Where did the tradition of men paying for dates come from?

[RiseofArtemis]

For me I can only really explain it that back in the days before any modern technology existed before 1900 the men or boys usually worked already since the age of 10 maybe less and the girls of the same age had to help out at home, look after the younger siblings or grandparents which meant they never had an opportunity to earn money in the first place.

Men paying for dates didn't come from being nice to them or wanting to flaunt their wealth. Girls just didn't have money most of the time which meant the guys paid for them. It wasn't even socially pushed, there was just no other way most of the time.

Do tell me if it does make sense and if you think there is some other reason for it.

[OpenClose]

Yeah you're pretty much on it with the actual reasoning. When you're a sole monetary provider, asking her to pay would be like asking your children to pay. With what money?

I think it was the Victorian era where you really start seeing the overt "chivalry" type of stuff. Women were seen as somewhere between children and "delicate angels".

On the note of "chivalry", that was a code of ethics for knights or guards on how to fight ethically to represent your people with honor. Had nothing to do with women really. Many, especially if they were political guards, had to swear oaths of celibacy, or in some places were literally castrated. So like..."chivalry" for dating is kind of a funny term to me. I picture a eunuch trying to challenge a woman to an honorable duel.

Also keep in mind, "finding the richest man" only came about after agriculture really started kicking off. Women didn't own resources. And the wealth disparity between men was absolutely insane. Her quality of life was determined entirely by the income of the man she married. It's a bit silly for this expectation to persist unless you are both economically struggling enough that only one has time to work the long hours.

Some like to say the "provider" role goes back way further than that. But prior to agriculture, with hunter-gatherers (>95% of our 200,000+ year history), men who hunted provided meat, not "all of the food." Women were mostly gatherers and recent estimates say gatherers provided something like 60%+ of the food. And gathering is consistent enough to sustain the tribe.

This is not to say we didn't LOVE meat. Just that hunting was too sporadic in success to survive off of. And even then, food was shared evenly in the group anyway. That is, it didn't go to one man and to his family. It was a group effort by the hunters and they shared it with the group. They even took specific measures to prevent an individual from taking sole credit which I can give examples of. Some are kinda neat.

These days in rich countries it makes more sense to go Dutch on first dates. Or I like the idea of taking turns taking the other one out once you're long-term. Unfortunately, guys are limited in how much we can change this unless we somehow did it en masse. In which case, I think any mature woman wouldn't actually mind the change. Right now, there seems to be some symbolism or whatever which I don't really care about. Like "if the man pays, it was a date. If they go Dutch, she doesn't like him." Which is weird af, because I consider it respectful for a woman to pay for her own stuff.

[Twalli]

Women didn't have an income. The man was actually paid by the woman's family to marry her. Even when they got rid of dowries, women still didn't have jobs. So they didn't make money, which means they couldn't pay for dates because they didn't have money.

Now most people, male and female work and make money, women who expect men to pay for everything, oddly enough still want money that they have to use on themselves. In actuality unless the woman doesn't work and won't work, she should have to pay for some of the dates.

[pupluv45]

so why do children still take the last name of their father's?

[Twalli]

@pupluv45 because that was what identified them. The man's surname.

[pupluv45]

how is that fair?

[Twalli]

@pupluv45 It's not fair, it's what was.

[pupluv45]

Because women didn't hold jobs 100 years. even if they did, it would be so meager , she would never be able to afford a meal. women and girls did housework and never ventured out of the house.

[Anonymous]

Men pay for the food and women pay back with sex. Tradition never go out of style

[WhiteBoyChill]

I don't know some women expect men to pay but give them nothing back

[SmasherJosh5000]

@WhiteBoyChill then it's simping in the case you're referring to

[AviatorTom]

I agree with you, and it goes back even farther than that. In the Middle Ages, and earlier, women were subservient to men, were not allowed to own property and didn't have money. Of course, back then, marriages were almost always arranged for political or economic reasons, and dating didn't really exist.

