Do you see a US–Iran war as a must‑win ‘final war’ for America?

[lightbulb27]

If so, what are you willing to sacrifice? Willing to risk your life to ensure Iran is pacified and oil flows and petro dollar stay in tact?

Right now... for most USA, it's just about the price of oil. For the military, it's about their lives and their families.

For Iran... not sure what this is..."pride", survival?

If USA "loses"... we leave without securing the channel where oil flows, we lose a lot of power. Put our best forward and cannot control oil flows, we get clobbered. Only saving grace would be Trump takes all the blame, some other savior comes in as president adn heals all the wounds. Still seems like we'd be a lot weaker than before.

USA must win

We can lose and be ok

Other

[permanentem]

The USA doesn't need Iranian oil. We currently do not buy Iranian oil. Only 8-9% of oil consumed by the USA comes from the Middle East (mainly Saudi Arabia & Iraq) and that oil can be sent by pipe line to the Red Sea in Yanbu. We don't even need to buy that oil, but we do as part of trade relationships. When we buy their oil, they buy other products from us like military equipment, telecommunications equipment, etc. so it's all part of balancing trade.

America has no need to secure the Strait of Hormuz. The main reason Trump asked other countries to assist in securing the Strait of Hormuz was to test their loyalty to America in our alliances. They failed. Thus they are not real allies. Thus we have a solid case for not expending, blood and treasure to defend them any longer. This saves America billions of dollars and countless lives.

Another reason was to expose the City of London banking/insurance cartel so that people could see how state sponsor terror, oil futures, and shipping insurance all run together to allow the city of London skim a percentage off of every transaction which drive oil up $15 a barrel. When America went to war with the Barbary Pirates it's because they were terrorizing our shipping just like Iran is doing today. Guess what they were also Muslims (Ottoman Empire). The English and the French would pay the Muslim pirates to leave British shipping alone and to terrorize their competitors. The same is true today with the City of London and Iranian terrorists. Let me remind you, Thomas Jefferson wasn't having that and said if you touch our boats we will fuck your shit up. That's the game we are playing right now with the Muslims, while we expose the City of London.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/lcJhmm3D3OY

That said, American companies did invest in the infrastructure of Kharg Island, and it was illegal confiscated during the Iranian revolution. So technically it is ours. While that is currently not a stated war goal, removing it from China's hands would be beneficial to the USA. We invested in it, and China is reaping the benefits, so we should take that back even if we don't need it just to check China.

[permanentem]

So America has already won by huge margins by exposing false allies and exposing banking cartels as well as destroying Iran's ability to project power in the region. America warfare is like an onion. There's layers to this shit and you will cry and it will hurt.

[permanentem]

Not to mention we're collapsing Islam for the Kingdom of God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrclVmRiw0w

[MikeMcMansion]

God certainly isn’t with the leaders of any European country either

[permanentem]

@MikeMcMansion That's because the leaders of European countries at the moment are Islamic Freemasons that have infiltrated the government. The people of the continent need to wake up and throw off the chains of Islamic slavery.

[lightbulb27]

if the Dr. pulls a bandaid off and says "It ain't me bleeding" and calls other Dr's in whom is their patient and says, "I'm going to play golf"... does that work out in the end for the Dr?

the problem is the one we see, unless all the local attack abilities are gone (missiles) or they decide not to, they can ravage the middle east. That forces a ground war, which is what they want, as we'd be in another vietnam.

[permanentem]

In the mean time the Arab world will devolve into war, the The Strait of Hormuz will remain closed creating volatility in European and Asian oil markets. Europe will become crippled with high energy prices, and the USA will gain leverage over maritime interests. Europe may fold over America's interest in Greenland. You may see a restoration of US shipbuilding and US Merchant Marine. America might become the insurer of last resort for international shipping. The world will be forced to play ball with the USA because their navies are too weak to protect their own trade routes.

[permanentem]

You're entirely missing the point lightbulb27. America doesn't need Middle East oil. America doesn't have to fight a ground war for it. America doesn't have to defend the The Strait of Hormuz. America can allow the world to collapse and do just fine over in our hemisphere. America can pull out of NATO. It's a problem for Europe and Asia and they are too weak to solve it. Thus, they have to offer concessions to the USA in order to negotiate a resolution that will prevent their entire continent from economic collapse and social upheaval. America is fine either way.

[permanentem]

It is you guys that are in trouble... Play ball or fall.

[lightbulb27]

your point is interesting, and sure we can and leave them to slug it out. We rely on a lot from elsewhere, that will be a mess. is that the plan or side effect?

[permanentem]

Like I said, it is their problem. We know it... They know it... They now know that we know it... That's why today they decided to get off their asses and stop being freeloaders and started to give into our demands... We have the leverage, and they are forced to make concessions.

