The Reality of Nice Guys, Alphas, and Other Self-Defined Men

[Nice_Guy_Last]

This whole imagined dichotomy of the male gender is annoying, so let me be clear: there is no such thing as a "Nice Guy" or "Bad Boy", "Alpha" or "Beta", etc. Reality is not black and white, most especially with people. I have seen men who are bike gang members with tattoos and wear leather jackets with demonic symbols, but are the most gentle, kind individuals ever, while I have seen men who are tree hugging hippies, but also beat their women.

On the issue of "Nice Guy" vs. "Bad Boy", I frequently find that the Nice Guys view women as fragile individuals that need constant help. Not only is this demeaning for the woman, it also causes Nice Guys to be more controlling and to be more outraged when a girl refuses his version of happiness. "Bad Boys", on the other hand, are basically "fuckboys": they abuse their women's misplaced love by causing emotional, physical, and often financial harm.

We know, however, that the majority of men do not fall into these categories. To insinuate that men fall into only either category is to deny that men can be more than one of two things, which is ridiculous.

"Alpha" vs. "Beta" is similarly ridiculous. The notion that there are only those who follow and those who lead fails to grasp the innate complexity of the human person as well as the complexity of society. Many men lead happy lives leading in instances where they are proficient in their understanding of whatever obstacle lies in the way, but also deferring to others when they come upon a problem that they cannot find the solution for.

In conclusion, men should not be typecasted as one of two possibilities when reality tells us that each man is unique unto himself. Really, all people should be offered this opportunity.

[Tim47]

Here are my views

Often the alpha and beta terms are just used in jest to refer to the "playboys" and "neckbeards" not to just blanket all guys under one of two terms. I live on campus at college and I can tell you there are in fact some guys who just have a way with girls that they can get anyone they want, as well as there are some guys who are so closeted they can't even pick up the courage to talk to a girl.

This beside nice guys don't finish last by any stretch of the imagination. Of course its harder to get laid at clubs if you don't take advantage of drunk chicks but when it comes to relationships nice guys pull ahead. Most people say "nice guys finish last" because they take on the assumption girls will just come up to them and give them a relationship. If you change the term to "guys who dont try finish last" then that would be the correct statement.

Being a nerdy, introverted "nice guy" I can say for a fact that just being you and building confidence is enough to get people to like you for you. Heck, I was voted as the vice president for my college this year mainly winning due to female votes so.

So to all those "Nice Guy's" out there who think the world is against you, just have a try. Go out of your comfort zone and just talk to girls. When you get those butterflys in your stomach and start to feel sick just push through it and force yourself out there. You won't regret it!

[Nice_Guy_Last]

In my mind, Nice Guys are not just guys that are nice, because we aren't defined by a single attribute. Nice Guy is a culture of unintentional misogyny, where men act out of kindness, but often suppress a woman's free will by imposing their own view of "happiness".

[Tim47]

Yea, it seems more to me that people define themselves more than others define them though

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Thus the title includes it as a "Self Described" attribute.

[mystintri]

I disagree.

What people define as Alpha is not truly what Alpha is.

Alpha men are few and far between - huge emphasis on FAR. Those men end up being MLK, JFK, Vladamir Putin.

Just like with anything else, there needs to be a balance.

Challenge girls, don't b easy, have standards, listen to them and connect, flirt/tease, don't be a push over, go after what you want, be ambitious in life.

The difference between Alpha men and Beta men (just for the points sake) is that the Alpha is usually the one calling the shots. He truly does wear the pants. I'm like that - I attract girls who LOVE that. Beta men are the opposite, they try to please their girls by making them happy... When in reality, she just wants you happy. When you're happy, you listen, you go out to shows with her, you provide a kick ass life, you feel confident, you experiment in bed, etc. So she keeps cheering you on.

Men shouldn't be typecasted because there are so many different types of girls. To one girl I'm the manliest, sexiest, most amazing guy. To another, the fact that I'm in music is too safe, she needs a man in her life with some adventure. Meanwhile, because of her small views - those guys who are living adventurously on a small scale don't have much on the music producer who travels the world and rides jet skis in the Indian Ocean. Not my loss.

