What's with the wedding vows. People do all this stuff and apparently it means nothing.
It think weddings should be a one time deal. We already have a casual dating option.
" I, _____, take you, _____, to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, until death to us apart."
I understand how people use divorce to legitimize not fully exploring what they're getting into. It's like abortion. I feel it needs to be an option, but I don't believe in using abortion as birth control. If people went into marriage with their eyes open, there would be less divorce, but as long as weddings are treated as a fairy tale entitlement, people's eyes will remain shut.
We've been indoctrinated with this fake belief from early age. Just look at the stories we were read. They all ended the same way... "They got married and lived happily ever after." This leads us to equate marriage with happiness. We figure all we need to do is to get married, and we'll automatically be happy. If we're not happy, we tend to assume it must be due to the other person. A healthy relationship is what two people choose to create and nurture. There is nothing automatic about it. If we're only going to focus on what the other person should be doing, and not on what we can do, we'll generally be disappointed.
Divorce is appropriate when abuse takes place, but it's also appropriate when your partner expects you to carry the total load. Relationships are partnerships. Without equality, you'll have an imbalance. It's easy to crash when things are imbalanced.
Your right, the possibility of easy divorce negates the possibility of marriage being secured as more than a friendship.
To understand why 60 years ago the legal institutions effectively abandoned the bounds of marriage you must first look towards the cultural redefinition of that institution to be exclusively about the feelings of the adult parties rather than the commitment for the support and security of their children.
Removing children from the institution of marriage removed any justification to bind the adult parties involved. In case your wondering about the original definition of marriage you can go back and see even among many of the first marriages one of the ONLY reason for dissolution was the failure to produce of said children.
Marriage was and where it still exist is, very much about children not the adults involved. This is the only reason the State or anyone else for that matter has any justification for getting involved and supporting the relationship. Because families and the state needs said children to have a future.
So the truth is by the 1960s when they had introduced no-fault divorce they had already largely redefined the institution in the popular imagination.
Unfortunately at this point with the original concept of marriage being so alien, we probably need to reintroduce Marriage as an entirely different institution.
because the concept of marriage thousands of years ago was about survival. So that two people can be there for each other to survive difficult times. life was hard back then. nowadays , its no longer the same. Both men and women have the education and the means to survive on their own. Our lives are significantly easier nowadays compared to a million or even a hundred years ago. There is no incentive to stay married. Back then whenever a couple had a huge disagreement, they still remained together because they knew they would be better off being there for each other. Nowadays, people will be fine regardless if they have each other or not. This is why marriage is so fragile nowadays. There is no incentive to stick around
What if one of the spouses abandons the other one, should the one who got abandoned be required to stay married to them?
I get it though, I think that is why so many people aren't getting married anymore. They just live together so it is easier to end things. Married is getting less common these days.
I will say, marriage in reality has nothing to do with love, it is a legal contract with legal benefits. Which is also why divorce is a legal matter. Yet here, if two people never get married but live together for ten years, it can be considered common law marriage.
@Aerissa_Jade In a real marriage your not allowed to abandon each other.
Marriage really doesn't exist anymore legally or culturally. Most people think the relationship is about the mutual feelings of the parties in question (Hence "Gay marriage") like a mere friendship.
Sense feelings and benefits are all but guaranteed to change over time, soo too is the relationship doomed to collapse with said change.
So given it offers no security, nor benefit beyond tax dedications are great risk people see it as nothingness more than what it is. A legally risky goverment contract of questionable value.
This however IS NOT marriage its a mere friendship.
I do agree with you. The problem is many people aren’t looking for love anymore and are absolutely miserable.
Divorce is legal but it always has massive impacts on both people legally too. Especially when someone’s getting this and whose getting custody of the kids. Whose getting half of what. The list goes on.
Many people only want sex, money, and the list goes on and don’t try and find love. Then they’re miserable.
Obviously as you said abuse as well as cheating are reasonable.
You’re so right about the vows. Personally I think unless it’s cheating or abuse people should do all they can to make it work because nothing will ever be perfect.
In relationships if someone isn’t happy they either need to get it worked out or split up long before they get married
Most of the married couples I know are in abusive or mutually exploitive relationships. I think at least 1/4 of them should divorce because their marriage is so toxic and bad. Even the bible allows divorce if the relationship is bad. Sometimes being single is better then being abused.
Sometimes things happen and people who were once compatible may not be so anymore. So personally I believe it's healthier for them to split than stay together and be miserable.
That being said I do believe quite a few people go into marriage with the wrong mindset or sometimes go in too quick without knowing their partner well. I'm on reddit quite a bit and I see this a lot. People should realise that marriages take work to be successful and more importantly that there's a lot of things you should know about your partner and a lot of things to be discussed before marriage. Love alone isn't enough. Finances, splitting work, lifestyle, religious and political views, whether or not they want kids. All of this needs to be talked about before marriage. Otherwise it is doomed.
