Why do so many men say they like women to be "all natural" and then go around and call those who have pit hair nasty?

[cherryphi82]

Body hair is natural on women. Why is that suddenly a deal breaker when before, y'all were saying how much you love women with little to no make-up, no fake hair and no enhanced body parts? How is a woman's body hair nastier than a man's? If anything *that* is completely natural.

Updates

+1 y

What I don't see is why is it gross when a women has body hair but not when a man has it. There seems to be quite the level of hypocrisy at work.

Updates

+1 y

This question is making me decide to stop shaving. The better to weed out the men with.

[Anonymous]

It's not hypocritical because we're not gay or bisexual men who are also attracted to men. Women's body hair isn't any less attractive than men's body hair. But we're not the slightest bit aroused by men's body hair- it's gross, because we're not gay or bi. And we don't find your body hair arousing either. Because the growth of body hair indicates high testosterone levels.

Which is also why more women these days naturally have thicker body hair than they historically have at any point in the past- today's women have more testosterone than ever before. And that's simply not sexy and never will be sexy, because these high levels of testosterone result in severely diminished fertility, and sex appeal for heterosexuals is dictated primarily by reproductive potential.

You can see from looking at historical paintings and nude photos; they didn't shave their body hair back then, but they didn't need to, because back then, women had very little body hair compared to the women of today. Back then, for most of human history, women having little to no body hair WAS perfectly natural. It's only become an "unrealistic expectation" today because today's women have abandoned femininity for masculinity; and in doing so, their hormonal balance has shifted to reflect this. Hence, more female body hair, and the need to shave in order to pretend that you still possess the same levels of feminine appeal that the women of yesteryear once naturally possessed.

Just like the fake hair, all that make-up, and all those enhanced body parts. Sure, plenty of men fall for it. But increasingly, it isn't working any more, is it? Because that gap's too great to bridge subtly any more, and it isn't the real thing. And what we really want is the real thing, even though the 'real thing'- women who naturally looked the way we're programmed to instinctively find most sexually attractive- is effectively extinct. But hey, you wanted to be manly, right?

[cherryphi82]

Lmao...

[Nfscarbon07]

I agree with what you're saying, when guys say natural we don't really mean natural, I don't I don't mind leg hair, some arm hair or even pubic hair, but I think chest hair, armpit hair and facial hair (peach fuzz isn't really "hair" to me) are kind of where most people would draw the line, I know with absolute certainty there are a lot of men who do like hair all over on a woman and truly does appreciate the natural look, but I think for the majority, the natural look has to do with makeup and some hair on the legs and such

[cherryphi82]

In that case "natural" is a buzz word that has taken on a whole new meaning. What it really means is effortlessness. Looking effortlessly good takes a lot of work, and anyone who acts like women can just go out and look good without putting in much study, care, and practice is denying that effort, which is what I'm against.

[Nfscarbon07]

That's one thing I always commended women on was the amount of time and care they take to look good, where men only have to dress nice and put on cologne basically, I think it's only been since the early 1900s that women were expected to shave, and I know women don't grow hair like men do, so it's not like you're looking like a sasquatch, but yes a lot of men are definitely turned off by hair, I mean I know for me I really don't give a shit what people think of me, so if I had a woman who wanted to go out looking truly natural and it didn't bother her, who am I to judge

[cherryphi82]

Right...

[Ginfiend]

Actually, it was a class thing in ancient Rome, a myth of cleanliness in ancient egypt and a wedding night ritual for many eastern women. Classical paintings and sculptures weren't sans pubes because they couldnt be arsed to paint it. Check out volsellas- nasty tweezers women were expected to use as soon as they hit puberty. #factsfactsfacts

[Nfscarbon07]

Well you learn new stuff every day, that's pretty cool, I know somewhere not in the americas, there are cultures that use unibrows to attract men

[Ginfiend]

Twerking was originally a cultural hen party type thing too in prep for the wedding night. I find origins pretty interesting

[Ginfiend]

Chaps don't seem to understand how much time the majority of women put into "the natural look", I dye my eyebrows because they are totally invisible, but I get so bored of seeing people post images with microbladed eyebrows, tattooed eyeliner, dyed eyelashes or commonly single lash extensions and telling everyone they aren't wearing make up, nevermind the ones where they wear full makeup and say there's none.
Whatever, wear what you like- but be honest about it- it's creating false expectations.

