Girls, Would you think it’s a date if a guy you’ve met up with about 6 times asked if you wanted to go to this candlelight concert?

[Anonymous]

https://feverup.com/m/114869

Yes I would think it’s a date

No I would not think it’s a date

[Anonymous]

How long as it been? Because if it’s been more than 2 months and you haven’t asked me to be your girlfriend but want to keep hanging out without even calling it a date, I’m not going.

[Asker]

You can’t ask someone to be your girlfriend if you haven’t kissed can you?

[Opinion Owner]

That’s not necessarily true, but if it’s been more than a month (which I’m guessing it has since you’ve gone on 6 dates) then you need to start doing things to show your interest and move on to the next phase of a relationship. Stop overthinking and worrying. If you want the candlelight concert to be a date then be clear and ask her on a date, not hope she assumes it is one. Personally I want to feel like all these outings are actually going somewhere and he’s not wasting my time.

[Asker]

Well ok here’s what’s actually happened. We went on 4 dates where I said they were dates but nothing happened as in we never kissed or held hands. Then she sent me a message saying “I really enjoy spending time with you but I think more as friends”. So I said I’d find it too difficult to just be friends with her as I find her attractive. And then we parted ways and didn’t see each other for about 6 months as she said it’s probably we don’t meet then. Then after 6 months, I asked if she wants to meet for a walk in the park and she said yes. And then to a museum exhibit and now this concert. And she said yes.

[Opinion Owner]

Ohhh okay. Honestly I think your next move should be having a conversation and clarifying if she’s still just wanting to be friends. Right now it is both important to be clear, and be honest with yourself. If she’s still just wanting to be friends, but you know it’s too hard because you’re attracted to her and want more, then you just can’t be hanging out with her and need to move on. I know it sucks when your feelings aren’t being reciprocated, but you also can’t pull a relationship out of someone who isn’t interested in you, and quite frankly it’s a waste of time. I’m sure the idea of a talk is scary because you don’t want to get rejected again, but you also don’t want to assume your efforts are going somewhere if they’re not.

[Asker]

Thanks then maybe it’s better not to see her again.

[Opinion Owner]

Before concluding with that, you may want to consider having a conversation. There could be hope in the fact that she’s agreed to hang out these past few times. If you like her a lot you should at least get that clarity rather than walk away, I think that route would bum you out the most. If she’s still uninterested sure it’s would suck to hear but at least you had the courage to speak on it.

[Asker]

What would I say to her? Maybe the easiest way is to just attempt to kiss her? Then she’ll turn away if it’s unwanted. And that would be my answer.

[Opinion Owner]

Definitely do not just lean in for a kiss. Honestly, don’t. If she’s still in the same place of only wanting friendship, then not only would that be offensive (also because you didn’t ask for permission), you’d likely not hear from her again. The better route to take, even through text if you aren’t ready to do it in person, would just be something like: “hey, I just wanted to ask if you’re still only interested in friendship? Because I was hoping to ask you on a date to a concert I think you’d like.” Word it however you want, just be direct.

[Asker]

What about trying to hold her hand?

[Opinion Owner]

You really don’t want to have that talk, huh... but why? What’s stopping you?

[Asker]

Because it’s uncomfortable and awkward and I’m not good at talking. I’m much better with actions. I wouldn’t be able to bring it up in conversation.

[Opinion Owner]

Somethings holding you back, and if it’s a thing to where you’d rather not because you already know the answer, then you’d be right to just not hang out with her. But if you have hope she could have a change of heart, then what’s stopping you?

[Asker]

And from what I’ve heard from people more successful than me conversations like that generally lead nowhere if nothing more than friendship has happened. They say it’s a more effective strategy to just flirt with her and see how it’s received.

[Opinion Owner]

True, it’s not a comfortable conversation to have, but it’s very important to talk about this, rather than make a move. Honestly I don't know how trying to hold her hand or kiss her is easier than that conversation..

