Are you really still convinced US privatized healthcare isn’t a scam?

[OneViewpoint]

[katiesmuff]

That video gives some things to think about for sure. What bothers me however about the social medicine aspect is using Canada as an example. I am from South Florida where our winters are flocked full of affluent Canadians who are great people and love having them around and their biggest complaint about their healthcare is the limits and time to get anything done. I'm thinking if this is an issue in Canada which is so much like the US I'm not sure socialized medicine is the answer.

My feeling is that here our biggest issue with healthcare happened when the insurance industry which is full of nothing but lousy filthy rich greedy billionaires and their Hedge fund groups which buy perfectly well run hospitals and suck all the profit out of them, then walk away. When doing this they have also forced doctors to join their medical associations in order to practice in that facility turning that practice into a zoo.

It will never change in the US until we get a government that isn't run and operated on GREED with our representees actually focusing on working for us and not filling their pockets.

[OneViewpoint]

@katiesmuff,

So the problem is private sector greed and and billionaires buying our government. Given our Capitalist corruption, is healthcare something you want in the hands of insurance companies and private equity focused on return on investment for wealthy investors? The net result of that, maybe not for you and I, but for a large segment of the population, is healthcare is out of reach, unaffordable.

If they do try to use the system, they end up deep in medical debt and bankruptcy. They pay outrageous premiums to insurance companies only to have their claims denied so the CEO can get a bigger bonus by hitting his earnings target. Is that White Collar murder?

Forget about wait times. These people have no choice but to skip even standing in line. They are expected to simply die... quickly, quietly, and dead broke. Every bit of wealth drained out of them to pay for mansions, yachts, and private jets. Is that a "great society"?

Yes, socialized medicine may not be perfect. Especially in our current instant gratification society for the spoiled people. But would it be better than corporate murder for 99% of the population? For healthcare workers who are worked like plow horses in under staffed conditions to increase profits?

I don't see how we can do worse than murder and robbery to enrich 1% of the population.

[loveslongnails]

I have many friends from all over Canada, from coast to coast. Some are nurses so the information I'm offering isn't third hand, it's experiential. We are often told "Canadiens have to wait months for essential care", and that's simply not true. What IS true then? The waiting is for elective care, or what they consider secondary care. The problem is what they define it as, which I don't always agree with.

For example, if you need a hip or knee replacement from an accident or fall, you'll get in quickly as long as your doc says it's needed right away. But if it's been a condition that deteriorated over a year let's say, and you now decide your quality of life demands something be done, you're likely to wait a long time. Again, I agree that sucks, but there ARE ways around it. Other countries with socialized medicine have figured this out, but the insurance industry in the USA just LOVES to point at Canada as a failed example of what could happen to you!

[OneViewpoint]

@loveslongnails ,

I have relatives in the Canadian Maritimes, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. They seem perfectly happy with their healthcare system. We've had the conversation many times. They are not worried about going bankrupt with medical debt. They aren't worried about not being covered. Everyone everywhere bitches about wait times in our instant gratification society.

I live in a fairly wealthy area and with people leaving the medical field in disgust and burnout, it takes 2 - 3 months to get an appointment for anything that isn't an emergency and many doctors are refusing to take new patients.

The US healthcare system is an utter failure for 50% of the population. Another 40% are being financially butt raped by insurance premiums, copays, and deductibles along with denied claims. All so a CEO can hit his earnings target for a bonus and investors can profit from essentially corporate murder.

[loveslongnails]

You're preaching to the choir about the US system. My S. O. has worked on the policy side of it for over 15 years, along with states and even Congress. We're more than familiar with what's gone on and why.

I don't know where you live, and as always, there's anecdotal evidence to support just about anything, which is why I specified much of my info is coming from nurses as well as friends. The Canadians I know are generally fine with their system, but again, some have waited long periods of time for things they felt worsened during the wait.

As with any single payer health system, it's driven by how many doctors, nurses, specialists and facilities you have, and accessibility of locations. There's also a culture wrapped into it depending where you live, and the USA as you said, has nothing but a "treat the symptoms" culture operated by greed.

The horrifying part is it's not likely to ever change unless you burn the entire corporate control of health systems to the ground, and the rich will never let that happen.

[OneViewpoint]

@loveslongnails ,

Ummmmm... so we burn the rich to the ground first.

[loveslongnails]

You would somehow, suddenly have to convince corporations and elected officials that having healthy citizens is a good thing, as well as properly educated citizens. I think you know where that would end up.

[OneViewpoint]

@loveslongnails ,

Armed rebellions / revolutions have a way of getting the attention of politicians and corporate leaders. They see life differently with a noose around their neck.

[loveslongnails]

That would certainly change one's perspective. :)

[abc3643]

I don't think that's a fair assessment.