And for those saying women with pit hair are unhygienic, armpit hair actually has evolved to be there to wick away sweat from the skin, so armpit hair helps prevent smells, not create it, so technically theyre better off than those of us who shave it off.

[cherryphi82]

You are 100% correct!

[Ginfiend]

Cherryphi, I can tell you get it, I just wish people would genuinely stop, and think, and realise! :')

[Ginfiend]

@cherryphi82 also just laughed a bit too much at your update! :')

[cherryphi82]

Lol ;)

[MlleCake]

I love all these people claiming it's bad hygiene, as if cutting tiny slits in your skin and inviting small staph infections is GOOD hygiene. The hair is actually the body's way of wicking away moisture, and keeping bad bacteria from growing on the skin.

Don't get me wrong, people are entitled to their preferences. As things go, it doesn't seem to hurt our species to shave armpits as much as we do.

But if you're claiming that shaving armpits is more hygienic, you're the opposite of right.

[cherryphi82]

As always, I can count on you to speak the truth & instruct! Thank you!

[Bonitaermosa]

Man... i think say it as in general, they dont want the hassel of ruining girls's make up by touching my sweet little face as i work hard for it... so the rest its a preference on the male... some male couldnt careless on body hair some do... some like more haevy set of woman some prefere skinny or not so but thats what i know of the male side. I care of my apperances but thats me only. I like to be seen as sophisticated but fun and not to to seriously looking over life. My own opinion.

[Anonymous]

I personally shave my underarms because I don't like the prickliness and the dark appearance. But yeah I do feel there is a double standard when it comes to that. I don't know why it's "nasty" for women to have hair but not men.

[ThreeSevensSalvo]

Because men are visually stimulated. Women are too but to a much lower extent. When men say -natural- they mean make-up and generally see (despite the error) shaving to be part of women's hygiene. Less hair being more attractive is likely evolutionary distinction making us more attracted to each other than common apes and the extent it has gone is likely a combination of female competition with one another and male expectation driven through porn exposure. Most men believe that not wearing make-up helps show your beauty because, beauty=/=hot.

[cherryphi82]

What a bunch of bullshit...

[ThreeSevensSalvo]

That was oddly aggressive for no reason at all.

[cherryphi82]

That's because your babbling makes no sense. Visually stimulated? All the early cavemen would have fucking died out if this were the case.

[dominatedude]

Aaand I trim my body hair... because it is ment to harbour bacteria and sents to communicate everything, from your health to what cycle your body is in.(thats a male thing too, just with overreacting behaviour, not, you know, bleeding) and it gets groady. Plus, I think men that like shaved body hair are more likely to be men that like foreplay. Body hair getting between teeth can ruin the mood. So, here's an opinion from a non hypocrite, poop is natural too and filled with the same bacteria as body hair, do you keep it around? 0-o

[cherryphi82]

www.theguardian.com/.../should-groom-pubic-hair-shaving-trimming
steptohealth.com/bad-shave-remove-pubic-hair/

[loveslongnails]

Umm... wouldn't it be wiser to just do what you want to do, either way, instead of basing your "non hypocrite man radar" on body or pit hair? LOL And what if you meet a guy who doesn't like his OWN body hair and says "I like a girl who doesn't wear a lot of make-up AND has a totally smooth, shaven body... like mine !" I understand your point... if a guy says he love "ALL NATURAL", you expect it to mean exactly that. But I believe all men don't mean that... there's a caveat or two, isn't there? :)

[Cammy137]

I think there's a middle ground. To me, all natural would mean no plastic surgery, no make-up, no fake eyelashes or hair extensions. All things id rather avoid anyway... but we've been raised in a world where the women of Hollywood and porn are hairless and as such, that's what we're attracted to. Whenever you see a woman in the media with bushy pits, they're usually lacking in the hygiene department. This may very well be an unfair stereotype but its one that many view as being accurate.

[cherryphi82]

Then men are by definition unhygienic...