[Opinion Owner]

I think with those people that you’ve heard from, it is a. First time conversation. Since you’ve already been told the first time around that she wanted friendship, you’re simply asking if she still feels that way.

[Asker]

Because I’m almost certain she’ll just say she thinks we’re just friends.

[Opinion Owner]

Gotcha 😞 well if you feel positive that she’s still wanting friendship, then you’re right, a conversation would be pointless and unfortunately it would be better to just stop hanging out and stuff. I’m sorry, I’m sure you really like her. Maybe after some time passes you will feel comfortable just being a friend but not right now while you still have feelings, it would just be too hard.

[Asker]

But what I mean is I don’t think it works like that from what I’ve heard. I think literally that spark people always talk about is triggered by effective flirting. Obviously it’s not guaranteed as there may be other factors which aren’t within anyones control but without flirting there’s no testing of the waters. I think if you simply walk up to someone and after a bit of a friendly conversation ask for a date then try and take it further through platonic conversation, it will go nowhere without flirting.

[Asker]

We’ve already booked the concert in July. It will be awkward then.

[Opinion Owner]

I agree, but the thing is, your situation is quite different. You’ve already tried the dating and flirting, but the outcome was her saying she only wanted friendship. So this time around, you shouldn’t go into the situation ready to flirt and make moves going off of the knowledge that she doesn’t want more, because for her, that would be you blatantly disregarding her decision (assuming she still just want friendship). I’m only saying this because I had a guy friend like that, where I told him I didn’t want a relationship, and he’s invite me out to the bar and stuff with me assuming he understands I only want friendship, only for him to make moves, which ultimately ended our friendship because I felt like he wasn’t listening to me on purpose.

[Opinion Owner]

If you’ve already booked the concert, then when you go just be friendly, no moves or flirting. After that then just leave it alone. Especially if you aren’t willing to have that talk with her, you just shouldn’t keep pursuing hoping for romance when all you DO know is that she wants friendship. That’s doing yourself a disservice..

[Asker]

I never flirted with her before though. And also I told her I’m not interested in friendship.

[Asker]

To be honest, I know this sounds terrible but I would rather I try and flirt and risk ending the friendship that way rather than let a slim chance escape that she might reciprocate. Purely because no one wants to date me. And women only ever want to be friends with me. I’m 31 and never kissed or held hands with a woman before.

[Opinion Owner]

Got it. So if there wasn’t any flirting or anything like that prior to her saying she only wanted friendship, then it’s possible she just wasn’t feeling the chemistry. As someone who’s not new to dating, I’ll say that it isn’t always all about the flirting, how it’s often displays in movies, shows, etc. Like with my current boyfriend, I can genuinely say that the first two times I met him, he wasn’t flirty. We just had great conversation, he asked the right questions and was very polite, which I appreciated because some men overdue it with the flirting and that’s a big turn off. He didn’t flirt with me until we were on our first date, it was very natural and fluid. So with your friend, if there was some flirting to happen then be casual about it. However I just don’t think it’s the best idea. You say that you feel certain she only wants friendship, so by “testing the waters” and making moves, you would just be seemingly acting off lust. It comes off as “I’ve never done these things, so even if she doesn’t want me, I’ll have at least experienced it”. You don’t want to do that to her, she should be given the opportunity to choose, which you take away by acting in your own best interest..

[Asker]

But no woman gives me that opportunity ever. I get rejection after rejection after rejection. And women only ever want to be friends with me. I’ve tried improving myself, I’ve tried not caring about dating, I’ve tried paying for a dating coach, I’ve tried literally everything. And nothing works.

[Asker]

Also we went on dates. I just didn’t flirt on those dates. We met on a dating site and I clearly said they were dates.

