Do you trust solemn public promises?

[BCRanger10]

Whether it's a marriage vow, an oath of office, or some other public promise, do you trust it? Do you trust the person making it? Or does it depend on the situation?

[OneViewpoint]

The oath can't be trusted or not trusted, it's just words on paper. The oath will never be what fails. If there is failure it will always come from the person who takes the oath and makes the promises.

And people are a complete unknown until they either live up to a challenge or fall apart like wet toilet paper. You may think you know them and then in a crisis they scream "Get out of my way, fuck the women and children, I want a seat in that lifeboat."

The words are always noble and nice. The person often is not.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Facts

[OneViewpoint]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy ,

🙏 Brother.

[Lliam]

I married my wife because she took marriage very seriously and I was 99% certain that she would feel bound forever by her vows.
I, myself, took marriage extremely seriously. I think it is a once in a lifetime decision. I don't take solemn vows lightly and would never go back on my word.
My wife and I have been happily married now for almost 30 years.

I would trust Joe Isuzu before I would trust any politician. Their oaths of office are perfunctory and their promises are hot air. All they really care about is personal wealth.

[sage2021]

I'd have to say No, especially after seeing the picture of the couple taking wedding vows.

[Zack-Bann]

Used to be without his word a man had nothing


But back then you could get a bank loan for a large sum with only a handshake


That’s what a man’s word was worth


Today, not so much.


So oaths…. Yeah not really worth much either

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

If you're asking me whether I trust politicians' promises, my answer is no, I would be naive or particularly ignorant of History to do so lol.

If you're asking me whether I trust marriage vows, my answer is no, I could trust the intent to honour that promise, that yes, but an intent isn't a promise. No one can control love, no one should be expected or expecting to maintain a relationship because they have to. This is the opposite of fulfillment to me.

[najekim]

I'd trust a marriage vow a whole lot more than an oath of office by a politician. Nowadays almost every politician is breaking their oath of office putting forth, and supporting, bills/laws that erode the US Constitution which they have sworn to uphold.

[NathanDavis]

I know the ones I can trust and how much/with what I can trust them...

politicians? you made me chuckle, lol

[Massageman]

Well, let's see. obama promised that obamacare wouldn't cost "one dime more" than existing medicare. He was right - it cost me about 5,000 dimes more- per year. So I guess he kept that promise.

It's personal and situational.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Zero trust. Humans by nature aren't trustworthy regardless of what they say.

Put them in a serious disadvantage painful situation or present to them a serious advantage and they will change their minds and forget whatever they promised.

[worldscolide]

Not unless I know the person really well. Trust isn't something given only earned from me.

[AviatorTom]

I follow the general rule...

Trust... And Verify!

[loveslongnails]

I trust that almost all of them will be broken, does that count? LOL

[msc545]

Of course I don't trust such things. I'm not stupid.

[BCRanger10]

Why not?

[LC75LC71]

No. A promise to me is about as good as peace in the middle east.

[katiesmuff]

Is this suppose to be a joke! LOL

[BCRanger10]

No, it's not.

[Agape93]

Nope unless I already trust the person making it.

[BCRanger10]

Why not?

[Agape93]

Why would I trust anything from a person I don't trust already? There would be no basis to justify that trust.

[BCRanger10]

What does you knowing or not knowing them have to with anything?

[Agape93]

I just told you.

[BCRanger10]

Doesn't that seem a bit... I dunno, incredulous?

[Agape93]

Not trusting the promise of someone you don't even know is incredulous? That would be foolish. I could promise you anything and I can lie without remorse if I so chose

[BCRanger10]

If I meet another man who took the same wedding vows to his wife as I did to mine, and I just randomly meet him at a coffee shop, should I disbelieve him until I get to know him personally?

[Agape93]

Yeah? Because why would you just assume he meant it?

[BCRanger10]

Because I'm sure it would reflect better on both myself and him to presume that he's telling the truth. It better demonstrates honor and charity. Why should I not trust him?

[Agape93]

Ok lets try this. If for some reason I got married, and promised to love and cherish the guy, to honor and obey him as long as we both shall live. Would you believe me?

[BCRanger10]

Based in current knowledge? Or the chance meeting?

[Agape93]

Either one

[BCRanger10]

I would.

[Agape93]

Then you would have been tricked. As would they hypothetical man.

[BCRanger10]

Aren't you interested to know why?

[Agape93]

Sure

[BCRanger10]

So there are several reasons.

1) I don't discount the, if you will, "grace of office". Or "institutional mold", or whatever you call it. Basically, I generally trust that if someone makes a public pledge to be a part of something (especially marriage) that it will have at least some kind of internal effect on them.

2) Despite our differences, you and I have been fairly cordial with each other. We've duked it out a few times, but I've had as of yet no reason to believe you've been dishonest with me.

3) If you and I had randomly met somewhere and you told me about your husband, then it would be most unjust to you for me to assume that you're not faithful, particularly out of cynicism. It would be unjust and also, as I already said to someone else, intellectually lazy.

