In some cases I find it disrespectful, in other cases artistic.
Generally, I find it weird and annoying. It is weird because it's abnormal behaviour and it's annoying because it has an imposing element to it. In being weird there must be some silly thoughts or behaviours associated with it which may arouse suspicion of many things. In being imposing, any attempt to stand out has in it the element of challenge. If I were to wear a MAGA hat among a group of liberals it would be the same.
However, I wouldn't let such things sully my experience of this world. Annoying or not I am generally kind to anyone, as I must be annoying too to somebody. I am more concerned with what is in their head then on their face. Primarily so I can attain useful information and detect threats. If that same person had an interesting mind I wouldn't care.
I also admire talent, so even if I thought the content of their mind was nothing but silly drama, I wouldn't take that out on the artistic expression if it were good. Although, I may be crude in my expectations. I've seeen much better than this picture.
Above all else I would have to champion almost anyone from the likes of the mob. My enemies enemies are my friends and it is collectivists and mob minded people whom take priority in persecution and discrimination. Also, I wouldn't care to infinge on anyones activity that doesn't break the non aggressive principle.
I don't see how makeup, which is such an insignificant thing would be seen as anoying. It's also not remotely the same as your example. Makeup is a personal thing, self expression, not their to piss of others as you said. It has nothing to do with anyone else. So I don't know how you can compare makeup to political rebellion? Also this is James Charles he's one of the best and most influential makeup artists in the world, go check out his work, there's not a lot of people better than him in the business. But hey, agree to disagree man.
On the contrary, self expression has in it an element of competition. Because self expression exists in a social domain of competing self interests. These expressions garner and embody thought and behaviour. They also exude influence and promulgate the dissemination of ideas. These expressions usually have an implicit attachment of values. So though we may not go to the ballad box and cast our votes, there is an element to politics to it. Don't you think the laws and policies of our nation are an expression of the peoples will? Or is it that the majority of people actually are murderous and oppressed? Do you really think that Trump supporters only wear political attire to instigate conflict?
Your mistake is that you refuse to see that I had used the term element which expresses a dileniation of such a thing like politics. Although there is a competitive nature inherent to such a thing, I am not suggesting this is the same as armed conflict or some other extremity. You are taking me out of context and trying to control the definitions to push your argument.
I would agree that wearing make up is rather insignificant. So is wearing a MAGA hat. In where and how they are worn changes this. Isn't it inflamnatory to wear a KKKlans hat to a BLM rally? However make up barely is the source of much conflict I will admit.
I will add to that in a business environment it is demanded that people wear uniforms to minimize conflicts caused by self expression. The lack of conformity is an act of arrogance.
If you cannot make the connection, it is not because it isn't there. It's because you choose not to acknowledge it because you'd rather remove your idea from the same negative deductions.
All I said is that your making a much bigger deal about something much smaller. No one who puts on makeup goes through the thought process you just mentioned. And I'm not using it to strengthen my argument, I disagreed with you. And that is cool, we don't have to agree on things. You view makeup differently than I do. I get the idea Americans compare everything to Trump/politics, maybe because I'm from a completely different continent, I don't get why this conversation had to go political. Self expression is not a form of competition, it says 'self' for a reason. I don't think anyone (for example) puts on maskara in the morning with the thought that they want to go against the norm, they do it because it makes their eyes pop, because they like the way they look and feel while wearing it.
I'm not American either. Im from the north of it. It's not that I am trying to push the topic into American politics. It's that there's a simularity of comparison that emphasises the extreme side of what is being compared.
So, I put forth some case as to why self expression. is by proximity involved in a competitive nature. You then said it isn't, which doesn't neccessarily address what I asserted. I think if I dressed nude infront of school kids, my self expression may be contested. I am using extremes to give the bare minimum parametre to agreement. You put forth the opposite extreme. Can we agree that there is a middle? We can move from the extremes to the specifics if it need be contested.
And I already stated that I am not making a big deal. You are ignoring the nuance and stretching what I've said.