Basically I'd ecommend people actually take time to make sure before getting married. Once they do work on problems first (unless the problem is like major betrayals, crime, infidelity or abuse) try counseling etc and if it still doesn't work, then he's divorce is the healthiest option.
I'm glad that divorce is legal in most countries. Imagine dealing with someone who beats you up, rapes you or turns your life into hell and you can't leave them? Would you be happy?
Every time you do something in life, there's always a chance of not working out. Why would it be different for marriage? I don't see a reason to. Of course, if you end marrying someone who loves you and treats you well and you two stay together until one dies, that's great but isn't always the case. People should never be forced to stay together if they're unhappy.
Yes, get that. But it shouldn't be "till death to you apart" if one of the spouse is being abused or feels miserable and doesn't want to be with the other anymore.
I agree with you about wedding vows. I consider marriage to be a once in lifetime thing and, therefore, the most important decision a person will ever make. It's a solemn vow; a pledge of honor by both parties.
But I understand that things can happen. People get married young, before they've had a chance to grow up. People marry for the wrong reasons. People rush into marriage. A person could develop an addiction like gambling, substance abuse (inc alcohol), or rage that threatens the safety and welfare of the family. Someone might be a cheater, a thief or a liar. Any number or reconcilable differences can develop.
So, even though I see marriage as being for life, I don't think I can judge others or tell them what's best for them. And I certainly don't think the government has a right to interfere in people's personal decisions. I don't support morality laws.
Humans are fallible. The vows are a promise between two people. Attaching any deity to them through a belief custom is just a way to add severity to that promise. But just because you give your best effort doesn't mean it's going to work out. At some point it's possible that a divorce is the only way to save the lives of two people. Forcing them to stay together through legal binds is just barbaric.
You are assuming both made their vows honestly. You would stay married to someone who abused and cheated you if getting divorced was illegal? Humans are fallible and can't see the future.
If you both made your vows honestly and after the wedding found out you are biologically related siblings thanks to an oat-spreding absentee father. Is it taking the easy way out to divorce then, when it's nothing that you or your partner did?
Yes that is an absurd scenario, but so is thinking you can think of every possible event before getting married just in case it might happen to you.
I already said that i understand the abuse cases, a valid reason to get out. And the offender should be jailed, male or female.
So, you opt for the rarest scenarious to covern the mass of cases, clever. Oh what if my wife was a secret vampire and i was a secret bigfoot, then what type things😅
What is the difference? You promised not to cheat / promised to stay with them?
So where is the limit? What is a valid reason for divorce? Does it apply for everyone or just you? With every divorce can you be certain that their valid reason wasn't met before reaching that point? Innocent until proven guilty, it's not there to punish the guilty that might get free, but to protect the innocent that could be punished if it was illegal.
Do you see it as breaking a promise if getting a divorce is the only way to save a life or keep the spirit of the promise that the legally binding marriage is now threatening?
I know exactly what you mean. I took my vows very seriously. I have been married for 26 years. We have had serious issues like serious illness and unemployment. That does not mean that you give up.
marriage is something you have to into with the intention of spending the rest of your life with this person. Getting a prenup is just like admitting failure before it ever happens.
Because people can change and lives can too. You really should have paid better attention in school if you don't know the reasons and benefits behind marriage.
Divorces can be down to many reasons. From loving someone else, not being happy, disability, mistake to breakup of alliances etc etc.
Not all divorces involve complete breakups some can just be legal dressing.
leftist feminists pushed for no fault divorce so that she can just leave without consequence and take half of his assets in the process. Not kidding. 80% of all divorces are initiated by the woman. And only 2% of those cases are infidelity or abuse. Most of the cases are because she is bored, or just doesn't want to be married to him any more. In 90% of divorces where the wife initiates the man is completely blind sided. Meaning he had no clue. Thankfully i married a small town conservative girl who understands the value of the vows and takes them seriously.
Thats either a really low number, reading few over and over again. Or in the gazillions😅
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Since I learned to read. Beyond 3000 books. I actually have a kindle unlimited account where I average more than 200 books a year.. Its an escape for me.
I look from the other direction. Marriage is outdated, just as the institutions that invented it are. Marriage is slowly fading in Western Europe, just as Christianity is. It doesn't make you live longer, be richer, more happier, be healthier. It only exists so the church can control people.
As for falling out of love? It happens. Better to split rather than exist in unhappiness.
Why would you promise to the love of your life, all the in good and bad, till death etc? Its all BS. Your words dont mean anything. You also promise not to sleep/look/date around. That promise doesn't matter either?
How could somebody build a future together, like that?