[lightbulb27]

That is right.

[MikeMcMansion]

I already gave my youth to them. What a stupid mistake.

[lightbulb27]

For that, you get MHO. Id like to know more...
My relatives were in the military, usually by draft. Noone told me to go into the military and all said to stay out.
I'd go if I had to. I respect those that go in on their own when it's their calling. But it definitely can be a bad experience or a good one, depends.

[MikeMcMansion]

05 06 in Iraq military intelligence would come by and plant Iranian passports or something signifying they were iranian actors on our iraqi detainees we either were told to go find at their last known location or in the aftermath of contact. We sat around in observation points a lot of times. There wasn’t much a lower enlisted guy who was 18-19 would know but I at least was there hearing the squad leaders talk about how retarded it all seemed.

It seems the intelligence agencies have been after Iran almost since they changed their name in 1935

[katiesmuff]

As it has been with every conflict we've gotten ourselves into since WW2 their will be NO win. Korea a draw, Viet Nam US pullout after 50,000 dead US personal, Iraq basically still going on, Afghanistan US (under trumps term) retreated and pulled out, Ukraine, still on going with us lessing support under the genius trump, and the Gasa mess which we stuck our noses into for shits and giggles I guess, and now Iran which will do nothing but cause useless loss of American lives because this fucking loony toon retard trump started because he had a feeling.

[lightbulb27]

Agree with lot of that. Note that Korea worked out, South Korea saved, so that's a costly police action win. If your neighbors house was invaded by illegal immigrant squatters and yours was next... a police action ensued costing 10 policement... but their house was saved. Youd call that a win right, eventhough was costly. yes? Anyone whom died or lost someone sees it as a loss.

And China has been building our plastic toys and cheap car parts for decades, that's a win.

Keep in mind the loony Biden was engaged in battle with Huthi's (Iran proxies) and some Americans died in that as well (in Iraq). He was bombing the crap of them. Been an area of conflict for long time.

Was it necessary to escalate immediately, doubt it. Will it end well, dout it. don't see a win scenario.

So enjoy the good ole days while they last...

[FreyaRed]

There is no political victory condition for US in this conflict, since a regime change seems to be unlikely. Some regime changes happen in Gulf states soon but I don't think in Iran. Saudi Arabia as example. They spent more than a billion for US weapons, but then US wasn't willing to defend them and weapons they bought are less effective against cheap drones which attack their oil and gas infrastructure. I'm pretty sure there will be paradigm change in Saudi Arabia in matter of relation with US and Israel.

[WindAtMyBack]

It depends on what the goal is. It's not up to the US to "win". It's up to the people of Iran. The US has given them a boost, so now it depends on them. If they can't step up and do what needs to be done, there is not much the US can do about it.

With a regime change, most of the rest should fall into place. The trick is for the Iranian people to keep their gain if they get it. That will not be easy. They will need a lot of support for a long time, and not just from the US. The fanatics who want to control with an iron grip will not go away. They will always be a threat.

This has been going on my entire life. As far as I'm concerned, it's all part of the same thing, not some new war that started. There is plenty of pressure for change from without and from within, but it's not an easy thing to do.

It should not be the goal of the US to "defeat" Iran. They are not even at war with Iran. They are at war with a minority group of fanatics. Those fanatics have gotten too strong and out of control. They need to be cut down to size and sent a clear message, not completely destroyed. We can't destroy them anyway. The entire world combined can't destroy them. You just have to take away some of their power and control and hope it's enough.

Winning against fanatics like that is like winning against criminals. They are not going to go away. But by allowing them to continue unchecked is not the right message.

[lightbulb27]

they have nothing to fight with and have been mowed down. they know that. they've tried.
it be surprising for them to take over such a large heavily armed and murderous army.

[WindAtMyBack]

They have to do it anyway. There is no way around it. Otherwise the same shit that's been happening for decades will continue. The US can help cut down the size of that murderous army, but they can't eliminate it, nor should they. The reality is that the people of Iran are going to die, or continue with things as they have been. That's just how things work. It's not going to happen without bloodshed.

[Bricealan]

@lightbulb27 "Only saving grace would be Trump takes all the blame; some other savior comes in as president and heals all the wounds". Wow! Spoken like a true American patriot!! A savior comes in as president and heals all the 'wounds"?

Maybe you could resurrect Jimmy Carter to "heal all the wounds" ?

[lightbulb27]

Maybe President Oprah? I dunno whom could pull it off...
You do see that Trump has changed the dynamic, yes?

[Lliam]

We can't win so, at some point, Trump is going to have to declare "mission accomplished" and try to save face.