Well thats very unfair of you to treat me like I dont deserve my fair arguments to be treated fairly. However, from our current discussion I am under the impression that you are still a nice person. I only press because I am being mistreated.
I never judged your character, I disagreed with your argument. Of course I thought about what you said in order to disagree with it, I had to read it, think about it. I think your a nice person to, I like the way you word yourself. It's okay to not agree with people.
Well, on the internet in general. People in person are the same too. Its just in person there's that eminent fear of immediate reprecussion.
Doesn't matter as much though if you just point out that people should have values higher than clobbering each other in public. Like, I actually kind of like people. I kinda don't want to start mini wars with people over little things. I get in arguments simply because I think it has some healthy outcome to it. But these guys going online and such just to argue in one-upmanship is just asinine. But the bottom line which is failed to be addressed is that a lot of people are just looking for fights.
Oh yeah, I ask a question because I want to know people's thoughts on it. Some of these people though, it's like they use the app as their own therapist, taking their anger out on any question, no matter what is asked you know. And I love discussions, even if you don't agree, it's fun to delve into someone else's perspective, and see the world the way someone else does.
I like having good discussions too. Most my veiws are unpopular which really leaves not many people to talk to. So in order to do so there's gotta be a cap over my temper. Otherwise it becomes a lonely world. This is something I think other people need to learn. Like, they go online just to cause trouble and then having discussions where people disagree can't exist because they've learnt that it's just pointless conflict. So, like why do these people act like that when it's a major disincentive.
Well, the answer is clear. Theyre either psychotic or megamaniacal. Some people just don't know how to communicate and others think theyre some great intellectual by harrassing folk on the internet in debates. But it's stupid.
That is something I think needs note though that I try to convey when I can. Some people really don't know how to communicate with others. So even though they spaz or what not its not that theyve got a black heart but thats how theyve learnt to speak. They dont really see their vitriol as bad as it is, they didn't intend for it to be that way either.
I've got like two examples to demonstrate what I mean to.
there's kids, kids will reenact the roles of authority that were impressed on them. If one child was taught not to touch their face, the next child who does it they will mimic the way they were taught.
Then there's men and women in how they express anguish. Men get angry and women get teary when they get frustrated. Generally, this is because women recieve comfort and are are submissive to authority. Women cry as to invite comfort. Men though from the dark ages were spited and they had no one to comfort them. Typically all child care was performed by mothers and most mothers were severely mentally crippled as the times were, suffering PTSD, they often identified with their daughters and identified their sons as their neglectful husbands. So men develop a reaction of anger and aggression opposed to teariness.
The point of the second example is that people don't recognize the behaviour. They only see anger when its actually anguish. The frustration underpinning how males and females react is the same thing, but it comes out differently. Most these internet guys are just disturbed.
But ya, we generally lack authentic compassion throughout society. I dont feel the need to be too critical with those guys
Yes I agree with all of the above. My question are unpopular to and I really feel like I have to reign my temper/thoughs in, or we'll sugarcoat them. Definitely agree that you should show compassion to people lashing out, you don't know if you talked about something that triggers them. I should do that more. I do however get the impression that the people on this app doesn't like to talk about serious things, but more cookie cutter things or sex.
The simple truth is that most human beings are boxed into a certain way of thinking before any mental independance can be established. The public at large are going to be totallly unable to perform tge tasks we consider to be neccessary humane such as critical thought and objective reasoning. Like, the times we live in are a marvel of bountifulness and we forget that only a 100yrs ago life was relatively hell for most people. Before that it only got worse and worse. We've crawled from out of a time zone where peoples brains were broken beyond concievability. We still have the remnants and fragments of ancient traditions carved into our culture. We are getting better as we technologically evolve but there's still going to be fragments from the past that caused society to corrupt. These people talk in cookie cutter things because they are subjugated to do so. We've removed the bondage of the slaves only to leave them in a world with no direction. Today the asylum is run by the inmates and the old guard has been removed.