Health care in the United States has ALWAYS been privatized since the dawn of the republic. The only public healthcare is that of the military and prisoners, maybe some others I am not thinking of.

The problem - and there is a problem - is the concept of the health maintenance organization (HMOs). This was born during Nixon Administration with the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973.

From Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Maintenance_Organization_Act_of_1973

Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) is a term first conceived of by Dr. Paul M. Ellwood, Jr. The concept for the HMO Act began with discussions Ellwood and his Interstudy group members had with Nixon administration advisors who were looking for a way to curb medical inflation. The way the administration intended to lower inflation was by providing less healthcare coverage. In a recording from the Oval Office, Nixon advisor John Ehrlichman told the president "All the incentives are toward less medical care, because the less care they give them, the more money they make."

Yep, that's the GOP for you: Fuck over people so the rich get richer.

Frankly, there should be no private insurance industry; it should all be nationalized or public. After all, isn't that what "United We Stand" supposed to mean?

And, in the Preamble, "provide for the common defence"... that should include defense against illness and the microscopic things trying to kill us as well.

[abc3643]

Apparently, @indissoluble, like most children, doesn't like being told what they do not want to hear. Being blocked, I will simply leave him with this:

Believe what you wish.
However, I have some advice to you that, as a scientific professional, I have been aware of since before you were born:

Nature does not care what you think or feel or believe. Nature does not care about you, your children and family, your community, your society, or even your species. Nature only speaks in bottom lines. So, you can choose to learn and understand what Nature is saying or ignore it. Learn and understand and you just might survive or even flourish. Failure to do so and you live in danger even if you don't realize it and will suffer any consequences accordingly. Nature does not care and it will show no mercy whatsoever.

[loveslongnails]

I can't imagine anyone with a functional brain thinking it isn't, but that leaves out at least 77 million people immediately.

The bottom line is, there's absolutely NO reason for health insurance companies to exist other than to provide added services. For example, if your government plan gives you a shared room and you prefer a private one or specific hospital, you buy a supplemental plan. In other countries, these companies are not all "for profit" organizations. Many are offered through banks, employers or municipalities and are strictly non-profit. France, Italy, Portugal, Spain have such plans.

This scam system is embedded in the USA and is not likely to change because billionaires control it. That's why Repubs lost their minds when the ACA was passed, which was only a stop gap measure. They refused to refine it and make it work better because, well, that would cut into the profits of big health care companies. And subsidies? No money for that, it's got to go to the Defense budget. Etc, etc.

It's one of the biggest scams the citizens of the USA face every day, along with food, energy prices and housing costs. Phone and internet service is another big one.

[ohsheeT]

I dont care what it is any more it seems like everything is a scam food is not food anymore it's all chemicals


Anything that is made that you buy it's not even close to what they say it is and they get away with it

All these doctors are coming out with natural herbs that I believe in but if you listen to their sales pitch like on YouTube they all say the exact same things every single one of them I would say it's big Pharma trying to fuck you up so then you go to big Pharma and you get there fake bullshit that makes you sicker

Gas prices go up hydrogen's free just about but nobody will talk about it

[indissoluble]

Universal healthcare is a major scam as is health insurance which is just collectivism in a different wrapper. You socialist are fucking dumb as rocks. You are fighting over models of socialism and you don't even know it. You hate socialism, but you want to replace it with more socialism.

[indissoluble]

You're a bunch of fucking retards.

[indissoluble]

Socialism isn't working for me, so lets have a revolution and replace it with more socialism. It will work this time I'm telling you. Trust me bro. You are fucking brain dead.

[abc3643]

You understand - right? - that the US Military is the largest, most successful, and oldest socialist program in the world. It was MANDATED to be socialist in the Preamble to the US Constitution:

The Preamble
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility,

>>>>> provide for the common defence, <<<<<

promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[indissoluble]

@abc3643 You sound fucking retarded when you say shit like that given the history of the military in the United States. We have raised an Army and then disbanded an army a number of times and relied on state militias for much of our history. In War time, America raises an army, and in peace time we have scaled it back until recent history. For example a "National Army" was raised in 1917 to fight WWI. Then later the "Army of the United States" (AUS) was formed in February of 1941 to fight WWII. Then post WWII, "NATO" was formed April 1949 and now we are at a point were NATO will be disband and troops will return home. So quite frankly you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

[indissoluble]

@abc3643 This is specifically one of the issues Trump is addressing in his Presidency, "forever wars". America did not use to be involved in forever wars, but was dragged into policing the world and maintaining a foothold in Europe since the end of WWII to protect the European elite who leach off of our economy. America is returning to our normal way of doing things. We raise an Army when we need to protect our nation and then scale it back in peace time. No more free rides for you socialist faggots. Get a job.

