At lest 2 dead and 13 wounded in the latest mass shooting. Does anyone want to consider limiting firearms yet?

[MrShaun]

I know people love their guns but, surely, everyone must agree this can't continue. No more arguing that we need gun rights to survive. Stronger legislation and the strength to enforce such laws have to take place.

At lest 2 dead and 13 wounded.

[MementoMori777]

Too late for that, guns are all over the US, no matter how strict the laws become, that only backfires on the innocent civilians, you think criminals are just gonna give theirs up? The laws only effect civilians, the laws that can save civilians now are to lower the self defense restrictions, having to worry about catching a body for defending yourself is highly effective negatively mostly when it comes to public places, of course keeping some restrictions like not just wreckelessly shooting, my best friend died on Monday to gun violence, he had his gun to pop back, would've been worse if he didn't even get to try and stand his ground, if you've never seen danger in your life, stop trying to manipulate our gun rights, you are privileged

[MrShaun]

You're wrong.

It's never too late. That doesn't make it easy, just right.

[MementoMori777]

agree to disagree

[BoopBoopBeep]

On Tuesday, police officials said at least 53 people were shot across the city [of Chicago] in 42 separate incidents that occurred between 6 p. m. on Friday and 11:59 p. m. on Monday.

2 dead and 13 wounded is a rounding error for any major urban area, the majority of which have strict gun laws.

Nobody cares when black kids are shooting each other though. Nobody's demanding THOSE community leaders get together and "dialogue with the citizens." Nobody questions what are the systemic breakdowns in the black community that cause this to occur time and time again in cities across the nation.

But you get one dead Becky...

[MrShaun]

I don't care the color of their skin. If they're killed, as the father and son of yesterday's attack, the price is too high.

[BoopBoopBeep]

So what law that could be passed do you feel like would have prevented this?

Don't say "ban all guns" as that will never happen and is a non-starter. Let's have a real dialogue and look for real solutions.

[richardcory]

Require recurrent training and background checks for anyone owning or using a firearm. Similar to rules for operating an aircraft.

Make possession of a gun during the commission of a crime result in a a sufficiently large sentence increase that its not worththe risk in most cases (the UK is like that).

It will probably take a few decades to get most of the guns out of circulation, but it will gradually happen.

by the way, I don't care very much about gun control, but I'd prefer to see them out of the hands of the public and then out of the hands of the normal police.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@richardcory Training changes what? There aren't mass shootings because people don't know how to use their guns and they're accidentally going off. It's an intentional act. Training isn't going to change anything

Sentencing increases already exist, but I could get behind making them stronger. Okay on that one.

What part of this involves getting guns out of circulation? People will still have just as many guns they'll just have "more training."

Great job making more do-nothing legislation.

[richardcory]

Training both makes sure that people are competent to use their firearms and (if its done like pilot's licenses) includes medical and psychological checks, drug tests etc.

With the increased requirements fewer people will want to own guns and those will come out of circulation.

You started by saying you didn't want to hear about a ban on gun ownership - which would work. But you took that off the table for discussion. In a sense you are right - guns are a cultural / pseudo-religious article for many people, and it would be like trying to ban the bible.

I'm curious what you would do to reduce gun violence, or do you think the current level is OK?

[BoopBoopBeep]

@richardcory Every mass shooter out there is competent. They aimed at the target and shot something. There aren't enough shrinks to process every gun owner out there, and they can't even agree on DSM 3 vs 4, so that'll be a shiteshow. What medical tests would you recommend that would change anything? We screening for diabetes?

More importantly, I don't think very many people would fall into that category of increased requirements = decreased ownership. I'll just say I lost them and stop going. There's no record of how many guns I have or when I bought them, so you tell me I have to go through 20hours a year of screening I'll just say I got rid of my gun, so I don't see that working. Especially since you already don't know if I have none, one, 500... Not to mention wow that'd be a huge tax requirement needed to pay for all those requirements

My plan would involve HEAVY sentencing enhancements for firearms related crimes. No more +5 years. Commit a felony with a firearm, automatic 20. Apply three strikes rule on top of that for all the people who get out early, etc.