It really just comes down to conformity, not just the cliche but psychological conformity, the phenemona were the brain develops mechanisms to persuade the conscious to subordinate itself to subconscious percieved threats. Like, when people see a "real conversation" they don't look at the content, they look for symbols associated to punishable wrong think. When talking about religion, people are often compelled to state it's history involving the murderous nature of the crusades, etc. when in fact you may only be using a religious topic as a tangential point expressing a truth relative to aspects of religion.
People also defer to sex because sex is reprentational of acceptance. It is also the practice children observe from parents to signify desirability. The meaning and truth of there individual relationships are dismissed and there is only the importance is finding psychological acceptance. One of the reasons is epigenetic in the prevelance of rape during our historical upbring. Where rape among adults, both female and male, were everyday practices onto children and sex was how a child found acceptance away from being a bad child. Another main reason is because of hormonal influence, which is crystalized from these psychological factors.
But generally its the same nature. Its psychological conformity in action. And we seem to be blind as a society to the concept.
But, responding to reigning on your temper and thoughts. Sometimes its good. Sometimes its conformist. Emotions are railways that guide our bodily energy into creative thought. Each emotion having a varying nature of creation. Like, when you are grieving a loved one, your thoughts are so complex and the memories so buried that the only way to access such creative thoughts are to put the entire body into a type of reboot. Each emotion can be good, its normal and good to want to punch an evil doer. Its just that you may be under conformist influence and may only be acting under the alter ego of your own opprrssors.
As a male cosplayer for a range of things (movie characters, anime characters, game characters etc) I have to generally use quite a lot of makeup to look like those characters as most of them are really that realistic looking. I understand that many people have a negative stance towards guys wearing makeup, I've experienced it myself, but for me personally the support has overwhelmed the negatives and nowadays I don't get too much shit for it anymore. I don't put makeup on a regular basis, only for photoshoots/dance covers, but I don't feel that it's anything that far out of the ordinary anymore.
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I think it's artistic and I have no problem either guys wearing it, but I will say that I don't find it overly attractive and wouldn't date someone who wore it.
@iamnewhered hell if I knew. And no, men aren't ugly, I just find makeup doesn't make them look better as it usually does for women. Personal preference here.
Makeup is such a small thing, so the guy could be gorgeous and amazing, but like to cover his skin with foundation (like most women) and you'd just say, pass, because of makeup, even if he's perfect?
Perfection does exist if you accept someone's flaws and imperfections. Agree to disagree then, I just don't think for me personally something as insignificant as makeup would throw me off someone. 😊
I don't mind the natural minimal kind where it's just some foundation to even out redness on skin and/or concealer under the eyes to cover dark circles or anything like that, maybe some eyebrow product which makes it rather enhancing/refining rather than the editorial kind. I personally feel like that makeup is only for stage performance, an editorial photoshoot or something like that that has to do with his profession or hobby. But you know what Iean when I am not a fan of the idea of guys with obvious paint of his face when doing his everyday stuff.
Because remember, even drag queens don't wear makeup out if their drag performance!
I don't really like feminine makeup looks on men, but if it's masculine makeup like how it is on male actors, then sure. I don't mind using concealer or foundation because my face is red, but I wouldn't do anything more than that.
They have the liberty to do what they're gonna do though, and I have the liberty to dislike it. Sure, I'll lowkey judge them in my mind, but that's about it. I feel a little differently when it comes to drag queens, as drag queens already have the complete look and are fabulous as hell, but I think it's weird when a guy looks like a guy in terms of clothes and hair, but very feminine makeup.
I don't do it but I've no issue with guys using a little to cover up like acne or big zits but the guy is taking it to a whole new level. Is he a makeup artist or something?
I think makeup doesn't have a gender, I've seen a lot of guys who look so hot in makeup. Whatever a girl or guy wants to do to their face or body they can. I love James Charles, Patrick Starr, and some other guy makeup artist. For all the people who says he's gay, well DUHH we know that. Most guys who wear makeup are.
