Girls, how soon do you put guys into the friendzone?

[Anonymous]

Questions for you ladies!

1) If you see a guy as only a friend once, how likely is it that this will change in the future? Is the friendzone a permanent tag?

2) Would you flirt with a guy who you viewed as a friend? (winky faces, kisses, xoxox). Also, would you message a guy regularly, initiate conversations via text and go on nights out with a guy who you thought as only a friend?

3) Finally, what is the best tip for a guy who's trying to avoid the friendzone over message?

Thanks! Have a field day! :)

[TorshJohansen]

1) From an observer standpoint, there's very little chance if he's the "friend zone kinda guy", unless he's out of her league in looks. It's most often a permanent tag.

Remember this: Just because you're Considered Friends with a gal, does not mean she Friend-Zoned you. Friend-Zoned means she's not interested or attracted to you much if at all, but thinks you're a cool guy to hang with. If you become somewhat close friends and you're not above her league or anything, it will many times turn INTO a Friend-Zone.

Guys can break out of the true Friend-Zone sometimes, usually if she had some attraction but lack of interest because she thought he was x-y-z, but he showed that he's not and has a new view of him. The Younger the girl, the better chance. Once you go 25 years old+, fat chance -- unless you're physically attractive to her and something uncommon happens (like her friend wanting you and it sparks something in her, or she's in a different state of mind on the rebound, etc).

In essence, don't expect to get out of the true Friend Zone, if you're actually in it. :)

2) Some girls will innocently flirt with guys they see as a friend, and when pretty drunk, maybe a little bit more. And some want a friend-zoned guy-friend for attention -- knowing that he likes her -- she'll want guy-attention, misleading him. Watch out for that.

3) Don't establish yourself as a shoulder to lean on. You're not going to be a male version of her gal-pal. There's not 1 message to do it. It's a demeanor, an attitude... you want to send out the vibe that you're not the type to have close 1-on-1 friendships with a gal to "be there for her" unless she's related to you... if you're going to hang and get close at all with a gal, it's going to be non-platonic. That vibe needs to be sent out.

[Asker]

If this girl i'm texting at the moment does friend zone me I am going to be very annoyed, even though i know she might have good reason because of going to college in September. She messages me every day and we chat for ages, which means that she likes talking to me. At the moment, i'm not sure what she wants

[Asker]

Also, I can't really send anything out yet because I've only met her once and haven't been on a date yet. If I start seriously flirting it's going to look like I just want her sexually without having the time to be around her first and get to know her more

[TorshJohansen]

Dude, you have "Please Friend Zone Me" tattooed on your forehead. You got her #, hit her up, and ask to hang out sometime. It's that simple. You've talked for a long time...

Just because she's going away to college does not mean she's going to Friend Zone guys beforehand. Wake up!

You're just too chicken, man. Don't be. Grow a pair -- without even having to throw yourself on her At All. Flirting is not shoving your tongue down her throat -- you can start with harmless flirting... tongue-in-cheek (as in kinda joking around but you aren't totally joking)...

Flirt with her -- learn the ropes. Otherwise you're ASKING to be and/or stay in the friend-zone man! Don't let fear of being let down be an instrument of finding excuses! :)

[Asker]

I spoke to her friends and one of them told me about her ex and how much of a nice and sentimental guy he was and how they were really good together, which is the kinda guy I am as well. She knows i'm a nice guy but i'm not coming across in text as just a guy she can just talk to.

I do tease her and I do make funny jokes and make her laugh, it's not like i'm deliberately trying to be her gay best friend or anything. It's just that I haven't been able to see her face to face all really so far so it's hard for her to judge me completely

[TorshJohansen]

Don't try or even focus on being "like her ex". Now it's good to know what she likes, and sure, make sure you exude that quality. As you say, you're naturally like that -- so you have no worries! You don't have to focus on anything. No matter how much a Mr. Nice Guy tries to put more spine & flirtiness into things -- he's Never going to lack still having a vibe of being a nice guy. Don't worry about that. At All.

How are you NOT coming across in text as just a guy she can & does talk to? What is more than that? Being a guy who wants to hang out non-platonically. If you roll with the Platonic vibe, you ARE just a guy she can & does talk to -- a FRIEND.