[indissoluble]

@abc3643 This is why the UK is now preparing for a war footing, France is planning to expand their navy with a new nuclear powered carrier and some subs, and why Germany will not let their citizens leave the country without permission because they need to be able to conscript soldiers as they expand their military. Europe understands that NATO is being disbanded and that they now have to carry their own weight in a new world.

[indissoluble]

@abc3643 This is why the Constitution of the United States recognizes that Americans have a right to bear arms, because culturally we are independent free people and we manage our own safety. When needed we raise a militia and for larger conflicts we field a standing army. Ultimately though it comes back to personal responsibility to maintain the cultural heritage of an American rifleman that can serve as a member of a militia or a standing army in time of need to protect our way of life.

[abc3643]

Of course you think I'm retarded...

"In an insane world, the sane man appears insane."

What I said still stands whether you like it or not.
I don't know about you, but I worked for a defense think tank and had to register for the draft while you were still swimming in your father's balls.

[indissoluble]

@abc3643 You are just factually wrong and you can't even learn that when it is pointed out to you. That's why you are retarded, because your IQ is so low that you are incapable of learning. There is literally no "US Military". The current raised armies of the United States are the the "Army of the United States" (AUS) and "NATO". NATO (1949) would be an example of socialism due to the Marshal Plan (1948) funding the redevelopment and defense of Europe, but the CCP is older being that it was founded in 1921 and still stands today in the PRC. Your thinking has definitely tanked. You're a nincompoop.

[CyberGhost615]

Sweet summer child. Try going to a ER in America and then in Germany. From personal experiences, America is better. Plus, in most European countries, universal healthcare is a welfare program. The average working class person wouldn’t qualify because they make too much money and are required to pay for private healthcare.

[Texaskid1]

It is a very good scam.

Every study out there says that what you would pay in taxes for socialized medicine is far less then what the premiums would be for private health care.

[OneViewpoint]

So you've bought into the fake studies / propaganda funded by the health insurance companies. Congratulations. Smoking is good for you too. It's "manly". But math is not your strength.

[Mike_Hum]

Wow you're going all in on this bimbo, eh? she's still not gonna fuck you.

The problem with healthcare is government interference in the market, not the free market.

[OneViewpoint]

Damn you are stupid.

[Mike_Hum]

I can get why you'd say that. When something challenges the propaganda you've been fed your whole life, new, factual information can be disconcerting to you.

[OneViewpoint]

@mikey_cum_slurper

ROFL @ you pretending you know what a fact is.

And a MAGA cultist accusing someone else of projection is the ultimate projection.

And propaganda accusations from a MAGA cultist. You people live on nothing but propaganda from dark web chat room echo chambers.

[Mike_Hum]

Thanks for proving how fucktarded you are

[MrChinaski]

You can make up your own mind whether 'scam' is the right word. But you pay easily 50% more for healthcare than other rich countries and have poorer health outcomes than many.

[NathanDavis]

it's controlled by Scam companies

also known as Health Insurance companies...

[Snakeyes7]

This isn't technically privatized. It's a scam now because the government "tried" to make it affordable. Everything the state touches turns to shit.

[OneViewpoint]

Apparently you don't understand what privatized means or understand the current health insurance industry in the USA. Trust me on this, I used to manage healthcare for 26 companies in a Private Equity portfolio and I sat on a healthcare steering committee for the Private Equity industry for about 7 years. We had a pooled 600 companies under our control. I've negotiated with the C-Level leadership of United, Cigna, Aetna, and Anthem. I've looked at starting a PE specific PBM and negotiated with existing large PBM's. I've had various consultants, large national healthcare brokers, on the payroll to educate and advise me. I know the industry down to the nuts and bolts level.

[Snakeyes7]

Is the state involved in any sort? Taxpayer funding for example?

[Snakeyes7]

Actually let me expand on that.

Is it a government run utility? Does the government subsidize it or bail it out with funds? Does the
government give it a special permit to operate
to the exclusion of others? Does the government mandate the use/acceptance of the good/service
provided? Is it really just the government acting? Is the transaction based on violence, i. e. lacking
consent?

If the answer to any of these is yes, then there is nothing private about and is really private in name only.

[OneViewpoint]

So you're a Libertarian Sovereign Citizen. I'm sorry I don't speak cult psycho. Maybe you runn that confused mess through Google Translate.

[Snakeyes7]

Is the state involved at all? Yes or no.

[lightbulb27]

It's a government messed up jacked up mess...

[goaded]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CeDOQpfaUc8

It's insane.

[slatyb]

I'm more than convinced that it's better in every other developed country.

[msc545]

Of course it's a scam. Almost everything like this in the United States is based on a scam

[DryGermanGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvUFqaGeJDg

[Jeff51]

All a scam.