I think it's fine. Especially if they take a little time to practice how make up is applied correctly. I don't see any reason why men shouldn't be able to enhance their face with make up, just as much as women.
But I have to say, that I would find it weird, if a man that is straight would make themselves look feminine using make up. If I was a man, I would use make up to enhance masculine features instead of feminine.
My grandfather and greatgrandfather fought in WW1 and WW2 for this shite? LOL. That is the ugliest "guy" I've ever seen. My neighborhood's chihuahua would chew him up for breakfast.
I love it when I see guys like that. Because laughter releases pheromones, dopamine & endorphins. The last one is the equivalent to opiates. I'm pretty sure that's why I'm addicted to GAG. @chocolatecheesecake
Depends if you are a celebrity or have some skin problems and you want them to be hidden. Back in the 80s it was a fashion for famous men to wear make up, look at Michael Jackson for example. Anyways, 90% of male celebrities wear makeup, they have to look beautiful and young. As for normal men well, I don't wanna see a man wearing makeup.
But there's a difference between a guy wearing makeup, to hide acne. VS the guy in the post. That's not to hide acne. That's actually makeup-- mascara, and etc.
I love James Charles ! He gets away with it ! I have no problem with guys who wear make up.. I've even noticed male actors on tv shows also wear make up but it kept natural !
nothing wrong with it. In my opinion makeup isn’t gender specific and is a form of art. Some of the work figures like James Charles and Jeffree Star do are incredible.
There are many ways you can wear make up. Just because a guy wears make up doesn't mean he's going to put on pink lipstick and black eyeshadow. Just a reminder for some of the guys in the comments. I think it's totally fine
But makeup? That's just weird AF to me. That is the ONE area I might agree with feminists that we have privilege. We don't have to wear makeup. And these guys are volunteering? Strange.
Personally i think it would be a bad strategy in terms of becoming more attractive to women. Some women will say things like " Its takes bravery to wear make up as a man". But honestly, I dont believe them. I believe that most women would regard a man with make up as insecure about his looks, and insecurity is just way too unattractive. The only time it might be pulled off is in the Goth community.
lame, bizarre and why would a guy want to wear make up anyway? Make up was done for women. Why guys want to be like us? I mean that is why we were born differently men and women period is as simple as that.
With James Charles type guys I don't really agree with it but they can do what they want, BUT if they're wearing make up for comedy like Martin Lawrence did for all these years playing as women then yeah I'm all for it.
With all due respect, well it's hard to respect that but... it looks just way stupid and... gay. I can't really say if that's a girl or a guy or a demon.. I just said the truth
And @ all the girls saying "makeup is genderless, you do you uwu"... would *you* date a feminine pansy of a man, or would you rather a man who's strong and masculine? Like I'm being serious. The vast majority of women aren't into that. It's like those guys who get face tattoos, like yes technically you can do what you want, but you *really* shouldn't.
@softrosie we can say makeup has no gender and still not want to date a guy who wears makeup its just what we prefer, why you so uptight? Lol. Wearing makeup doesn't really make a guy less masculine.
Because you say you want tough men, but feminists are killing a man's desire to be manly. The second a man is tough he's shot down for "toxic masculinity", and then shown dozens of articles about why men should wear makeup. Let men be men.
Feminist aren't killing anything, they dont make men wear makeup its their choice. Because honestly if they desired to be manly then they will be. A guy wear makeup because he wants to, I doubt a women writing an article about it has that much effect on his life.
Not with all the social stigma. You guys are the first to point out how social stigma makes women more likely to wear makeup because they'll feel inadequate without it? Nobody's outright telling women they need to wear it, they just do because of a hostile society? The same thing is happening about men and masculinity. Feminists (who control most of the educational institutions and media institutions) are forcing the idea that for a man to be tough, aggressive, basically just being a man is wrong. Then they go around preaching that men need to be more gentle, praising men who wear makeup, demonising men who "manspread" (read: take up space as a man) and "mansplain" (read: have different opinions as a man)... society is demonising the masculine and worshipping the feminine. Let men be men.
