70% of divorces are initiated by women, what does this mean?

[Anonymous]

Which one of these 2 options is the common reason for divorce?

Women no longer love their husbands

Women no longer get love from their husbands

[loveslongnails]

If you truly want to get into it, go to www.pewresearch.org They are an excellent source for unbiased data and information.

This was also a good source: https://www.divorcenet.com/resources/common-reasons-marriages-end.html

I did a quick scan of about 8 different surveys, and the most commonly listed reasons were "lack of communication and lack of commitment". The latter does certainly include infidelity, but it encompasses much more than that. Many of the same surveys listed extramarital affairs as its own reason, so it's not simply cheating that prompts a woman to initiate a divorce because many women will forgive that to "save a marriage" in their view.

Perhaps the most obvious reason why men don't initiate most divorces is simply financial. Divorces cost men a lot of money unless there's an ironclad pre-nup. That's not a judgment or condonement, I'm just stating that it seems like an obvious reason. There's probably data on that too, somewhere!

[Noether]

@dark_legacy

I didn’t out myself as anything and I doubt you’d guess correctly. Regardless, you’re wrong to make judgements based on that and wrong for putting words in my mouth and arguing against your straw man instead of addressing what I actually said and believe.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Sweet heart, you are LITERALLY throwing up straw men by replying to me in the wrong threads. You even got the username wrong in this thread. This is literal hysteria.

Stop, okay. I’m not your enemy. I’m trying to help you. If you want to know what I really think, slow down. Read my comments. I have plenty of history in other posts you can look up. I don’t mind. I leave paper trails for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Either or both of those two options can be at play.

But in spite of the claim by @BlackBeauty90 that it is due to cheating and abuse, study after study has shown the #1 reason for divorce is lack of commitment.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/#:~:text=Lack%20of%20Commitment%20Is%20the%20Most%20Common%20Reason%20for%20Divorce&text=In%20fact%2C%2075%25%20of%20individuals,marriage%20ending%2C%20exceeding%20even%20infidelity.

Women file 70% - 80% of divorces, and lack of commitment is the #1 reason. Therefore the primary reason half of marriages end in divorce is the lack of commitment among todays women.

The divorce rates among straight, gay and lesbian couples are very revealing. The lowest rate is among gay couples, the highest rate (by far) is among lesbian couples, and the rate among straight couples is somewhere in between. In other words, the common denominator in divorce is women. The more women there are in a marriage, the higher the likelhood it will end in divorce.

The bottom line is that today's women are destroying the institution of marriage.

[DarkLegacy]

Yes they are and women are more likely to cheat then men

[DubiousIntentions]

Of course people lack commitment. Most get married because the sex is good, even if the guy is a jerk or the woman a Ho. The whole dating scene has changed. Now it is have sex on the first date, all in love (lust) and get married so you can have that sex whenever you want. But low and behold it can actually get old so they seek out new sex by cheating.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Wrong…thread. They’re already implemented.

[BlackBeauty90]

Women initiate divorce because their husbands are cheaters. Statistically proven - the highest cause for divorce IS unfaithfulness followed by abuse, etc.

Years ago - and a few friends have tried recently looking for long term partners & got off within like a week - online dating was overwhelmingly full of recently separated - NOT divorced yet, separated - men looking for easy screws.

These men didn't even have the self respect OR the respect for their former wife & children to wait until the divorce was finalized before looking for the next fuck.

THAT is why divorce is initiated by women. Because of their good for nothing husbands.

[Billlewis]

I can't argue with a single word of your response, ma'am.

[strateguy632]

how would they know if really slept with other women? or cheating includes looking at other women?

[BlackBeauty90]

@strateguy632 Because the average man is an idiot when it comes to cheating. They believe that they have nothing to lose until their girlfriend is throwing their clothing onto the curb or their wife is slapping them with divorce papers. A friend of my brother is a typical good for nothing cheat - he cheated on THREE wives with his fucking employees and each time well... he doesn't have a wife anymore.

[Billlewis]

I actually saw that exact scenario happen on the 'Cheaters' show -- he was living in her house (as is usually the case) and she came home and threw all his clothes on the back porch, which was concrete, and squirted charcoal lighter fluid on them and burned them up... lol!

[DarkLegacy]

Most cheaters are good for nothing women and that is statistically proven.

[BlackBeauty90]

@DarkLegacy ROFL. Nope. Statistically and REPEATEDLY for YEARS it has been proven men cheat many times - even twice as much - as women. ROFL.

Men cheat 54% more than women do.
www.thehivelaw.com/.../

[DarkLegacy]

Nope women cheat more then men, 65% more

[BlackBeauty90]

@DarkLegacy Provide a website proving that, otherwise your spouting nothing but uselessness.

[loveslongnails]

@Billlewis You could if you looked at some stats, worldwide.

[A_Bell]

My mom is a divorce attorney. A majority of all divorces are from women getting bored with their husband and finding a new man. The common belief that it is women fleeing domestic violence is a myth.

Half of domestic violence is wife on husband, but usually is laughed off by authorities and the victim is shamed.

There are plenty of bad men in relationships, but our society pretends women are better when we are just as capable of evil and abuse. Only men have to face the consequences for it.

[DarkLegacy]

One of the best pink answers so far

[Noether]

@love_conquers_hate

First you say that no one’s responsible for the actions of their ancestors and then you assert that I owe people an apology because of the actions of people in the 60s and 70s, before I was born, which one is it? And I never said that people should apologize for things that their ancestors did so it’s not like you can say that I you were just ‘following my logic’ and saying if that’s true then this would be true, I was talking about modern consumerism of slave-produced goods when I said that we need to spread awareness etc.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether You’re in the wrong thread, and you just outed yourself as a woman or a minority. Your apology should be for you denying or refusing that Affirmation Action is wrong. You are benefitting from it now, today, as we speak, as you type. Not in some distant past, today, here, now. You may not have marched for the law, but you have done nothing to repeal it as far as I can tell.

Again, you’re not following. And how dare you attempt flip that logic on me, when I’M in the right. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself. THAT is what you should apologize for. THAT is a modern phenomena. How dare you ignore actual, real oppression in modern times that you CAN do something about and instead distract people into guilt for sins they haven’t committed. Unjustified pity party.

You’re a bad person.

[OlderAndWiser]

More women have unrealistic expectations of what a successful marriage will be.

[Drewtate]

Divorced women generally aren't any happier and regret the divorce and cheating.

Some women after they have kids and get married get bored of the daily grind and obsessed with the luxury lifestyles and sex lives of celebrities and the Jones and given bad advice deliberately by girl pals blame their average guy husbands for everything they see wrong in their lives and start looking for a new man and of course society tells them that it's OK to do this and they are finacially rewarded to do this with alimony, child support and half.

[DarkLegacy]

Brilliant so true, saved those

[Anonymous]

I think its because for a century now our cultural leaders have redefined 'love' as the feeling of infatuation rather than a commencement to a service.


For nearly all of human history the propose of marriage was security mostly but not merely for the children but for the parties as well. In that relationship a man provides for the wife so that she can provide for the children and support the man. This was the trade.

But in the last 100 years our cultural leaders have redefine marriage to be about a 'feelings' instead of practical realites, the result is people become married to their feelings rather than each other.

Since emotions are based upon programing for a world that largely ceased to exist 10,000 years ago, they are rather unstable in our world. doubly so when you add female 'education' to the mix which gives them a whole new set of ever more complex problems to worry about.

Hence why women have soo much more trouble with being faithful post-education than men. Women as a sex are far more tied to their feelings which are evolved for a world that ceased to exist 10,000+ year ago.

[tiajoka]

Or men aren't putting in any effort to love their wives, even when the wife is trying. I understand arguing it's 50/50 at fault... but you're silly to say it's women at fault. especially when you consider that men are much more likely to cheat.

