Women do have a natural fear of men of men they just met. Besides humor is there an easier way to disarm their fear fast?

[Anonymous]

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was younger was not understanding how most women have a natural fear of men they just met in romantic scenarios. It takes mental effort to understand they don’t judge interactions the same way I do. Even if I mean well they don’t know that right away. Although I am a good guy I was often eccentric at times and didn’t even realize it. Women who knew me well knew understood me. But that’s not the same for women who don’t know me well.

The thing was I am tall, athletic and had a “cute and innocent” look to me when I was younger. 80% of the ways I acted back when I was 24 would be creepy at my age nowadays but “cute and funny” back then. I’ve had to really carefully readjust how I interact with women.

For example I’m the curious type. If a woman has an interesting attire or is engaging interesting activity I will often watch she was is doing very closely and not have any inappropriate thoughts whatsoever. I remember a few years ago I saw a 125lb young women doing sets of 10-12 rows for 185lb deep squats (where your butt literally touched the ground). I was extremely impressed. I was NOT a checking her out sexually. She was attractive but that’s not at all the reason why I was staring at her.

I put up a social media post about how impressed I was and I had people calling me “a creep”. I was naive/stupid to post that (I took it down quickly) but it just really sucks.

Anyway besides being funny is there a quick way for a woman to know I am decent/non-threatening guy without having to make her laugh or taking the painstaking time to get to know her? Probably impossible.

[ManOnFire]

Women have this fear of men for the reasons you noted, you were a good guy and you had an innocent look. The female heart can be wicked and depraved in that it will judge these kinds of things in a man as something to be fearful of, but these same women will hookup with or be charmed instantly by men who do not have a nice or kind look, or men who are openly unpleasant or low character. They don't have any fears of them then.

[Asker]

Actually the adrenaline fight and flight response women have can be extremely sexually arousing for them. That’s why they have “rape fantasies”.

But I will never fulfill that fantasy for them and neither will you. Not going to gamble risking my entire life over it. But some guys do make that gamble, get rewarded for it and get away with it. But I could never do that.

This is BY FAR one of worst hypocrisies women have and just won’t own up to. By far.

[ManOnFire]

You are absolutely correct about all of that. I will never fulfill that fantasy, and don't want to either. I prefer to let women take those gambles with their lives, and they often find out how foolish it was to do it, while others ended up dead and by then it was too late to find out. Women will make the mistakes without you having to lift a finger.

[Asker]

They just don’t want to put the mental effort into checking and getting real with themselves. Not all of them. But too many.

Just look at provokees comment below. It’s completely one sided about throwing men in general under the bus. Look how generalized and naive it is. And her idea of a “gender equal” utopia is damn near impossible too.

The thing is some men really are white knighting up the way she wants below. But are they doing it for “gender quality”. Hell no. They are doing it to impress women for their own ends.

[ManOnFire]

I wouldn't think too much about her. She had flagged one of my questions about feminism last year and then ran off like a coward and blocked me. Which was fine, cowardice is common with these girls and I appreciate the blocking because it shows me their weakness, but trying to tear down a question just because you don’t like it is stupid.

But yeah, don't take that too seriously.

[Caroline91]

WTH?

[ManOnFire]

@Caroline91 What do you mean?

[Asker]

@caroline91just reading your comments I can tell you this one is over your head. You just don’t get it. I am looking for an answer that takes in consideration the position I am AND the position women are in. That takes real mental effort.

After posting this I was naive to believe any women would provide an answer of real substance. But I appreciate your feedback though. Have a nice day.

[Caroline91]

You asked: Besides humor is there an easier way to disarm their fear fast. Keeping your distance is the best way I know that a man can make me more comfortable... It may not be the fastest, but if I get a good feeling about you respecting that I don't know you, it could be a matter of just a few minutes before I am more comfortable around you. But, I'm just a woman who experiences these scenarios on a daily basis, so what would I know? lol You have a nice day, too.

[Caroline91]

@ManOnFire That comment was meant to come in under the comments above about women and rape fantasies. Why do men insist that women routinely have rape fantasies? I'm sure some do, but it is most likely not the "adrenaline fight or flight response being extremely sexually arousing for them." More likely, they are acting out and processing having been raped. There is nothing aroused in the fight or flight response except fear and desire to escape. Ask me. I'm a woman.

[ManOnFire]

@Caroline91 A lot of women do have rape fantasies though. Maybe not 100%, but I'm willing to bet 80%. Aside from that issue, he was talking about women being fearful of men they met even when the guy is a good guy. And he is right. But women are twisted and will not be fearful of the guys who truly are bad for them. That's wickedness in them to fear or despise goodness in men but have no qualms about mingling with a man they can clearly see is not good.

[Caroline91]

Well, thank you for explaining that to me. I have no doubt it’s what you believe. I just wonder what you base those beliefs on.

[ManOnFire]

@Caroline91 You basically can't say I'm wrong, in so many words.