You ARE just a guy she can & does talk to -- because as you say, you haven't been able to see her face to face at all really! You're chicken to shift gears, even smoothly, into hanging out together, non-platonically.

[TorshJohansen]

You're making the mistake that flirting with her and setting even a cordial but understandable tone that it's Not platonic, and setting an aim to hang out/meet up sometime soon -- as something that makes someone "less nice". Come on, man.

Having a spine and shifting gears to make getting together, with a non-platonic undertone does not mean you're lacking Nice. Otherwise, her ex wasn't nice, as they were not platonic.

You're substituting the fear of rejection, even kind "I just want to be friends" rejection -- as something you'd have to be doing that would be devilish and lacking being a cool, nice guy. Don't do that, man. Suck it up. You'll be kicking yourself if you ride this out and just be a phone-shoulder to lean on as a (virtual) friend.

[Asker]

Thing is we are hanging out, We enjoyed each other's company on the night out and we're going to do the same next saturday. After that, when her work has cooled off a bit i'll make another move at a date because when I asked the last few times I forgot that she was working full time during that week. Trust me mate, I'm not sitting back and waiting for her to make the move because as a guy that's my job, I want to make her feel desired. I don't mind giving it a bit of time. I've told her that I enjoy her company and we have agreed to hang out/date. Thing is she knew her ex for a long time, I've only known her for a matter of weeks. They lived in the same town as well and probably saw each other a lot. I've got to bear this in mind before I start rushing into things

[Asker]

I'm not a chicken to make a move, especially when I know that if things go tits up i won't see her that often anyway so it won't be awkward. I don't want to keep on talking about dates and shit because I did that enough a week back so she knows i'm interested in one on one meeting

[TorshJohansen]

But wait, you said "It's just that I haven't been able to see her face to face all really so far". You're saying that you DO hang out with her, but before you say you don't. Which is it? That's a pretty big gap!

And I'm not saying/implying that you're waiting on her. It's that don't get comfortable sitting around just being a phone-friend, thinking that making a move to hang out together is too bold and what less nice guys do or something. :)

IF you are hanging out some, 1-on-1, as you now put it, do kino touching (usually subconscious or semi-subconscious brief touching of shoulders, arms, hands, sides; you can look it up) -- and go in for a kiss at the end of the night. Don't aim for perfection; just aim away from bad situations.

If she doesn't want to kiss you -- she's not interested. Plain and simple. If you hover around uncomfortably not wanting to make a kiss move at the end of a date or throwing it out there to meet on X day 1-on-1, then you're just asking to be FZd

[Asker]

Hanging out and going out on nights out are a bit different i think. I have made a move to date but I understand she does have her reason. She has said that later in August would be better for her so I have done my part already

[TorshJohansen]

Hanging out and going out on nights aren't different. People hang out in the evenings all the time. :)

Okay, you asked to go out on a date (or phrased/placed that it was obvious that it was more date-like)... and she said later in August would be better? Okay, she's not that interested, sorry.

She's just pushing that possibility back because she doesn't want to. Don't hang out WITH her on any level if she's not interested in going out, 1-on-1. If she has time to hang out with ya (with or without mutual friends) -- she has time to "go out".

In that case, I would keep the texts to her minimal, and not focus much attention on her if/when hanging out amongst mutual friends -- and move on to meet other girls. Don't hang in the shadows hoping that texting her or hanging-out-as-friends is going to change her mind. It won't.

[Asker]

Sorry she didn't say later in August I apologize, she said after her 12 days of full time work were over which is like August 5th. She agreed to a date before and was going to go on it on her only free day, but something cropped up and I couldn't make it but she was cool with that

[Asker]

Also, she wouldn't suggest another date or time for a date if she didn't want to, otherwise she'd just get me pestering her when we could go on a date at a later stage. If she really wasn't interested she wouldn't be wasting my time and that's not just me trying to be an optimist. I can tell when a girl really isn't interested and so far it doesn't seem that case

[TorshJohansen]

Okay... and she knows/understands that this is along the lines of a Date, and it's 1-on-1, right?

If so, then you very well may not be in the FZ. Although you're not out of the woods. There is no real difference between hanging out & having an informal date. Evenings do make it more "date-ish", yes. If you hang out 1-on-1 in the evening, even informally (which ya should probably do), she could twist it in her mind that you're pretty much just a friend and wants to be nice knowing you like her.

