Single men over 40, would you rather be with a beautiful clueless girlfriend or a successful independent woman?

[Anonymous]

It looks like the more successful and independent the women is even if she is pretty the less older successful men wants to be with her.. why is that so 🤔

Updates

+1 y

Why do women become independent? and what does it actually mean?
If you are interested, heck out my take on:
A new perspective to the question "Would you rather be with a beautiful clueless girlfriend or a successful independent woman?"
A new perspective to the question "Would you rather be with a beautiful clueless girlfriend or a successful independent woman?" ↗

[SuperManiac]

I married an independent and successful one. I mean she's not a millionaire but she was ambitious enough to start from a lowly intern to the head of a publishing company as writer and editor. She achieved her career goals in life, so to speak, and from the ground up.

It's never been important to me whether or not a woman is very successful. I do quite well for myself as a software engineer. Independent helps a lot since I value my own independence, but I just enjoy it when a woman is passionate about something. It's like with my wife, her love of books generates endless new subjects to talk about each day as she reads more and more books. I like this.

With that said, I think clueless is kind of an oversimplification for more people than not. I do find some people only seem to have distractions in their lives and no major goals and passions, and I do find that incredibly dull. Yet, for example, I find a motivated dancer who is passionate about her dancing career, even if she wasn't the brightest in skill, to be brilliant in her own way... and same for artist, musician, athlete, etc.

[SuperManiac]

[...] who is passionate about her dancing career, even if she wasn't the brightest in [school] [...]

[Asker]

you are absolutely right. be successful in whatever feild you are in.
I noticed independent secured men are okay and quite supportive to the success of their women. You are a showcase of that. Thank you for sharing this here 🌹

[SuperManiac]

Cheers. I think in my case, I dated all sorts here, and one thing that's definitely important to me is independence... not just because I value mine a bit and don't want to be joined at the hip with a woman, but it also feels more genuine to me. It's like I don't want to be needed like an addict needs a drug. It makes you question if they truly desire it or just need their fix to feel okay. So it's like when a woman has built her own success and independence, and she has her own world, it feels more genuine to me, like real love, when she invites me into hers, and I invite her into mine. So I like independent women who are enthusiastic with about a lifelong goal that doesn't involve me -- the success part was never so important to me.

[Asker]

I see.. quite inspiring and makes me hopeful ☺️

[ecfresh]

A clueless girlfriend has no appeal to me but what I question is how independent is the other option? Does she still have needs that a relationship can satisfy or because she is independent would she rather be single? Please explain in your mind the difference between an independent woman and someone not independent.

[Asker]

I appreciate the fact that you asked me and didn't just assume 🌹
Independent in the sense of financially, mentally and emotionally stable that you can trust her even in your absence to take the right decisions and to have your back.
So if god forbid something happens to you, you know that she is strong. And that she has boundaries when dealing with others, respect the privacy of your unity, and is not influenced by random opinions.
For me being independent does not mean being rude, stubborn or a man hater! I see it as a quality you gain when you have experience in life, strength, confidence and wisdom.
All men are not independent either and it is not cool as well. I would rather be with an independent man who is secured within himself, then being with a cutie with six packs and empty essence.
Now, there is no absolute independence. Men and women both need each other. mentally, emotionally, sexually or even for just companionship. I am, yes, independent but I have a heart that faces fear, doubt, loss, or joy just like any other human being. So why wouldn't I need a man to share my life with. And when I say need I mean in a healthy way and not the obsessive clingy way. Needing is not bad when its for the right man. Otherwise I'll wait and nothing wrong with that either isn't it?

[ecfresh]

Of course because no one is a mind reader I appreciate you expounding on your thoughts and putting context to your words, providing not only a definition but some examples.

Yes, in that context an independent women is completely desirable; I would label those traits as maturity. As you said, someone who can take over and carry the complete relationship when I am down and out; who also trusts me to carry the weight when she feels vulnerable.. that’s the ying/yang harmony that healthy relationships thrive in.