By you i dont mean You/yourself/jessica etc. Just as a scenario.
Because marriages in the United States are civil agreements and are governed by the law of the state. Every state allows for the unilateral abrogation of the contract, despite the "vows."
But I do agree. Marriage should be taken much more seriously. Also violation of the contract should be punished as it used to be - the cheater loses all marital assets and the victim, as long as he or she is innocent, gets custody of any children.
I think marriage now days isn’t taken seriously or given the respect it deserves. It’s a disposable item now unfortunately. I feel born 150+ years too late. Marriage to me is sacred and the ultimate union of man and woman, ordained by God
God is dead to an ever-growing number of people. Why should they have to behave according to your beliefs? It's like so many things -- if you don't believe in divorce, don't get one.
@slatyb Or how about the other way around too? If people can’t commit to one another and take the vows they have made seriously, then perhaps it would not be wise to even involve yourself with someone. Right now, the behaviors in this world that are contrary to marriage is reckless with this so-called hookup and friends with benefits culture!
it used to be that way, moreso... that people stay together. That was the reason some rich people would have mistrisses, and some kings had issues with popes, etc..
something changed in the 1960s from what I heard, when they put these laws in place. Liberation? We've become progressively more selfish since then.
It's legal because that is what people want... their freedom from suffering.
Women are the one's that want the wedding, the vows, the pageantry, the witnesses, etc. and they file the large majority of the divorces. What does that tell you? They like to lie and they want to see how big of a crowd they can fool because that makes them happy.
Totally get where you're coming from. In sickness and in health, for richer for power. But yet, many people divorce because of money issues or if one becomes permanently sick. They can't handle the relationship when they face hardships in life.
I'll always believe that you'll never know the true strength of someone's love and loyalty until you go through hardships and bad times in your life.
I love that divorce exists personally. Maybe I'm just a fan of Wedding Crashers (2005 movie) too much and the opening scenes. Lols. ✌🏻✌🏻☮️ Relationships, definitely not my thing. But neither is crashing weddings, that's so uninvited and illegal, I don't condone nor incite crashing weddings, uh-uh. Anyways, happy new years. I think in future I would love to work in a job either in insurance or relating to the divorce industry. Lol. 🥳😈🥳
When two people in love want to be married, they mean those vows. We're nevertheless humans, and life is not always easy to deal with. Love evolves, or may die. There's no point in staying together when love is gone and more harm is done to each other than good. The difference between theory and practice. There's no magical solution, and we can't do more than our best.
The same thing goes for diseases, cancers such as breast cancer, prostrate cancer & more. My mother had breast cancer & her doctors, surgeons & everyone involved made money & if you think they want to find a cure think again.
It’s nauseating & what things cost to make & what they charge people makes me sick & to top it off if you have insurance they charge your insurance company more.
I agree to disagree & cutting off treating people wouldn’t be the right thing to do. As for the healthcare system it need a little overhaul & it needs to be fine tuned.
Divorce is legalized for protection from creditors and other entities seeking compensation from your Ex. Legally married people are responsible for each other's debts and claim their assets. For example, when a person dies, their legally married spouse is entitled to ownership of their assets, unless otherwise stipulated in a will. SO think of divorce as a way of asserting legal independence (and protection) from a former spouse.
Because if it wasn't people would just kill their partner to get out of it. Hell they do that already. Or they would just cheat shrugs. Forcing someone to do something will just make them resist it more it's basic logic.
If it were illegal, people would actually need to stop and think about who they are marrying (instead of settling for a non match or rushing into a marriage like idiots).
Because nobody should be forced to stay in a marriage they don't want to be in. Whatever vows they took don't change that. And not everyone takes those vows anyway. Those vows are tradition, nothing more.
But if you promised during the wedding, the vows. Would you still divorce? How is it different than cheating? You promised to stay faithful / with them until your death.
What of she changed, became a different person, started treating me poorly, or giving me for granted, being the cause of my depression, making my life a misery. I wouldn't want just a word to force me to be with such person forever.
I vowed to marry the person I love. If that person is gone, then I'm not going to sentence my own life to an eternity of unhappiness.
Well you can’t force people to say together for ever. People change and grow apart. I think some times people rush into the act of marriage and probably shouldn’t have.
They wouldn't rush then. And nobody forced them, you can live together and date etc. Just marriage is a sort of a one time pretty permanent thing that a couple could enter into if they so choose.
I think this promising anything and not keeping your word mentality has created so much problems in peoples relationships, people using people, foodies, players, ghosts, etc etc.
Or the very least, why say the vows to the love of your lofe if you know you won't keep them?
Because the court system makes massive amounts of money. In Texas when you pay child support only about half of what you pay goes to your child, the other half goes to the judge's retirement fund.
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