Don't get too worried about that possibility though. Just roll with it, flirt some here and there when out, set the tone, do some kino-touching here and there -- be comfortable, look at her not as a girl who's a female friend but as a girl you're Out With... and at the end of the night, go for a kiss.

If she denies or seems uncomfy about the kiss, then she's not interested in ya. When a girl does have interest and knows you, the date-outing won't be cancelled -- she'll want to go out.

[Asker]

Sounds fair to me man, thanks for taking the effort to reply! I can safely say that so far I haven't put a foot out of line with her, I haven't been too reticent or too keen and I haven't fucked up or insulted her but I would like to know the next step if possible, but I guess time will tell. I am flirting more now which is good

[TorshJohansen]

"Also, she wouldn't suggest another date or time for a date if she didn't want to, otherwise she'd just get me pestering her when we could go on a date at a later stage."

Not so fast. Yes, it would keep from pestering -- whether it be a gal-pal who wants to hang out, or a boy she wants to be friends with but not all that interested, or a boy she likes. Can't feed off that alone. That only works with gals you don't talk with but just got the # of (and even that isn't 100%).

Girls can have lack of interest but paradoxally still talk with a guy and set up potential times to hang out in the future. Usually though, when they like them as a friend -- not common when it's all or nothing. I'm not shooting things down! Just saying nothing's a Given yet -- but gambling odds are in your favor of at least some interest.

So to your last comment: Yeah, roll with it -- good that you flirt a bit more... keep things from going mum between you until ya meet -- and at the end of your date, kiss

[Asker]

Yeah i phrased a date as 'would you like to do something together this saturday' which is fine I think

[TorshJohansen]

Yeah -- but apparently since you allegedly KNOW her and have talked so much -- it should be easier to get to the point about it. It sounds like what you said reflected that, which is fine. However, I would have recommended inserting a "with me" in there.

But in the end, no matter -- as long as during the outing/date, you set the tone as NOT a guy-friend. No, that doesn't mean Boyfriend... it means a guy who rolls with her where kissing (and more) is totally kosher without question.

If you can't do that, you're wasting your time. Because you're not strangers at all. Again, do Not get comfy being her shoulder to lean on. Be the guy who sends the subconscious vibe that you'll drop/buck the shoulder if that's Merely the case.

[Asker]

I think I might have my answer then. If I flirt and I don't get the same back, or if I ask her on a date and I get another wishy washy excuse then I can safely see that she was on Tinder just for male attention which I don't have time for to be honest. It'll be a shame really if this is the case because I've pretty much wasted my time for the last 3 weeks because i'm certainly not looking just for female attention

[Asker]

Thing is I can't see how she can friendzone me this early because she hasn't given me a chance on a date yet. The only time we've spoken face to face is while we were drunk because that's been the only time we've met. If she doesn't want to date then it's obviously a sign that she isn't looking for anything serious anyway because to be quite frank, if I can't get a date with her (with the way we get along and the way I make her laugh and all that) then I don't think many guys would have much luck either.

Many people say that i'm a very good looking guy so i'm not putting looks as a reason for being potentially friendzoned. What i'm thinking is that I get along almost TOO well with this girl that she might think of me as her soul-mate or something.

[TorshJohansen]

Girls friend-zone a guy right off the bat all the time. Girls aren't in a situation to "give a guy a 'chance'" - lol. It's called not-attracted -- but likes guy-attention & friendship. A guy she's not Interested in can still give her that.

Your story seems to change somewhat. So you've only spoken face to face once before, drunk -- so, you haven't hung out at all. You're not "Getting along TOO well" with her -- you guys text! That's it -- with a girl you talked with face to face ONCE, drunk.

Don't skew/warp things to pad the ego. Look at it for what it is: She MAY be open to something more than friends, possibly. That's about it. You're not some guy she thinks "Wow, I really like him". Now, doesn't MEAN friend-zone per se -- but that's why I say don't come off as someone who gives the vibe that you could be friends if nothing else. Give off the vibe that you like her & want to hang out -- and that you're not looking for fem friends.

[Asker]

I say we've spoken face to face drunk, it was her and two of her other friends on a night out so it was quite hard to get to know her one on one which is why I am keen to organize a date. I do think I am the kind of guy who she thinks: 'Wow, I really like him''. She talks to me all the time and initiates conversation and I've kept her up late at night talking to her which she really likes.