It wasn't until the 1800s that men and women started dating, and the trend continued... men had money, women didn't, so men paid for the date.

[Guy13]

Men always provided all the way back 4000 years ago from Abraham till Present.

[OpenClose]

More like 10,000 or so years. But that's out of 200,000+ years of anatomically-modern humans. Prior to that 10,000 years, men did do a decent amount of providing, but it wasn't exclusive to his wife and children. Hunter-gatherers were/are "fiercely egalitarian" where sharing is expected. Mostly because they are highly-nomadic so don't have a good means to accumulate resources. And because hunting was such a group effort that infighting would be a major problem.

[AMS700CX4u2]

Father's have always been interested in the success of their daughters prospective mates. The ability to produce offspring and their ultimate survival was dependent on the males ability to provide food and shelter. The strength of a family was in it's numbers. Not wise to invest a woman's reproductive resources on a chance.

[bolverk]

Developed through Courtship see this webpage ; https://nypost.com/2016/05/15/the-fascinating-history-of-how-courtship-became-dating/

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Its evolutionary. Before civilization, men were the ones who are made to hunt and endanger themselves and safeguard women while women nurture and nest because a ratio of more women than men would give humanity an easier time to repopulate. Then when we create civilization, it involves the same principle as to why men work to support the family while women stay home and care for the family. Because they're the ones who have the job, so they're the ones who have to support.

[USLegionary]

Things develop the way they did naturally. So women of marraige age basically didn't really earn or earn much so a guy to prove he was a good marraige prospect took a girl out and paid for the date.

[DesiUwU]

prolly cuz the men were primarily the workers back then, therefore THEY had the money

[pewter_moon]

Woman weren’t allowed anything “back in the day.” Woman were essentially purchased from her parents.

[TroyDT2]

Women generally did not work outside of the home / farm and in many cases were not permitted to own property unless the parents had no sons.

[Prof_Don]

Because the vast majority of women didn't earn money until the past 2 centuries

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Men usually invite women on dates. It would be rude to ask her out and expect her to pay.

[es20490446e]

Women didn't work, hence they didn't have money.

[Shinzu]

Maybe because women couldn't work in the past, so men should pay

[boobliker]

I think it has to do with enslaving our women

[Jennz6]

Because women didn’t have a job or money so the men had to pay for everything

[msc545]

Women have jobs and money now and still won't pay for anything.

[Jennz6]

@msc545 because you make more

[msc545]

That does not mean I should have to pay for things like your damn food. You are an adult.

[Jennz6]

@msc545 you can afford it

[msc545]

Of course I can afford it and that is not the point. If I want to trade sex for money which is apparently what you want, I have my pick of a lot better-looking, more skilled, and frankly nicer women. No point in patronizing amateurs.

[tiajoka]

@msc545 sex for money… for a 20$ meal? 😂 dude just say you’re too broke for an actual prostitute so you take advantage of poor girls looking for love.

[msc545]

Yeah listen where I live a $20 meal consists of an appetizer. If you can't pay for your own food don't go out on dates. Stop expecting other people to pick up your bills.

[tiajoka]

@msc545 I’m not saying that you can’t have that standard. If you want a modern woman, go for it! But don’t expect her to be anything else.
My point is it’s pretty gross to think of a date as payment for sex, because of the devalued amount. Even if it’s 50, or 100$ date… you think a prostitute that looks like her is that cheap? No, it’s a silly standard. If you want a traditional type of wife who will respect you and stay home to raise kids; then you invest into that. If you want a modern wife who doesn’t want kids and works as much as you do and will have sex before you’re married, go for it! Just don’t be cheap or a creep.

[msc545]

@tiajoka I really do not need your worthless advice. Stop wasting bandwidth on here.

[tiajoka]

@msc545 maybe you should ♥️

[Anonymous]

And I wonder where the tradition of men having to be the one to do the asking out come from

[WTFdivorce]

Spot on good take.

[anon1903]

I agree

[Engin12]

it shows power that women like

[Teriyaki70]

Waaay back