[Cammy137]

Im not sure you understand my point. Most men have hair, regardless of hygiene level. In fact many men you see through varying forms of media are hairy but also hygenic. My point is that women presented by the media (whether it be news, protest videos, porn, movies, etc) often appear to lack hygiene and further push the sterotype that hairy women are also unhygienic.
Im not its the hair itself not am I saying that hair = lack of hygiene. Im saying that a stereotype exists for women regarding hair that doesn't exist for men.
Here an example of the reverse: Men are attracted to smooth where as very few women would go for guys who are completely shaved or waxed. These men are often seen as being gay. Now there's no reason to suspect they are but certainly such a train of though exists within our society.

[cherryphi82]

Then I suggest you let go of that stereotype...

[Cammy137]

Im not saying I have that stereotype. Im sharing an opinion as to why many men do. My girlfriend is mostly natural. Jesus Christ, you really have a chip on your shoulder about this topic don't you? There isn't much point in asking a question if you're going to get stroppy with anyone who tries to answer it.

[Cammy137]

There are plenty of double standards on both sides. That's just life Im afraid!

[cherryphi82]

I'm just debating about something I find interesting. No need for personal attacks.

[Cammy137]

Im not personally attacking you at all. You're the one telling me to let go of stereotypes I don't even have when all I was trying to do was explain to you why this is the case.

[cherryphi82]

Hmm... but you said "Whenever you see a woman in the media with bushy pits, they're usually lacking in the hygiene department." You did follow up with saying with saying that it is probably an unfair stereotype, but you stated it as truth first. So that has me confused.

[R3d_Klone]

I think some guys who say that they want women all natural are trying to not sound superficial or that they have expectations for how a woman grooms herself. This can be a lure for women to think they are sensitive to her plight as a woman or to convince themselves they aren't superficial.
Guys who double back may just be using whatever excuse they have for cutting off the relationship. ie: how the girl maintains her body.

[Anonymous]

It's been a cultural norm for decades, at least, that women shave their legs and under their arms. That has been ingrained in what we think of women, is what we consider a good looking woman. For myself, I am part of that cultural norm, and I want my woman to shave under her arms, and shave her legs. I don't ever ask her to do that, she just does it, because that is how she wants it. I do prefer her to keep her pussy bush, as it's just right, even without trimming.

[cherryphi82]

And cultural norms need to be questioned from time to time...

[Opinion Owner]

No problem with questioning cultural norms, and no problem sticking with the good ones. Of course, many times, a good decision is simply doing what we think we like, just because we've done it that way in the past.

[findingdreamland-1]

Hypocrisy. Like They say they want natural looking women but when we do not make up, ok here is the ugly girl. I literally do not understand men.

[fueledbythc]

Not many men know what all natural is. Yes women have body hair, can give off body odor and be "gross". Women are humans too and tbh i like the smell of body odor from women. Its a sweet smell.

[zecky]

Hahaha I don't see that as a problem I don't really care I don't do that myself so why would she right of course if you keep your daily hygiene routine I don't see any problem there natural is always the answer the best for me at least.

[winterfox10]

I think it just catches us by surprise, since so many women wax and shave all their body hair. We don't think about it.

[Philyouup]

when they say all natural, they mean titties and lips and butt cheeks and permanent eyeliner, and such.. growing "Pit and lap Fro's" isn't part of that thought process.

[cherryphi82]

Yeah, I get that. I'm asking why there's that difference.

[dothejohnwall97]

Read my response

[Philyouup]

Americans and the English started the tradition years ago, making it seem dirty and unhygienic for woman not to shave her pits and legs... and it just stuck, and now porn has them shaving their cooters and asses, As well as bleaching their holes, so I don't see society reversing it self to soon.

[cherryphi82]

@dothejohnwall97 Your response offers absolutely nothing of merit. MlleCake rips you a new one with all that information, whereas you can't provide shit. Go play in the sandpile.

[dothejohnwall97]

Ok sir

[My-Shangri-La]

I think when people say natural, they’re talking more about the plastic surgery, fake looking nose and plump lips

[My-Shangri-La]

Wow. Women want to be equal to men so badly that they’ll ever grow armpit hair. Women are like the younger sibling who doesn’t get to do what her older brother does so she’s like “but mommmmmyyyyyy, what does he get to do it?”

