Is it wrong to associate a whole religion with the actions of a few?

[goaded]

Gott Mit Uns Nazi belt buckle

Is Fairfax County wrong to tell teachers not to link 9/11 with Islam?

Yes, not every follower of a religion supports their most extreme elements

No, every Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Christian supports hatred

Don't know/see results

Updates

5 d

Is Fairfax County wrong to tell teachers not to link 9/11 with Islam? ↗

[purplepoppy]

Does USA link the genocide of the American indian to Christianity? Or the burning of thousands of witches across America and Europe? Of course not. I doubt stuff like tje crudades or Spanish inquisition are even taught.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching the terrorists used Islam to justify what they did, no one would argue against that. But it shouldn't be linked to Islam. People who want to link it are doing so for political reasons to paint all muslims as potential terrorists who should be stipped of any rights or exported as a precaution.

The IRA was a catholic based terrorist organisation that killed thousands of innocent civilians, much of the funding came from USA Christians but I doubt anyone in America pushed to associate Catholicism with terrorism just before election time.

[nastyb]

it's not just the actions of a few. study their religion's culture: cruelty towards women, unreasonable laws, country's history of violence and rape, marrying children, selling children, pedophilia is everywhere in their culture, having multiple wives, take a look at how these people are so violent and cruel even to their own kind

does it sound like these people are kind, gentle, respectful people?

[Agape93]

Exactly. People earn a reputation, and they've very much earned it.

[nastyb]

@Agape93

only in the US, are we not allowed to create bad reputations for people claiming it must be "Racist" or that all muslims are like that.

[Agape93]

Sadly parts of Europe too. But people fail to understand, not liking Muslims isn't racism. Muslim isn't a race. Nor is it Islamophobia. Nobodys afraid of Islam. They just dont like it

[goaded]

So, what proportion of a religion's followers have to believe something bad to blame every single one of them?

[nastyb]

@goaded

if you take a look at every muslim country's culture, there is always sexism, rape, violence and terrible cruelty.

I have also dated a large variety of men, I can say that muslim men are probably the worst, second worst would have to be black men. Muslim men don't care about a woman's permission in sex.

[goaded]

If you take a look at every Christian country, there is always sexism, rape, violence and terrible cruelty.

You didn't answer the question: what proportion of a religion's followers have to believe something bad to blame every single one of them?

[nastyb]

@goaded

US is a christian country, rape, sexism, violence cruelty is not common in our country at all. Neither is it common in england- who is also a christian country

[goaded]

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

upload.wikimedia.org/.../AdamsStatement.GIF

[nastyb]

@goaded

US doesn't marry or have sex with children. US don't condone stoning women to death for cheating on their husband's. US don't go to other countries bombing their world trade centers. US don't harm women just cuz they don't like women. US don't condone having sex with little girls. US dont kill people just because they are gay. All of these things you see in the middle eSt

US is in war to protect US interests. Nothing wrong with that. If someone decides to bomb us. We bomb them right back

[goaded]

Uh, wait until ALL the Epstein files come out.

[nastyb]

@goaded

epstein was only 1 person and the entire US hates him.

but in the middle east, every man is an epstein

[goaded]

Epstein was not alone, and the Southern Baptists ("Christians")? "roughly 380 clergy, lay leaders and volunteers had faced allegations of sexual misconduct, leaving behind over 700 victims".

So Christians think it's OK to abuse children.

[nastyb]

@goaded

still not nearly as common in the middle east.

[goaded]

OK, so there are no more Southern Baptists, because they all left the church because of the institutionalised sexual abuse of children? How about Catholics?

Tell me that all Christians support the rights of LGBTQ+ people. I dare you.

[nastyb]

@goaded

most people in america aren't even religious. so what you said doesn't even apply to the vast majority of americans

[goaded]

"most people in america aren't even religious" LMAO!

"Religion in the United States is both widespread and diverse, with higher reported levels of belief than other wealthy Western nations. Polls indicate that an overwhelming majority of Americans believe in a higher power (2021), engage in spiritual practices (2022), and consider themselves religious or spiritual (2017)."
en.wikipedia.org/.../Religion_in_the_united_states

[nastyb]

@goaded

christians don't go into other countries bombing others for no reason. the middle easterners do.

