It's not okay to fault him for having and expressing feelings, or being vulnerable, or deeply caring about something, or being disappointed, or being afraid. He's human, just like you. And shunning him for it is a shitty thing to do. It hurts him just as much as you hurt, when you're not supported, and treated like shit. There is no difference in the pain.
So why do some of you not like it, why do some of you lose attraction to him? I'll answer what you will never say. Because you think he must be stronger than you. Why? Because you feel weak, yourself, and because if he's not strong, all the time, then you can't be weak and vulnerable. That's the real truth. It's not about his masculinity.
"I have been mocked and have had my emotions used against me by both men and women. Vulnerability is only good when exercised properly depending on who you are with. Do it the wrong way, you get punished."
So next time, instead of telling him, or implying 'man up', maybe you should 'woman up.' Get stronger, so you're not reliant on him to always be the only emotionally strong one.
If you don't, and you teach guys that being vulnerable to you is only going to backfire and cause problems, they're going to stay closed off, not trust you (or any of us), and feel that the greatest gift that women used to offer guys - compassion, support, tenderness... doesn't exist anymore. And that will be on you. On those of you who reject men for showing any sign of vulnerability. You want this?And this?He's also these...I'm giving y'all anon on this one. Speak your mind. But be constructive. I'm getting fed up with all the rage and toxicity.
PINK VOTERS: True
PINK VOTERS: False
BLUE VOTERS: This is your entry point. Do not choose A or B. It's a pink poll but I didn't close off the topic to you, so you can see the results!
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Ladies, True or False: "I've lost attraction to a/my man I really cared about because he expressed vulnerability?
He doesn't have to be made out of stone, cause he isn't, neither are we. Life isn't going to be perfect, it sometimes hits us in the face and knocks us down. We can prepare as much as we want, there will be times that we won't be ready. Life's unpredictable that's when we're most vulnerable and that's when the relationship will be tested, when you've seen the worst of eachother and still decide to stick together. A strong man needs a strong woman, you've got to make it work, after the dating phase you'll already see eachother's imperfections, and life throws crap at him, you've got to be there for him, even if he doesn't want it, even if he says he doesn't need it, he doesn't have to act tough. Knowing you've got his back, that he has your support alone will help. And if you do get through those tough times together, your bond will be stronger and, you along with your man will be tougher from the experience
False. I gain more attraction to a man if he can show vulnerability because most men are afraid to show any kind of love to women in the first place. Relationships that are prideful and unloving donāt stand a chance of working out
Coughs... :P :P If I like a girl, I'd let out my emotions aha. I ain't publicly afraid to say that I sobbed, felt terrible, etc. ofc I won't go into too many details if the person wasn't close enough but yeah.. I'd always portray my emotions. :)
Thatās awesome to hear! Iāve heard some men get scared to let open their emotions because theyāre afraid of a woman throwing those things back in his face to make him feel weak. I think itās super sad. Guys have a right to feel emotional and have feelings. Whenever my boyfriend wants to cry I sit by right next to him and hug him. I donāt understand how women can see a man cry and think ālet me throw this moment back in his faceā
Awe you're so caring towards him. :) It's these little things that matter a lot. Wish you guys all the best aha. š And yeah expressing emotions ain't bad. Never.
I agree and thank you! āŗļø but yeah I think if anything showing emotions makes you a strong person/man. He used to be closed off to his emotions but Iāve explained to him, Iām more attracted to men that just realize vulnerability keeps a relationship together. I donāt want to be the only one emotional and affectionate in a relationship. Iām convinced that any girl that feels any different just wants to the one that always receives in the relationship
I can't disagree a bit here. You made him portray emotions openly and that's commendable. :) Mature partners are the ones that understand each other to the core and don't let their partners feel lonely. :)
Oh boy what a question, let me try to word the mess of an answer in my mind right now...
I think most women would agree that they would like their partner to be vulnerable, but I don't think that it would always be the best idea. It seems like some vulnerabilities are easier to accept, and it's usually because it relates in some way to the woman.
For example, it might be ok to say something like "I'm not good enough for you" as that insecurity is linked to her, but something like "I'm trash" or simply "I'm not good enough" suddenly becomes a lot more serious and may cause them to take a step back.
"I have been mocked and have had my emotions used against me by both men and women. Vulnerability is only good when exercised properly depending on who you are with. Do it the wrong way, you get punished."
Not sure who you quoted there but I agree with them. It's like sure be vulnerable, but you still have to be very careful and selective about it, because they may think they're ok with it, but they can't help it when they start thinking about or seeing you differently.
What if your partner said he struggles with pedophillic, murderous, or some other abhorrent thoughts? He's never ever done anything but always has those intrusive thoughts. I'm sure a few would support him in this struggle but many would not be able to.