Women will also naturally smell like shit if they don’t shower so should we not shower? I mean come on now. I see in your profile picture that you have wonderfully shaped eyebrows (not even being sarcastic by the way), but a unibrow is natural if you don’t pluck, why don’t you have one? See what I mean here?

[cherryphi82]

Lmao... nice try. I don't pluck my eyebrows! And as far as your argument goes... it has nothing to do with women wanting to be like men. Shaving is a recent phenomenon. All you do is show that you think women are lesser and need to be held to certain standards that men are exempt from. The question I want you to answer is why do you think men are exempt from it.

[My-Shangri-La]

Ok so s unibrow isn’t natural for you which just means that natural is different for everyone. And I never hide how I feel about women. Go around this website and look at my answers. I clearly state that I know women are lesser than men.

[cherryphi82]

If a woman said that about men she'd be called all kinds of names...

[My-Shangri-La]

Yeah she would because it would be foolish given that men have done almost everything. They’ve industrialized nations, 95% of all inventions are by men, men have made advancements in math, science and medicine, and men fought the important wars that gave us and maintained our freedom.

[cherryphi82]

You're the kind of person who should have been aborted...

[Ginfiend]

You do realise that 95% statistic is utter BS, right?

[stuntbrain]

Body odor is natural too, but I don't want any girl who smells like a Guatemalan homeless shelter.

[cherryphi82]

That's right because Americans don't have body odor. Lmao...

[dothejohnwall97]

😂😂🤮

[stuntbrain]

@cherryphi82 you're right, homeless people in America smell disgusting too, I stand corrected

[Babsie1984]

What men mean is they want a natural fake beauty! A girl that doesn’t look like a barbie doll

[seenivasan]

You are right?

[Babsie1984]

I also agree about the hypocrisy with body hair on women vs men. However it’s how society has groomed us to think. I personally prefer to be hair free but that’s my choice, I wouldn’t expect anyone to do it just to conform to society though

[cherryphi82]

You can do whatever you want but... you just admitted that it was social pressure, then how can it be your choice?

[seenivasan]

If your wish not choice

[Babsie1984]

Because I genuinely prefer it! I like the hairless look for a woman so that’s my preference

[seenivasan]

Sure! Agreed

[cherryphi82]

But if society says you should prefer it, don't think you are influenced by that somewhat?

[Babsie1984]

Of course we are all influenced by things.. however I also march to the best of my own drum and I don’t conform with things just because they’re trendy etc. I do what I want to do and I decide on the hairless route. If hair comes back in fashion, I wouldn’t follow that trend

[seenivasan]

Haha

[cherryphi82]

Lmao, yeah right

[Babsie1984]

Mmmm not the most polite to ask a question and then laugh at the responses you get!

[cherryphi82]

Fuck you! Who are you to police me? Get the fuck off this thread if you don't like it, bitch.

[seenivasan]

Be cool

[Babsie1984]

Classy!

[M0NG00SE]

Body hair is nasty. I shave my pits and trim my bits. Every once in a while I have my back shaved for me. I keep my beard trim and soft by brushing it and conditioning it (not $ store crap) hope this was helpful.

[coolboringwhiteguy]

From a lot younger persons perspective it's just cuz it's weird to us and it kinda shows that the gurl dosen t care for herself

[cherryphi82]

I really don't give a flying fuck how old you are. Your argument is moot because by that reasoning, men would have to do the same thing to show women *they* take care of themselves. Not many do. Double standard.

[coolboringwhiteguy]

Damn relax 😂😂 clearly about you and now your just triggered I'm just pointing out from another generation 😂 really got mad there maybe your problem with men isn't about ur body hair but your attitude

[D_Bone_Steak]

Hair, if I'm expected to remove it from two places, then it's only fair if they do too.

[Philyouup]

what hair does society expect you to remove?

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Philyouup Pubes, face pubes... who's supposed to get a haircut? I don't comply because my face pubes are in vogue here, but society has the gendered expectations placed on men as well.