[Opinion Owner]

@tiajoka The key fact behind a man's side of the baron is guaranteeing a woman his resources for the security of her children and herself. That means a man fails in a relationship when he fails to provide such security.
This can happen for a number of reasons to different extents. Including cheating, however for cheating the institution of marriage actually helped mitigate that risk in binding he man to the woman and her children alone, saying the other woman didn't matter.

Thus until marriage was destroyed with no-fault divorce, and other laws which undermined this commitment, for the most party you we're dealing with fear of what the man might choose to do anyway with said motivation.

Far more consequential is a man simply walking away from his wife.

[Anonymous]

Women can’t effectively communicate their needs to their husband. Seen it with multiple friends. Women give tiny hints until they’ve had enough and then nothing will change their mind.
I had a friend almost throw away his quarter million dollar a year business because his wife was divorcing him for working too much and being too distant. She wanted to travel and he told her as soon as the business was settled in they could travel the world. But with Covid putting him a couple years behind schedule she couldn’t wait. He tried everything to save the marriage, even went to therapy but she left anyway and got back together with her ex from high school who is wanted on federal charges. Now he’s dating a girl 10 years younger with kids who still lives with her babies daddy and is siphoning all his money.
People blame Andrew Tate and the “Red Pill” for the rise in resentment toward women, but the truth is really simple. All these young men watched their dads, their brothers and their friends just get wrecked by women and the courts.

[Sonorous]

It means that women are able to exercise their power more now. Now that it's more common & accepted, wives don't have to stay with their husbands anymore. If they're dissatisfied, they can leave. You see, in the before times longs agos days, wives stayed with their husbands even when they were unhappy. Divorce was highly stigmatized! But now that it's not, females can do what they please. Now that we're in the today ago times.

There's already evidence that females have far more complex mate selecting processes than men do. So it's only a given that they initiate more. If men were the child-bearers & women were the providers, you'd see a 180 flip. Men would initiate most of the divorces.

[lightbulb27]

don't know. seen a few from both sides. Lack of educated guesses...

I think in general... emotional connection erodes in the face of discovering them as a human, realizing and discovering incompatabilities and stressors. Rather than sticking it out and loving the person... due to failure to change them... they bail out.

It's interesting as far as I know, humans have the longest bonding time of animals and time committed to raising offspring. It takes 40years to raise family of 4. that's a long long time for most animals in the kingdom.

Lastly, as people grow... their problems change. A lot of divorces occur after the stresses of 1 or 2 kids, job changes and responsibilities... a new set of stressors overcome the maturity of one or both, and the exit what they have to find something else.

[RavVid]

Well the stats are it is 70-80% of wives unilaterally initiating divorce and about 20% joint initiations. i think the later case is mostly going to be caught out infidelity.

So by eight years 40% of those beautiful brides will have divorced their husbands.

I suspect that eight years is long enough for the wife to pop out two babies and to get them into elementary school. The husband is not so functionally useful after that point and eminently divorceable. Was probably always the plot line because she will have the house and most of his future income.

The seven year itch probably feeds into this.

[DubiousIntentions]

The problem arose when they came out with "no fault" divorces. They made it so easy to get a divorce that no one was willing to work things out. When people used to be married for 50 years, now many don't even last more than 5.

[RavVid]

@DubiousIntentions Yes but it is easy to force a divorce by cheating. So really you need fault based divorces with penalties for the at fault party.

There is even the concept of starter husbands now i. e. no intent to remain married.

[Anonymous]

It’s more like women don’t know how to be women any more. Women say they want a man and a leader. But yet will pop their pussy on the internet to make a few dirty bucks more than a man. Will friend zone good men, go after bad boys, get they life and heart fu*ked up and then complain there isn’t any nice guys out there.


There is an issue with men, however, since women are the one initiating the divorces.. women need to look in the mirror and evaluate themselves.. especially westernized culture women. Feminism this society as ruined women and the family dynamic as a whole.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Why are 30% of divorces are initiated by men?

Very few things in life go exactly as we desire and hardly no one marries thinking about divorce a few years later.

Relationship and marriages sometimes just don't work like we intended to work because people change over time, love is lost, people commit adultery and abuse happens in marriages and stresses of life beats us down which causes areas of our lives to suffer including marriages.

I know idiots on here are going to say women get paid through a divorce but that's only true if the men they marry have a lot of money which most men out in the real world don't have a lot of money or assets to being with so she isn't going to get ish.

I believe divorce is wrong but the reality is people are complicated and aren't easy to deal with especially over a long period of time and things become dull and burdensome and people just decided to split for whatever their personal reasons.

[strateguy632]

"only true if the men they marry have a lot of money" wrong, every divorce with kids and some without kids, thr man must pay monthly. if they offered me money to get a divorce i would take it... after pretending i trued.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@strateguy632: Not true at all. The medium income for people in the U. S. is less than $50,000 a month and million others make far less than $50,000. What money are they gonna give a month?

Only people that make a significant amount of money are ordered to pay alimony a month for a period of time assuming the wife or husband isn't working at the time for support.

J. Lo was ordered to pay her ex husband 10 million dollars for their 9 or 10 month marriage which is BS in my opinion.

[LazerBean]

Indeed. I think another telling question is "why DON'T more than 30% of men initiate divorce?"

The answer is that if men were not trying to protect their money, more men WOULD divorce. Men aren't not initiating divorce because they are so much more noble, they just don't want to pay child support and alimony. If the roles were reversed, the outcome would be reversed.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@LazerBean: I don't understand what you're saying?

[LazerBean]

The only reason more men don't divorce is because they don't want the monetary consequences, rather than it being because they are so much more faithful - which is what many men try to claim.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@LazerBean: That could be a reason but I don't think that's the primary reason.

A single man doesn't have the benefit of steady sex, a clean house and someone to cook and wash his clothes for him unlike a married man.

[LazerBean]

I agree, I think that it's half money and half the maid/sex services, as you say.

[lilithscandle]

75% of the divorces initiated by women are due to infidelity from their partners, and another leading cause is a lack of support. It's truly that simple. You can love someone and still leave them, and as they should. A lot of people in the comments are projecting their opinions rather than giving an actual.. you know.. answer.

[DarkLegacy]

Nope women cheat more then men, and you are just projecting your opinion, and trying to blame men for shitty female behaviour. Another fake account i see

[lilithscandle]

@DarkLegacy it’s statistically proven that males are more likely to cheat than women, that males cheat more than women, that males cheat more in marriages, and that it is the leading cause of divorce.

I’m highly against making any claims based on anecdotal evidence. Any statement I ever make will be backed up through statistics or experimental studies that are not only externally valid/ fit for our society today, but can also be experimented again with a different group of people and have a consistent trend or the same results.

Not everything is an attack against males, and this isn’t a fake account, it’s the same account that’s been replying to you on another post on this website..

[DarkLegacy]

Still here then going on at me, and talking bullshit

[lilithscandle]

@DarkLegacy I’m responding. I’m allowed to respond, I’m an autonomous person. You first replied to ME here

[DarkLegacy]

You started on me first

[blueonblack22]

This is complex. Not every initiated divorce is a bad thing. Sometimes it’s for the best.

But are men really twice as likely to be the problem spouse in a marriage given women initiate divorce over twice as often? I just don’t believe that. Really I don’t.

[Apple1996]

That women get tired of mens shit faster then men get tired of women's shit. Also marriage was made purely to benefit a man so obviously a woman isn't gonna stick around to long if they aren't getting anything out of the marriage.

[strateguy632]

getting? sounds pretty selfish in the context of a family.

[Apple1996]

@strateguy632 if their is kids involved and the relationship is bad then it's better for them to be separated instead of the kids seeing a unhealthy relationship

[Asker]

What should a woman get out of marriage?