I guess in summary I view your question to men as would they prefer a clueless woman whom they can control and they have the decided power over or do they prefer a woman who is their equal and can no longer be manipulated. For me I want my partner to be strong, independent, confident, and powerful because she is my partner in the world and is my better half. Why would I ever choose a weak or clueless better half?

Well said about being a human being even when having maturity; I agree everyone has needs and no one is perfect. It takes authentic strength to admit your fears and trust in your partner to help you feel safe. Both people crave the security the other can provide on all levels as you said and when their relationship is rock solid they can do amazing things in the world!

[Asker]

so beautifully said.. thank you 🌹

[ecfresh]

You are welcome. What was your inspiration for asking this question and have you learned anything yet from the responses?

[Asker]

I posted a question that wasn't anonymous and was surprised by the answers. I guess I'm new to all this internet/ social media interactions kinda thing. So I just became curious to see if people didn't know who behind the question will they be any nicer or understanding or is it going to be the total opposite.

I learned that some men think women want to be independent because they don't need them or that they hate men. A huge misconception of the reality. But my question purposely was aimed to exaggerate the classifications into two extemes. So I expected a wide range of answers and that is fine we are diverse and we like different things. Some were extremely rude and offensive but that doesn't really bother me rude people exist everywhere. I just reported, deleted and forgot about them

[Asker]

I wrote a take about this today and you can find the link to it in the update to the question above if you are interested.

[OlderAndWiser]

I want to be with a woman who is kind, gentle, and intelligent.

[Asker]

These qualities are key to a relationship I agree.. Thanks 🌹

[itsJay]

I'm 27 so I'm not within the criteria of this question, but I'll give my opinion for additional perspective.

I think it's very important to have some form of self responsibility and efficiency skills. I wouldn't want to be with somebody who needs to be dependent on others, or a partner.

There's this one girl I know-- she lives off a large allowance from her family overseas, and her entire aspiration in life is to find a man that can fully financially support the life she wants. The only thing she works on to improve herself is working out, making sure her hair is good, and wearing a lot of expensive makeup everyday. This is the exact type of person I would absolutely not date, under any circumstances.

All that being said, there is a completely different demeanor that women present when they are successful and independent, and not in a good way socially. And the problem is: They're usually competitive with everybody, and as a result, they rarely see anybody as an equal. They put most people below them: all men, other women, people that make less money, people that are more selfless, etc.

Successful independent women (mostly in America) lack modesty, and they call that absence "being strong". That's what drives men away. Not bringing attention to your success, and devaluing yourself out of courtesy, is something most of these women will never do, nor understand.

If you're wondering what I'd want after depreciating both sides-- it's someone who's driven by a passion that's not money. If you work to be happy, that's more attractive than anything to me.

[Asker]

Wow that is an impressive well stated point of view I couldn't believe your age.
I agree in general terms to everything you said and sure there are many variables contributing to it including cultural understanding of what a strong woman mean as you correctly stated.
My question neglected to address these aspects you mentioned. So I want to clarify that I didn't mean a person who is not a human first, kind, loving and generous to others. Strong does not equal a bully, narcissist, or self inflate person.
I enjoyed reading your answer and I wish you the best of luck in your life 🌹

[itsJay]

Thanks for listening. I think it's important to contribute a new perspective to a topic to add value to others' understanding. Seeing the other people responding, you've definitely received a wide array of variation. That means you asked a good question! All the best to you as well 🌻

[Asker]

yeah but its alright I don't take these things to heart.. glad to see someone young, respectful, wise and understanding

[Oram52]

If men don't like successful independent women then how come majority of them are in relationships?

Which comes first career or relationship? Men love independent ambitious women, I do, and I only date independent ambitious women. I find them very desirable.

What men don't like women married to their career who put their career or ambitions before relationships. If her career is more important to her then I have absolutely no interest whatsoever. Same with independent woman who put her career first but now all of a sudden wants a relationship.

Another thing I don't get. She is independent ambitious women but not when it comes to taking half his possessions after divorce?

Guys have to be careful, if she is not putting effort in relationship then obviously its not going to work out, its best for men to avoid such women.

Another reason I think is they were so fixated on their careers that they've left it too late to find compatible partners. Like I said independent women have absolutely no problem at all finding partners because relationships were priority to them, they are happily married.

