Why do MAGA supporters say neither Trump nor Lindsay Clancy is mentally ill?

[msc545]

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Despite the fact that Trump exhibits substantial signs of mental illness and his behavior is very dangerous, he gets a pass from MAGA on the behavior, and they are not willing to admit that there is anything wrong with him. Lindsay Clancy, on the other hand, gets no pass at all, but MAGA, in its wisdom, is convinced that there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. Why is MAGA completely unable to assess whether or not there's something wrong with someone?

[loveslongnails]

Why? Because magats are mentally ill themselves and stupid people do not know they're stupid.

[Anonymous]

They believe mental health/illness is a con

[msc545]

They think that anything that mitigates against violent or extended punishment is a con. They think that violence is a solution to everything.

[Opinion Owner]

That too but you think they're the 'suck it up' and 'man up' types

[msc545]

Yeah, that's a good description of them. They also have two-digit IQs at best.

[lightbulb27]

does this really fall along political lines again? I've stayed out of the recent mess and hope I never end up judging one.

But were not qualified to make that diagnosis right? I don't recall saying the other options... Biden and Harris were mentally ill, nor George Floyd or anyone else. Got opinions sure. I think we use the words mentally ill and crazy and nuts inter chaneably.

I think what we really mean, when I talk to people is... you are responsible for your actions, did they know what they were doing, and was it intentional or accident? So that's a way of saying the illness thing is not relevant. I'm not sure one way or the other. I know if people are sad, pissed, angry, exhausted, sleep deprived enough... they can and will do anything.

How easy it would be to take the wrong drugs, mix some wrong drugs or stress and go into a psychosis and do anything... and get away with it. Isn't a person responsible for their brain? Only way I see out of that is if something was forced upon someone else, they weren't in control of taking the pill or the actions.

I wonder how many people whom drink and kill people are really not guity, because they didn't know what they were doing. Bull crap... ya chose to drink and drive, don't do that! How many people are in terrible physical shape, obese and sick as well... are they all mentally ill, digestively ill, or some other kind of ill? They are responsible for making the changes to get healthy!

It bugs me when I see younger people get away with crime after crime..."they are too young to know what they are doing". Bull crap, that's why kids used to get a belt or other withdraw treatment until they concluded..."that is a bad idea and I'm never doing that again". Solves that problem.

But I don't know how to judge this case...

[msc545]

How difficult do you think it is to have something go wrong with your brain?

[lightbulb27]

In this world, it's fairly easy.

[lightbulb27]

trying to handle 3 kids would be very stressful, add other stresses... relationship, financial, there's many stressors, anyone can crack.

[msc545]

So what do you think happened in Lindsay Clancy's brain to produce this kind of result and this kind of behavior? Secondly, what do you think the appropriate response is to this kind of horrible behavior that was probably not under her control at all? What should we do about this if anything?

[lightbulb27]

I really haven't followed this closely, generally not worth my time, I skimmed it and looking for common traits as other cases. Just being honest, I'm not digging into details.
So I can guess... excess stress, hormonal problems. Could be dietary, could be relational stresses and normal hormonal issues following having 3 kids. If I had to count the number of women I've seen go a little "bonkers" hormonally, id run out of hands fast... ya know? That's standard female. So it's a question of extremes.
What cause her go into some spacial zone where her body kills her own kids one at a time while they are screaming... um... drugs probably. But, it's possible it's just plain old non drug.. burned out, hopeless.

In lightbulbs magical world of fixes... I'd have had her in a support group for women where she receives love and support, people share the load and help take some of the burden off. Baby sitters in family or friends help give her a night off to bond with hubby and relax.

The problem here is way deeper than the story... our society is beyond stupid due to capitalism... e. g. subdividing the economy so much, that we outsource everything and everything has $ associated. ya know? were supposed to have families, communities and such, church was a way to bring community together. Some communities still do that.

We have way too much of people going "nuts", which is easy to do with enough stress.
...

[lightbulb27]

From a recent sermon "... you are going to want to kill your kids"... and he laughted at that. He's right, but ya want to be in a strong emotional place where you don't want to do that. Some people can go off... emotionally, hormonally, spiritually. Add relational stress... like someone is cheating, and a person can go "bat crap crazy". Anger, fear, hopeless ness can result in any number of aimless ills. Anyone could pay the price.

Who really knows their life though, her upbringing, their reality. Looking at her, she doesn't look so good... but why would she. Some women are just nuts from the beginning... have you noticed that. So might take "less" to make them snap.