[Apple1996]

They should benefit off of each other equally but it rarely ever goes that way

[love_conquers_lust]

No, I think you should answer marish01’s question and be more specific. I think this is a key part of the problem in a lot of relationships today. I want to know what you define as equal because in my experience, people confuse equal and fair. They don’t always intersect.

[Asker]

I didn't ask which one should get benefit from marriage. I asked what should a woman get out of marriage? Name those things. List them

[Apple1996]

That would be very specific to the couple to what they wanna get out of the marriage. I cannot speak so specifically that would be like me trying to list out things someone would want for their birthday. Unless I know them that'd be impossible

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust I don't believe in equality but If one gender is benefiting so much more then what is the point in the other staying?

[love_conquers_lust]

You can’t even wager a guess? Shit I can throw out a makeshift list better than that lame ass excuse:
-Companionship
-Designated driver everywhere
-Doesn’t have to fix heavy equipment, do outdoor work, any heavy lifting
-Support when you are handling price negotiation
-Support for anything really
-Father to kids-trips, rearing, support (like my father gave blood to my sister during her chemo treatment during the AIDS scare)
-Sense of humor

It’s not even really conditional. These are consequences of being around a good person. If you go in EXPECTING to get something, you’re going to be less likely to give something and your spouse will end up resenting you because of that shitty attitude.

[Asker]

What are some of the good things women can get out of marriage?

[DarkLegacy]

Women divorce to get the money out of men.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust those are things you think are benefits. The only thing that'd be a benefit in my opinion is companionship and support. All the others would piss me off and most likely make me want to divorce

[Apple1996]

@DarkLegacy and if the man has no money?

[Apple1996]

The main benefits should be love and happiness. If there is a lack of that then its probably why women are leaving. Some of those things he listed would take away my happiness if a man did so I would not stay

[DarkLegacy]

@Apple1996 then he is in luck, but no woman will probably marry him.

[Apple1996]

@DarkLegacy why not? Some women don't care about money

[DarkLegacy]

@Apple1996 Most do

[Apple1996]

@DarkLegacy that cannot be true. Considering there are a lot of average/poor men that are married

[love_conquers_lust]

They all pretty much fall under support outside of a sense of humor. A sense of humor pisses you off?

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust I'd want emotional support. None of the other types. Humor is good too. I'm talking about the driver, heavy lifting. Handling finances and father stuff would piss me off

[love_conquers_lust]

Why? If your money is commingled, you shouldn’t have a problem with someone wanting to help balance a checkbook. I don’t know what your issue is with the father stuff. There are some things a mother just can’t do because she isn’t a father. What kind of example does that set for your kids if you give them the impression their father can’t or shouldn’t do those things? I’m not saying you can’t do it either. Have at it, just don’t hurt yourself. Don’t be mad about it though, or you probably WILL hurt yourself.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust I prefer to handle finances. And fathers should give mothers emotional support so that they can care for the kids. It's the way we are suppose to parent nature wise. Obviously some people can't parent that way because of other reasons so it's fine but I prefer to parent how nature made us to

[love_conquers_lust]

It’s the way you parent. Your kids won’t get a balanced upbringing that way, so I don’t agree. But your kids, not mine. Just make sure those little shits don’t become my problem because they’re emotionally maladjusted tax burdens.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust my kids probably have a better childhood then most now a days. I'm not saying for the father not to be involved. There are just certain roles mothers and fathers have

[love_conquers_lust]

Whatever. I know if I walked into a relationship where the mother was all controlling mama bear bull shit that demanded all support for her but gave none back when it came to raising her kids, I’d say fuck that, out. Not going to let her AND her kids walk all over me. Those kids are little shits, they’re getting disciplined. If they don’t, they’ll be society’s problem. And society won’t be nearly as forgiving as you.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust I don't believe in gentle parenting so yeah my kids get disciplined. Obviously varies tho cuz every kid is different. Not all kids need it if they aren't bad.

[love_conquers_lust]

If you had a kid that didn’t need discipline, I’d say you’ve spawned a mutant because all kids I’ve ever met have fucked up at some point, some time, some where in their lives. They always do. It’s part of their growth.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust yeah my oldest son is angel at least for now. Pre teen years will be hitting. That could be a different story soon lol.
I was the same as a kid tho. Never needed discipline because I just listened to my parents and followed rules

[love_conquers_lust]

Parent (s). Plural. So I assume you got disciplined by both of them, because I highly doubt you didn’t need discipline. I know I did.

[Asker]

Would your husband allow you to walk naked around the house in front of your kids?
Maybe you do. You're weird

[Apple1996]

I'm fine with nudity

[Asker]

Around your dad too or only your sons?

[Apple1996]

In general I'm fine with nudity around anyone

[DarkLegacy]

Well that is quite a revelation

[Apple1996]

@DarkLegacy I'd be a nudist if I didn't get cold so easily 🥶

[Asker]

I've noticed that usually unattractive women are more supportive of nudity

[Apple1996]

Maybe some. I wouldn't say I'm unattractive tho I'm just mid. Pretty sure you've seen me

[love_conquers_lust]

Poor Apple. She’s getting a little bit cored in this thread.

You think nudity around your children is acceptable? What does society think of that? Is it that you don’t choose it for yourself, but support it for others?

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust I love keeping a thread going so y'all ain't bugging me.
And I have no idea what society thinks about that tbh. I just support it. There are a few people on here I've chatted with that come from nudist families and they are happy with how they were raised

[love_conquers_lust]

Yeah, but you didn’t answer the followups. If I came up to you and asked “why aren’t you naked?”, you don’t see a problem with that?

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust you want me to get naked?

[love_conquers_lust]

Nope, I don’t. I want you to back up what you say.

You understand nudists are more exposed to the elements, do you not? That means premature aging of the skin, increased cancer risks, increased risk to bug bites which means increased risk to disease, that means susceptibility to hyper or hypothermia, you said yourself you get cold.

I want to you to explain why you unconditionally support it, or rather why you don’t qualify. Otherwise, I see no reason why you shouldn’t burn all your clothes for the rest of your life and forever remain nude if you support nudity.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust sure come burn my clothes 🔥

[love_conquers_lust]

I don’t support it, why would I do that? I wouldn’t do that to your kids. Rich or poor, I’m not going to some strange woman’s residence and burning what she owns and leaving her vulnerable. What kind of message does that send to your kids except that men should be feared?

[Asker]

Lol you are a married woman. Yet you still want to get attention from random men on social media. How desperate you must be
" you want me to get naked?"
"sure come burn my clothes 🔥
Lol this emoji 🔥
You do know you are not hot

[Asker]

And no I haven't seen you

[love_conquers_lust]

That’s another point I wanted to circle back to. Does her husband support nudity? Has she SUPPORTED him emotionally and asked for his opinion? Or is it he gets walked all over because her word is law in her household?

[Asker]

@love_conquers_lust her husband is beta.
She can be with other men and women (she is bi)

[Apple1996]

Ah okay I posted a lot of pics here. Just had a lingerie picture on here 2 weeks ago

[Asker]

I haven't seen any picture of you.

[Apple1996]

@love_conquers_lust my husband is the leader of our house. He does support nudity even more then i do. Probably the reason why I'm so comfortable with it now

[Apple1996]

Not true I don't get with other people

[Asker]

But if you want will he have a say? Lol

[love_conquers_lust]

Sounds like he doesn’t really respect you. Furthermore, sounds like you won’t stand up for yourself. Hard to say what’s going on in that house. You said you controlled finances and all those other things that involved support, and now you’re saying your husband is the leader of the house.

