If abortion is healthcare, does that make ICE a travel agency?

[Anonymous]

[jennifer_bloom]

The bible does not say that abortion is murder, that is a human idea invented by human priests.

Just like the human priests used to think that black people were only 66% human. That was not in the bible, that was a man made idea invented by human priests.

The bible says human slavery is wrong, human kidnapping is wrong, and human abuse is punishable by God. The bible says unpaid wages is wrong and the bible says robbery is wrong.

So the bible 100% opposes slavery while human priests endorsed slavery.

The bible does not say that abortion is murder. That is an idea invented by human priests.

[shish_kebab]

Yes it does. And we all know that drug dealers are just undocumented pharmacists.

But I am a little bit confused as to why they refer to this as healthcare. Whose health are they talking about? It doesn't seem all that healthy for the baby.

[Rorroto]

It is healthy for the baby quite often.

Imagine Theresa is a pregnant 16 year old. She does not want to be. If she gets an abortion, the odds are pretty good that she'll have another child instead when she'd older and more prepared. Therefore, for a cost of potential pain in an abortion, two life's will have been dramatically improved. The death of the fetus didn't matter, because fetuses don't care about death. In that way, Theresa's pregnancy literally had its life improved via the death of an abortion.

Nobody understands that because they don't usually understand how individuality works nearly as well as I do, but time-traveling, teleporting fetuses literally exist, and that's how it happens.

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

They call it healthcare so if they get free healthcare you'll have to pay for it.

[Rorroto]

@Ariesman81Nshiiit I think it's usually moreso so that it remains legal... but that's part of it.

[shish_kebab]

How do you feel about killing a baby? I don't want to hear about cowardice bullshit about legalities. Be brave enough to tell me that you would kill that little baby in the picture.

[Rorroto]

I respect that you brought that up. That's a good point to challenge people about.
I do think it should be legal to euthanize infants with certain types of terrible conditions with the consent of both parents if done by medical professionals, the nature of which I've not thought about yet because nobody wants it legal to euthanize infants in any context but me. That's because if you can painlessly euthanize a baby, the baby loses nothing more than the fetus does. Plus, my Theresa example works with babies too. Babies also don't understand death enough to lose anything from it. In some circumstances that might even be more human than abortion, if that would somehow enable the death to be less likely to involve pain somehow.

It's worth noting, however, that once the baby is born if the parent doesn't want it, it can often be given up for adoption and you're past the point of the birthing process that caused both the mother and baby trauma, so I think in most cases the death would occur before then.

I could have thought more than I have about the morality of the euthanization of infants, but again, I don't think I need to because nobody wants that but me. I just know that there are circumstances in which I'd want that legal... for the benefit of the baby.

[Rorroto]

Also, I've told a friend, before, who I knew in person, that I would prefer to painlessly vaporize a billion orphaned babies rather than be vaporized myself... just because babies lose nothing from painless death and I, being a self-aware person, would. The prospect of euthanizing babies for their benefit for the same reasons I'd see death as potentially benefitting fetuses is not some shockingly new and foreign concept to me.

[shish_kebab]

Jack Nicholson said it best. Sell your crazy somewhere else, because we are full up here and not buying it.

[Rorroto]

Well, I'm not surprised you don't get it now. I'm in the process of writing a philosophy book about it. I think it'll take a lot more explanation that what I can post here in the short amount of words most people would be interested.

I do think a lot of people don't understand that what "I" am is merely a series of traits that is most useful to describe me for society. I'm not limited to one body, and so if 16-year-old pregnant Theresa's fetus dies in an abortion but that results in Theresa having another child when she's older and better prepared, the most accurate way to think about that scenario is to ask oneself the question of whether or not Theresa should get a procedure (the abortion) that causes her first fetus to time-travel and teleport into the future to be born into a better life (and give Theresa a better life) for a cost of potential pain for the fetus from the abortion. Note that there is no death in this process... because death is irrelevant in this case. Teleportation would be a less misleading description.

[shish_kebab]

I'm not as smart as you, but I do wish you would have been aborted a long time ago. And I don't think I'm alone in that thought. Maybe I should write a philosophy book that explains that so you could understand.

[Rorroto]

Just so long as you understand that were I to have been aborted, I would have lost nothing from that unless, perhaps, it involved pain, because there would have been nobody here to have lost anything from that.

[shish_kebab]

Late term abortions happen all the time and it could happen to you tomorrow. Oh well.

[Rorroto]

No. Abortion is healthcare because we do not traditionally put the rights of animals over people and fetuses are animals.

