Why are some men so much more fixated on women’s dating standards than they are of their own?

[MzAsh]

[ShadezMcgee]

Because a lot of women's dating standards, much like a fair amount of men's is unrealistic or wild. To include double standards.

When women give their standards, they call it and in turn are called high value, queens, selective, "the table" and it honestly comes across as arrogant and holier than thou with how some of them phrase it. They get just as nasty when men challenge some of it or disagree and they get labeled as misogynistic and unworthy.

Men look at this in an already polluted market of women that look at them as lesser if they don't look a certain way, don't earn a certain amount, don't want to date a "girl boss", or are Superman at the end of the day. It is never enough. A lot of women view it as a game and selection for the man who will jump whenever she says.

Now when men list their standards, they are labeled sexist, misogynistic, incels, or any other word as a retaliatory slander for when they say what they want, regardless if it is reasonable. See it all the time on here.

Man: I want a woman who wants to raise a family with me. I want her to be in shape both physically and mentally. I want her to have her level of independence and interests of her own. I want her to listen to me, trust me and follow my lead, not challenge every thing I do or believe is right or should be done.

Simple responses like that get no shortage of deranged harpies calling them those labels I listed above. Wanting a family and a wife that follows their lead is like setting fire to gasoline with a lot of them, and the only ones who understand this is men. Very few women stand up for or support men on this site on these issues and it looks like a dying breed of rare women in general. Most of us aren't asking for a slave or blind obedience from women. We want peace and no bullshit drama and if a woman can give us that, we would take it in a heartbeat.

These reaffirming echo chambers from a lot of modern women these days they see as a threat to what they truly want at the end of the day which is what I listed in the previous paragraph and when they try to voice this, we get posts like this one here.

[MzAsh]

You’re not totally wrong. There are women out here with delusional standards, just like there are men who think being a decent human earns them a 19 year old lingerie model with zero baggage. That’s not news. And yeah, some women have built their whole identity around being “the table” and throw around words like misogyny to shut down any disagreement. That’s also real.

There’s a difference between wanting a peaceful, supportive partner and wanting blind obedience. And though most men don’t want a slave, I can tell you from firsthand experience there’s a disturbing number who absolutely do. I get told on a regular basis to shut up, stay in my place, and stop thinking I have the right to speak on anything unless a man approves. That’s not a rare occurrence. It’s not most, but it’s way more than it should be.

Plenty of us women do value loyalty, respect, cooperation, emotional support, and a man who’ll clean the damn kitchen without being begged, just as we do. But the second women like me say that out loud, we get told we want a “beta male” or we’re trying to emasculate men.

If men want women to “follow their lead,” they need to actually be worth following. A lot of guys want submission from women who outrank them in maturity, communication skills, and emotional intelligence. That’s the disconnect, asking for more than you bring, then getting bitter when women aren’t buying it.

[ShadezMcgee]

Not totally wrong? Regardless, what is the age demographic of men who are telling you to shut up, get back in line, stop speaking and all of that?

Now to comment on your remark about many women wanting cooperation, loyalty, respect, emotional support and cleaning the damn kitchen without being begged like you guys are. The reason why it becomes talks of you guys wanting beta males and to emasculated men is because women are telling men to become the exact opposite of who they are at their biological and instinctual core. And more often than not, when men become exactly that at the request of their girlfriends and wives, they become a shell of the man who attracted them in the first place. Their personality and mannerisms change to reflect what their woman wants and then it becomes a surprise to them when their wife or girlfriend aren't as attracted to them anymore or even go so far as to break up and divorce. This is why men say their friends get whipped, become pushovers or become betas because they did it to appease their wives and all it got them was disrespect and taken advantage of before it collapsed.

And you have said men need to be like the men you described to get a chance with a woman of high quality and while I believe men need those traits as well, there is a limit to it. Men need to have an edge to command respect from others and women, otherwise women will see them as weak or a harmless sheep that they will test to see if he has his balls.