[lightbulb27]

What to do about it... heck, I don't know. I much rather put effort into prevention than this stuff at the end. I'm not close enough to evaluate it. I'm a bit of a liberal when comes to that... e. g. try to recover the human as long as not dangerous to others, but correction and root cause required. Don't just put in jail for a period of time and release. That's stupidity. I want to be confident the root problems that lead to this are resolved, they don't repeat. Else leave in jail, firing squad, etc..

[msc545]

Okay, the bottom line here is that we don't know what causes psychosis. I wish we did, but honestly, we don't. In the time that I have been practicing, I have seen it fairly frequently. I still have no idea what causes it, and I also have no idea what cures it, if anything does.

[msc545]

We can treat psychosis with medication, but the truth is that the medication doesn't usually work. When it does, it has some pretty nasty side effects. It's not a great trade-off at all.

[lightbulb27]

That makes sense. To me, seems not too far from "disassociating". That is, whatever is going on is so difficult to process for the brain, the brain gives up and goes somewhere else. Be fascinating to see brain scan of what lights up, im sure it's different.
Bottom line, the person needs a break to recover. I think some soldiers are able to endure a lot more, but even the best trained can fail under strain. If you watdched the movie I recommended "Hacksaw Ridge"... you see one guy that in the face of so much, did not crack. He had a higher power. I think that is one solution, I'm not saying it always works. There is the case of those "Puritans" whom burned people alive at the stake because of their beliefs. Beliefs can be a big problem!

So the bigger question, are we going to have these problems with AI, since it's modeled after us. I think the answer already seen is... yep.

[lightbulb27]

to clarify my point, my laymans assumption is that the brain cannot process the stressors anymore, maybe it's just all backed up from lack of rest or low chemicals or something. Then, to deal with the problem, it terminates the source of the noise and problems. That be the children in this case.
Problem solved... for the desperate brain.

[msc545]

That's probably as good an explanation as any other one, but the truth is that it doesn't really lead to any good conclusions Any more than the more technical stuff that I know about does in the end. We don't know what causes this and we don't know how to fix it.

[lightbulb27]

That's good to know actually and no surprise, brains complicated. Strikes me then... wonder how many of these occur, if anyone tracks patterns, what research being done. I wouldn't throw the person away, I'd try to figure out what happened, regardless. May be impossible... as they won't want to remember.

[msc545]

I don't know exactly what went wrong with either one of these people, and I don't think anyone else knows either. There is lots of speculation about it, both inside and outside of my profession, and I have my own ideas about it, but ideas are not the same thing as anything approaching proof. Both of these individuals have severe psychiatric illness, but the nature of that illness and what caused the illness is rather mysterious.

[Just_Ken]

Why do liberals now say women can't be held responsible for their own actions because of their hormones?

[msc545]

Ken, we don't say that. What we say instead is that people who have psychiatric illness deserve special dispensations in some circumstances because they literally have no control over their own behavior. Take a look at a condition called partial complex seizure disorder for another example, besides the one we are talking about now, where people do and say things and literally have no control over their own behavior. I had a patient with this condition who broke into a hotel room and threatened people with a weapon and was acquitted by the court because he was deemed to have been unconscious at the time he did these things.

[Just_Ken]

In April 2018, BuzzFeed News reported that female employees of CAP had complained of sexual harassment by CAP employee Benton Strong to human resources and management. Two anonymous employees alleged retaliation for reporting Strong's behavior, one of them including her allegations in an exit memo when leaving CAP. However, CAP maintains that no retaliation occurred, and an internal investigation concluded the same. In response to the first complaint, Strong received a warning from CAP management. After the second complaint, he was suspended for three days without pay. He was already resigning to take up a position elsewhere, and these three days coincided with the final three days of his employment with CAP.

After the publication of the BuzzFeed story, CAP president Neera Tanden unintentionally used the first name of one of the anonymous women during an all-staff meeting to address their handling of the sexual harassment allegations

[Just_Ken]

The Center for American Progress is a 501(c)(3) organization under the US Internal Revenue Code. In 2014, CAP received $45 million from a variety of sources, including individuals, foundations, labor unions, and corporations. From 2003 to 2007, CAP received about $15 million in grants from 58 foundations. Major individual donors include George Soros, Peter Lewis, Steve Bing, and Herb and Marion Sandler. The center receives undisclosed sums from corporate donors. In December 2013, the organization released a list of its corporate donors, which include Walmart, CitiGroup, Wells Fargo, defense contractor Northrop Grumman, America's Health Insurance Plans, and Eli Lilly and Company.

In 2015, CAP released a partial list of its donors, which included 28 anonymous donors accounting for at least $5 million in contributions. Named donors included the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Embassy of the United Arab Emirates, each giving between $500,000 and $999,999. CAP's top donors include Walmart and Citigroup, each of which has given between $100,000 and $499,000. Other large CAP donors include Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Google, Time Warner, and Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.