This applies for both men and women though, if it's relatable to them then it's more acceptable. If he's worried about what I think about him that's not too bad, if he's worried about something but not about what I think then he is more likely to lose value or respect.
I'm sorry if it made no sense at all. I think everyone would want their partners to be vulnerable, but sometimes it's not what they expect and it can change what they think of the other person, unintentionally or intentionally.
A valiant effort here, Justin. But I think you're still stuck in your thinking. You're missing the forest through the trees.
It's true (not that you said it) that females want/would prefer their men to be strong. And it's a cross you all have to bear, far more than women. And you are in the weeds here, intellectualizing, rationalizing, maybe speaking from experience, or gut. And it's also true that everyone judges others based on what they can, and cannot, relate to, find in themselves.
But... there is no truly good/great relationship, without vulnerability. And even people who really love each don't get to parse through all their partner's traits, and pick and choose which to keep, and which to discard. What it comes down to is liking, loving, and respecting the majority of who and what that person is, and so when that person reveals things that are difficult to take, to accept, you acknowledge that no one is perfect, we are all flawed, and you still choose to ride it out with this person.
You're going to say something like, "Yeah, but at any time the thing you say, reveal, could be the final straw, the thing that pushes them over the edge, away from you." True. But what is also true - or maybe it's that this does not disprove the other - is that those deepest vulnerabilities, when expressed, shared, are sometimes the very things which bind you together, even more than before. Couples who have been through terrible things in their life... if they can come out the other end, although they are weary and weathered greatly by it (and I do not believe what doesn't kill you makes you stronger; that's only sometimes true, not a tried-and-true truth), it becomes something that connects them.
The same goes with friends and families, though we don't choose our family, we can choose the others. Giving up on each other, and a lack of commitment, are really the deeper issues in society today. You, like many men, see it as, "You can't be truly vulnerable with women. They can't handle it." But it's a misplaced diagnosing of the issues. There will always be great difficulties in relationships. People are the best, and bane of, our existence. We should not, however, continue to underestimate all people. We need to give them a chance - very, very, careful, calculated decisions on who to put our trust in. And I would also agree that many people are not worthy of that. And with some who are, it's simply not a match, in compatibility. There are two many differences. But I assure you, and all men, the takeaway here is not 'to be vulnerable is to set yourself up for failure, in the eyes of a woman', or something like that. All married men know (or most of them, anyway) how to do this, it. They've figured out the magic combination, and happened to find someone who was a good fit for them.
Don't put your trust in just anyone. Or your heart. But we women need to see who you are, in order to feel really connected to you. The fact that it doesn't always work out, and many relationships ultimately do have an end... there are so many reasons for that. But you can't truly be loved without this deep level of self-expression. It's a huge risk, for both people. Men and women both get crushed sometimes. But that's love. That's life. The wise ones realize it's just part of it all. You can't protect yourself from it, or prevent it from happening.
Even friends, great friends, will come and go. The time will come when it's no longer right. We put all these expectations, hopes, wishes, on others, what we want them to be. We put the most on our romantic partners. When it doesn't work out, we look for answers why. And "I was too vulnerable" often makes it on the list. But it shouldn't. It's not the takeaway from all of this. People are vulnerable because they're putting their chips on the table and asking, "Do you want me? Am I enough for you?" Many times, the answer will ultimately be no. But we do it, to find the one yes.
Sorry if my response was poorly written, but I absolutely agree that trust and vulnerability is essential to every relationship. There can be no depth and connection without it, and everyone would just interact at surface level.
I was trying to address the main question/statement that there can often be a loss of attraction when someone is a lot more vulnerable than the other person.
Even if the other person has expressed their desire for you to be vulnerable, you still have to watch out because what you share might be completely unexpected to them. It sucks but it's like something you always have to be careful about even though you shouldn't have to be.
I think what I was trying to express was what you covered in your second and third reply, how you must be wary of who to trust and if your relationship is strong enough to handle it.
I whole heartedly agree with the points you made, I guess it was a minor gripe about the question seeming like it was playing down the chances of your partner losing attraction to you due to this, because there's many factors at play that can affect how they feel about you. Vulnerability is important and necessary but I'm sure a lot of people have lost partners because they were too needy or insecure.
Not saying everyone is like this, of course we all deserve someone we can fully trust who loves us for who we are, but still gotta be wary coz it can happen.
Agree with you also that our biggest weakness is also our biggest opportunity to strengthen the relationship. Once you find someone you can trust, working through things together is something very beautiful. I think that bond is what everyone is looking for, that kind of love.
I hope I worded my reply coherently, thank you for reading my wall of text and for taking the time to reply!