Hope this broadened some minds.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Still, regardless of how you define Alpha and Beta, you are painting with a broad brush. You say that Alpha is a selective group, few and far between, but in your dichotomous view, that means that a largemajority of men are Betas. But to lump so many people together in one group directly flies in the face of individuality. It's hard enough to group people together, because no one person is the same as any else, but to put so many into one category lacks plausibility. There are more than alpha and beta.

[mystintri]

That's why I put in parenthesis that it was just for the examples sake.

Also, it's way more accurate to say that Alpha males are more similar in their defining core traits than it is to say that all men are Betas.

Alpha is a smaller group of men- the minority - meaning that having a more accurate understanding of what DOES make an Alpha male is totally possible. Now, labeling other men as beta? I think someone just got lazy.

I think you'd find personality types interesting, if you don't know about it already that is.

Check out personality types "not socionics" and that'll give a (still broad) but zoomed in version of the "other men" I. e. not alphas.

[mystintri]

Also, there is only ONE alpha male. If this made sense, than there is one guy on earth who is the most dominant. Of course that's just ridiculous. Hence why Alphas exist amongst communities, in organizations, in schools, in households.

The alpha male does exist, but its always changing depending on the environment. Is a multi-billion dollar CEO an alpha male in a prison? Most people would say no. In my opinion, if you're a CEO and a genuine one, you do things in a particular fashion that rises you to the top. Your logic, your predictions, your accurate and mostly successful calculated risks.

Alpha in terms girls. That was created by the "manosphere", so you're right :)

That's all up for debate.

[kaylaS91]

I fully agree that the majority of men don't even fall into these categories in the first place, and most fall somewhere on a sliding scale between the many labels that seem to have been created in the past few years. Which, in itself, kind of makes people identifying themselves as a 'nice guy' or whatever, all the more irritating.

Regarding your last point, though, I don't think I recall ever hearing a girl actually use any of those categories when referring to men. It's usually guys whining that they're a 'nice guy' so why aren't women interested in them, and instead are willing to open their legs to the 'bad guys' when they're more deserving, etcetera. As if these oh so 'nice men' are spoiled babies throwing a tantrum when they don't get what they want, tbqh.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

Self-described. I have no illusions that women impose these labels, but rather, it's the men themselves that have created them. This is a condemnation of men who perpetuate this ignorant falsehood, not an attack on women's views of men.

[kaylaS91]

yup, you pretty much hit the nail on the head there. It's really quite a vicious cycle, too, because whenever I used to try to reason with these guys, they'd reply with saying that of course I'm one of those manipulative girls who enjoy 'bullying' others when they're down. I'm like...
wut?

[ReboundyJimmy]

Great post, Nice_Guy_Last, with many dead-on points.

Some Bad Boy type guys start out as Nice Guys. Some Bad Boy types fall in love and act like Nice Guys.

Some of the most promiscuous girls start out as Nice Girls. Some of the girls that party and sleep around the most become truly faithful, loving partners to some lucky guy.

All categorizations of people are silly because everyone changes.

In the end, throwing around labels is just another form of ego massage. That is, if you can make a label to justify your current life philosophy, you're ego feels pretty good (or at least, better if you're have a shitty day/year/life).

[bluenose1872]

Absolutely right. People struggle to make sense of everything these days a feel the need to pigeonhole everybody to keep order. That's nuts. I've known ruthless gangsters who everybody is terrified of and they were the most charming, soft spoken and polite men you could ever meet. I've known loud mouths telling everybody how hard they were fold like a cheap beech chair when a guy half their size has attacked them. Point is it's usually opposites in this world. A dangerous man nurtures a calm, approachable personality. A pussy tries to act loud and dangerous. It applies to a lot of people and different situations. Insecure people talk a lot to cover it. Evil people smile and grin a lot to try and look friendly, ie politicians

[pineappleshortcare]

"I have seen men who are bike gang members with tattoos and wear leather jackets with demonic symbols, but are the most gentle, kind individuals ever, while I have seen men who are tree hugging hippies, but also beat their women."

THIS ^^^

I've never understood these stupid labels because they make no sense.