Same with gang activity. Wipe that out you'll cut the gun crime in half (some of it is just "jealous lover enflamed passion" type of crime and there will never be deterrent against it. Mandatory 20 for anyone engaged in a gang crime and start throwing the book at the "kids" they have doing all the dirty stuff so the adults can skate. Lower the age requirement for adult jail and put everybody 12 and up in there. I've seen plenty of 15 years olds (the current age limit) that thought they were hard cause they had bodies on them but a little shower love with adult lifers would knock a lot of tough out of them.

[BoopBoopBeep]

(cont'd for length)

I'm also a big fan of carjacking being a capital offense. Overall we need more of this from 2020:

Brazil’s far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro, said criminals should “die in the streets like cockroaches” as part of his proposed legislation to shield police officers and citizens from being prosecuted for shooting alleged offenders. (https://abcnews. go. com/International/brazilian-president-criminals-die-street-cockroaches/story? id=64808626)

We're too soft on the trash that deserves it and too fast to persecute someone who put the rabid animal down.

[richardcory]

We already have the highest percentages of our population in prison of any nation on earth. Many haven't had trials at all (waiting for trials) , almost none have had a jury. Prisons are horribly violent - pretty much by design. But it doesn't seem to deter people.

I'm not sure why - but I suspect its because they don't plan ahead. The one person I know who went to prison was because she was stealing things to pay off a debt to the sort of people who need to be paid. I'm sure when she borrowed the money she wasn't thinking about what would happen a year later.

I understand that applies to my suggestion of increased sentencing as well. It doesn't seem to help at all.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@richardcory It doesn't have to deter them. It prevents recidivism. Clearly we don't have enough people in prison when we have people with 20+ felonies walking around then getting out because cash bond is racist. Also, normally if you're awaiting trial you're in jail, not prison, unless you're up for some really nasty stuff or have a record. If you're there for two years you can always file for speedy trial violations. If you're there that long because of YOUR motions, that's on you. At that point you reap what you sew.

It absolutely helps to increase sentencing because the perp can't reoffend if they're not out. Is it a deterrent? Honestly I don't care much about that. When nobody lives long enough to commit a third crime you still end up with fewer overall.

Also, American prisons are a joke. Go spend time in an Iraqi prison and you'll be begging to stay in a U. S. one. Hell any prison in the middle east or s. e. asia makes Riker's look like Club Med.

[richardcory]

How many people is enough? We have more prisoners than China. (or anyone else except maybe N. Korea). Ignoring the human issues, I'm tired of my taxes paying for that. Its about $50K/prisoner / year. so over $100B/year That's 3X what we spend on student loans - and its just keeping a bunch of lowlifes in storage.

Asian prisons are not bad at all. Japanese prisons are really nice. Middle east varies a lot. The problem is US prisons isn't the prison, its that the guards allow prisoner on prisoner violence.

Jail can be as bad as prison - there was a NY times article a couple of weeks ago - jails are largely unregulated and some are more violent and worse conditions that state prison ( as described by someone who has spent time in both)

To me the combination of costs, lack of trials, and abusive conditions are a huge problem

[BoopBoopBeep]

@richardcory How many people is enough? For me? All of 'em I guess. I'm not going to let a felon skate because it's crowded. Sherif Joe what's his name out in AZ had people in tent cities. You can stack them in pretty tight that way. We'll have fewer than China when people actually start fearing going to jail. Prison CAN be cheap. The Philippines spend far less than that (adjusted of course) as does Thailand. The last Iraqi prison I went to spends less than 100/year/prisoner. The abusive conditions in U. S. prison is very different than the guards making you rape the other inmates as punishment.

The qualified immunity that police enjoy needs to be extended and amplified for civilians. Shoot somebody engaged in a felony, family shouldn't be able to sue you. When burglars are no longer getting charged they're getting carried out there's a lot fewer burglaries. I've lived in enough places where Castle Doctrine was MUCH stronger than the U. S., and there were far fewer break-ins.

[Singing_Hollow]

You think putting gun laws in place is going to stop a bunch of mentally unstable people from killing? You do know there are weapons outside of guns that are used to kill? If you are going to ban guns, you might aswell ban knives, swords, bomb, grenades', fireworks... pretty much anything that can kill. This issue isn't the weapons, its the crap we are feeding into society which is causing unhealthy behaviors. Those people are sick in their heads, thats the issue that needs to be fault not guns.