He should have never attacked Iran in the first place, but his Zionist advisors who are loyal to Israel and not the USA, and know nothing about actually conducting warfare, talked him into it. There was no reason for it other than to obey Israel.

It was counterproductive.
It united the Iranian people, just like Americans came together after 911. Gulf states are questioning their loyalty to the U. S. And other countries around the world are questioning U. S. leadership and military capability.

On the other hand, Israel is getting pounded, which is fantastic.

[Zack-Bann]

There is no such thing as a final war
Geopolitics don’t work that way


But it is a must win for sure
Iran’s fall is long overdue and will have a lot of positive impact on many aspects of economy, trade, social development, and much more.


The people crying about it and saying it’s a “lost war” are just blind and deluded Trump haters will have long since closed their ears to any form of reason and will blindly side against any side the man takes
Even when it starts to air on the side of capital treason


Not to mention the war is a slam dunk at this point.
It’s a one sided beat down with minimal casualties.
It’s not like the other wars where the US got deadlocked with years of boots on the ground and endless deaths.

[abc3643]

I do think it is a must win. Less than that is akin to when Carter tried to rescue the hostages and failed. That single event in April 1980 which result in 444 days of hostages, combined with the December 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (which led to the USA boycotting the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow) was a culmination of disrespect for America. This gave us Reagan, which restored that respect, but also led us down a disasterous path that we are still suffering from.

I'd like to see Trump and the Israelis finish of this theocratic regime which has been nothing but trouble since the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Wipe them out and the Middle East becomes a much better and civilized place.

[BonzoInBitburg]

A win would mean mission accomplished. What's the mission? Regime change or blow up some nuclear facilities? If it's regime change than this is going to last a long time and cost a lot of lives. If Trump just wants to blow things up, he'll have to keep coming back every 6 months when Iran rebuilds. Unfortunately, there's no plan

[lightbulb27]

A win seems to be Iran no longer threatenes the flow of blood oil through that channel nor israel. anything else is a stalement at best or a loss.

[BonzoInBitburg]

The Strait of Hormuz can basically be shut down by a few guys on shore with rocket launchers. Just the threat of that will prevent any sane boat captain from guiding a ship through there.

[MrChinaski]

My forecast.

At some point Trump just pulls out. Iran blows up a few ships and eventually gets bored of doing that. The world economy returns to normal in 3-6 months having made a bunch of people needlessly poor and unemployed for a bit. The Iranian regime is entrenched; their main lesson is that having the ability to build The Bomb isn't a strong enough deterrent and they will go ahead and build The Bomb, a la North Korea. And a whole new generation of young Muslims now have a passionate hatred for the USA and a thirst for revenge... starting with the families of the schoolgirls killed on the first day of fighting.

And so the millennium-long internecine conflict goes on and on and on...

[Anonymous]

Naturally, as an American, I would prioritize my country's interests. However, from a Turkish perspective, the situation is different. Regardless of our stance on the Iranian regime or our desire for a secular Iran, a forced victory by the US and Israel could lead to the disintegration of Iran. This would inevitably result in another refugee crisis for Turkey, much like the Syrian conflict. Therefore, for the sake of regional stability and Iran’s territorial integrity, I hope the US does not prevail.

[lightbulb27]

I wonder as well if it results in more radicals worst than the priors. That is my guess. Young people are notroiously more nuts than their elders.

[purplepoppy]

America has already lost. This is Vietnam all over again. Iran has being planning for this war for decades, they expect their cities to be flattened and in this multimedia age that is easily turned into a weapon to demonise the USA.

Trump says it's about helping ordinary Iranians but he's still killing their children and flattening their homes. America lost Vietnam largely because of news footage, this will go the same way. It's why other countries don't want to help.

[MrChinaski]

That's not a fair comparison at all. Vietnam had a way better soundtrack.

[CaptainSmartass]

@MrChinaski I wish I could thumbs-up your comment.

[Lisa_grl]

War shouldn't be political. It never used to be. We should accept the fact that maybe our NSA and Cia people know some pretty bad stuff was otw. We used to accept it for the greater good.

[lightbulb27]

that was too deep for me...

[michael3478]

Trump is an idiot im more conservative, but he has made a tragic mistake and completely ruined JD Vance chance of getting elected just how Biden ruined Kamala's chances of getting elected. Nobody will want to see any of their faces again. Im not even going to vote for next election i give up let Hitler the second take over and i Don't give a crap anymore.

[DonaldDarko]

It's more about finance and who controls shipping. It's not much of a war. Iran was on It's last legs shooting protesters in the street. We just gave them air support. We're preserving as much infrastructure as we can for when the opposition takes over.