[shish_kebab]

And you are an animal.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab In the scientific context I am an animal. In the more relevant cultural context in which the phrase "animal" is typically used in, I am not an animal, but rather a person. I'd say we typically distinguish between the two because of the massive mental differences between what we usually refer to as "animals" and "people." If we'd euthanized sleeping people the way we euthanize fetuses in abortions, for example, our society would collapse into terror and anarchy. Fetuses minds working differently than ours mean they don't care about death though, and never have.

[shish_kebab]

Even bacteria is hardwired to survive and reproduce. All living things are hardwired in that way.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab Which doesn't counter my point. Death won't harm them in ways they care about. You need a conscious mind to care about death.

[shish_kebab]

We were all just clumps of cells at one point. Some were given a chance at life and some were not.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab I agree with that... but being given the "chance at life" is not of benefit. It's a neutral thing. Therefore there's no reason to advocate that anyone not get an abortion if it's in an early enough of a stage of development that no pain can be experienced, and even after pain can be experienced from an abortion you could argue that you could benefit the fetus more by ending its life than letting it be born, especially given certain circumstances like being born with sickle cell anemia which would lead to prolonged painful conditions, whereas the pain of an abortion would be short.

[shish_kebab]

I'm going to wait and hear what God has to say about it.

[Pterodon]

I knew a woman with sickle cell anemia. She was glad and happy to be alive so who the fuck are you to make such a decision for someone that can’t defend themselves

[Rorroto]

@Pterodon I might ask you the same question. Who the fuck are you to make that decision for someone who can't make that decision for themselves? Why do you have the right to force people to live?

[Pterodon]

Because everything has a survival strategy. We’re not born with a death strategy so stfu

[Rorroto]

@Pterodon which is irrelevant. You're talking about instinct. I'm talking about what's best for life.

[Pterodon]

You know more than God?

[shish_kebab]

By far the happiest teens and young adults I've ever spoken to, have been folks with down syndrome. Their default behavior is just that of happiness. It might sound crazy to you and I, but it's a reality for them.

If you took the time to listen to them, you would see how excited they are to have landed a great job as a janitor. They think they are the luckiest people on Earth.

Maybe the world would be a better place if every single one of us "clumps of cells" were aborted.

I personally don't want to step into the role of God and decide who makes the cut and who doesn't.

It's just way above my pay grade.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab You're stepping into the role of God inevitably. You either force the fetus to be born, without its consent, or you force the fetus not to, without its consent. There is no escape. The best you can do is just to think how best to use your inevitable powers of God, and try to be the best God you can by striving to think about the world intelligently.

That's, by the way, why I love encouraging people to engage in and get better at abstract moral reasoning. I think just the fact that we vote means we're all cursed with God's responsibility in some small way.

[shish_kebab]

Yes, God.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab The only way we can tell God's judgement is good is by using our own reasoning to determine that. We're all given God's responsibilities, no matter what. There is no escape.

[shish_kebab]

I'll ask him when I get there.

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab Asking God when you get there would be too late. You've got to figure it out now. Plus, again, the only way you can tell whether or not God's right is by using your own logic and reasoning, so it doesn't matter what God's opinion is anyway.

[shish_kebab]

Wrong

[Rorroto]

@shish_kebab God's existence is impossible too. God is essentially defined as a being whose traits are not predicted by the laws of physics or patterns we see in reality. That means he's impossible.

Heck, the only difference between how we define aliens and how we define Gods are that gods are the ones with impossible traits. Aliens could have great power through technology, just like gods, but Zues is described as a god and not an alien specifically because the way the power of Zues works is impossible. Both Zues and aliens might be able to transform into swans, for example. If aliens can, it might be through something like transplanting their brain inside the swan's body. Zues is described as just insta-poofing into a swan though... impossibly.

That's the way monotheistic gods work too. They are all described as gods because their existence is impossible because they have traits that we'd describe as impossible were they not traits of god (like omniscience, omnipotence, thoughts existing outside of a brain, etc).

So there's nobody there to determine ultimate morality but us.

[Pterodon]

This is the difference. You want to kill. We want things to live. Liberalism is nothing but a culture of death

[slatyb]

If 2 + 2 = 4, does that make Trump a genius? Typical false equivalence. A fetus is not a person.

[blackeagle007]

Ice? As in trumps gang of thugs a travel agency? Good one 😆

[exitseven]

yes, ICE airlines. Fly the friendly skies of ICE

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

Beautiful! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Anonymous]

Yep, you solved it 😒

[Agape93]

That makes no sense

[moddy_the_mod]

pretty much.