And with regards to what I said above, adding that vulnerabilities that relate to them are easier to accept, I probably should have omitted that part as it made everything a lot more confusing.
Maybe the issue was/is that I distilled it down too much (for you, and some.) But I do that sometimes, very deliberately, to drive the point home, to avoid waffling, confusion, etc. Especially with pinks, if you give them open-ended questions, topics, and ask "Why?" they will give a whole variety of answers (which can be both nuanced and long-winded), and then the guys will say, "See, told ya, we're screwed, men." Something like that.
Not all men believe this. And judging by the poll, not all women feel this. I don't think it's as bleak as some men think. I think it's a definite misappropriation of complex issues. I think men have a really, really, hard time with vulnerability. (And understandably so, with the way society and culture is set up.)
This, what I said (all of it) is not a catch-all, to include all vulnerability, all insecurity, all mental health problems, and life problems. I think you're mistaking that. Deeply, deeply, wounded, or insecure, or anxiety-ridden, etc., type people, will not all find 'the one' to mend them.
I think men take issues, especially in the emotional and social worlds, and try to distill them down so much, and apply these 'rules' and methods. It makes life easier to manage if they can come to conclusions like this. That's their prerogative. But if they do that, they should not (but do) also proclaim these 'truths' to the rest of the world - like standing on a mountain top, or a soap box on the corner in the park... or now, on the internet. And guess which one is the most efficient, the most effective, at spreading gospel? You can reach literally millions of people this way. You can even start your own 'channel' or podcast, and then, people will follow, and organize, and look to increase their tribe.
The pink onlookers say, "Pffft. Those guys over there, they're crazy. They don't know..." and then the guys say, "Women lie. They saaay they want one thing, but they choose another." Which is, again, a massive oversimplification. Yes, there are SOME of those types; and, there are a bunch of girls, who at ONE time or another in their life, chose the 'wrong' type of guy, to have a some fun, maybe got their heart broke, and cried on the shoulder of some male 'friend', "Woe is me..." And some of those girls do it again and again, and cry, "There's no good men left", which is of course patently not true.
But it's all jumbled up together, and people picking sides, throwing snowballs over the fence at each other. And I'm just saying, 'no vulnerability, men!' is not the answer. Not even close. Every guy who's in a healthy, loving, relationship, knows that. (And sorry, you don't think NO vulnerability is the issue. I know you don't.) But unlimited vulnerability isn't ok either. Everyone has their limits of what they can handle; men included. For men, it's that intensity of the girl's emotions, her emotional range, her mood swings, her expectations, her longing for commitment and a future... it's those things that freak guys out (more so young than old, but really all men are wary), so exposing everything about who you are, what you want, what you need... of course that's a massive risk. We have to be whole, complete, people, ideally self-sufficient, etc., when we partner up. "You complete me" is a beautiful phrase (and I actually do believe in it), but that level of compatibility is hard to find. Yet, you only find it when you lay it all out on the table.
(I"m not debating with you. I think we mostly agree. I just got on a roll there again. Sorry!)
Don't be sorry! It's always a pleasure to read your responses, and I totally do the same thing when I'm absorbed in the topic or conversation.
Yeah it's not a good thing when people push opinions as facts with a clear bias. Unfortunately it's seems more abundant here on GaG than anywhere else, with people invalidating other people's opinions and doing things like deleting any comments that disagree with them.
Anyway yes I agree with your thoughts on vulnerability and relationships, and I understand the dilemma you face when trying to word a question so people don't misunderstand.
Thank you for the conversation and for keeping an open and non judgmental mind. It's truly a rare thing to find these days.
P. s I hope you find that level of compatibility you were describing above with your partner, and I hope someday I'll be lucky enough to find it too š
Iāve never seen it from this perspective, so I learned something new.
I've always forced myself to stay strong because I believed that I needed to be the stronger one, because I believed thatās just how things are supposed to me.
Like, as a man, thatās what Iām supposed to do.
But, after reading your post, it makes a lot of sense that women who demand strength from a man and recoil at the slightest vulnerability or weakness, actually want their man to be strong because it enables themselves to be weak.
(And itās okay be weak, as everyone starts there, both men and women. Itās just not okay to stay there and demand that your partner compensates.)
Where a dysfunctional dynamic can begin is when a woman starts making critical remarks about a manās masculinity when they arenāt strong 100% of the time, or demanding that a man āman upā when they are showing any sign of vulnerability or weakness.
Itās as if women are allowed to be human, but men must be held to standards above thatāto never show or have weaknessāwhich would be superhuman.
So men are punished by these women, when they do not meet superhuman standards.
When the ideal situation is that BOTH the man and the woman in a relationship are strong, and neither of them are entitled to being the only one allowed to be weak.