You’re comfortable with it, huh. You don’t sound comfortable. You comfortable with walking around barefoot in black asphalt parking lots? What about truck stops? You want to walk naked in the middle of winter, what about the middle of summer? Why don’t you show up to work naked? Why not reveal yourselves to customers if that’s what you support?

Have you noticed yet that I’m being a dick? Not an asshole. A dick. Because I’m trying to make a figurative point, not a literal one.

[Asker]

@love_conquers_lust it's so perverted to walk around naked in front of your parents and kids. Very gross

[Asker]

@love_conquers_lust her husband is the leader of doing the chores

[Apple1996]

Two of my kids eat off my boobs so I have to be somewhat naked throughout the day

[Apple1996]

My husband doesn't do chores lol

[love_conquers_lust]

I don’t see a problem with chores. They need to be done. Grass won’t cut itself. Trash can won’t walk itself out to the curb. Dishes won’t clean and put themselves in the cabinet.

Point is, that doesn’t mean he should accept being walked over. This woman is playing games. The “Betas” just throw their arms up and say “fuck it, do whatever you want” because they don’t want to put in the effort to navigate the childish behavior coming from their spouses. As far as I can tell, there’s more children in that house than just the kids that need discipline. She’s not getting it. This is the heart of what’s bitched about frequently on this site. Both men and women in these situations are pussified not because of chore distribution, but because of how they treat one another.

[love_conquers_lust]

You going to tell your kids to go to school or daycare naked?

Doesn’t do chores? Doesn’t sound like he’s leading anything. We just can’t say for sure.

[Asker]

I didn't mean your infants or toddlers seeing you naked.

[msc545]

I don't think either of these options has anything to do with why divorce has anything to do with why divorcees occur instead, I think divorces are mostly about money in that women realize that they will receive a lot more money and property in a divorce than they ever will in a marriage. The other reason that I think divorce occurs is because of hypergamy, that is, the notion among women that they can always find a richer taller better looking men than the one they are married to without any financial harm to them and with the approval of most of their girlfriends as well.

Men realize all of this too these days and that is the reason why most of us have no intention of ever getting married. No sane man signs a contract that allows another person the legal right to ruin his life.

[artgorgeous]

It means women are irresponsible and immature girls who can't stand difficulties in adult marriage life. Instead of solving marriage issues, they just choose to run away. And by the way, legal system in America even made this plausible for them, because they can take away everything from their husbands. Too much comfort for women and this is a huge problem in western society. In family court by decision 97% men pay alimony.

[DubiousIntentions]

@artgorgeous That is because a lot of women were stay at home moms raising 4 kids, so never had a full-time job to be able to get retirement benefits.

[artgorgeous]

@DubiousIntentions I don't think that there are a lot of moms having 4 kids. In the US, the percentage of such families is below 10%. And if you have 4 kids, you will definitely get benefits from the government, especially if you're single mother.

[Mamaliv]

Can’t answer for everyone but I divorced my husband because I did not love him and I do not think it is fair for either person to be committed when feelings aren’t matched. We only live once, and I don’t want to spend my years looking back thinking they were waisted or that I waisted someone else’s time.

[DarkLegacy]

Did you love him when you married him, how much did you get from the divorce.

[Mamaliv]

No, I never really loved him. I was just young and stupid. I asked for nothing, I wanted a clean easy break 50/50 custody with our children even. Unfortunately that didn’t last because he wouldn’t hold to his responsibilities so I have primary custody now and what he pays in child support doesn’t even cover groceries for a month. We have pretty equal pay, there is nothing he has that I want other than our kids having the best that we can give them.

[DarkLegacy]

I thought of such, you should never have married him.

[Mamaliv]

You’re right, I was 18 when I got married and if I’d had known boundaries back then I wouldn’t have.

[OfMiceandMen]

I think it often has to do with their husbands not paying them much attention anymore.

Both have to keep making an effort, or the relationship just dies.

I think women tend to realize when something is dead and make the decision to get out faster. Most guys would just keep going along oblivious or have some tail on the side.

[molonski2]

Love doesn't mean anything , marriages have nothing to do with Love , these combinations on the main are financial in the main , so maybe she's bored , maybe he has not have enough success , maybe she has been shoeboxed , maybe she thinks she's found better.

[Nikki1989]

There are a million reasons someone would want a divorce. It is not as black and white as some men make it out to be.

[Asker]

I meant among the 2 reasons

[Anonymous]

It seems people don't understand anymore that marriage is a lifelong commitment that takes work and compromise. I also think divorce benefits women more than men. There are other factors like cheating and abuse, but the main reason is women just seem unwilling to stay the course and figure out how to make things work, and divorce is an easy out.

[DarkLegacy]

Good comment

[FunkyMonkee]

There's just no pleasing them! They were taught all their lives that they're special little princesses and the world worships them so, when they don't get that, they divorce their guy and try to find someone else that worships the ground the walk on.

[DubiousIntentions]

Women can no longer trust their husbands because they probably are cheaters.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HNMUDfNLIsg

[DarkLegacy]

It is women who cannot be trusted, most women marry for money and they are more likely to cheat on their husband.

[Noether]

No, they don’t. 20% of men in relationships cheat, for women it’s 13%.

[DarkLegacy]

@Noether No that is wrong

[Noether]

@DarkLegacy No, it’s the truth. People have conducted anonymous surveys with thousands of participants and found this to be the case *consistently*. Men cheat more often than women, that’s simply a fact.

[DarkLegacy]

@Noether Never seen such a survey and if so probably fake surveys carried out man hating pathetic feminists

[Noether]

There was more than one survey that found this, as like I said they’ve found that this has been true consistently. The most recent studies finding the same thing were conducted by the “Institute for Family Studies” and the “General Social Survey”. The former is an organization dedicated to ‘strengthening marriage and family life, and advance the well-being of children through research a public education’, and politically they lean center right, the “General Social Survey” is widely considered to be the most rigorous used data on the behaviors and attitudes of the American public and is used and is the most widely used source of data for such topics, so no, and you can take take off the tinfoil hat.

[MementoMori777]

That women are the reason to most of the failure of marriages? 😶

[LazerBean]

If people get divorced, the marriage has been failed for a long time already.

[MementoMori777]

I know I just wanted to trigger some people to see who falls for the bait ha 🙂

[LazerBean]

You're pumping up a lot of failed men lol

[MementoMori777]

Probably, but no matter how pumped up they are, their failure won't change unless they do so I see this as harmless, you'll know who to block now if anything 😂

[LazerBean]

True lol

[tiajoka]

@LazerBean it's sad how simple it is yet do many men deny that. Men I notice give up on their marriages much sooner before the woman ever files for divorce. He becomes complacent in the conviencinces she offers without even appreciating them let alone reciprocating. Why wouldn't she divorce? It's a draining relationship that leaves her worse off. Then the man whines about her getting half of everything she also has worked for 💀 I don't agree with divorce for any reason other than abuse or infidelity, but let's not pretend it wasn't at least a 50/50 situation.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter. My husband is amazing and I'm happy asf in my marriage. Just it angers me how brainwashed these incels are, putting women down because of their own shortcomings and lack of personal responsibility. Just like the raging feminists lol.