Lol you can't blame everything on feminist, not a feminist just saying. This is the real world hun most of the time when men wear makeup or even women they dont do it because society told them to, they do it because it makes them feel more confident about theirselves. No one says they feel inadequate without it, okay its for example a girl wants to be prettier so she buys herself a beautiful dress so she can feel BEAUTIFUL, not because society made her feel that way. And girly you need to check your facts because part of being a feminist does not try to demasculate men, if thats what you're saying. Feminist NEVER said or try to say that being a man is wrong, feminism has NOTHING to do with men mostly. You need to really learn what feminism means because feminism is basically believing that WOMEN are just as equal as men, can do everything a man can do. It had NOTHING to do with making men feel feminine or less manly. No one praises men, just because women dont go around telling men off who wear makeup we're prasing them? Wrong.
Yeah that may be true but being a feminist doesn't mean all women wanting to demasculate men because it isn't true, you need to learn more about feminism before you really offend someone with half information.
Of course not all, but the ones who do have a scary amount of power. I used to be a feminist, I know how it is. And if the truth offends you, then you're too far gone.
Just because you think your truth is everyone's truth doesn't make it true. What you think is true could be incredible wrong. Just because you said you were a feminist doesn't mean you had the femnist mindset meaning you could have been saying crazy shit and saying thats how feminist think.
The truth about feminism is that it's gone off the deep end. It's not about equality anymore, but about control, and how much they can "push the envelope" until they have total control over everything, like little dictators.
yeah okee... you're confused. You went from talking about how feminist want to demasculate men into wearing makeup to how they want to take over the world, lol okee
I agree @softrosie. I don't think that masculine men are affected by the talk of toxic masculinity. I think the problem is that young men who are confused about their roles as men are the ones who are easily influenced by that emasculating bullshit and they listen to stupid women.
Half the trouble is that women for the most part are fucking clueless (you're obviously not) when it comes to masculinity but many people think that women are or should be the ones to define it. And whatever women say they want men will try to be because obviously they wanna get laid. It's mainly women who are saying that make-up has nothing to do with gender, it's mainly women who talk about how bad toxic masculinity is, as well as the usual stuff about how they want guys who show their emotions and cry. Confused guys see that and go with it, and they become emasculated faggots parroting what those clueless women have told them a man should be. It's those guys who are fooled by it.
@softrosie I think your taking a lot of personal issues out on @purple_babe14, I agree with @purple_babe14.
I would 100% date a man who wears makeup, it does not effect his masculinity. Maybe you should ask yourself what you think masculinity and femininity is. Is it the way someone carries themselves (in that case something as insignificant as makeup shouldn't matter) or is it about what they wear/what they say/how much they conform to society? For me the most masculine thing a guy can do, is being himself, owning it, not feeling so threatened by makeup in this example, that he can wear it if he wants it and rock it, since his masculinity is not threatened by something like makeup. As for feminine guys, there's absolutely nothing wrong with them, I love masculine guys as much as I love feminine guys.
You can lie to yourself as much as you want, men wearing makeup, worrying about chipping their nails, and sobbing over Marley and me is NEVER masculine. Leave it to a feminist to warp and twist a word to suit her own meaning. Words HAVE meanings you know, you don't have to try to fit your own definition.
That's just your opinion. I don't think a man is any less masculine if he cries in a sad movie? Since when is expressing emotions linked to masculinity/femininity? Who didn't cry while watching Marley and me?
It's not an opinion, it's a literal fact? "Masculine: having qualities traditionally ascribed to men, as strength and boldness". I know you know what "masculine" means when it comes to trans people. Would you or would you not call someone who wears makeup and nail polish and is overly emotional "masculine-presenting"?