[Opinion Owner]

I’m assuming you’ve tried paid dating sites? I feel like those have the most potential and I have met several women who’ve had luck. But personally I feel like online dating is the biggest scheme, and wouldn’t personally recommend it. Sorry you haven’t had luck with dating, but honestly it could be timing. My current boyfriend is the only boyfriend I’ve ever had, and I’m 30, I’d even pretty much given up on trying to find someone because I wasn’t having luck. I only say this to tell you not to lose any hope — you’ll meet the right person even if it isn’t meant to be right now. As for with your friend, I do understand that you went on dates, what I’m mostly referring to is what’s happened since that whole rejection. You just don’t want to keep inviting her to these outings with the intention of them being dates, without confirming that it is one. Things like this will just instill false hope in you, and the last thing you want is to be thinking that you’re making some traction and she’s gaining interest, when in her mind it could easily be her just hanging out with a friend and it’s nice to have that company.

[Asker]

I bet you had many dates though. I very rarely get dates (1 a year if I’m lucky). Including on paid sites. In total I’ve spent over $1200 on dating site subscriptions, paying photographers to take good photos, paying dating coaches etc. Also spent money on better clothes and hairstyle etc. still I don’t get dates and women just want to be friends with me. So my chances of meeting someone is low.

[Opinion Owner]

Oh wow.. how do you think you are like on these dates and just generally chatting? What sort of stuff are you talking about? Do you feel like you’re being too friendly maybe and not showing interest?

[Asker]

Thanks for your help by the way. Sorry if my answers seem rude, it just helps me to talk through it.

Back to the subject, I think I might be ok just being friends with her if I meet her with other people (I. e. in a group context). But I invited her to something I’m going to with a few friends before and she didn’t seem keen.

[Asker]

Yes I probably am being too friendly. I have no idea to how to date, how to flirt. And generally suggestions of flirting when I ask people get met with resistance and I get told it’s harassment.

[Opinion Owner]

No worries, I haven’t gotten the impression that you’re rude at all, I’m sure you’re frustrated with how things on the dating scene have been going. I think that route of just hanging out with her when there’s other friends involved would be best, at least while you’re getting over it. It’s just hard to be a good friend when deep down your wanting more.

[Opinion Owner]

Hmm, what do you perceive as flirting that others think is harassment? That’s a pretty big accusation..

[Asker]

Well just like being playful and being touchy (not inappropriately) and maybe trying to hold hands or kiss (again not forcing it - just testing the waters). But I’ve never tried any of this anyway. I just talk to all women like they’re friends.

[Asker]

She says no when I ask her if she wants to hang out as a group though.

[Opinion Owner]

Okay, your idea of flirting is definitely not wrong, so that’s not an issue. Other things could lend a hand though, because if you keep getting friendzoned and/or rejected, it’s safe to assume you’re doing something (or things) that you may not notice are unappealing, but to these women it is. For instance, if you have low self esteem then you should find methods of building up your confidence, whether it’s daily positive affirmations, working out to get in shape, good hygiene (definitely not saying you smell) such as a skincare routine if yours isn’t so great and a nice cologne. A confident, self-assured guy is always a good look to women, and you’ll generally feel better too. Also, not to get too personal, but with these sorts of issues in your age range, could it possibly be any mental disorders? Like depression, anxiety, past trauma, etc. If so, maybe it’s something you should get help for if you haven’t already. Because if certain issues are working in tandem during your dates, it shows on the outside because you could be awkward, come off as shy and just seem uninterested.

[Opinion Owner]

Hmm, if these friends are not her friends then she could either just be disinterested in meeting them, or don’t want to give them the impression that there’s more happening between you two than there is. Like usually when a man is inviting a woman around his friends, they all assume there’s something happening behind the scenes. Even if you’re clear with them that you two are just friends, they will still wonder where she stands.

[Asker]

I don’t flirt though. I know what it is but I can’t do it. And I think that is my issue. I’m terrible at it and have no game. And I didn't score well in this quiz which tells you what women find attractive in men. Have a go at it yourself when you get a chance. https://highstatushabits.com/quiz/4/index.php