[MementoMori777]

Got one lmao

[LazerBean]

Everyone whose marriage fails is deserving of that failure

[tiajoka]

You didn't man I wasn't responding to you 😂 please don't wank off to that proceived success... it's misplaced. Better luck next time tho!
I don't know how advanced your reading skills are, but I was speaking on 90% of the male responses to this post and in general 😉

[MementoMori777]

Well if you haven't noticed she posted her own opinion, I thought you were doing that indirect cowardly low-key shade crap most people on here do where they don't directly say it to you but they speak to another person trying to low-key diss someone else, I just don't understand how you ended up on my opinion to speak to someone else, I'm no genie but was I suppose to know you were excluding me out of your comment?, mostly if that percentage is that high 😂

It's like me going on someone else's post on your opinion on that post to then say most women on this site suck, clearly you'd assume and include yourself in it as Well, but I'm glad we can clear up this simple misunderstanding, carry on

[inhua]

lesbian marriages also end in divorce far more than gay marriages

that alone should speak for itself

[DarkLegacy]

Where was the option for women divorce to get the money

[Kelly6]

that is the important one

[DarkLegacy]

@Kelly6 It is a very easy way to get money

[Kelly6]

yup,

[dolemite58]

i think social media and dating apps have made women have the grass is greener syndrome worse than ever before. They don’t want to work through problems because they think there is unlimited different dating options and they’ll find that “perfect” guy eventually. Then they end up alone and bitter, drinking wine and talking to their cats 🤣

[SixFootSexy]

The laws are setup (family court/alimony) to incentivize women to get a divorce. The state will step in to be a provider for single moms so they have little motivation to stay in a relationship even if it's just that they're unhappy.

[Billlewis]

It means that as a male, if you're planning on getting married, you damn well better make sure she's happy every single day, because she runs the show, period.

[Jamie05rhs]

This is because of the philosophy of their heart. People don't believe in commitment anymore. They believe it's okay to change husbands anytime if they don't feel happy. (They missed the point that marriage isn't about feelings.)

[AmeerX]

Don't know what the figure came from but in my country, females do indeed divorce for financial reasons and luxurious lifestyle more than just love

[Jamie05rhs]

@AmeerX So it's not just the USA, then. It is bad everywhere.

[AmeerX]

Obviously. There is Romeo and Juliet, Laila and Majnu and other love stories but there is also the story of the guy who eloped with a girl on a horse. They went to the river and the eloping girl told the guy this horse will submerge us in the river.
The guy asked, how do you know this. She replied horse's Mother also used to do same.
And realizing his mistakethat if a horse did it, then his lover and his daughters will also do same stuff. he took the girl back and asked forgiveness and left.

[Jamie05rhs]

@AmeerX Wow. That's quite a story!

Who are Laila and Majnu?

[AmeerX]

😅 I can say Laila and Majnu is much better than Romeo and Juliet.

It's an Eastern equivalent so to speak.

So, Laila is a black girl whom the Majnu, a boy from a wealthy family comes to love.
They can't be together but we have many associated stories coming out of this one.

One such pertains to a Cleric. The Cleric is praying and Majnu enters his tent and accidentally thrashed into him. Then he Cleric blurted out, "You motherfucker, didn't you see where I was praying to Allah"
Majnu replies, "Oh holy man, I only see Laila everywhere (implying his deep love for her), but didn't you see Allah whom you love and prayed to.

Upon hearing this cleric felt ashamed at his futile prayers and hollow love.

[AmeerX]

There is also the story of Sohni and Mahiwal
Anyhow, the girls and women are jealous of Sohni and Mahiwal as it is an open secret they are having an affair.
Sohni being a potter bakes a big pot to use to cross the river to meet Mahiwal at the hiding spot.
The girls find out about it and they out of jealousy replace the baked clay pot with an unbaked one. Sohni uses it and halfway through the river drown before Mahiwals eyes. Mahiwal jumps into the river to save her but drowns as well. Both of them United in death 😔

[Jamie05rhs]

Aww.
Haha that's funny. 😂

[Jamie05rhs]

OMG! 😱. That's horrible!! 😰😭😭

[AmeerX]

Actually, they way I described Laila and Majnu, the story lost its tragedy in translation. That's why you laugh.
It's also tragic.
The moral is a maulvi, pastor or Pandit can pretend that they are love God but true love is blind and the person can't be distracted.

Anyhow, their are other stories as well if you like.

We actually frown upon Cinderella story 😅, I mean come on if she was really good then she wouldn't be disobeying her parents or step mother and waited for things to get better 😁

[Jamie05rhs]

Oh. Okay.
I see. Makes sense.

Cool!

Wow; really? Well, I don't think you understand it fully. Cinderella's stepmother was a real cunt. And Cinderella wasn't really disobedient. She was a good kid.

[AmeerX]

Cunt or no cunt. Sometimes things seem they are bad but they might not be.

[Jamie05rhs]

@AmeerX I'm sorry, but you're 100% wrong on this one, my friend.

[AmeerX]

Well, I don't think so. I remember our telling if a couple gets married they are for life or something like that. You could think same here.
She needed to follow orders. But because it's scripted in such a way that her step mother is demonized she wins all the sympathies

[Jamie05rhs]

@AmeerX I don't know what to tell you, man. I don't want to argue with you, and I don't want to insult you, because you are my friend. But you just don't get it. I really think you should read the story so you will know how it was really like in that home.

[AmeerX]

You don't have to insult me 😂. But I understand your point.

[Jamie05rhs]

Lol. Thanks.

[rigmarole]

It means the majority of women have commitment issues and have no issue lying in front of everyone about it to get a ring and a cake.

[rigmarole]

They have no morals, no loyalty, no respect, and no honor. They don't know how to compromise, they lack patience, and are poor communicators in general.

[DarkLegacy]

And a divorce settlement

[HelpfulWoman]

I chose the first, because the second will often not lead to the first.

[AgnosticFumbler]

They don't love their husbands anymore. They love his money though. Women these days are always looking to upgrade too. Take his money and trade him in for a better model, to use a car analogy. That's why a lot of guys have stopped marrying them.

[LazerBean]

Because when a men and women who have nothing to offer get married, inevitably the man is going to try to keep his money and the woman is going to try to leave.

[Static_In_The_Attic]

Marriage is like a hurricane there is a lot of blowing in the beginning & when it’s all said & done your house is gone.

[Pyrofox]

The most consistent reason is the delusion of there's always greener grass. And then like 3 months later reality kicks in.

[Pyrofox]

Particularly if the kid turns out to like the father more XD in which case life can become insufferable as the kid constantly reminds the mom of the now ex husband XD.

[Finchie40]

Selfishness and immaturity are usually the reason most relationships do not make it so it goes
To show , females are more selfish and immature

[Anonymous]

Most times women just marry the guy for their money.

[DarkLegacy]

So very true

[Kelly6]

it means women marry for sex not by love.

when sex spark fads they file divorce

[AmeerX]

I thought sex was more a man thing 🤔

[abc3643]

The answer HAS TO BE 1.

If you love someone - regardless if they love you back - you do not leave them, period.

[Unit1]

All I know they have something in common.

They sure enjoy getting paid for it (alimoney and child support).

Not all but pretty much most.

[strateguy632]

most like you said matched 70% in the question. the other 30% she earned more than him so she didn't want a divorce.

[Juxtapose]

Gee, it seems if you make a system incentivized to fuck men over and reward women for being disloyal then they will be disloyal. Who would have thought?

[Unit1]

The best part of this is that even the autists can see that.

[Juxtapose]

@Unit1 yeah it's pretty blatant and all you need to do is look at the situation objectively to see it.

[DarkLegacy]

That is quite right, women are far more likely to cheat and that has been statistically proven, and they always get money in the divorce settlement.

[Juxtapose]

@DarkLegacy well I wouldn't judge women based on that if true just like we don't judge men for being more violent on average.

[AimeeKyle]

Men generally have more to lose in a divorce and will stick it out even when it’s shitty. The men will find things to consume their time, like work, golf, sports, cars, etc…. Anything to pass / enjoy their time.

[sheenagwapa]

this is just a hunch but i think men are more likely to cheat same in my country men are also the ones who always cheat

[DarkLegacy]

Other way round

[Noether]

Yes, around 20% of men in relationships cheat, for women it’s 13%.

[KrakenAttackin]

Most of these women never lived their husbands, they loved the idea of a wedding and the status of being married.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Women are wrapped up in Husbands they wish would show them and express more Love to them, but Men fail to this for them.