[ShadezMcgee]

(Cont.)

"If men want women to follow their lead, they need to actually be worth following." While I do agree men need to be worth following, here is where it starts to split. Women are not the same, so there is no consensus on what makes a man worth following as it is different for each woman.

"A lot of guys want submission from women who outrank them in maturity, communication skills and emotional intelligence" and this is where I say your use of language makes you get a lot of hostile responses, Ash. Just reading that alone rubbed me the wrong way as it came off as arrogant. Outrank. Aren't you one who has said things should be equal, much less hates power dynamics? Then why use it here? It is a matter of perception.

[MzAsh]

Fair questions. The men telling me to shut up and know my place are from every age group. It’s the 19-year-old parroting talking points from the latest “trust me, bro” podcast. It’s the 35-year-old bitter divorcé who thinks he’s cracked the code on where his marriage went wrong, when really, he’s still clueless. It’s the conservative 45-year-old clinging to religious “values” that somehow always place him on top. And it’s even the boomer who refuses to accept any way but his own. It’s a whole spectrum of men who can’t handle a woman who doesn’t play small.

I don’t want to change a man or strip away his masculinity. I just want him to be an adult who matches my energy. That’s it. A man can still be strong and soft. He can be masculine while doing the dishes. He can learn to communicate like a grown up, have emotional intelligence, and still hold his ground like a man. And if he thinks any of that makes him less of one, he’s got no business being in a relationship to begin with.

I said outrank because some women do have more maturity, communication skills, and emotional range than the men trying to lead them. Leadership without competence is just control. If a man wants to lead, he better know where he’s going and be someone worth following. Respect isn’t automatic just because you’ve got a Y chromosome.

You’re right that different women want different things, but the basic fundamentals are self awareness, loyalty, and someone who can bring something real to the table. We’re not asking men to neuter themselves, we’re asking them to grow up and be life partners, not just someone who provides the paycheck or fixes the car.

Men can’t expect obedience in exchange for the bare minimum. Women like me already bring a lot. Loyalty, support, softness when it’s needed. I stay in shape, I hustle, I pay for dinner, I’ve even paid a man’s bills when he was showing up at home. I’m not asking for a superhero. I’m asking for someone who knows how to match effort.

[ShadezMcgee]

So essentially the guys who respond any way similar to red pill, some male dating coaches or even extremes of Andrew Tate, got it.

You may not want to emasculated or strip away their masculinity as you say, but tell me, what exactly is "your" energy? Because from what I have seen and what you have said in discussions and posts past, you admitted to being way more in your masculine and that usually means one of two things will happen for women that are like you. Either they have a man that is more masculine than them that brings out their feminine side or they find a guy who is more feminine than them to bring the balance. We need to get away from calling simple adulting tasks as either feminine or masculine.

There are men that do just that, and there are a lot of women who take advantage of it or view them as weak because of it. Even if the man is a solid communicator, has emotional intelligence and holds his ground, he will run into a fair amount of shitbag women and his only saving grace is that he hopefully sees their red flags early instead of later if he gets into a relationship with her.

Leadership without competence is shit leadership, it isn't control at all. Car without a driver. And we got right back to this. Whatever makes a man worth following is dependent on each woma, there is no consensus. Just like women getting respect isn't automatic either. She needs to earn it and be worthy of it for a man to want to invest any time with her at all.

[ShadezMcgee]

(Cont)

"You’re right that different women want different things, but the basic fundamentals are self awareness, loyalty, and someone who can bring something real to the table."

Yeah, and men like me bring loyalty and self awareness to our relationships. Something real? What else is needed, because I will touch more on the concept of "the table" in the next part of my comment here.

"Men can’t expect obedience in exchange for the bare minimum. Women like me already bring a lot. Loyalty, support, softness when it’s needed. I stay in shape, I hustle, I pay for dinner, I’ve even paid a man’s bills when he was showing up at home. I’m not asking for a superhero. I’m asking for someone who knows how to match effort."