It shouldn't bother anyone if they have freedom to do what they want (unless they're sensitive), but let's face it, they'll whine about it if they comply, and they'll whine about everyone not liking it if they don't. Who's 'they' you may ask? crybabies. Of course there's plenty of other words for them.

[Philyouup]

I dont ever recall a time where men were expected not to wear a bear.. and as for pubs, i dont think the pressure is there , except for woman, and I think that is 99% their own doing, not somebody or society pressuring them..

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Philyouup Certain jobs require a clean shave, it just depends where you're at and what you do if the pressure is or isn't there. As for pubes, depends on where you're at, what's trending, and if you want to comply. Same for haircuts. And the same applies to a female wanting armpit hair and thinking she should waste time being offended that not everyone in her world setting may approve of it.

[Philyouup]

i just shave it all off. except for my goatee LOL

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Philyouup Right on, I've been going first season of 'Vikings' Ragnar style, and full on pornstar style below the waste. Nobodies been complaining yet.

[Philyouup]

None here either.. Right on brotha !

[hello_kitty_man]

When I have said "all natural" if a girl wants not to shave or trim things, that is their own porogative. I don't mind it.

[dothejohnwall97]

Because women with grown out put hair is not having hygiene, that’s like saying “I’m natural, I don’t use soap when I shower so y’all can smell my natural sweat and natural body odour” smh

[dothejohnwall97]

Grown out pit hair *

[MlleCake]

There is nothing unhygienic about armpit hair. Making tiny cuts in your skin in an area prone to bacterial growth in unhygienic, but luckily not so much so that women get bad staph infections from shaving... very often.

I prefer to shave for many reasons, but if you are going to make the hygiene claim, it's more hygienic to have the hair than not have it. This is ever more true when we're speaking of pubic hair.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake yes, scientifically. But I just don’t like armpit hair on women, it looks gross

[cherryphi82]

@dothejonwall97 Then why not just say you don't like it instead of making the false correlation between body hair and poor hygiene?

[dothejohnwall97]

It is bad hygiene to not trim body hair though

[dothejohnwall97]

I don’t know where @MlleCake gets her references, but this site stated the following

“Underarm Hair And Hygiene. The odor from sweat is caused by bacteria and the bacteria can multiply in the damp area of armpit hair – shaving the armpits results in less space for bacteria to breed. And increased effectiveness from your deodorant products.”

[MlleCake]

Yes, that is indeed the common but erroneous belief that many people have. But that assumes it is better for the armpit skin to be sweaty and slimy than it is for the loft of the body hair, where more air can penetrate to be sweaty. The sweat, wetness and propensity for bacterial growth is going to be there whether a person shaves or not. The hair can either carry the bacteria and wetness away from the skin where more air can get to it, or it can just sit on the skin, maybe to be soaked up by clothing. I man, the difference is not immense. But shaving one's armpits often results in irritated skin and razor bumps, which are often tiny staph infections, or other similar bacteria. Shaved armpits often get ingrown hairs, and almost every woman has a story of getting some really painful bump under there. That's what the hair protects the skin from.

Now, most of us have access to regular bathing with clean, hot, water and soap, so it's not like it's a life or death thing to shave.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake it’s gross keeping it man , i don’t want to date a hairy mammoth

[MlleCake]

But PUHLEEEEEZE if you're going to trot out the hygiene card, know what you're talking about. The hair serves a purpose that is better for health.

I shave mine anyway because I prefer it.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake right

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake sure ya do

[MlleCake]

Look, I'm not saying you can't just prefer it because you prefer it. It's not like it's that big a deal for women to do it. I do it.

I'm just telling you that you have some of your facts about hygiene wrong. It's not as important about armpit hair as it is about pubic hair, but look the facts is what they is.

You have a sense that the hair is unhygienic, gross, stinky because that's what you have been taught your whole life. I get that. It just really isn't true.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake ok, but can you add some references here? Because what you are saying right now is not “facts” until you validate your findings with scientific data. Until then I rest my case

[MlleCake]

Hon, you're the one that made the affirmative claim that it was unhygienic in the first place. You go back YOUR claim with science.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake I did above. Go read.
Have a nice day lady

[MlleCake]

You quoted the blurb off an image-conscious gym rat website. Go find some science to back you up.