[nastyb]

@goaded

two world trade center attacks by MIDDLE EASTERNERS

World Trade Center Bombing 1993: On February 26, 1993, a truck bomb detonated in the underground parking garage of the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. The attack was planned by a cell that included Ramzi Yousef, killing six people and injuring over 1,000. [1] (https://www. fbi. gov/history/cases-and-criminals/world-trade-center-bombing-1993), [2] (https://www. heritage. org/middle-east/report/the-changing-face-middle-eastern-terrorism) September 11 Attacks (2001): Nineteen militants associated with the extremist group al-Qaeda—many of whom were from Middle Eastern nations such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Lebanon—hijacked four commercial airplanes. They carried out suicide attacks against the World Trade Center in New York City, the Pentagon outside Washington, D. C., and a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, resulting in nearly 3,000 fatalities. [1] (https://www. fbi. gov/history/cases-and-criminals/world-trade-center-bombing-1993)

[nastyb]

March 2026 Attack: Emir Balat and Ibrahim Kayumi were indicted following an ISIS-inspired improvised explosive device (IED) incident in Manhattan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4we8ev5lpo

Thwarted State Plots: Federal law enforcement arrested individuals like Jessica Bowie (Aisha Saif) over separate ISIS-material-support and bombing plots targeting government infrastructure in New York state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RA1rz4q2qk

[nastyb]

@goaded
On October 31, 2017, a deadly terrorist truck attack occurred on the West Side bike path in Lower Manhattan, ending near Chambers Street. [1]

(https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/2017_New_York_City_truck_attack), [2] (https://www. cnbc. com/2017/10/31/at-least-one-dead-in-lower-manhattan-incident. html) Attack
Location: Began on the bike path at Houston Street and moved south, ending at West Street and Chambers Street next to Stuyvesant High School. [1]

(https://www. cbsnews. com/news/new-york-city-terror-attack-truck-crash-lower-manhattan-live-updates/), [2] (https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/2017_New_York_City_truck_attack) Perpetrator: Sayfullo Saipov, a 29-year-old inspired by ISIS, drove a rented Home Depot pickup truck onto a crowded pedestrian and bicycle pathway. [1] (https://www. nytimes. com/interactive/2017/10/31/nyregion/manhattan-truck-attack. html), [2] (https://www. justice. gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-indicted-terrorism-and-murder-aid-racketeering-charges-connection-lower), [3] (https://www. nbcnews. com/storyline/nyc-terrorist-attack/least-one-person-dead-incident-lower-manhattan-n816166) Casualties: Eight people were killed (including foreign tourists from Argentina and Belgium) and at least 12 others were seriously injured when the truck struck cyclists and pedestrians. [1] (https://www. justice. gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-indicted-terrorism-and-murder-aid-racketeering-charges-connection-lower), [2] (https://www. cnbc. com/2017/10/31/at-least-one-dead-in-lower-manhattan-incident. html) Resolution: The vehicle crashed into a school bus near Chambers Street, injuring two adults and two children. The driver exited holding a pellet gun and paintball gun, shouted "Allahu Akbar," and was shot and wounded in the abdomen by New York City Police Department officer Ryan Nash before being taken into custody

www.cnbc.com/.../...-lower-manhattan-incident.html

[nastyb]

Honor killings are homicides where family members murder a relative—most often a woman or girl—believed to have brought shame or dishonor to the family. Triggers often include refusing an arranged marriage, seeking a divorce, or engaging in unapproved relationships. [1]

(https://www. britannica. com/topic/honor-killing), [2] (https://www. youtube. com/watch? v=ZTK3SCLR4P4)

Prominent Examples

Amina and Sarah Said: In 2008 in Irving, Texas, 18-year-old Amina and 17-year-old Sarah were shot and killed by their Egyptian-born father, Yaser Said, because he opposed their dating choices. Yaser fled and was later added to the FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list before his capture and conviction.