[Likes2drive]

Because they have less to lose so once they get bored of him they can just get another one afterwards. Guys have more to lose and usually will put up with more

[Freyke]

People forget what marriage is. How big and important a commitment of this is. It's people who say yes when they aren't even ready for it.

[Jersey2]

It means they are not nearly as good at picking a guy as they think they are. I wonder what they are missing.

[Anonymous]

Because only dumb men get married, a smart man doesn't waste time marrying parasites (femoids).

[DarkLegacy]

Maybe one of the best comments.

[Thumper2thump]

I Initiated my divorce after 25 years due to my ex not having personal growth.

[love_conquers_lust]

They don’t like being poor. And when they get out on their own, they get poorer.

[Noether]

Divorce rates have gone down significantly since the 70s-80s and continue to fall, so the monetary factor isn’t sufficient to explain divorce trends.

[DarkLegacy]

@Noether Wrong again, divorce rates have gone up

[love_conquers_lust]

@DarkLegacy No they haven't

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether www.census.gov/.../marriage-divorce-rates.html

Which trend are you talking about? They've both trended down. Money is the driving factor behind both. It's also the number one reason cited for divorce. I know it doesn't sound good on paper, but, this is what the data shows. It depends on how you want to interpret it.

[DarkLegacy]

@love_conquers_lust yes they have

[love_conquers_lust]

@DarkLegacy You have a chart right there from 2011 to 2021. The marriage rate has dropped by 40%, and the divorce rate has dropped by 53%. The divorce ratio was 59% and has dropped to 46%. That's where the 50% of all marriages end in divorce comes from. Many of those people are recidivists, which is why the true ratio is around 25%. So no, divorce rates have not gone up. People are forgoing marriage at an alarmingly high rate. And it all ties back to money and wealth distribution. Finances is the number one issue that breaks marriages apart.

And yes, women initiate a majority of divorces. Generally, always have as far as I know.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

I agree with you that finances can put stress on a relationship and people delay marriage until they get money and may divorce over it, but the research on that has indicated that the financial stability (along education level) of both the man and the woman are predictive of whether they’ll marry and stay married. What it doesn’t show is that it’s just fueled by women trying to get all the man’s money by divorcing him and both of them usually agree not to get married before/when their finances aren’t stable

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Also, single women make more than married women or women with children across the board, but only 39% of marriages end in divorce nowadays, so most women aren’t getting any profit from divorce (and even women who do get divorced don’t always profit from divorce anyway, it depends on your state’s laws). This notion that women generally go into a marriage with the intent to divorce and take all the man’s money paints women as comical boogeymen and is ridiculous on the face of it

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether The other side of the global equation is the number of people. The price of stuff is affected by the number of us and how productive we are per capita. Birth rates are finally dropping (LOOKING AT YOU FUCKING INDIA AND AFRICA). So it will take some pressure off with fewer people. In the US, it’s typically no fault divorce, so everything becomes commingled and split down the middle without a prenuptial.

It’s a gender difference that drives the macroscopic trend of women initiating divorce at a higher ratio. I don’t blame your gender for wanting a to be comfortable in a nice environment. I do blame any gender for blowing up a relationship for financial reasons when they knew there was uncertainty in what they were getting into. But we also have a community caused financial problem on a global scale that is exacerbating the problem.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Birth rates go up in regions that are more food insecure, politically unstable and ravaged by war, as having a few ‘spares’ is the only way to keep your family going and grow enough food and take care of the sick and elderly where there isn’t a good social safety net and vice versa, increasing peace and prosperity across the board would reduce birth rates, so I’m not blaming people who live in those areas for doing what they have to do to survive.

Men and women both worry about financial security, the main difference is that only women get pregnant and they’re usually the ones left to look after the kids when men walk out on the women they’re with, even while they’re pregnant and vulnerable. So it’s less about personal comfortable and more that when it comes down to it, women know that they’re the ones expected to look after kids by society even if the fathers disappear, and it’s a fact of life caring for children costs money, and most of the money people with kids get goes into childcare. If she’s pregnant or falls sick after a pregnancy and her husband can’t pick up the slack at that time, their kids won’t fare well. It’s a fact of life that having and raising children is expensive, so people often need to take and do take that into account when they’re considering getting married– hence why fewer people get married and have kids, and then once they have kids, if finances are rough and their children aren’t getting their needs met, that can stress both parents out, and perhaps the women are more proactive about ensuring their kids will be have what they need and that is part of why they usually end up initiating the divorce. But again, most of the time people are careful about settling their finances before they get married, it’s just that the market is unpredictable so even if you were financially stable when you first got married, that’s no guarantee that things won’t go downhill later on that will put a strain on your marriage

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Your previous post on going into a marriage just to divorce, I highly doubt that’s the intent, so I agree. Yes, single women make more in exchange for human capital, children. It’s an “unaccounted” benefit mothers realize.

I actually do put some blame on impoverished people for pushing high mortality rates. If they can be taught, then they’re not as helpless as some think. It’s unfair to the children who die prematurely. But they don’t believe that, it’s normal.

Yes, the social safety nets protect against economic shock. That’s why stupid shit like defunding the government to be at the mercy of business owners who notoriously give “charitably” to causes of their choice is a bad idea.

To me, everything you mentioned about children’s security revolves around comfort. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. Live within their means. A mother and father has to take care of their kids and themselves.

It’s not wise to reproduce like jack rabbits in hopes of making a better life for themselves at the expense of their kids. But sex is easy access entertainment, so it’s hard to get that message across.

[Noether]

I was talking about impoverished countries when discussing the strategy of reproducing more when there’s a high chance they’ll die of some disease before they’re 5 and there aren’t any proper medical facilities around you. People all around the world did that and still do in unstable parts of the world. You and I aren’t better people just because we were fortunate enough to be born in a part of the world where we don’t have to deal with that, so Im not going to judge them.

People in developed countries have the exact opposite strategy generally speaking– they push off marrying and having kids until they’re financially settled, so first time mothers are older than they used to be on average and people marry closer to their 30s. The main difference between it being about personal comfort vs. the comfort/well-being of your children is that the former is more self-centered, while most people agree that parents have an obligation to provide their children with the best lives they can.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether My ancestors did it too. There was a time when they were born into the same conditions. They pulled themselves up out of it. Europeans had those same problems and to a worse degree with animal husbandry. That’s why corporations globalizing is a good idea. It lifts those people up. And at the same time, they should treat people fairly so they’re not being exploited or becoming greedy themselves exploiting each other.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

They didn’t “pull themselves out of it”. Thousands of your ancestors lived their entire lives like that, until some random most likely unrelated guy in their region invented some new gadgets that kickstarted the Industrial Revolution and suddenly some of your ancestors were able to move out of the countryside and start a new chapter in their lives. A complex web of international politics meant some regions of the world benefited from this while others were used to provide resources that would be used to fuel the Industrial Revolution (for example, African rubber was used to build most cars), and though there have been innovations and achievements in other parts of the world, these occurred at different points in time and just as many parts of the world weren’t influenced by the ancient Chinese invention of paper for a long time after it was developed in 105 CE but were still using parchment alone until the 11th century when paper first reached Europe, and even then its use did not become widespread until the second half of the 14th century, and there are similar examples with gunpowder and the first gunpowder based weapons– cannons, and in Central Africa you had what is likely the oldest iron forging in the world. There are many Western innovations that have not yet fully caught on in other parts of the world, since that is just the nature of things that originate in one part of the world and spread to other regions.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Oh yay, I love going into history. Some Chinese ruler tried to outlaw slavery like 1000 years before the official worldwide push from the Western World, their people killed him and reinstated it. Some other cultures tried it but they never succeeded. Ages, ages happened. Copper, Bronze, Sail, Enlightenment, Discovery. They say Rome was built with concrete and infused with water. We owe the agrarian age to a bunch of hunters who realized there were a bunch of crops were growing in concentrated areas of previous encampments from human defacation.