[MrShaun]

Will it completely stop it? No. Will it deter it and limit the amount of killings we have been seeing? Absolutely.

You're right that these people are unstable, but the ease of one's access to firearms contribute to what is happening.

It won't be easy, but it needs to happen.

[Molly1997]

The bad guys will always find ways to get firearms regardless. Always.

[MrShaun]

So there's no reason to create laws because the law breakers will always disregard them? Always?

[Molly1997]

Yes. I mean, it’s nice to have laws as a deterrent. But, there will always be those guys that know how to get guns regardless. It only takes one good person with a gun to end a massacre. People need to defend themselves. This is going to get worse, unfortunately.

[MrShaun]

It's not very common that one hears of someone caring a gun stopping the bad guy. Over and over I read of these killings. In the 90s when it happened, it was news; now it's just another day.

Look, you are right that there will be those who get guns illegally. Laws, on their own, won't stop all the problems. But we'll unforced laws pertaining to gun ownership can have a great impact.

I know there are those who love their guns, but it really is time for a change.

[Soldieronmission]

@MrShaun but it's also not the law abiding citizen conducting mass shootings.

It's a very complicated line to draw. You can't cross over the constitution, but need to make and enforce laws that will truly mate a difference.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Where was it at? I just want to look up if they already have a bunch of gun laws in that area. I pretty much am a believer that law breakers don't give a shit about the laws. I own a bunch of guns and no crimes... so we should punish and restrict me? Laws will only effect people that don't break the law.

[Sharkstealth]

That's the wrong solution. We're dealing with mental health issues related to social media. Nobody wants the truth. Powerful people control this country more than any other and they are controlling you more than you understand. Take away the guns and they will still get them. Even if they don't they will make their own explosives or use knives. This is a social issue that is the cause and we take away the rights of those with lesser genetics or actually much more intelligent genetics.

[MrShaun]

There's nothing wrong with lending a helping hand to those that are in need. Making sure there isn't ready access to firearms doesn't mean mental health has to be disregarded.

[Sharkstealth]

A repeated problem with these shooters is lack female intimacy. We have shut down all possible release of sexual tensions. The cartels are now running the illegal prostitution rings in our country and they are stealing money. It's a scam now. Social media has caused women to choose an even narrower margin of men and then those unchosen get their money stolen by the cartels. These are the most intelligent in most cases of our male population resulting in stalking and mass shootings. The powerful keep their families the most powerful while putting their thumb over the lesser.

[KrakenAttackin]

Meanwhile 140 people today in motor vehicle accidentts, and another 140 will die tomorrow, and the day after.

You are either a fully indoctrinated liberal who refuses to think, or tou have a social agenda. You are not primarily concerned about saving lives.

[grega239]

Limiting guns won't solve this. Tge same can be achieved with a knife.

Im also curious how you intend to limit accses zo guns for criminals who won't care about said limitations?

What about illegal guns? Hiw are you gonna solve that.

And why are you blaming an inanimate object instead of advocating for better mantal health care?

[najekim]

Wouldn't make a slightest dent in the problem. Criminals and dead serious mass murderers will always find guns.

Besides, out of all the firearms out these in the hands of private citizens, less than 1/1000 of 1 percent of firearms are used for crimes and unfortunate shootings like this one. Like saying ban Ford Mustangs since they might cause the most deaths in traffic accidents.

[DarkWinterNights]

As tragic as it is, it pales in comparison to the horrific genocides that will take place if the only people allowed guns are the lunatics and psychopaths in power.

[MrShaun]

I appreciate the reply.

There's a lot of societies that outlaw, at least certain types of, firearms. And it has shown to work. The difficulty here is that we've allowed it for so long. But what if strong laws were created and heavily enforced?

I'm not beginning to say it would be easy, just worthwhile.

[stepyo99]

I think we should take the guns from the greatest mass murderer to have ever existed - the United States government - but everybody else should get to keep theirs for self defense.

[jamesgoldman]

Does nothing here in the UK they have banned almost all the guns

A case a couple of years ago guy went to a licensed range held the staff up at gunpoint and walked out then shot his ex-wife