[1] (https://www. youtube. com/watch? v=hvEHdgHoxmc&t=4)

Qandeel Baloch:
In 2016, the prominent Pakistani social media celebrity was strangled to death by her brother, Muhammad Waseem. Waseem stated he killed her over "intolerable" behavior after she posted photos online that he claimed brought shame to the family name. [1]

(https://www. rferl. org/a/pakistan-womens-deaths-honor-killings/32708708. html)

[nastyb]

Shafilea Ahmed:
In 2003 in the UK, 17-year-old Shafilea was suffocated by her parents in front of her siblings. Her parents targeted her because she rejected Western cultural restrictions and refused an arranged marriage. [1]

(https://theconversation. com/the-forgotten-male-victims-of-honour-based-violence-96041)

Banaz Mahmod:
In 2006 in London, 20-year-old Banaz was murdered on the orders of her father and uncle. She was killed after leaving an abusive, forced marriage and choosing her own partner, which her family viewed as an unforgivable stain on their honor.
[1] (https://theconversation. com/the-forgotten-male-victims-of-honour-based-violence-96041)

Samia Shahid:

In 2016, a British-Pakistani woman was murdered while visiting family in Pakistan. She had divorced her first cousin in an arranged match to marry the man she loved, leading family members to trick her into traveling abroad where she was raped and strangled. [1] (https://www. saverauk. co. uk/honour-killing-victims/) Common Triggers and Context

[nastyb]

The arrests in the U. K. are the latest in a long series of conspiracies uncovered by the British internal security service MI5, which has recognized al Qaeda and its allies like Lashkar-e-Taiba and their sympathizers as the greatest threat to British security.

www.brookings.edu/.../

[goaded]

Well, at least you've changed over from "the Muslims" to more specific groups. That's an improvement, and a tacit admission that it's wrong to blame them all.

It's never "for no reason", it's usually because the West spent decades bombing, invading, and overthrowing governments in the Middle East.

"You keep killing us" is a better reason for killing than "we want your oil", don't you think? Although neither is acceptable.

Why don't you call it an honor killing when a Christian man kills his wife after discovering she was having an affair?

Decades of terrorist attacks in the UK were by the IRA, but we don't blame all Catholics, let alone all Christians.

[lightbulb27]

No because they say they are about peace, but many cheered when it happened. It's two sides of a coin, there isn't much edge. That's why they aren't compatible people with west... and thus "middle east".

It wasn't just a few like Al Q, but also wasn't all. If all Muslims took a lie detector or truth check about it, I suspect many would see it as a positive event. They also see the rape of young English women in England by immigrants as a positive... because it cleanses the world for Allah! Old English women, they'd be fine seeing beheaded... for Allah. Again, it's about peace... their emotional peace and resolution of millenial age grievances.

You can study the book (s) more to see why.

So how do you group them together... those that cheer the attack and destruction? I don't know. It's not 100%, nothing is.

[goaded]

The important word there is "many". Not all. That's why it's a bigoted claim that "the Muslims" did 9/11 or attacked Israel, just the same as saying "the Jews" are committing genocide right now.

[lightbulb27]

That's fair, but again, if you listen to them speak, and I'll post the video... you know what it's about.. their feelings and rights. I haven't heard them say "we are with you", this was so wrong, those ISIS/Al Q and such are hijackers that terrorized us and our religion. Maybe I miss it in their dialog. But the reality is... their thinking, seems different, and that's what's causing the "smoke at the end of the barrel... so to speak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXhNnthG4KI

With your mind, like some kind of lawyer or logistical person, you see things certain way. Go poll Muslims on their feelings about 9/11, again with lie detector in hand so you can sift out which side someone is on. The facade "of peace" crumbles down quickly.

Granted though, I don't htink Christianity is responsible for killing Iraq, that was USA. But then again, a lot of USA did not support that war.

Labeling things, is never clean, or 100% right.
All white people are racists, all bank robbers are white... all black people are dumb, fat, #$!@#@, murderers etc.. etc.. . Stick a label on anthing and it blows up. You'll find patterns. It isn't fair or nice to label or call names.

It's like throwing burrs... seeing what sticks.
it's dangerous too...

[goaded]

"if you listen to them speak"? Them? You're still lumping all Muslims in with the extremists and suggesting all the moderates, which includes some friends and family of mine, must be lying.

The only thing you can be absolutely sure of is that claiming *all* members of any religion believe the same thing outside the fundamental details of their holy book is WRONG.

It's also the kind of thinking that leads to more violence and extremism.

Nobody's making any of your example claims, but there are a lot of people, including you, claiming that all Muslims are the same. They're not. No more than all Christians are.

As to the four seconds of laughter:
"Michael Ragusa, a former EMT with the New York City Fire Department who ran an unsuccessful GOP New York City Council race in 2023, told Newsweek that the video simply showed Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat, greeting Mamdani, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).