You’re talking about colonization. That’s what the age of Sail was about. It was crowd funded by the East India Trading company, world’s first stock market. They travelled the world searching for goods. They traded with locals and shipped it back to their countries of origin. Unfortunately, some of these goods were slaves because it was still a worldwide problem in all nations. Prostitution and slavery are the two oldest institutions in human history. These resource enriched countries saw an explosion of manufacturing in the industrial age. Life improved for them AND the people they traded with. That’s how comparative advantage works in economics. That’s how globalization works. Really, globalization isn’t anything new. It’s been happening for thousands of years. The Silk Road stretched across land. Colonization stretched across seas. Then, they all figured out something. Slavery stood in the way of progress. Slaves aren’t as productive. So, they started outlawing it. Civil Wars fought over it. But one by one it fell like dominoes. Because slaves aren’t as productive as waged labor. If you participated in slavery, you fell behind economically. Europe saw an explosion of innovation and inventions because of it. That’s why most modern ingenuities are owed to Europeans. Timing.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

If slavery is so much less profitable than paid labor, then why do we prefer to buy so many of our goods from places that use a great deal of slave labor– cobalt for our cellphones is mined by child slaves, and clothing made by the same. We still recognize the value of slave labor in producing cheap goods which is why we pay for it, we just outsource the ‘dirty work’ to corrupt people in the least stable parts of the world.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether That’s because those countries are too capitalistic with no stable government or a liberal democracy like the US. That’s what happens when you have the right to private wealth with no government to enforce rule of law, or their right to that wealth. The oligarchs become the rule of law. That’s why children aren’t paid shit. Their is no department of labor to outlaw that. And they’re a third world country because of it. If I were a corporation, I would demand establishment of a government and rule of law before setting up shop there. That means no slavery because it reduces profits. It also means paying fair wages to prevent parasitic capitalism from repeating itself.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

The truth is that slavery works quite well when you’re first getting started and don’t yet have the resources for machinery and the like. Even many of the northern US states most known for their industrial development such as New York were initially slave states. It’s only once you’re already established and have access to resources that it becomes more of a liability since at that point you can afford to shift your focus from what is cheapest and works quickly to maximizing efficiency, but they still use slave labor, albeit indirectly, by buying goods produced by slaves, and slaveowners know they can always find customers in the free world

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Slavery always loses to waged labor. Always.

[Noether]

It doesn’t lose to it, it enables it, and then becomes a liability at which point it is discarded. That is why nations around the world have used it when their countries were still underdeveloped, and only move towards abolishing it after they are already starting to become more successful and developed. It’s evil, but there’s a reason people all around the world practiced it.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether I didn’t say it couldn’t be profitable. I said it can’t be AS profitable as waged labor. It always loses to waged labor, always.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether It’s for one simple reason, slaves don’t give a fuck.

[love_conquers_lust]

They don’t give a fuck about making money for someone else for free.

[love_conquers_lust]

Think of volunteering. It’s so fucking hard to get people to volunteer. That’s why communism doesn’t work. It’s basically one big forced volunteer system. Doesn’t work.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Saying that slavery always loses to free labor is like saying that crutches always lose to walking unaided. Yeah, slave labor isn’t as efficient as machine labor and you need to hire someone to terrify them enough to get them to work from dawn until dusk and be on the lookout for sabotage, but when you don’t have money to hire people or buy machinery or the luxury of time to develop new technology, slave labor gets you enough money to get off the ground and the leisure to focus on building new technologies while they work for free, and then once that’s taken care of the ‘crutch’ outlives its usefulness and becomes a liability, and that is why only well to do, established nations discard the practice.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Also, you didn’t answer this question:

“If slavery is so much less profitable than paid labor, then why do we prefer to buy so many of our goods from places that use a great deal of slave labor– cobalt for our cellphones is mined by child slaves, and clothing made by the same. We still recognize the value of slave labor in producing cheap goods which is why we pay for it, we just outsource the ‘dirty work’ to corrupt people in the least stable parts of the world.”

You responded “that’s because those countries are so corrupt…”

By “we”, I meant “we in the developed world, including the US” prefer to buy from these places rather than buying from parts of the world that don’t use slave labor, not why is there slavery in those countries. We recognize the value of cheap goods, slaves produce things cheaply, so it follows logically that we in fact value slave labor because it is cheap.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether But there’s a problem with your critique. How are you going to hire the people to enforce slavery to begin without money? People who volunteer for cruelty just don’t last in society.

There’s a disconnect in your reasoning and where you think money comes from or what it even is. It is trust, a vote of popularity. It’s used as a tool to motivate people.

You can’t discard the trust, or you lose the popularity. That’s what rich people are. They are society’s way of saying everyone thinks you are valuable. If you eliminate everyone and you’re the only one left standing, you’re not worth anything to anyone. Money was created for communities, it REQUIRES more than one person. It has no use otherwise. Discarding people discards potential popularity votes in a sense. There isn’t incentive to do so.

No everyone is created equal. There’s wealth distribution where some people’s opinion matters more than others, according to wealth at least. But Democratic voting is a great equalizer and cuts through all of that. Those countries you mentioned, again, they don’t have that. They don’t give themselves a voice to say “I’m not putting up with this shit and neither should you.”

Then you speak of innovation and technology. The reality is, trial and error is the tried and true method of progress. It takes effort, PEOPLE trying. People creating MACHINES to try for them. Innovation can happen in a lab, a factory, or in a remote field where a bunch of guys form a chain gang of picking grapes off trees. It will ALWAYS behoof people to have the greatest number of people with the greatest quality of life. Maximize quantity verse quality.

This circles back to our discussion about child rearing and how many kids you should have. Children with an education will always outperform children without, always. It doesn’t benefit us to discard the crutch. It benefits us to HARNESS the crutch and repurpose it to contribute.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Henry Ford crushed his competition when he learned that paying workers more outperformed his competitors. Instead of doing what his competitors did and tried to punch down on his work force, he made a lateral move and paid them more. Tgen he expanded and crushed his opposition with sheer volume. He hated shareholders AND he hated unions. He called both of them parasites. He made the most progress towards hiring women and minorities. AND he had the Supreme Court breathing down his neck while he did it because owners were crying about not being payed any earnings.

Point is, Ford demonstrated that the further away from slavery we go, the better off everyone is.

[love_conquers_lust]

What’s funny was if you look at it from the owner’s perspective, THEY felt they were being enslaved. They bought shares and felt they should have a return for their money. But…they weren’t fucking doing anything besides owning the risk of spending money. Which fucking everyone already has anyway, they just have more of it. Instead of creating value, they’re more concerned with preserving theirs. That’s why Ford hated them.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

It’s cheaper to hire one overseer than to pay all of your laborers, also you could form a partnership and promise them that they’ll get a percentage of your profits if you don’t yet have anything to pay them, and it’s easier to make a deal like that with one person than to convince a whole group of people to perform hard labor for you for the same, especially if you’re already friends or have some similar trust-based relationship. Only once you have something to show will people have enough confidence to work for you, and enslaving people provided that initial boost. Like I said, it worked like a crutch– incredibly useful when you’re first starting out and lack resources, and a liability once you’re more established.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Henry Ford already had some money and resources to pay his workforce, so at that point it made the most sense for him to do that as he had something better than coercion and terror to incentivize that. When you don’t get have resources though, you need to use something else to get your business started.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Henry Ford did NOT have money. That’s why he dealt with the lawsuit from shareholders. He didn’t pay them earnings in exchange for their investment.