So the problem is not being independent and ambitious but which comes first relationship or career?

[Asker]

good perspective 🌹

[KrakenAttackin]

Anytime you hear a woman described as "strong and independent" this should be a huge warning flag to a man.

[Anonymous]

I'm not that old, but I would lean away from the "successful independent" woman.

For one thing, those often turn out to be code words for entitled and arrogant.

Also, what I would identify as a "successful and independent" woman at a glance, is unappealing. I don't like the attire and presentation.

Another thing is that it also generally means the women are older; they spend all this time building up at a career, but then they're somewhere in there 30's or older, still without a long term partner and just aren't as attractive as they used to be. If they were men, then focusing on their career would get them more attention from women. So perhaps women's perception of that leads them to feel that their education and career will appeal to a man. But it doesn't work like that.

Lastly -- and perhaps most importantly -- I assume they work a lot, why would I want a partner who is working all the time? If I'm working and being busy often then I want someone who is going to actually be there and be available when I'm not working. I want someone who is going to actually be there to take care of any kids we had as well; I don't want a nanny to raise our kids. So I want someone who is going to be there to contribute to the piece that's missing from me life that having a partner would fill -- the social aspect -- and your "success and independence" does nothing for that.

[Asker]

I agree to a certain extent to what you have stated in your comment and respect your approach and opinion. Thank you for shedding some light and for contributing.

[Miristheiss]

Successful?
Her job doesn't attract me to her.
Independant? She doesn't need a man in her life?
Well, I am a man so no need for me... I will go for the girl who needs a man and love.

If women believe this than feminism has lied to you.
Also that career satisfaction trumps marriage and family for 'most' women.

This isn't the road to joy, contentment and happiness for most women... even though that is what they think.

Compete to be like a man, abandon all in pursuit of a career, sleep around and soe your sexual oats, you do not need men... maybe when you are 35 and on top you'll settle down if some dude is good enough for you... not that you need anyone.

Looks at those twits who pursued love and marriage at 22 who are stuck with a husband, home, 2 kids... a family. Theyare missing out.
That might make 1 out 20 happy.
Simple, weak women.
Career and independance is all 90% need.

[Anonymous]

Either woman would be perfectly fine, so long as she was easy to be around (and hadn't been around). However, an independent woman would have the edge simply because it makes for a healthier relationship. This is providing the independence came from the true self, rather than the adversarial ego.

It's the same with the definition of 'successful' as well. It's all about how you carry it. if a woman is not humble with her success, then I have no time for her. Most men spend a lot of time on guard in life and want to come home to warmth.

[Opinion Owner]

You said ''I learned that some men think women want to be independent because they don't need them or that they hate men. ''

Above is a good example for the definition of egoic independence as mentioned earlier. When it comes from the true self, it's about sharing and being two different sides of the same coin, both able to stand alone, but both choosing not to.

[Asker]

valuable input I thank you for it. I didn't understand your second comment but generally I respect your view

[Opinion Owner]

My second comment is about what happens to us when our ego takes over, Vs who we really are underneath (dissolved ego). When we are our true self, independence is expressed in a powerful way, but if the ego is dominant, then it's expressed in a way that alienates.

[Asker]

I see, thanks for taking the time to explain 🌹

[Anonymous]

I prefer , a Woman that knows what she wants and isn't afraid to tell a guy. Its nice to have a independent woman but sometimes if she a little too much on the independence that's a deal breaker. I like a bit of both clueless and successful Independence.

[Asker]

Nice to know what you like right. thanks though for your contribution here

[bamesjond0069]

The top things i find attractive in a woman are:

1. Youth for fertility purposes
2. Innocence both less body count and less worldly experience.
3. Not materialistic.
4. Caring and sweet
5. Loves to cook clean writes thank you cards etc. Stuff that helps me and compliments my life make a house a home stuff.

An independent successful woman is not going to meet most of these requirements. Therefore I usually don't even find them attractive at all. I think of them mostly like dual purpose man/masturbatory toy. Like you can treat them like a man and you could have sex with them. But they aren't good to keep around at all because they have nothing to offer my desires. See above.