[Anonymous]

I really can't stand war or you can say: I hate war.

Humanity dies every time.

So sad that there is so much war in the world. It is not the only war where people now die.

If I had a wish: end all wars in the world.

Those behind the wars never enter the battlefield ... the war makers always send other to death on the battlefield. Right?

[lightbulb27]

So true, General Smedly Clark said the same. It's a racket...

[lightbulb27]

It's always the poor, unsuspecting that cannot escape that pay the price.

[Anonymous]

Its about knocking over the anthill. Iran has money and resources to supply terrorists and launch rockets. Let's see how they do after this. After the 1991 Gulf war iraq never recovered

[Anonymous]

There is never a “final war”.

Donald Trump ran on ending Afghan War in 2016 then didn’t so, Joesph R. Biden ran on ending Afghan War in 2020.
Then the next thing was Ukraine War then the next was Israel - Hamas War then the next became Venezula Power Grab then it became Iran.

It never ends. It never ends. America is an imperialistic parasite on the world stage.

[Opinion Owner]

* And World War I and World War II we didn’t do it to protect our allies , we did it to protect ourselves.
Zimmerman Telegram from Germany asking Mexico to invade American soil sent us to WWI at the end of the war which was done in part by public backlash from Lusitania sinking by German U Boats.
World War II was entered by Pearl Harbor bombed by Japan in surprise attack and Nazi Germany’s declaration of war on USA.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

first of all this isn't even a war. congress has not declared this a war yet. and it has absolutely nothing to do with oil. it has to do with preventing Iran from become the threat they have become since Obama sent them the $1.7 billions that he sent them in 2016

[WeezertheTeazer]

Hell of a circus and more that Washington DC is turning into!!

[msc545]

We have already lost this ridiculous war. The best thing that can happen is for us to go away, lick our wounds, and for the price of oil to return to something like normal someday, and for Trump to leave office. If this thing precipitates the impeachment of Trump, it will have been well worth it.

[Master_Debator]

Who said it's a final war? ... and we basically already won... we're just making sure we get rid of the rest of the problems that could come back to haunt us. ... just like it did already over and over in the last 40+ years.

[NathanDavis]

if not all... of the oil

till they ensure control/profit from most of the oil

they could settle for that too

[jshm2]

The USA has technically never won a war, so it's a moot point.

But this is the last chance for US and Israeli nation stealing.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Both.

But i will prefer USA to win in order to give a suport to the iranians people to take down their regim.

[Dargil]

The final war will probably take place while the country balkanizes. All good things must come to an end. But deplorables will survive.

[OneViewpoint]

Final war? No fucking way. The US economy is built on war at this point.

[Sal_Monella]

The last war that we will fight will be our own Balkanization. I see that coming within 10 to 20 years. The American experiment is over. For the formation of smaller countries. Or maybe worse.

[TonyMetal___86]

I'm not a U. S citizen but yes the U. S must and WILL win the war, it's not only about the oil, the regime in this country is a real threat to the whole world!

[AviatorTom]

No one really wins in a war. The only thing war does is facilitate change, hopefully for the better

[loveslongnails]

It can be negotiated away, or Trump can just die and leave the other idiot holding the bag who may listen to his generals and find a way out.

[KostasKouvalis]

Not neccessarily final, but Must Win 100%. Because Ayatollah Jr. will be out for blood. American blood

[Jeff51]

We should win this but countries have been going to war for centuries. War is not a new thing. people think ohh no about war. They should read the history books.

[Pterodon]

No it isn’t about oil. It’s about them spreading terrorism and killing Americans. The oil is just a perk. They will be conquered and defeated not getting them in line

[exitseven]

The war is already won. The real Must-Win war is with the. democrats in November.

[Snakeyes7]

I am not interested in finding out whether or not they are bluffing about the whole "death to America" chants.

[jahaims]

No, it's America flailing around trying to stop brics from crashing the dollar

[Anonymous]

It probably depends on what you mean by "win". It would be very bad for us if we got handled like Russia did in Ukraine.

[Kelly6]

@lightbulb27 Withdraw is the best option

[lightbulb27]

It is an option isn't it... just leave and say "were done here", hope it rreturns to normal. What if Iran doesn't allow ships through though? Then someone has to go and take them out.

Honestly, it might be the best option in short term to try, the first option given the situation. There's no way around it... we attacked them. The risk of this is of course getting leadership that is many times worse than the last and the people suffering even more. Generally speaking, ya don't tear out a govt and leave...

[Kelly6]

@lightbulb27
Yup

[Jennz6]

WW 111 if we don’t win

[In_Trance]

It's like watching an old episode of GI Joe

[Anonymous]

I don't think so.