Partnership? Once you pay them, THEY’RE NOT SLAVES ANYMORE. That analogy doesn’t hold because technically, that makes everyone a slave until they are paid every two weeks. But again, there is a CONTRACT. With slavery, there is no contract. Don’t confuse indentured servitude with slavery either.

You’re not reading what I wrote and are arguing to argue.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust
I was talking about a partnership between a slave master and his overseer, not his slaves. You misunderstood me.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust
And yes, he had some money to get started with– investors gave him $28,000 to get started. In today’s money that is about 1 million dollars.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust
And no one’s investing or lending the equivalent of 1 million dollars to some random person they can’t trust to repay it. The fact that he was able to get that sum proves that he was already somewhat established from the get-go.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

He was the chief engineer of Edison Illuminating Company of Detroit before he began his car-building enterprise, so he had enough resources to be credit-worthy and pay his workers

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether You can't have money before not having money. You are just not following the implications here. He did NOT have money, he approached investors with his ideas, they decided to fund him, then he got the money. Stop saying he already had money as if it dropped out of thin air. He had to convince people to fund him. How did he do that?: He got an education... up to eighth grade. He learned how to manufacture by taking things apart and putting them back together. He supported himself farming which he didn't particularly like and running sawmill. He apprenticed as a machinist. He learned and applied himself and sold his pitch to investors. It didn't just happen out of nowhere.

You want to paint him as some privileged individual, "established"? In what way? There was no blue print for inventing something the world had never seen. There is no how to manual. He tried, and he worked. That's the kind of man he was. If by privileged you mean you got a basic education and had a family that raised him, then yeah, that's privileged. Many would call that blessed. And that's what the US strives to provide everyone. But we are failing in that regard right now. We need changes. You can read my posts to see where I stand on political issues instead of trying to decipher my dog whistling.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

You said money, I said he had *resources*– investors are a resource. You can have resources before you have money.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Also, he was the chief engineer of a company, so while he needed to use other resources to get started (investors), he wasn’t broke.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

He was also born into a part of the world with the infrastructure to support that kind of invention. If you have the kind of opportunities he had to someone born into a third world country, who likely can’t even get an 8th grade education, he was relatively privileged– all of us born into developed countries are. And the people that first came to the Nee World didn’t have that kind of infrastructure either, so they used slave labor as their get rich quick scheme at least to get off the ground until they had some infrastructure in place, after which they gradually shifted to only paid labor at least domestically (we still name use of slave labor abroad though– cobalt, clothing etc).

[Noether]

^@love_conquers_lust

if you compare the kind of opportunities he had…

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether What point are you trying to make? What is it that you want?

[Noether]

@love_conquers_hate

The first step to fixing the issue of modern international slavery is for citizens of each participating nation to spread awareness, whether their country functions as as a group of consumers or suppliers. Treating it like it’s a historical relic which we’ve moved past just because we no longer have to see the slave labor that goes into producing our things and we work through intermediaries in the developed world is harmful, and understating its effectiveness is misinformative and can lead to complacency.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether No. You can entertain your own pity party. You go over there and tell them that. You tell them not to enslave each other. You can tell them they are guilty for sins they didn’t commit. Oh boo hoo my daddy’s daddy’s daddy enslaved yours. Grow up. A child is not guilty for a parent’s sins, nor a parent for a child’s. It’s written in US law, and it’s not changing.

It is a historical relic. Stop dwelling on something that didn’t happen to you. You have no right or claim to the suffering of others. No credit, no blame. If you’re in the US and you’re a minority or woman born after 1964, it is YOU who is indebted to every single white male born after the same year from Affirmative Action. This isn’t something historical, it’s STILL happening. You have 3 generations walking the Earth that are legally oppressed because of retributive acts pushed by women in minorities in the 60s and 70s. It is YOU who owes an apology. The recent supreme court ruling AFFIRMS that, and its only going to get worse.

I gave you real solutions. Real history. And you bitched, constantly. Ford did more than any businessman alive at the time to explicitly help women and minorities, and you’re fucking complaining about him.

What is your race? What is your gender?

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

I’m was very clearly talking about international slavery today when I discussed how we in the developed world buy cobalt and other goods produced by slaves and the things people in different parts of the world do today, not anyone’s daddy’s daddy’s daddy or whatever. We in developed countries extract resources and buy goods produced by slaves in developing countries. Those are our own actions as consumers that we should do something about. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions and purchasing decisions.

I’m not fucking complaining about Ford any more than I’m complaining about myself or anyone else here having more opportunity than people in developing countries, it’s just important to be self aware.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether No you weren’t. You went into history.

I gave you solutions, all you did was complain. You want people feeling sorry for themselves instead of using proposals spoon fed to them. Those solutions already exist in some form, and they’re working. No one is forcing them either, that’s for sure. Hence, why they’re struggling with it.

If you feel it’s important to be self aware, then again, what race and gender are you?

[Noether]

@love_conquers_hate

I discussed history in the context of explaining the reasoning behind why slavery works as a starting point, because it has explanatory power but when I talked about people today I specifically said ‘modern slavery’. Things don’t occur in a vacuum so you need to give the background/history when you’re discussing why things happen as they do, that’s not the same as saying that people today are responsible for the historical development, and again, I clearly said that I was discussing the phenomenon of *modern* slavery when I brought up things we in the developed world should do nowadays

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether It doesn’t matter whether it’s modern or historic, the solution is the same. You’re still trying to justify your bitching. Your “self awareness” is a red herring for making people feel guilty for sins they haven’t committed.

You haven’t answered my question. What race and gender are you?

[Noether]

@love_conquers_hate
And it shouldn’t matter to you what my race and gender are, because you shouldn’t make judgements of people based on those anyway. I care about what people have to say and don’t agree with anyone who thinks you should rate the quality of an argument based on the characteristics a person is born with. My statements about needing to spread awareness and be responsible consumers aren’t race or gender specific, they apply to all of us in the developed world. We all should be opposed to providing a market for activities that lead to children being buried alive in mines every day or dying of cancer from breathing in toxic waste

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether I don’t care what you say anymore. I SHOULDN’T either because you’re unethical.

[Noether]

@love_conquers_lust

Advocating for not buying slave produced products and being bothered by our part of the world’s involvement in that is not unethical, twisting people’s words and attacking straw men is.

[love_conquers_lust]

@Noether Again, see my other replies.

[Pacquet]

I think often times women mistake men's behavior for something else

[Redstang88]

They change their minds and find a better option

[KostasKouvalis]

Because they marry the guy after just a few months of dating

[Anonymous]

One factor could be that in many places, courts favor women. Perhaps if men came out with more wealth than they had during the marriage, you might see more divorces initiated by men.

[strateguy632]

nah we think differently. my pal had a wife that earned more than him and didn't divorce , even when i said he might get spousal support from her. guys think differently. gals like more shoes...

[DarkLegacy]

That is spot on

[Andres77]

Is this statistic world wide or just in your region?

[Andres77]

I’m on my third divorce. I initiated all 3.

[Anonymous]

It's also in all fairness a no brainier in most cases the woman will get the man's assets and not vice versa.

[Vegasrunner]

Women are incitivised to divorce so this only makes common sense.

[LiamJHayden]

It means that for those women divorce seems preferable to remaining married.

[strateguy632]

seems? ever heard of "spousal support" that courts give one way...

[LiamJHayden]

@strateguy632 I work in the courts. Yes, that can be a huge part of it.

[Alex8736]

All I know is the leading cause of 100% of the divorces is marriage

[strateguy632]

cause? yet some marraiges not divorce proving marriage wasn't a cause. all divorces happened to married, but not the cause. all divorcees breathe air but not the cause.

[Anonymous]

The welfare state is too strong. There is a reason divorces shot up once it was released. It rewarded mother's for not having a father in the home.