[COMMODOREII]

Wow 😕

[bamesjond0069]

@COMMODOREII well you can be with an independent successful woman. I personally only think broke and weak men like them. But whatever floats your boat

[Ally247]

Why are you assuming strong women can't be caring and sweet?

[bamesjond0069]

@Ally247 they could. I didn't say they couldnt. They are just far less likely to be a majority of things on this list.

Most successful women have to learn to be aggressive and that absolutely takes away from being as sweet and caring in your personality most of the time.

[Ally247]

Not accurate

[bamesjond0069]

@Ally247 very accurate. Can she be sweet yes but sometimes if she's aggressive it negates it. If a woman ever acts that way with me i would not be interested. I want someone always sweet. Not sometimes sweet. Even just capable of being not caring would be a turn off.

[Ally247]

Being strong isn't synonymous with being aggressive.

[bamesjond0069]

@Ally247 not always but often. For some reason most women think "many" or "often" means always. Smh.

[Ally247]

I didn't say it meant always. I'm just saying, you may have strong mixed up. Strong people aren't aggressive- they don't need to be. This type of woman you're describing, isn't an example of a strong woman. Don't correlate the two.

[bamesjond0069]

@Ally247 nobody is even talking about strong. in my opinion a woman who is the things im looking for is strong to stand up for her femininity and her household. The question is about "successful independent woman" which i initially assumed you mean when you say strong. Successful women often must be aggressive to become successful. And that is a huge turn off to me when im looking for someone to grow their nurturing side instead.

[Ally247]

Nah.

[David92506]

I'm independently wealthy (retired doctor) and I have been with several beautiful women, who were pretty much clueless. They all had $$$ in mind. They seemed to be extremely self-centered and self-absorbed and used people for their advantage.

I've also been with several successful women, and I was never good enough for them. They had such high expectations, and I doubt they would ever have a healthy long-term relationship.

[Asker]

Thank you for sharing your experience. So interesting. I don't understand what more would they expect from you but I'm sure you were as confused as I am now lol. I guess finding love or a good partner is not really that easy. Everyone seems to be facing difficulties! But I hope you find love soon, I really do.

[Gatman34]

Not over 40 but why would a guy want a self proclaimed “sTrOnG iNdEpEnDeNt wOmEn” who love to scream how they don’t need no man. Why would a man want a girl like that. You don’t understand men very well. Guys want to feel needed. And you women who go around saying you don’t need men and even act like men and are masculine of course guys don’t want you. Plus women like you are often high maintenance, assholes, narcissistic

[Asker]

well thank you for stating something that is a reflective you only. Generalization is only the language of ignorance with all due respect. Anyway thank you for passing by just don't get too excited attacking someone you think you know based on a perception. I have never claimed in my life that I don't need a man or that I hate men or nothing of that nonsense. I meant independent financially and strong to deal with life hardships and stand by her man side regardless. Mentally strong to be patient, kind, wise and understanding.
Also I pay for my own stuff how can I be high maintenance to a guy 😹.. find a trophy girl she will suck you dry for beauty and material things.
Anyways, thank for passing by Im not here to argue as you are entitled for having an opinion. have a lovely day.

[Gatman34]

I gave you a very good answer and how many men feel Not my fault you didn’t like it but it is true. If it’s not right then what is your explanation?

[slatyb]

Cluelessness is annoying. The interest of an independent woman means something. She doesn’t need me but wants me anyway.

[Asker]

A very successful wise man once told me, I feel proud walking next to a confident, successful, independent woman. It shows that I have such a great essence to offer and that she loves me for who I am and not what I have. He also said that is why I don't restrain her from spreading her wings or control anything she does ''she is with me by choice'' and I am with her by choice.

[MementoMori_]

Beautiful and clueless. What in the world are women thinking when they think men want a "successful independent" woman? They've been watching too much television.

Men want to be the head of the household and the ruler of their kingdom. It's nature. Yes, some men are more gay than others and probably like a woman who is more like a man. But normal men want a women, not another man.

