to include all residents, regardless of citizenship status. This interpretation has been upheld by various court rulings, affirming that the census should count everyone living in the U. S.

Federal and state laws require that only Citizens may legally vote in Federal elections.

Non-Citizens are included in the count that determines a state's representatives, but only Citizens are allowed to vote for that representation.

This diagram shows, visually, what is really happening.

An example...

State A and State B each have 1 million PEOPLE.

State A has 200 thousand non-citizens, State B has only citizens.

Each of these states has 10 representatives.

In State A, only 800 thousand people vote for its 10 representatives while in State B, 1 million vote for its 10 representatives. The "one person, one vote" principal is not met.

If only citizens were counted towards representation, State A would have 8 representatives while state B would have 10; "one person, one vote" principal would apply.

Is there a Disconnect between the Census, Apportionment and Federal Elections?

Is a change needed?

Note that states determine how elections are run (Article I, Section 4 )...

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators."

What do you think?

[WindAtMyBack]

Some of this really hit home after the 2010 census. Even though my state was growing slightly in population, it's lost several representatives due to other sates growing faster.

When it really hit home is when I not only lost my representative, but the district itself was eliminated. My representative was fired and told by the party not to run again. I had been voting in that district for a few decades at the time. Many people had been voting there for over 70 years.

For a long time now, over 100% of the population growth has been due to immigration. So people who have been voting for many decades lose their representative to people who just entered. There is over one district per year being lost for existing citizens.

I have tried to find out if illegals are also counted. I've never been able to verify it, but I think they are. So if true, illegals have the equivalent of over a dozen representatives, who should be representing citizens.

I have less than half the representation in Congress that I did when I was born. I have something like 60% of the vote I did when I was first old enough to vote.

[Shiprex]

Have a single transferable vote system. Each count has a winner whose vote then gets divided by two then the next highest gets a candidate win and their vote gets halved, then the next and halved etc. Till the highest total is round 1 winner where they get the next spot but total drops to 1/3 , it goes on etc till all spots are filled.

[strawberryapple]

Let them count everyone and everything. Let them count dogs , cats, illegal aliens, whatever. But the represent representation only goes for legal citizens

[strawberryapple]

Thanks for the MHO

[Chazmatazz269]

Indeed there is, and a simple adjustment would fix it. Any state counting non-citizens should have their citizens’ votes mitigated to 2/5 and the state receives zero federal funding for any purposes whatsoever.

[Massageman]

Sounds great to me.

[msc545]

If the state has two 200,000 or 400,000 extra people living there who are not citizens but live in the state anyway, that means that everything that happens in that state affects them as well. So having extra representatives in a state that has more people is what really counts. You are placing undue emphasis on the fact of citizenship when it really doesn't mean that much. The only place where it is meaningful is in elections, but we're not talking about elections here. We're talking about representation.

I realize you were all for depriving non-citizens if as much as you can. But depriving them of representation is not okay. Any more than depriving enough due process which you people also want to do is not okay.

[exitseven]

Legal residents only should be counted in the census. giving some form of legal recognition to people who are not supposed to be here in the first place is crazy/. Lets count tourists while we are at it.

[goaded]

I don't know about the US, but the UK census counts everyone in the household, including guests.

I can't remember participating in a German one, but that might be because of universal id including addresses. I just looked it up, and there hasn't been a country census since the 1980's, which people complained about, while in the UK public sentiment is very much against ID cards (or at least it used to be, that might have changed).

[Massageman]

Yes. That change is called "honesty".

[Cubus]

I dont know, but you probably helped me, because Im just writing a thesis about it.

[NathanDavis]

the electoral college is the stupidest thing ever... all of it

[goaded]

It's the one aspect of modern democracy that has totally been rejected by every democracy since.

[NathanDavis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ62EfUKI3w

[goaded]

Disconnect: yes.

Change needed: no.

[goaded]

@Shiprex makes a good point. I would go for instant-runoff voting for president, popular vote, get rid of the Electoral College (two Senators per tiny state is enough to amplify their states' voices without regularly imposing unpopular presidents on the majority of the country), and more than just three or four candidates.

[goaded]

Also, is there a federal law that says all voters have to be citizens? It's not in the constitution, although all states require it for federal office.

[DextroShade]

Illegals should not be counted.