Essentially, IF I am in the friendzone, there's not much more I could've done in the past few weeks to change that I don't think. Honestly I think I've played it well so far, and it's the same way I am when chatting up other girls which has seemed to work in the past.

[TorshJohansen]

When I refer to "I hang out with Sally", that implies 1-on-1, or we hang out together amongst a crowd. You haven't hung out With her yet. What you describe this time does have the classic outline of a friend-zone. Now, what would imply that it wasn't FZ?

If you text a lot AND also talk on the phone some by her volition... and at some point, she asks you questions a gal who has interest asks. If that never comes up, and she's busy to meet up 1-on-1 and all that, or ever steers it to meeting up with her friends too, etc -- she's FZ'd you. At best, you'd be FZ'd with a low chance of a temporary hookup before she leaves to college.

Don't hang on hope just because she likes merely talking to you. That's what FZ means. It's picking up on interest by her to determine whether she's FZ'd you or not. If you talk a lot -- then it's NOT difficult to figure that out -- although you come across as though you have a biased ear to it though.

[TorshJohansen]

For instance, if she mentions girls you should meet, as if she's being like a female friend -- she's not that into. If she doesn't flirt at all and only in Return to what you do (and somewhat mildly so; your excitement does not mean her return isn't mild) -- all while never wanting to roll into back-n-forth cute banter of boy-likes-girl/girl-likes-boy -- she's not into you.

Know the difference between a girl having Interest as to WHY she's talking to you -- as opposed to a girl wanting to talk with a boy. If the latter, then AT BEST you MAY have a hookup chance IF she is game for that kinda thing and the timing's right.

Could you have done something to undo a FZ? Yeah. But would risk being friends -- which I'm sure you (nor many other guys who have the crush) would do. You'd ask questions that a guy IS interested would ask -- and not too subtle... you'd throw things out there to instigate potential jealousy, which instigates a latent non-platonic desire. Stuff like that.

[Asker]

This is all really helpful stuff but I still can't say for sure until I've given a go at going on a date with her again. She's told me she doesn't work as much now and she's told me the days she does work on and the hours so really if she turns round and says no again then I'll give up I reckon.

It'll be a shame because I have really enjoyed talking to her and everything but if there's no light at the end of the tunnel as far as something serious is concerned then I'm going to have to leave it alone, otherwise I'm just talking to her for the sake of her having someone to talk to which is not what I am.

The last few days though things have picked up a bit as far as flirting is concerned and she doesn't just text me now in the evenings. I'm not saying this is all the evidence I need, I'm just happy to hold out for a bit longer and keep the flirting up, maybe ramp it up a bit. If she doesn't respond in a similar way then I'll be the one to friendzone her

[Asker]

If we saw each other regularly, lived in the same town, worked in the same place, etc all of this, then this would be so much easier to read, instead of the quandary i'm in at the moment which is just me guessing from the other end of a mobile.

[decemberxblue]

Believe it or not, but it can be within the first 10 seconds.

She knows very quickly whether or not she has a sexual connection with you.

The friend-zone is NEVER lifted. Stop being friends, don't waste your time on someone who doesn't have potential for what you're looking for.

[Misunderstoodvirgo6]

1) it can change it likely it just I just met him so i can only hope for friendship plus I dont know him that much need some time to get to know him and see who he is as a person etc

2) no I wouldn't flirt with a guy if I didn't feel something with him. I dont want to give off the wrong mess but if were both playng around and we know were playing around and all it may come off flirttaious but were just having fun that all so it best to not take any of it serious unless you fully know for sure. Some people are just flirty or friendly.

3) over mess? Like texting? I have no idea honesty it either they like you or they dont. Just be your self and have fun their no really advice I can give on staying out of this "friendzone" but really I dont call it that it either the person likes you or dont nothing really to it. But just be honest with how you feel dont beat around the bush just go for it. If they dont like you dont be like i been friendzone what does it matter sure it hurts but that just means that just dont see you and hpw great you are that click connection not there but someone else will and move on. Keep the friendship if you want why does it have to be ruin if you had fun together.