It all makes a lot of sense, looking back at everythingāitās like one of those not-so-common ācommon senseā moments.
Talk about a quick turnaround, @AmandaYVR. Wasn't expecting you to make a question surrounding this, kind of surprised me.
Once again I find it interesting that woman haven't commented on it, but it is a sight to see men agreeing with this. I am more ao curious to hear answers from women that answered yes to the question though.
Maybe the lack of answers from those that voted yes can be seen as who they are with their character and personality.
š. I've been feeling like this place is going downhill fast. It was either give up, or try once again to elevate with some more meaningful qs. I've had the idea for this q for a long time, but you were the final push. I thought about asking your permission to quote, but decided it was quicker and safer this way; and I was maxed out on character limit anyway.
The pinks rarely answer in any significant numbers. It's not just this q, but all qs, male-or-female-asked, almost irrespective of topics. Looks like we'll get no insight here. I didn't expect much. I made my point anyway.
All it does is show the quality of the woman when he breaks down. My school principal beat me for 6 years before I told my mom how bad it was. Fast forward: 12 years later I woke up after a bad dream and crawled to the bathroom and just sobbed curled up on the floor. She woke up and insulted me for being weak. Being broken and being weak are not the same. We were divorced within the year.
Fox hunting, the call you use to call out a fox or coyote sounds like an injured rabbit. The predators come running. That's when you know their true intent. If you break down, show your vulnerability, show that you're injured and they pounce... you now know the quality of their true love for you.
i mean i don't care if they are being vulnerable in fact, i like it because it means they trust me also, pls don't attack me in the comments, but i kinda like seeing a guy cry Never because of like real serious problem like somebody dying but just crying because he and I got in a fight and he got afraid that i might leave or whatever because it makes me feel like he really loves me and is afraid to lose me. And also, I don't know why but i just find it cute bc it's a side he usually doesn't show
It's very weak to loose attraction just because he expressed vulnerability. Since childhood, many men are taught vulnerability equals weakness and therefore men are not supposed to be vulnerable, and this is stupid if you ask me. Vulnerability is what connects us to other human beings. It is when we āexposeā something about ourselves whether that be experiences, emotions, feelings and so on.
Vulnerability to me, no matter the gender is actually a strength. In order to be a strong and healthy individual, vulnerability must take place with the people that you have built trust with. In doing so, one strengthens relationships, improves mental health, and improves quality of life.
I agree. How is anyone ever going to have a relationship if they can't be vulnerable with each other? He else are you supposed to build that bond of closeness?
Ladies: If a man is sensitive in the beginning of the relationship, it's for two reasons: 1. He's trying to prove to you that he's a compassionate soul and that he cares about you. 2. He's testing you to see if you're a compassionate soul as well. (No man wants to marry a bitch.)
That would be really cold if my SO did that to me. It takes courage to express your emotions. I had this issue my whole life and realized that was one of the things that sabotaged most of the relationships i had been in. It was only when I showed my feelings whether they were macho or not that my relationships improved.
I did that before. Tears and sobs when life decides to hit harder than usual. She was there with me. Then she ghosted me 2 weeks later. Not even a goodbye was said. Like stabbed with a steel dagger in the chest and left. I am guarding my soul. I have low expectations in moments like these. It is that moment, that it occurred to me, that I'm always on my own - even with a partner. I would say "never again" but I don't want to risk that in case I found a good woman. I would never do that to a good woman.
As usual, Ma'am you've nailed this to perfection. These are 3 qualities that make a woman far more attractive. :) :) Conforming to the societal stereotypes ain't something we should do. Have a splendid weekend! :)
This guy broke down crying in my arms tonightā¦ the one thing I said was that it was ok to cry. He was so expressive and opened up to me about everything.. Iāve seen him sober with better days and I was afraid to leave him like this because he seems unstable right now, but I had to because he was coming on to me. His sober self is very respectful and outgoing..
Lol I was sold on the line "There's no difference in Pain" 👏👏👏👏👏.
As I have said this many times on here women have the prevelidge to be vulernerable and share feelings at the cost of men sheilding themselves and her and to be invulernable which his not but still has to be a certain way to hold his biliefs to be strong
Seriously, it's like a double-standard. You want us to open up and talk to you and then, if we do and illustrate our humanity and imperfections and doubts, it instinctively turns off some women - probably the women who have submissive/rape fantasies.
I know it is. It pisses me off. It has a very negative effect on the world.
The only thing I can say is it is certain women/girls, not all (we do not appreciate being lumped in with them), and culture is changing. It's just not quick enough. As Obama (and perhaps others?) said, change doesn't happen in a straight line. I am to call to light some of the errant thinking and hypocrisies.
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