[Texaskid1]

Beautiful and clueless. That way she will obey all my commands ( i. e. make me a sandwich) and I have somethong nice to look at. And if she doesn't talk even better.

Of course the chances of finding a women who does not talk much are close to zero. But a man can dream.

[Noodle_fan]

It looks like the more successful and independent the women is even if she is pretty the less older successful men wants to be with her.. why is that so?
it is because putting two big ego together in one place isn't likely work , especially on long term..

[Asker]

I see. It could be the case for some it is true. Thanks though.

[Carlos72512]

IT depends where in the world the man finds himself like if he is in a a south America country he would go for the clueless one to work with and enjoy it mean wild any clueless or successful woman in those countries are interested in what they can get out of him

[Avicenna]

It is absolutely a myth that guys do not want to be with successful independent women. They are very desirable!

In reality, successful independent women tend to have standards that relatively few guys can meet.

[Asker]

Thank you for being kind and neutral in your answer. I really appreciate it

[Avicenna]

No prob!

[jamesgoldman]

I'd opt for the successful one given I'm following a similar path

[KrakenAttackin]

You are setting yourself up for failure. If your career paths conflict (job location, hours worked, etc., especially when kids come along) you will both be miserable. Who needs that.

[jamesgoldman]

My career is mobile and has flexible hours... self-employment is great

[Asker]

@jamesgoldman exactly what a confident successful man would say!

[NearlyNapping]

Independent whether she is successful or not. I could never deal with a clingy dependent woman. I don't care if she's highly intelligent or below average. I don't care if she's beautiful. But she does need to be independent.

[Asker]

the relationship is healthier that way I guess.

[NearlyNapping]

For me it is. For many/most women it is too. I'd rather be with a whole person, rather than someone who needs someone else to make them whole.

[Asker]

beautifully said 👍

[Lliam]

I'd much rather be with a successful, independent woman. But she would have to be attractive. She would also have to love the hell out of sex.

[genericname85]

I'm not over 40 but I don't think I will change my view on this: I'd rather go with a clueless sympathetic, sweet girl than with a unlikable boss ass successful bitch.

[beefcakes88]

Is it too hard to find a beautiful yet successful independent woman? If I had to choose it would be a strong independent woman

[Asker]

It reflects that you yourself is a confident, successful and emotionally intelligent man who is okay to be with such a woman.

[Craftsman]

My choice would be for the intelligent independent successful woman. She will remain interesting far beyond the time the clueless boring bimbo loses my attention.

[Asker]

Interesting view

[ohshee]

I live smart independent confident women that are not afraid to take on the world who has a good heart that can read people and likes to get dirty one day and can be so hot and sexy the next day

[Asker]

Definitely 👍

[BurtoE72]

I'm on the fence, It's not her fault she's dumb and I'd take care of her however someone with brains Is good also and anyway I'm not one to be pregidiced

[Vinfet]

Well taken care of woman. Work out, eat right, live clean and work hard. So... someone in between. Both money and beauty fade, my persoanlity preference is a keeper.

[Asker]

I agree

[chicano1313]

If he is successful. A beautiful woman. If he is not a successful woman.

[Asker]

smart approach

[Bananaman177]

Successful independent women are actually just as clueless and ten times as arrogant.

There's nothing good about them, they don't even like themselves or each other.

[AynonOMouse]

Usually the women that refer to themselves as "independent" have bad personalities and often argue with their SO and always want things their own way all the time.

[Guy1467]

Successful, independent woman don't seem to want me because I have a kid and I can't travel and I'm tied down.
Bring on the cute, clueless younger women to break my heart. LoL.

[Asker]

lol no why should someone break your heart. I never knew older woman had issues with kids. I'm sorry to hear that

[Guy1467]

Thanks.
I get these women in their early twenties messaging me.
They tell me that age doesn't matter and I start to believe them and I fall in love like I'm 23 again.
Then they meet someone their own age and ghost me. LoL!
My 40 year old ex cheated and left because she said she wanted to travel.
I have a kid to look after.
It's her kid too, but she seems to forget that.