[lillymay15]

1) Depending on how the guy follows up after meeting once makes all the difference. If the first thing you say afterwards sounds like something a friend would say to another, friendzone. There are ways to get out of the friendzone even if you missed the first opportunity. It is not a permanent tag for someone who continually tries to get out of it.
2) Yes, nearly all girls do. I wouldn't say many kiss with a friend though. It really all depends on how the guy talks to her. Girls reciprocate to how guys talk with them.
Most of the time if a guy friendzones a girl we don't talk to them as much, especially if there was a conversation making it clear you are just going to be friends. It's hard for girls to regularly text or go on nights out with a guy who didn't like you back; we don't want to give the impression we're not over you by inviting you to anything or starting conversations.
3) Use winky faces, if you have emojis use the hearts as eyes or one blowing a heart. Don't go overboard with compliments, it doesn't work. Stick to about one or two compliments a day if you must.

[president97]

1- I dont think it is a permanent tag. Because once girls learn about someone have a crush on them they change. They want to keep him for only theirselves and they act different. In some cases eventually they like them too.
2- I would send smileys which involve kisses and winky faces but i dont think this is flirting. This is just a reflection of intimacy between my friend and i. And yes i would go out with him because i constantly talk with my girl friends and i am going out at night with them and i think it is the same with a guy friend.
3- Do not talk about other girls, talk about how nice she is. Tell her that the time you spent together was nice and you are glad. Do not go into the stuff that you talk with your guy friends.

[poppunk]

1.) Probably not going to happen. I need someone I like for every aspect of them, so if I reject you there's something I don't like and that's probably not going to change.
2.) Absolutely not. I can't flirt to begin with, but even if I could i'd never want to do anything to promote false hope.
3.) I don't really have one except not to take it too harshly and move on

[Asker]

Your answer for the second one is bang on in my opinion. Guys wouldn't flirt with girls they only viewed as friends so I don't see why it should be any different the other way round

[Ozanne]

I don't flirt with male friends. I am quite aware that any move we girls make could be interpreted wrong, so I make sure I don't do a whole lot of things that would be considered flirting. When I was single I saved the pouty looks and arm-touching when I wanted a man to know I wanted more. Usually the attraction for women is very fast, and has a slow death if nothing develops. This is why some women get frustrated when they have one date and three months later say, "He said he'd call..." and really, WAIT for the elusive phone call.

If you aren't getting offers to do things alone with her, have a meal with her, or be the recipient of her touching, flirty texts and flirting in general, it means you're in the friend zone. Once you're there, it's like a vortex of social stunting for all involved.

[Yellowbone]

1. It is RARE that I change my mind. The times that I did, I ended up regretting it, so I try not to change it anymore.
2. If I like him I can't help but flirt lol! If I FEEL like I can possibly change his mind then I'd consider hanging out with him. But in general, I won't even speak to a guy that I like if he doesn't feel the same.
3. Just be yourself. KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN ALWAYS. Don't just follow one girl around HOPING that you won't be friendzoned or that you can change her mind. Once you get the friendzone signs, explore other options.

[Madisonf123]

1. No it is not permanent. A girl can fall for a friend. It happens all the time.

2. Personally if I had a friend who I liked on more than a friendship level, only then would I flirt with him.

3. If you are trying to get out of the Friendzone by message, it's much more difficult than in person. Type something funny, make her laugh. Girls love funny guys. You can compliment her, but don't over step it. It might scare her away.

[dreamingincake]

1. The friend zone can disappear if a guy tells you how he feels and makes his feelings known.
2. Yes, i would flirt with a friend and go out with him.
3. Personally, i would love it if a guy just said "I like you" or "I don't wanna be in your friend zone"

[Asker]

I still don't understand the flirting bit. I mean, would you flirt with a guy you've only met once and mainly talk to over message?

[Asker]

Flirting with someone you view as a friend is just leading them on, especially towards guys who don't want to be just friends most of the time

[Betwyn]

1) Nothing is permanent

2) Flirt yes.. Initiate, I rarely do this period, with anyone.. Go out, more likely in a group of some kind, but just the two of us isn't out of the realm of possibility.

3) There really isn't one. Either you have that something, that gets me instantly.. or you end up in the friendzone.. how long you stay there.. depends on how we interact, getting to know you and what our interpersonal dynamic is..