4) Even if, in spite of what you say now (and what you've shared publicly here), you messaged me and said you'd met a great guy who makes you feel complete, that he's proposed and you're getting married in six months, and that you will honor and be faithful to him, I'd admittedly be a little suspicious, BUT I would then call to mind that sometimes, a radical "conversion" or turnaround sometimes happens, even sometimes quickly. Take Saint Vladimir the Great (who is sometimes called the "Russian Constantine") for example. He was a pagan who loved to rape, pillage, and plunder. He'd even murdered one of his own brothers and took his wife as his own... though he'd also already had multiple wives, concubines, and mistresses.

I forget the exact details, but if I remember correctly, he wanted to marry a Byzantine princess (either he or they wanted an alliance, I believe). The princess, Anna, said she would only marry him if he got baptized and sent all his other wives and girlfriends packing, which he did. And not only that, when he returned to Kievan Rus' (or today, Russia), he had the entire nation baptized, destroyed all the pagan temples and altars, and remained loyal to Anna for life.

[BCRanger10]

PART TWO (reply was too long before) -

Now, I'm not saying that you'd become some kind of rad trad Catholic or something, but what I am saying is that I have no reason to believe that you wouldn't honor your vows, even if you didn't immediately. Either way though, if I assumed good faith, my conscience would still be clear.

[Agape93]

Huh... that was honestly very different than what I expected.

If it helps, when it comes to my loved ones, I don't lie unless it's to protect them and their privacy. So if I ever said I was getting married, that would actually be true.

Like with my guy. He's the biggest reason I'm alive. If he had asked me years ago to marry him, I would even if I wouldn't like it. If he had asked me to give him a child, I would. I would despise the child, I'd be tempted to kill it because I have the maternal instinct of a brick. But I'd five him that child, because the well being of my partners come first to my own needs and wellbeing. Especially him.

[Agape93]

And like I keep saying with older and wiser or wankiam, I don't need to agree with you t respect you and be relatively polite as best as my temper allows

[BCRanger10]

What were you expecting?

[Agape93]

The usual projection I get from people in similar discussions. Like Tony metal claiming I'd love being a submissive housewife and mom, because thats what he himself likes. Or msc 545 thinking I'd be suddenly flooded with regrets and empathy because thats what he thinks people are like. So I'm not used to an actually well thought out response to stuff like this

[BCRanger10]

Though I might not show or express it, I don't much care for when idiots assert that they know me better than I know myself, why I think, speak, and act as I do better than I do. As for me? While I might believe that all people would be happier and more joyful and that the world would be a better and more peaceful place if they were all practicing, faithful, and observant Catholics, I am well aware that it often takes time and hard intellectual work to get there, if they even do at all (and for the record, make of this what you will, but I have prayed for you every so often).

And if all I can do towards that end is to honor and dignify a man by simply giving assent to his claim that he loves his wife and will remain faithful to her until he draws his last breath, then that is what I will do. It's like the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi (part of it, at least) - "O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be understood as to understand."

[Agape93]

I can respect that

[Agape93]

And I don't begrudge prayers. I appreciate the sentiment. You're a better catholic and person than my parents are/were. I don't know if they're alive lol

[BCRanger10]

I appreciate that. We'll see if that assessment holds beyond the next few days, as I'm currently compiling some of my answers to recent questions into a MyTake about the image Trump posted last week of him as a Christ-like figure (well, moreso the reactions, but that's still part of it). I'm not going to be as filtered as I usually am. Don't get me wrong though, it'll be a Happy Meal compared to what some saints like Thomas More, Louis de Montfort, Boniface, or Alphonsus Ligouri likely would have delivered.

[Agape93]

Looking forward to it. If nothing else I found it hilarious

[SaoirseS]

It depends on the situation.

[Xawyx-2]

Nope, I almost never do.

[KostasKouvalis]

Hell no😂 People have no morals or honor

[KostasKouvalis]

At my old job, the rangers took an oath to uphold the constitution, but then violated our 1st and 2nd ammendment rights

[Snakeyes7]

Not without a reliable way to enforce it.

[Kingofkings1992]

I don't trust anything, buddy

[BCRanger10]

Why not?

[Kingofkings1992]

Because I'm smart

[BCRanger10]

How does that make you smart? And why?

[Kingofkings1992]

It just does. Naive people think the world is good natured, and intelligent people question things. The truth is that the world is not a good place. It's a kill or be killed place, that will eat you alive and spit out the bones.

[BCRanger10]

That doesn't seem at all sad or miserable of a way to live?

[Kingofkings1992]

Perhaps. Unfortunately, it's reality the way I see it. Being intelligent is a burden in some ways

[BCRanger10]

No disrespect or offense intended, I don't see it as a sign of intelligence at all to assume everyone is lying (or at least not being fully truthful). I think it's intellectually lazy, for one thing. The person who thinks like that, rather than engaging their ability to think critically and, more importantly, charitably and therefore come to know the heart of a person isn't exercised at all.

[Kingofkings1992]

I never said that everyone is always lying. I said it's not smart to assume most people are trustworthy. We don't need to debate it any further- we won't see it eye to eye.