Bare minimum? Again, what you listed here guys like me bring as well. Loyalty? We bring it? Support? We bring it. Softness when needed and we listen to your issues and want to be heard? We do it. Stay in shape? A lot of us are in the gym 4-5 times a week. We hustle doing sometimes multiple jobs, pay for dinner, and pay bills too. We need to do more shit at home too? We do it too. So really, if this is what is expected of guys like us to bring to the table and we already do it, what else is needed for any of you women to be satisfied? Seriously. The way I see it, if we both do the same thing, what is the issue? It will just be a matter of "what do I do that he doesn't?" at the end of the day and that becomes the new problem that he doesn't bring to the table.

It is never enough. Guys always have to be doing everything just to maintain love and respect from their women amd at the end of the day, it never seems like it is enough.

[MzAsh]

I’d say now that I’m “a bit” more in my masculine than most women. I’d more logical than emotional. I think strategically. I’m ambitious and not especially drawn to the traditional roles a lot of women lean into. But I do know when to be soft. I can be nurturing. I do take care of people I love. Hell, historically, I’ve overextended myself mentally, emotionally, and even financially, until it nearly broke me. I’ve learned to pull back, protect my peace, and stop playing savior. That doesn’t mean I’ve lost my ability to love or support, it means I finally learned to give a damn about my own well being too.

And yes, my husband is more masculine than me, but by red pill standards? He’d be labeled soft. And I couldn’t care less. He pulls his weight. He shows up when it matters. He’s not always dominant or loud or stoic. But when something needs to be done, he does it, even when he doesn’t feel like it. That’s what grown adults do.

Now, I get that there are good men out there. Men who work hard, stay loyal, show up emotionally, hustle, stay in shape, pay the bills, and help out at home. I’ve met them. I respect the hell out of them. And I believe they deserve love, loyalty, and recognition. But that doesn’t mean every woman they pursue is going to reciprocate. That’s not how life works. In work, you can be qualified for the job and still not get it. Same goes for relationships.

And I think that’s part of what’s not clicking for a lot of men. They do the “right things” and expect that to guarantee them a return. But relationships aren’t vending machines. And chemistry, compatibility, timing, all of that matters too. You’re not entitled to a woman’s love just because you did your part. Just like women aren’t guaranteed a man’s commitment because they were loyal and nurturing. That’s just how life goes.

[MzAsh]

Continued 2/3.
Meanwhile, I see an overwhelming number of women, clients, friends, strangers online, all saying the same thing “Where are the men who put in real effort?” I’m not talking about just paying for a date. I’m talking about courtship. Emotional effort. Active listening. Communication. Consistency. A lot of men don’t want to do those things, or they think showing too much interest makes them look weak. So they back off, play it cool, stay guarded, and then wonder why nothing sticks.

And then there are guys chasing “youth and beauty” like that’s the golden ticket. If you want a young, hot chick, fine, but don’t act shocked when she behaves like a young, hot chick. She’s not going to carry emotional weight. She’s going to do her, just like you did in your 20s. A man can’t expect her to show up with wifely maturity and devotion when he clearly picked her based on aesthetics, not values. That’s on him. And let’s not forget, those same guys often bring nothing to the table beyond some money, a gym body, and an ego. That’s not enough.

Having a car, a job, and being in shape doesn’t make a man high value. If you’re emotionally immature, have zero self awareness, and can’t sustain a real relationship beyond surface level attraction—, you’re not high value. You’re just loud. And the results speak for themselves. I see too many men who think they’re the prize, but they don’t have the substance to back it up.

So yeah, men like you who do have their shit together, who show up, who listen, who lead with integrity, you’re the ones I want to see win. And you will, if you stay sharp and choose wisely. But if you (or anyone) think that just because you’re doing everything right, you’re guaranteed the outcome you want… then you’re setting yourself up for resentment.