[Caroline91]

@ManOnFire I’m actually not saying you’re wrong. I’m basing my opinion just on how I feel as a woman and discussions with female friends, but I have nothing but that to back me up. So, I actually am wondering if you have a good rationale for your opinion/beliefs on this subject. I am always open to the possibility that I could be wrong and am genuinely interested in your thoughts.

[ManOnFire]

@Caroline91 First, thank you for being honest and saying your opinion is based on 'how you feel' as a woman. Most women base a lot of what they think on how they feel and not what's actually the case, but you were honest in saying so. Something other women could learn from.

My opinion is based on actual experience. My own and also knowing the experiences of other men. What he talks about in his question is truth. You have a lot of women out there - but mostly the young and stupid ones - who will be fearful or concerned about guys who are upfront and real about being a good/decent guy, and he will even show her that. But these same dumb women will be quickly attracted to men they can clearly see are not good, or who is even openly disrespectful or bad. As I said, this is a depravity in the female heart to be worried about the guy who is good, but not the guy who isn't.

It is also an inner wickedness because a lot of women have a thing about wanting to spite the good man by choosing the bad one. Why would a heart hate what's good? This is wickedness.

[ManOnFire]

@Caroline91 So there was your explanation.

[Asker]

@manonfire a lot of these women who make stupid self sabotaging (and even dangerous) dating decisions usually had traumatic childhoods and/or daddy issues.

But there is a difference between understandable vs. acceptable. Men don’t get the excuse of making bad decisions because of “our feelings” and/or rough childhoods. We are held ACCOUNTABLE for our decisions no matter what our “feelings” are.

But too many women find shoulders to cry on for there stupid decisions. Not all women of course. Some were raised to be accountable. But again far too many.

If we want real gender equality then women need to be held the same standards that men are. For example if a woman decides to “have feelings” for a violent abusive asshole then just let her “follow her heart“. And when he burns her (which he will) then she’s got no one but herself to blame.

This isn’t all women of course. @caroline91 sounds like she has some common sense. But for the ones who don’t just let them suffer the cold hard consequences of their decisions for once. Let society tell them it’s nobody’s damn fault but their own.

[ManOnFire]

You've said the same thing I been saying for years. When men have traumas and act out because of them, people still think they're monsters. But when women do stupid shit because of theirs we're supposed to be understanding.

We need to stop letting them get away with being "emotional." Lots of women use that as an excuse to do the wrong things.

[Asker]

@manonfire yep

[Anonymous]

This natural fear is not natural, it's what shit stain feminists have fear mongered into their heads.. Especially since less than 2% are the bad ones. Not all men like the shit stain feminists say.

[DishLady]

A natural fear of men? I wouldn't say that... We're all just people.

Chivalry works better than humor, but if the girl is some kind of shut-in, buttoned up girl who is "AFRAID" of men... I don't know. I've never met a woman like that. A CHILD perhaps...

[provokeesmokee]

Yeah.

Police your peers in public. If a fellow man says something sexist, offensive, or misogynistic, call him out for it. Do it firmly and do it with authenticity.

You're not only going to improve your perception, you prove your social standing in your crew. You also improve your whole gender's perception.

Want men to be less disgusting to women? The best person to call out a sexist is someone of their own gender.

[Asker]

“ If a fellow man says something sexist, offensive, or misogynistic,”

Alright you are saying that “well if our culture was sexist and threatening to women in the first place then you wouldn’t have this problem”. So in other words it’s a “us vs them” holistic issue.

I can tell you right now that I could become a 24/7 male “feminist” and call out other men nonstop (justified or not) and it would never impact personal judgment I have to deal with when it comes to interacting with women interpersonally. Their natural fear is rooted in thousands of years of evolution. They need to access if I am threat to them or not. And all the modern progressive feminism has actually made women even more paranoid not the opposite. Isolated horror stories get much more attention in the news, on social media, etc. And not all women who tell these stories are always telling the truth either (Amber Herd is a great example). Your idea of a carefree gender equal utopia isn’t nor ever will be possible.

[Asker]

Also just curious how often women police each other when they see women themselves make misandrist and sexist comments towards men? I’ve seen them do it but it’s rare. And it’s usually only to protect men they already know and/or like. But they rarely police each other when a woman is unfairly sexist towards a man they don’t know (or find unattractive) even when they damn well know better that the woman’s judgment is wrong. Instead they give other women “a pass” because the woman was expressing her “feelings”. It’s like how a woman will label an unattractive man who did absolutely nothing wrong “a creep”. It’s how her “feelings” supercede how he feels in that scenario.

The worst is when a false SA/rape accusation happens. I notice self identifying “feminists” conveniently get quiet about it vs. being furious with the woman who did that. When in reality they should be the FIRST to speak up in those scenarios with absolute rage towards the woman who did that but they don’t. Amber Herd is a great example. To this day feminists are still protecting her.

[Caroline91]

@provokeesmokee I am so glad you said this. Spot on!