[dothejohnwall97]

@MlleCake have a nice day lady

[OldSchool_Metalhead]

cherryphi82 you just blew my mind. lol

[cherryphi82]

Lol, well I'm glad...

[GoldenAge]

Shaving is natural, I'm a guy who prefers natural women, there's a difference between natural and unhygenic. I don't like body hair on anyone, myself included.

[cherryphi82]

Shaving is not natural. I'm not against it, I'm just pointing out the contradiction.

[Pistachio0690]

Body hair doesn't bother me, it's natural and i like it

[Freshboi]

Depends on the guy. And when they mean natural they usually refer to body shape or no makeup. It doesn't really bother me that much tbh.

[dolemite68]

I’d rather a girl have a hairy butt than unshaven armpits tho 😂

[cherryphi82]

Nice trade-off

[dolemite68]

Well for me, I don’t like mustache or armpit hair on girls thats it tho. I like trimmed public hair and she can let the hair on her legs, ass and lower back grow out It doesn’t turn me off.

[yeahbaby7783]

I would say that Europeans have no problem with that. Adam and Eve live in United States armpit hair on a woman if not attractive

[the_sinner]

It's just the situation when a man's expecting something sexy and finds something less attractive

Otherwise we all are okay with the natural form of one another

[Dchrls78104]

Stupidity. All natural is all natural. Shaved is shaved. The two can't exist in the same girl.

[Anonymous]

I’m attracted to a high maintenance kind of girl that goes above and beyond to take care of herself, hygiene, grooming, hair, makeup, nails, dresses hot with heels etc actually, so I don’t know?

[thesextking]

Well I like natural and yes hair is god's gift and I love it

[thesextking]

And tbh the hair in our body is for reasons like keeping us cool by sweating. In nose it helps to avoid entrance of dirt and bugs.

[cherryphi82]

You are right.

[thesextking]

Thanks 😊

[Maroon7]

Bitch, it's called personal hygiene. It should be well kept trimmed and shaved. That's why there's men and women.. Damn are you dumb?

[cherryphi82]

Fuck you, cunt. Get off my damn thread. The only one who's dumb here is you.

[Genki]

For my country we do keep pubic hairs.

[cherryphi82]

Good for you!

[ravengirl]

They just think its gross even though technically it is natural. They probably are a bit of a hypocrite but I think it's just that their def of natural is no surgury or not too heavy makeup and stuff.

[nemesis915]

Why do so many women go around saying they want a "Good man" then when they find one shit all over him or go for the first ass hat they meet? Lol

[alyx92]

Because the natural look is the best and thats the real look which we love

[Stevensonsteven]

It depends on person what kind of person he is. If he really loves her girl he will not go around to search another partner.

[BamaDan]

No I need a clean natural woman please have hygiene

[cherryphi82]

Then it's not natural. Body hair is not unclean. Lack of body hair is unnatural.

[Anonymous]

armpit hair is fine I even don't mind vagina hair just don't like leg hair

[howlyz]

Agree

[howlyz]

Hair also looks very nice on girls legs but only if she never shaved it before, not once. Than it looks natural and, honestly, feminine. But if she shaved her legs and later let it grow then her legs look like mans legs because they got thicker and longer so its a turn off. Arm pit hair and hairy pussy is nice and always a nice sight to see.
About the question, it is not logical because obviously the majority of people with go after trends and we know how they are created in the media (man or women will follow, no difference). It's just different cosmetic product industries and stuff, the same as how it is pursued to make

[howlyz]

everything commercial, like the American all holows, black fridays, chrismas in the stores beggins two months earlier and lets not forget, branding of valentines day also as a national holiday (to be comercial and consumeristic)

[jonesjessica812]

Because our standards are too high

[cupidkisses]

Some guys can't separate them

[Aynsof]

I have no issues with it it is perfectly natural

[Partshaved]

I like hair , it's such a turn on

[Ipman533]

I shave my mustage and bread

[mjf4fun]

Stupid men, it's just grass on a playground!

[Haithem_Jr]

Notre evryone

[burnitdown]

they dont like men

[Anonymous]

you're stupid

[cherryphi82]

Right back at ya, asshole...