[MzAsh]

Continued 3/3

Relationships are about timing, self awareness, and aligned values. They take more than just boxes checked. They take emotional work, mutual investment, and the ability to see past your own reflection long enough to truly understand the person in front of you. And that is where a lot of people, men and women, miss the mark.

[SolitarySolace]

Some men fixate on women’s dating standards because they feel the expectations are unrealistic or one-sided. Instead of focusing on self-improvement or finding someone compatible, they get caught up in frustration over what they perceive as double standards. That said, both men and women have the right to their preferences—but expecting more than what you offer in return is where things get messy. At the end of the day, if your standards are high, you should be prepared to meet the same level of effort and value in return.

- Eva ❤️

[Shiprex]

Hypergamy.

Men don't care about the cosmetic and superficial things especially and the whole achievements are irrelevant BUT women have them and it's off putting.

To be successful with women men HAVE to achieve something, women can just turn up. That double standard is why it's a raw deal for men. A man would date the girl at McDonalds after her work shift and be content. Women would expect special treatment before even stepping out the door.

[MzAsh]

Most men can’t afford to support a woman who works at McDonald’s. You might not think it matters, until you realize she’s costing you thousands every month.

[Shiprex]

If she's COSTING anything then she's a burden. She's not for me. Pay her way or see them later

[MzAsh]

If she’s working at Mickey Ds then she will absolutely start costing you. Why don’t men think about that when they claim they don’t care about her education or career?

[Shiprex]

Why would she cost him money? Is HE expected to pay for her home or THEIR home? HER children or theirs? When committing, men will SHARE their prosperity with the person they are with. This is less common for women to do such a thing especially when the woman earns more.

[MzAsh]

Let’s just be honest, women can be expensive. Not because we’re all out here chasing luxury, but because basic upkeep ain’t cheap. Hair, nails, skincare, makeup, clothes that actually fit and flatter, waxing, gym memberships, therapy, eating clean, it adds up. Already we’re talking thousands a month right there.

So when a woman doesn’t have her own income, or she’s only bringing in 1200 a month, yeah, some of that cost is coming your way, that’s just reality.

What cracks me up is when guys say they “don’t care” about a woman’s career or earning power but then act shocked when she ends up being a financial responsibility. You can’t say you don’t care how she supports herself and complain when you’re the one who ends up footing the bill. Pick a lane.

[Shiprex]

You want hair nails, skincare, makeup, and all the other stuff like waxing, etc., then you get a job that can support THAT lifestyle. A man is not here to do that and most men dgaf about it as well. The clothes, gym and food though THAT is worthy it and if she wants all the other stuff that's lower on the list of "Must haves". If a guy is supposed to paid for things that "she feels she needs" then SHE can do it herself. Otherwise she doesn't get to be the queen at home but is expected to be the WIFE and lover not the stay at home doll.

[MzAsh]

Totally agree. If a woman wants upkeep, she should pay for them. But a lot of men say they don’t care about her job or income, but they’re not thinking about things I just mentioned. It does matter.

If you care about not funding her lifestyle, cool, just say that upfront and admit she’s going to have to be ambitious and career oriented if she wants all that.

[Shiprex]

@MzAsh
As long as she's aware it's not a free ride for her to be a princess and entitled brat then if that's HER choice she can do that with her own money. It won't ever be an "allowance" lifestyle where she gets handouts like a child either. Her choice to live that way, her responsibility to pay for it. You don't need a career to do that though. AND it needs to be known that most men dgaf about a lot of that stuff so perhaps she needs to reconsider her "hobbies"

[Stevepro68]

I think I understand your question but it's worded oddly. I think my best answer is this. Women express their standards so others are aware of them. Men don't.

[NathanDavis]

only the inadequate do ever have to worry about standards...

[backdoorman]

Good question. I, too, have often wondered why women don't have higher dating standards.

[Staximus]

Because we are not dating ourselves?