[the_rake]

' I frequently find that the Nice Guys view women as fragile individuals that need constant help. Not only is this demeaning for the woman, it also causes Nice Guys to be more controlling and to be more outraged when a girl refuses his version of happiness. '

I think also there are 'nice guys' that are more egalitarian and want women to assert themselves equally like they do. However they are frustrated when they do not fit this norm and prefer to conform to more 'traditional' gender roles where the man is patriarchal and pampers them, etc. They do not want a submissive woman that demands they must be the one to approach, etc. because they feel they respect women too much for this. So this would be another example of where the reality defining the differences between two different categories in a not-so binary system could be very different than the cariacatures people seem to like using.

[BusinessBasketball]

The true nice guys always finish last and never gets the girl. They have no confidence or any fight in them. These are your followers that wants you to put a leash around their neck. Think about maids.

A hybrid nice guy/bad boy always finish first. Girls like them. These are your leaders. They have tons of confidence and want to be on the top. Think about your successful CEOs.

A true bad boy always ends up in prison, because they are thugs. These are your lowlifes. They never do anything special in their lifetime. Think about a prisoner that is spending rest of his life behind bars.

[Nice_Guy_Last]

This highlights the problem though: you say nice guy/ bad boy hybrid as though the standard is only nice guy or bad boy, which is patently false. the majority of men live outside of those categories.

[Polocrew]

Fuckboy - guy who gets laid often. You nerds take this alpha beta bullshit to whole another lvl, Pretty sure it started as joke on misc and y'all obsess over this shit eberu day lmao. y'all aren't werewolves, "alpha" means strong and beta means "weak" that's it. And this nice guy, bad guy bullshit too. Nice guys are more like guys who don't get laid and they are viewed as nice bexause they don't and bad guys get laid more often and they are viewed as mad because you gdi nerds aka 98% of this site lmao can't do shit about it so you call em "bad guys". Lol

[Spiorad_Aisce]

Can we please bow our heads as we get an Alleluia chorus from the choir in the balcony. Absolutely nailed it. spot on, 60 yard field goal - Don't need to comment on this, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Chief16]

Most people ever talk about Alphas, Betas, Niceguys, playas, bad boys in only sexual terms and there lies the heart of the problem. I mean emphatically men understand men, its simple. But bring women into the equation and men are almost always defined sexually. Of course the reverse is also true.

[kavyareddy2]

The only ones I've seen call men alpha or beta are other men. I've always found that insulting to men.
If they disagree with a man's point of view on something he is called a beta. Such labelling does nothing to actually counter the argument. It's also immature.

[chintita]

nice take, most guys who define themselves as any of the above without joking need to stay a kilometer away from me :D

[Benk111]

Thank you I love this myTake we always hear about 10 types of guys you should avoid or don't date the self proclaimed nice guy when people aren't just walking stereotypes.

[DianeDuffus]

In the majority people want to label guys girls political candidates etc. all to make life easier to tolerate. Life is a shade of gray ability in shades of gray but only the intelligent understand

[Phoenix98]

Interesting viewpoint and one that I agree with these titles and defined positions so to speak are rather ridiculous. Good mytake my friend and quite a few dead on points.

[MasterofYou]

I'm not sure if I agree with you on this but it is a very good opinionated post... Very good writing...

[MasterofYou]

Oh by the way Alpha men can be nice guys... And they can be monsters... There is Good and there is Evil...

[Nice_Guy_Last]

And then there are many shades more of morality. Not all things are just good and just evil. I think that, while, yes, Alphas can be nice, they definitely cannot be Nice Guys. Both are specific sub-cultures with set tenets that necessarily conflict.

[MasterofYou]

Well I guess I do not agree being in this lifestyle for over 40 years there are nice guy Alpha's and Their are monsters... They are not Alpha... They are just sadistic psychopaths nothing Alpha about them.. I do agree that their many shades Kink... So I guess we can agree do disagree...

[MasterofYou]

*And their can be monsters (corection)

[ColinHarvey]

Believing in human categories is nazistic - it's a bit like how women ask what sign you are on a first date. Major red flag.

[LiveFreeorDieHard]

finally someone who gets it.

[loveskittens]

I found that part on "nice guys" very enlightening

[ConsultantIsBack]

Good take 👍✌