[Asker]

people are selfish and get their priorities wrong most of the times. I think this happens when someone is not clear with what they want and dont want and assume it. Then they get into a relationship and just get frustrated and upset with everything and everyone. Trying to fill a void they themselves dont know how to fill.
You can still travel with a child it is a matter of budget, good planning and mutual support. I see it all the time at airports. families travel with more than one child. Children were meant to be a joy and not a burden. It is like being unable to travel because you have a boss! if unemployed, I bet you would just ride somewhere. But when you got a job you budget your travels and plan them according to your work commitments.
Anyways, I think it is unfortunate that people (both men and women) avoid partners with kids like they're the plague! humanity disappoints me sometimes.
Just keep your chin up and face it with grace and good sense of humor. It will come to you. Maybe participate in activities or be at places where you can meet a single mom who is kind and responsible. Leave the young and pretty I don't think it is the best thing for you or your child. I wish you the best of luck though 🌹

[MannMitAntworten]

I'd have to meet and get to know both before I decide. After all, this isn't a grocery store - I'll take the blonde with the 160 iq and blue eyes with hour-glass figure... yeah, it doesn't work that way.

[Asker]

solid point of view I respect that

[MannMitAntworten]

Thank you.

[JustJen]

Are you aware a woman can be both good looking and successful and independent all at the same time?

[Asker]

I have personally seen it

[bamesjond0069]

Id take the good looking without successful or independent. 👍

[beechboy36]

Exactly!

[chicano1313]

Where is she?

[Anonymous]

Those aren't mutually exclusive terms there is no reason to believe that it is your sucess rather than your age or something to explain why they aren't interested in you if infact that is even the case.

[Asker]

I agree. My question fails to address the character and values of a woman. Also, it tends to group a huge diversity of human beings into two simplified spectrums. Thank you for noticing that :) . It is still interesting to me to see the interactions and different opinions expressed here.

[Dchrls78104]

For me it's a mix of both and neither. If like a beautiful and successful woman but not a clueless---or "independent"---one.

[Justababy]

I would not care as long as her personality is amazing

[Justababy]

Are you looking fo a man lol

[Asker]

lol why 😅

[Justababy]

Maybe you would be interested in me haha

[Asker]

wow so bold 😂

[Justababy]

Lol you never know

[Justababy]

Message me we can chat

[Connor-RK800]

Last time I was with a clueless girl, the cops came over and took her away. Turns out she had amnesia. So I'll go with successful independent woman even if I'm at an age where I am clueless.

[Asker]

lol dude are you serious. I died laughing. You always have the funniest comments of all.

[Connor-RK800]

Many men are known on G@G about how their dick is shaped. But me... they call me the funny boy. Ever since Arkham Asylum, Gotham's criminally sick hospital was liberated by the joker, my master plan is to make... jokes and get more attention from ladies than all these thirsty boys.

[Asker]

well, good luck with that

[Connor-RK800]

Thank you, sir.

[Asker]

wth 😂😂😂

[Pete671]

I'm 56 and would def prefer a successful woman, but a clueless girlfriend is still good, depends on what they're like as a person really,,,

[soleil2666]

Beautiful clueless any day.
Beauty is not negotiable - and independence is highly highly highly super highly overrated

[soleil2666]

Beautiful smart is of course just as good

[KrakenAttackin]

Well said.

[soleil2666]

Being clueless (innocent) is super attractive. It doesn't exclude being independent either.
If by 'independent' you mean 'overcompensating for average looks' - that is not much of a quality for most men. If you mean beautiful AND successful - I'd be surprised to learn such a thing existed (women simply go only the shortest distance possible - only men who are good looking and independent can be found, and those are very rare too)

[FatherJack]

Neither... I far prefer the peace and much lower stress of staying single. Equally , neither would be interested in a single dad like me

[Asker]

You can never know.. there are many women who do not mind kids and actually love them

It is nice to see a father putting his kids first though ☺️.. God bless your heart and family and wish you the best

[FatherJack]

Thank you for your kind words , often get a hostile female response , I simply can't be bothered with " dating " , no bitterness whatsoever towards women , I have a daughter to raise , just the thought of being trapped in a relationship again , after the marriage I endured , then ended , makes me shudder !! One huge advantage for me , is my Male Curse has greatly faded from chronic stress and age , so do not have the drive to pair up anymore , which is greatly liberating, Also prefer my own company , not a " people person " .