[Just_Ken]

@msc545disreguard. My apologies, wrong question

[msc545]

No harm done

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

The same is true for you. The left demands justice be done on Trump while granting compassion for a murderous woman.

We know there's something wrong with her... she murdered her children. Sane people don't do that. But, the action requires justice. The left's hypocrisy is why no one trusts their judgement.

[msc545]

We don't respond to illness with Justice or what you call Justice, which is more often than not cruelty.

We respond to illness with treatment and compassion.

[msc545]

If you are willing to admit she wasn't sane, then that automatically means that she should have been found, not guilty by reason of insanity. You do realize this right?

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

I don't adhere to the theory of insanity as an excuse. All murderers are insane. The children deserve justice and she deserves to burn.

[msc545]

Also, you do not understand the meaning of the word "insane." Insane is a legal term, not a medical one. Saying all murderers are insane means that what you're actually saying is that all murderers are not guilty by reason of insanity. I don't believe that's what you meant to say, but the problem here is that you do not understand the word "insane" and how it is used properly. Here is the actual definition and usage:

In formal or legal settings, it describes a person with a severe mental disorder who cannot make rational choices or tell right from wrong. Medical doctors now prefer terms like psychosis or mental illness, while the law still uses insane for things like the "insanity defense".

I agree with you that the children and the woman who murdered them both deserve justice. The children deserve justice by not killing their mother or torturing her, as you seem to be proposing, because you're so outraged by what she did, and the mother deserves justice because she's a person who has a severe illness that she didn't ask to get and that she couldn't control. Your need for vengeance does not trump the needs of the woman who did this or the children who are the victims of it.

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

Check your narcissism.
Your belief that a person's "psychosis" justifies murder, is not one I share. The punishment for sin is death. What you're suggesting is there is no sin worthy of punishment. At least that's the message you're sending to society. Or at least no female sin is worthy of punishment.

And yes, more people should be outraged by what she did. But what you label vengeance, is justice. It is society saying we will not tolerate murder of innocent life. We will not justify murder. We will not give people an excuse to commit the most heinous of crimes. But expecting leftists to value innocent human life seems to be a lost cause.

[msc545]

I don't think you have a clear understanding of what psychosis really is. Lacking that understanding. I don't expect you to understand what the hell I've been saying. However, your lack of understanding doesn't justify insistence on punishing everybody that commits an act that you don't like or more importantly don't understand.

[msc545]

You also have absolutely no understanding of what narcissism is like most people that use that term. I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you because I don't think you have the capacity to understand what I'm talking about.

[msc545]

You are nothing more than a member of a contemporary Lynch mob that is no more justified in its behavior than were those of any historical Lynch mobs. You have no belief in Justice and no concept of Justice. You just believe in satisfying your primitive impulses no matter what it takes. That is disgusting.

[msc545]

No, because you have absolutely no knowledge of medicine or psychiatry or anything else. You just make things up when you don't understand them because you don't know how to do anything differently. You substitute your primitive impulses for logic. I don't know what's wrong with you, other than just being stupid, but I suspect it's more than that.

[888theGreat]

The mistake prosecuters made was charging her with murder as a sound minded person. Should have gone after her for being crazy. They won't get a jury to convict her because they know she was crazy and not of sound mind.

[msc545]

Being" crazy" is not against the law and she could not have been prosecuted for that.

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Murder is not a mental illness. It's just an evil bitch.

[Coercion_Is_Trauma]

Anyone who murders is mentally ill. Even after self defense people develop lifelong mental conditions.

[msc545]

Murder is a criminal act. It's not a question of whether or not murder is a mental illness. The question of whether or not the person who committed the murder is mentally ill, that's a different question. Do you understand?

[Just_Ken]

Kinda goes back to the the late 1900s & early 20th century where the belief was that because of their hormones women couldn't be held legally responsible and needed to be under the stewardship of a man. Also there was a belief back then that criminals were mentally ill and needed lobotomies. Thats where we get words like imbecile, moron, retard etc.

[Iron_Man]

oh yeah mentally ill but she still killed her kids and she should not get off

[msc545]

Do you think we should put people in jail because they're mentally ill?

[Iron_Man]

Her yes she did what she did

[msc545]

Punishing people for mental illness is wrong.

[Iron_Man]

Not for killers, let me send you this question and watch Tom and me the other guy talking about it you we’ll see. It makes a lot of sense from the other guy.

[Iron_Man]

I am in Tom’s area talking to him look at the other comment.

Lindsay Clancy’s trial for killing her three young children ended in a mistrial this morning. What are your thoughts and feelings on this matter? ↗

[Sevenpointfive]

because evil shit is what they're into