Yes I would still call them 'masculine-presenting' because in your definition makeup does not take away a mans strength or boldness. Have you met men? Something like this does not define their masculinity, and I find it absurd that you think something as insignificant like makeup would define masculinity. A true masculine man wouldn't care, this won't attack his masculinity. On the contrary.
And no it is not a fact, this is your opinion, you can't make the world agree with it just because it is what you believe. People are allowed to have different opinions. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you, nothing wrong with that.
Your logic is that a man is masculine if he's comfortable doing feminine things. If he's doing feminine things then by definition he's the opposite of masculine.
That's the same thing. Masculine is masculine. Feminine is feminine. They're opposites. If a man becomes more feminine, he becomes less masculine by definition which is why your argument doesn't make sense at all.
No it does, your definition of masculinity and feminnity is just very close minded. If a girl does sporty things I don't automatically think she's more masculine, same with guys doing feminine things. It's no big deal. Why does something so small, so insignificant threaten masculinity/femininity?
Definitions for *everything* are inherently close minded. Words have meanings, and that meaning is strict. It's like the number "12" can't also mean "34", it has its definition, and no matter how you feel about it it will never change. "Masculine" And "feminine" are opposites, and the more you have of one, the less you have of the other
And yeah, if I met a girl who did masculine sports like boxing or football, she is more masculine than most girls. If I met a guy who did cheerleading or ballet, he's more feminine.
It's not closed minded to say that masculinity and femininity are opposites. Words mean things, but people like you seem to want to redefine those things to the point where they mean nothing at all and what you're saying isn't logical.
Gender is not just a word, like 12 or 34. Masculinity and femininity is more complex than just a word. But that was not my discussion. My discussion was that if makeup threatens 'masculinity' then the masculine person isn't all that masculine. I get that their is masculine and feminine, I just said something like makeup isn't and shouldn't be linked to either. It's just face paint.
Agree to disagree, I'm not going to waste my time discussing something with someone who is to close minded to look past their own beliefs and completely refuses to see anyone else's point of view. Good night to you.
Hot is high temperature, cold is low temperature. Those words mean things.
If the temperature is high and it drops, it became less hot. If the temperature is low and it rises, it becomes less cold.
Is 20°C just as hot as 30°C? No, it's cooler. Less hot. More cool. Is it closed-minded of me to say that? Is my definition of hot and cold too narrow? If we were to say that 20°C is just as hot as 30°C, would the words hot and cold mean anything at all?
Masculinity and femininity work in just the same way. Feminists and SJWs might want to blur the definition, but that's what it is. Some people are more or less masculine/feminine than others. There's no logic to your arguments. You've just been told by dumb feminists that if a man acts like a woman he's just as masculine as a man who acts like a man. In fact if he's confident in acting like a woman he's more of a man. Therefore, those words mean nothing at all. That's ridiculous. You clearly do not understand what masculinity is.
If all guys did it and all girls did it... we would be all the same. So.. its pointless. It's very gay... I don't think any straight guy would do it unless it's for acting
Do you think makeup looks ugly af on men simply because men are naturally inherently ugly... hence even makeup can't make them look better, while makeup looks stunning on women because women are inherently very beautiful?
@iamnewhered If we're talking about a grotesque abomination like in the picture above, that would look ugly as fuck on anyone. Men or women. I mean look at it - that doesn't even look human anymore. It looks like some crappy CGI porn character created by a psychopath.
Generally a negative in my view, though I don't mind it if it's costume. Corpse paint and eyeliner for musicians is fine, but wearing makeup is fruity otherwise
I'll never get make up period, on whoever it is. Expressive? Or hiding something? Not happy with the way you look? Women are easy to pump money out of lol.
So u r telling me that a guy who is putting a lip gloss and mascara before he goes out maybe even doing his nails is a manly man? Seriously just look at the photo And it's not just the way they look.. it also affects the way they talk and the way they act. I can't imagine a man getting mad bec his nail broke or going to the bathroom to fix his eyeliner. That just is so not okay to me
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