[Asker]

I understand and nothing is more valuable than our freedom and peace of mind.. just do what makes you happy dear 🌹

[MMayhem]

id much rather an indepent woman. as long as she still needed me, of course.

[Asker]

Why she wouldn't? I think both men and women complement each other and fulfill different needs in each other. That's the beauty of it isn't it 🌹

[MMayhem]

indeed it is. however, self built independent people can be very capable, and totally self sufficient.

[Asker]

capable and self sufficient! but there is nothing that can replace a good companionship, the warmth of the body of a person you love, the care, the touch, and solidarity when you lose a parent achild or a friend. When they are there holding you strong while everyone and everything is trying to screw you up.
There is nothing that can replace seeing their assuring eyes before entering a surgery or the minute you wake up from one. The joy of giving each other a family.
people now prioritize the wrong things and think remancism is love but it isn't. real life is full of events where you need a chest to lay on and be able to close your eyes in peace. When everything around you goes south and you struggle with your career and then find out that beeing capable and sufficient does not mean you neglect your basic needs and desiees as a human.
That joy that you get when you make someone you love laugh and when you take away their pain. When you attend for them when they are sick and they attend to your needs.
We were not designed or built to live alone. we are sexual social beings that yearn for intemacy.

[MMayhem]

you would be amazed how much hardship a person can endure. success is relative and self determined. independence is not always a choice and its not always easy to give up

[Asker]

so true

[KrakenAttackin]

The very definition of "independent" is that she DOES NOT need you.

[Asker]

@KrakenAttackin I don't believe that is totally possible though.. anyway I am not from the US or Europe so I guess we have different definitions for what an independent woman is

[KrakenAttackin]

OK, this is what YOU want in a MAN. No women would tolerate a MAN needing this from a WOMAN.

[KrakenAttackin]

Research the term "Americunt" and you will see what "strong and independent" woman are in the U. S.

[Asker]

I can't debate what happens in another culture neither can I generalize anything about men and women behavior. We come different and there is no war between genders in every day to day life. I have a father, brothers, cousins and colleagues. Why would I have hatred or negative outlook towards men? now, bad and ignorant exist in this world in humans regardless of gender.

There is a certain group who keep on fueling this anger against the other gender in the news or internet. But it is not as common or aggressive as they want it to seem. I see men and women live fine and kind to each other in my community.

I can only speak of myself though and I appreciate your comments.
have a lovely day/ evening depending on where you live 🌹

[KrakenAttackin]

If only it actually worked this day with modern women.

[goldcoast]

I personally like strong, independent women a lot. That being said, I know some friends who don’t. To each their own.

[Asker]

Yeah. We are so diverse in our wantings and needs. So true.

[MoscowMitch]

When I'm over 40 it won't matter because I'll be too old to have sex.

[jss123]

Why on earth would anyone want a beautiful, clueless woman? I've dated one before. She couldn't hold a decent conversation with me about anything.. No thanks.

[Asker]

Well apparently some guys actually want that. It is all over this thread of answers. But I guess if you are an intelligent deep person you would like to engage in intellectual conversations. Makes sense.

[Nik1hil]

See men over 40 are wealthy and will prefer the young clueless wild one..

[Asker]

That's a different way to look at it. You think so!

[Nik1hil]

Yeah..
Men over 40.. Don't want an independent women..
The need of independent women ends after age of 30 because men by that time start earning enough to afford all her expenses..

[Nik1hil]

If you are independent women..
You best shot is be a cougar..
And hunt down college and highs school boys..

[crazy8000]

Assumptions.

[CaptainKaraoke]

Successful, Independent Woman, please. Who is to say that is not Beautiful as well?

[loveslongnails]

I think your analysis is as reliable as pissing in a wind tunnel and hitting your target. What the heck do you base this "theory" on... "it looks like... etc, etc"? Nonsense. Total nonsense.