[name-bons12]

so im never dating i guess :(

[Betwyn]

did you even read my answer?

Of all my ex's, the one that came closest to working.. the one that had me reconsidering my stance on a certain word..

Yeah, he was in the friendzone for 7 years.

[Livinglifebaby]

As soon as we meet them! When we meet a guy that we don't like as bf then we categorize them as bff. But if we hang out with them for awhile we might develop feelings for them. But some girls it might take them a little longer like until they know them for a few days or a little longer for us to put them into the friendzone

[Anonymous]

1) Most of my boyfriends have been in the friendzone..
2) Yes, I do it a lot. But it's all in fun cuz you don't know if the person likes you or not (The flirting). And yes, we're friends, so I'd still like to hangout with them.
3) Tell them up front, if they don't want it, then you know.

[Asker]

But why would you flirt with a guy? Guys will think that if a girl flirts with them, they're interested. Why lead them on?

[Opinion Owner]

Cuz I don't realize what I'm doing to them would be considered as flirting, you know?
I never knew what I did was flirting, until one of my guy friends called me very flirty. And I was shocked, cuz I'm very shy, so I was confused. And it's not that you even know they like you, so you don't think anything of it. That's why I wish guys would let you know up front, then if you were not interested you could really watch what you say.. If that makes sense.

[existing_not_living]

I totally agree with this person! I flirt with my guy friends all the time but I never do it on purpose. The only reason I've even realized that I've flirted with someone is when one of my best friends (girl or guy) has told me. I am a naturally flirty person so if I lead someone on it's definitely not on purpose and no one ever likes me so I doubt my flirting even matters :/ haha

[Asker]

Thanks for replying both of you! :) I get the feeling that this girl i'm messaging isn't exactly the flirty type, in all honesty she's not the most 'feminine' of girls which is why it's hard to judge whether she is flirting or not. In this case, do you think it's worth expressing how I feel about her sooner rather than later? We haven't been on a date yet so it might be a bit premature though :P

[Opinion Owner]

I would let her know right in the beginning, and if the feelings aren't mutual, you guys can definitely stay friends. But you'll never know how she feels if you don't tell her :)

[Asker]

With this last girl I was dating, I said how I felt about her quite soon and she said that it was a bit too early and ever since I said that it felt like I was just waiting for her to feel the same. That didn't end well and I don't want this to be a repeat. Should I say something now over message or possibly wait until we see each other face to face again?

[Opinion Owner]

Well, how long have you been talking to this girl?
Personally, I would rather be told in person.

[Opinion Owner]

But I guess it depends, do you guys hangout a lot or talk message more?

[Asker]

I've been talking to her for around two and half weeks. She lives like 45 mins away by car and she's been working 12 days straight but that ends this weekend. Because of this, it's been difficult for us to hang out but i'm happy to give it time. I'd love to tell her in person which is what I think i'll do when she comes round next week on the night out.

[Asker]

We message a lot. I did that with this other girl a few months back and she really liked me but, in that case, I did help her a lot with some personal issues going in in her life and I think she really appreciated it. It didn't end well in the end

[Asker]

I don't think the problem here is whether she likes me or not, she does. But it's whether she 'really' likes me in another way yet

[Opinion Owner]

That makes sense. Then definitely, tell her in person. So almost 3 weeks, so almost a month, that's not bad. Well, you can always tell her then see how it goes, she might like you back and everything could be good :D

[Asker]

Sounds good! Thanks :)

[WhaChaChaKing]

A guy has only moved out of the friendzone once with me but it was because we had stopped talking for a while then became friends again. I usually know by the time we're friends.

I don't send kisses or anything but sometimes I wink when I make a joke. I do randomly flirt but I do that with my friends that are girls too. It's obviously fake flirting too because it's really stupid.

And I can't help you there.

[demonology]

I don't understand the concept of the friendzone.
as far as im concerned, you have to be my friend before we can go out.

[Asker]

that's a good point, which is why I can't see a reason why this girl I like won't date

[demonology]

this doesn't mean all of my friends have a chance with me.

[xomysterybabexo]

Quick response to via text and smiley faces and winks. Call her more text her more flirt a lot show that you care

[dwiller943]

Right away if we don't know eacother that well.

[Anonymous]

I know within the first few seconds

[name-bons12]

so he has to look like a male model