"AOC was standing in the back of the line, she waited for the proper time to come greet the mayor," he said. "That video is her greeting the mayor and that’s it."

Ragusa said that Mamdani and Ocasio-Cortez remained very respectful, in contrast to "multiple Democrats and Republicans who I will not name were on their phones, laughing, talking while the names were being read."

"I was next to them for 2 hours," he added. "They were very respectful and stayed the entire time. I am a lifelong Republican saying this.""
www.newsweek.com/trump-mamdani-and-aoc-face-criticism-over-reactions-to-9-11-commemorations-12433641

[lightbulb27]

if people were laughing and joking, they should be tossed out, just like at a funeral. don't care whom they are, nothing like a good smack. I'd suggest the nypd do that job next time. If it was initial greeting, that isn't so bad, but public officials need to be a little more aware of their demeanor. youd even call trump on that as would I.
Im not making claims, my generalization is a little different than yours. As noted, go with your lie detector and do some research. I visited my local mosque, nice people. I suspect if they became majority in my area, the tune would change. it's a suspicion.

[goaded]

Funny, most of the funerals I've been to included meeting with friends and relatives I haven't seen for years. It's a sad occasion, but I'm happy to see them. Why shouldn't I show it?

Anyway, it seems we agree that AOC and Mamdani weren't being discourteous (props for accepting witness evidence), but you're still tarring all Muslims with the same brush, and that's bad.

There are 439 churches and synagogues in 99.8% Muslim Turkiye, for example, and they're not being burned, bombed, or targets of mass shootings.

[jshm2]

By that logic, should every American be assumed to be a school shooter, as every school shooter was American?

Guilt by association has historically always been a slippery slope. White people have always used it to their detriment.

[goaded]

By that logic, yes. They should also be considered to hate gay people. It's stupid.

[OneViewpoint]

I get the argument against blaming the whole for the actions of a few. But... it's your religion. You own it. Clean it the fuck up. Get rid of the manipulators, the extremists, the psychos, the people with a political, sexual, or wealth agenda. Failing to do that means your religion is the cesspool that gives birth to all of that filth. At that point, yeah, your religion is the problem.

[goaded]

OK, so, say you're a Muslim shop keeper living in London. How, exactly, do you go about "cleaning up" Hamas in Gaza?

How successful have Christians been at getting rid of people like the child sex predators in the Southern Baptists? Or Westboro? Or the Americans who were funding the IRA, 30 years ago? They all have to take ownership of those people's actions, right?

[OneViewpoint]

You don't clean up the world from a shop in London. But the people in Gaza can clean up Gaza. They can vote against Hamas. They can rebel against Hamas. Failing to do that is approval / acceptance of Hamas.

The guy in London can do something about mosques preaching hate and supporting terrorism in London.

Same with Christians who see White Christian fascists in the USA and let that crap go on.

It's not about some centralized authority policing the world. It's about everyone cleaning up their own neighborhood.

[goaded]

They can't "vote against Hamas", there hasn't been an election for a generation. Pay attention.

That's like saying Germans could have voted against the Nazis in 1943 (10 years after the last election). Avoiding getting yourself killed by government organised armed murderers is not "approval / acceptance of Hamas".

The guys in London do "do something about mosques preaching hate and supporting terrorism in London".

To be clear, you're saying all Christians are to blame for the White Christian Nationalists in the US?

[OneViewpoint]

Forget it, you're not worth the time.

[Laws-Of-Existence]

There are no religions. There is only cope. Cope such as drinking bread and wine alome in your own room can be harmless and cope such as public preaching and public sexual indecency are harmful. The labels such as jew and hindu are cover stories to execute the cope without resistence.

[goaded]

"There are no religions" Tell that to the majority of the world's population.

[andreasderjuengere]

Are we talking about a few ''Saints'', and a few Popes here?

From Jesus' point of view - as far as I understand him - it's VERY wrong.

[exitseven]

No, even if all Muslins do not commit these heinous crimes the vast number if them cheered when the twin towers collapsed.

[goaded]

Didn't you cheer when Gaza and Iran were attacked?

[exitseven]

No, but I cheered during Trump;s first raid on Iran.

[goaded]

So, when the US killed all those schoolgirls.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

We don't with anything else 🤷‍♂️

[Agape93]

Nope