[Chris006]

It is mostly teens that are interested in clueless girls. I'd take an independent woman any day. Dont wanna be just some sugardaddy. Beauty comes from inside

[Asker]

'Beauty comes from inside' so obvious yet so difficult to see 🌹

[Chris006]

Indeed! It is my way of seeing things..

[Thatsamazing]

Why can't the "successful independent" girl be beautiful?

[Thatsamazing]

I mean you're essentially implying that no beautiful girls can be smart or financially successful/independent. It's odd and not really true.

[Asker]

I a gree to your observation. It is unreasonable nor realistic exaggeration. Also it does not addre character and personality and implied that women who are in reality very diverse can be simply group to one or either classification. You are absolutely correct a successful womab can be beautiful but the dilemma I later explain in the discretion states 'even if she was beautiful' again exaggeration.
Thank you though I appreciate it 🌹

[Anonymous]

Men want feminine, cool, women. It's too much if she's successful, independent, headstrong. Because maybe a guy has a female boss they hate? Men don't t want someone else playing the role of what it's their job to be doing.

[Asker]

I see, it could very well be the case for some its true

[AlphaBot]

Successful independent woman, is the sexiest and most desireable level. Yet your man scoping Dyme Thots in your car thinking he slick.

[Asker]

haha, I don't have a man but I guess it happens doesn't it. A light and funny way to express your point. It was refreshing to read thanks. Just for the record, I don't think all men do that, it just sounded funny to me.

[CuriousMufuxka]

Neither. I've done both. Surprisingly, the clueless turned out to be more bossy than the sidelined independent..

[Asker]

I actually have seen this behavior when dependent women become obsessed with controlling their man movements, relationships and money.. I think they want to secure themselves, so that fear manifest in a form of control and entitlement.

Not all though it is just that I understand what you mean by your comment.

[CuriousMufuxka]

In ways you are absolutely correct. What I've noticed from successful is an almost instant demand of entitlement. No facade, just straight up. The clueless just eventually get bullshit advice and move on assumptions I believe. Anyway neither.

[KrakenAttackin]

Possibly, when I see a woman begin to act like this, I kick her lose like a spent shell casing.

[Nishikigawa1]

Independent strong women are the place to rest my head as long as the balance is equal with gentle and sensual

[Asker]

good point

[DevylasArsaukas76]

the successful independent woman, but I stopped dating after I broke up with my ex in 2001, we dated for 7 years but something went south,

[Asker]

that's a lot of years off your life.. I hope you are okay!

[DevylasArsaukas76]

a little emotionally bruised but I've managed

[Anonymous]

Beautiful and clueless.

I am tired of the constant arguing, tug-of-war, competition, contrary nature, of "strong independent" women. Life is too short.

[Anonymous]

Because those women are often lacking in what men find most attractive in women... femininity

[Asker]

It might be the case for some true

[Opinion Owner]

It is definitely the case for many (perhaps most) of them, although most do not recognize it in themselves. I'm talking about behavior here, not looks. I think women today tend to forget about the importance of feminine behavior in male attraction.

[Opinion Owner]

A person's priorities in life are a clear indication of their mindset and personality, and that is a significant factor in their perceived femininity / masculinity and therefore their attractiveness to the opposite sex.

[Asker]

thank you for your insight 🌹

[Opinion Owner]

No problem. Thanks for listening.

[Anonymous]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you ask this question?

[Asker]

I guess out of mere curiosity from my end 🌹

[scooogy]

I meanwhile interpret independent as ignorant, so I'd say it depends.

[pappuccino]

if she's independent she doesn't need you. there's no such thing as truly independent though.

[Asker]

"There is no such thing as truly independent though" I agree 👍

[Anonymous]

Hmmm a young hot POA
OR a worn out bitter, jaded feminist... tough choice. Lol

[beechboy36]

Has to be successful independent lady

[Asker]

I think it shows that you yourself got these qualities or at least ambition and confidence. Hope you find your match soon :)

[beechboy36]

Me too. Thank you

[Anonymous]

I like stupid chicks. 18-25. If i dating a chick older she has to make more money than me to deal with her or at least as much