Can someone explain the logic behind wanting legal immigration?

[Anonymous]

So, I made a question about the logic for open borders a few months ago

Can someone explain the logic behind an open borders policy for a country?

Now I'm moving onto legal immigration

I'm sure there's plenty of emotional arguments for wanting legal immigration

but are there any logical arguments for needing legal immigration?

as in it'd be an absolutely detestable travesty if legal immigration was completed banned period and is considered one of the worst things imaginable

[Effably]

If we skip the humane parts? Profit.

Raising a human from 0 to 20 year olds costs, in just hypothetical ballpark number 400 000$.

Covering food, housing and more for a year while someone gets integrated in society costs perhaps 25 000$.

As such every successfully integrated 20 year old, even before considering outside expertise, cultural enrichment and so on, can be a net profit of a few hundred thousand dollars.

This however assumes functional integration. Integration is therefore the normal talking point. In cold numbers if any country invests say 100 000$ in each immigrant that would be a highly profitable investment.

In general if a country does not want to put in any effort itself then work related immigration or immigration during labour shortages are highly desirable. Immigration when the market is saturated is not, as it requires an investment. It is, again, highly profitable if that investment is made.

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[Effably]

In what way? Banning immigration is beyond stupid for any country so in that sense, yes. Morally? Any country that is making that decision is probably not a good place.

I think you associate immigration with something bad. If you are from the US the overwhelming majority of specialists, which is what holds the country up when comparing to other countries, are immigrants or immigrant born. USA would have collapsed otherwise. Direct immigrants account for roughly 50% of all PhDs in USA. If we add in the criteria of born to an immigrant we are well above 80%. The majority of the best and the brightest are, with no exaggeration, immigrants. Stopping immigration is like a Football club deciding to only get new talent from the kids of their previous players. While probably good in their own right, how long before the best club is the worst? One generation? Two? Probably one, if they even get to play in the league.

There is no question of immigration being good or bad. It is good. The question is what restrictions, if any, and how to implement it. Free resources is great. You just need a way to handle them well. Even less specialised labour is worth hundreds of thousands.

Now if I gave you three kitchens full of food and you sat it to rot on a counter? That'd be bad. But that is what is going on.

[Asker]

that was a personal question to you

as if hypothetically all immigration was banned tomorrow, would you go out and protest your government to let people into your country

[Effably]

The question was not very personal. I just tried to help you see immigration from a neutral point of view.

You basically get a resource. Sometimes it is only positives. Sometimes it has caveats. Ultimately if you know what to do with, immigration is near always good.

My country is in a unique position of an overburdened immigration system and a saturated market. We would benefit from limiting it somewhat for a period of time.

If there hypothetically was a ban to all immigration I would object o the basis that it is dumb. It is like a company banning all hiring. That is dumb. You might not be looking to hire. You might be slimming the company down even. You never ban hiring.

[WindAtMyBack]

There is not much solid logical reasoning for legal immigration, except when there is a severe shortage of people with the necessary skills and education. Even then, the market should be given a chance to self adjust first. When there is a shortage, pay should go up. Which in turn should increase the number of people entering the field.

There are also problems like the severe shortage of doctors. This is largely due to a shortage of medical schools. By the time you build medical schools, hire staff, get students through med school, residency, and specialty school, the pipeline is a good 10-15 years or more. We have a shortage right now and can't wait 10-15 years.

However, the argument for the largest number of immigrants is that they don't want to separate families. The largest number of immigrants are family sponsored. That is not a "need" though.

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[WindAtMyBack]

"would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned? "

I wouldn't lose sleep, but I'd think there was a better compromise between limiting it and completely banning it.

[FreyaRed]

Illegal immigrant are beneficial for small rich group of people who exploit them as slave workforce and people who are living from human trafficking, but they are disastrous for society due their incapability with developed societies.
Of course not all illegals are the same their usefulness level for a society differs and their threat level does it a wall.

[Asker]

the question is pertaining to legal immigration

[OneViewpoint]

You're a special kind of stupid if you cannot understand why legal (controlled) immigration has been a part of the US growth strategy from the beginning and why nearly every country on Earth uses that strategy today to enhance their economy.

Maybe you should stick to your White Nazi chat room.

[Asker]

none of this logic. just emotional arguments

your "logic" could be used to justify Christianity too (as it has been part of the US from the beginning) but we both know you have a hate boner for Christianity and wouldn't want to justify it

[OneViewpoint]

Once again your false equivalency MAGA brain creates stupid logic. Christianity was never a government policy, Growth through immigration was THE government policy that built this country.

Yes, there was also clothing since the beginning. And food. And oxen. What's your point. Would you like to name some other irrelevant fact that has nothing to do with government policy?

[Asker]

Christianity is in all the founding documents you libtard. the founding fathers were all Christian and the laws governing the country were built on Christian principles

Immigration came in waves. not an endless constant flow like it is today and growth mostly came in loving couples having large families and passing on skills they have now been lost today

but you wouldn't know that because libtards don't know their history

you're too busy getting upset but not understanding why you'd get upset over a potential immigration ban

[genericname85]

A country that has declining birth rates should want legal immigration cause there's a hole host of issues that comes with aging societies and a society should try to keep being stable. Obviously getting the birth rates up would be better but yeah.

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[genericname85]

no. it's just a massive problem especially in my country specifically. i don't know if you're aware but in my country, there's a governmental retirement fund. so basically everyone that works pays into it so that everyone can retire and not have to work till they die. but now we have birth rates of like 1.3 children per women so basically that system will not work anymore soon cause so few people are paying into the fund and so many are taking from it. so without immigration, basically my retiremend fund is melting away and i'll probably have to create a private retirement fund which in this economy is impossible.

[KostasKouvalis]

Cheap labor for crappy jobs. Tucker Carlson said straight up, "Before we were taking immigrants because we needed factory workers, now we no longer do, so we have no need for immigrants. Americans are selfish assholes. They only know how to take advantage of people."

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[KostasKouvalis]

Hell no

[strateguy632]

"Completely banned " immigration would keep out people who might contribute benefit. Who would motivate competition for quality workers. Of course that is also a fantasy because immigration is not aimed at this.

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[exitseven]

We should have legal immigration but we should just accept people that are educated and never convicted of a crime.

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[exitseven]

Not really. We just need to improve the public schools. They are a joke and we are not producing people with the right skills.

[In_Trance]

It increases the total number of taxpayers... More revenue

[Asker]

would you lose sleep if legal immigration was also banned?

[Dargil]

Whose logic?

[Asker]

that's what I'm trying to get out of the users here