[Caroline91]

Keep your physical distance.

[Asker]

It’s funny you say that. Just recently I was chatting up a younger woman on a dating app (we are both verified and know each other real). Although she said straight up she was interested in meeting she kept flaking out last second. Yet she still kept texting often for the “virtual attention”.

So sure I can keep my “physical distance”’ no shit on that one. But I have ZERO interest in being someone’s digital pen pal.

I gave up on her.

[Caroline91]

Understandable, she was being a virtual "prick tease" and that's never ok. When I say keep your physical distance, I mean if I don't know you at all, don't come in too close on me if you don't want me to feel threatened. Chances are you're bigger than I am and you are definitely stronger and I know it... so stay back until I've gotten a chance to know you a bit and am comfortable. Then my personal space will not be as big.

[Asker]

Alright that’s a better response @caroline91

The thing I was well aware of being a random older guy on a dating app should be looked at with caution to a certain extent. Our conversation was initially geared to a hook up. It was sexual but not dirty. No nudes either.

Then she explicitly said (and she said it first) she would like a friends with benefits. Her idea not mine. But that’s actually perfect considering I enjoy honest conversation AND we know where each other stands sexually.

Then she kept making last second excuses to bail when I asked her to hang out. But she kept texting me. I did send her a few honest pics (not sexual) of myself. She knew exactly what I looked like.

Finally (after 3 weeks) I politely said “hey I need to know if we are going to meet or not. At this point you have to know I’m fully legit.”. She said she definitely wanted to meet up. I then said “well can you let me know a good time so I can make plans”. She went silent after that except when she sent me a “happy 4th” text. I wished her happy 4th back and deleted her number the next day she didn’t respond.

[Asker]

Case in point why is that for so many women what they “say” they want is rarely what they REALLY want. She’s far from my first negative experience either. And I’ve had women I’ve met organically IN PERSON do this bullshit. Including a girl who I ran into often at a gym a few months ago. Also a barrista i knew at a Starbucks. In both scenarios I talked to both women several times prior before I asked for their number. They knew I was honest and not a threat to them.

I’ve also had random in the past come straight over my house and go to town when I was more aggressive verbally about I wanted. When I was the opposite of what women “say“ they want.

Bottom line I’m sick of being manipulated OR being the manipulator. It’s always a zero sum game. I know I got less room to be as assertive as I used to given I’m older. The “creep” factor is a growing risk despite not really being a bad guy. But still back when I WAS bad (not abusive/dangerous but manipulative) THAT worked.

[Caroline91]

I don't know how old you are, but I'm not sure whether it matters or not. I think both women and men do versions of what you are describing and it shows a great lack of integrity. I think people often just don't like to say No upfront so find other ways to not get involved. I, personally, never behaved that way. But then, I married an older guy when I was 22 so have been out of the game for 10 years. When I see someone, especially a woman, acting like that I am very likely to call her out on it. I once called a close girlfriend of mine out because she was stringing a guy along who so obviously really wanted to be with her. When I pointed out what she was doing and told her she needed to either clearly friend zone him or give him a real chance, she decided she couldn't friend zone him and they got married last month... lol. I'm sorry you've been up against all of this stupidity. It sounds like you are doing everything right, except maybe looking in the right places for better options. I wish you luck and happiness because we all deserve that when our heart is in the right place!

[Asker]

“ When I pointed out what she was doing and told her she needed to either clearly friend zone him or give him a real chance, she decided she couldn't friend zone him and they got married last month.”

Good. GOOD. But I feel like women (and some men) are getting the WRONG advice from people. They are being told what they WANT to hear vs. what the NEED to hear.

If you weren’t straight up with your friend then she would of eventually drove off her would be husband via her own self sabotage. He would of been deeply resentful and even misogynistic after being strung along and disrespected like that.

Men don’t have an infinite amount of energy and patience for that crap. We get jaded and for good reason. But thankfully she came to her senses. But I wonder what she would of done if nobody called her out? Can’t women think for themselves?

Anyway thanks for your response. And yes I knew having a friends with benefits with a younger woman (she’s in her early 20s) who I met via a dating app is long shot. But it was disappointing given she is very local and she wasted my hope and time because she liked the virtual attention. Women have no idea how much men resent that crap. I’ve had women close to my age to that bs as well. Not all of them grow out of that crap.

[Caroline91]

You are right about people not being told what they need to hear and good friends need to be willing to do that.

[Asker]

Generally there is higher expectation on men to think for themselves. To be accountable for their own decisions. They also generally have fewer romantic options (when all else is equal to their female equivalent) and also get fewer second chances if they screw up. That’s why we are less likely to call each other out on right or wrong choices with women.

Not saying men don’t self sabotage themselves and make mistakes. They do. But we also know nobody is going to feel sorry for us when we do. We are expected to have self control over our emotions.

[Caroline91]

Gosh, I'm at a loss for words... Only temporary lol. I come from a family where the woman all think for ourselves and we are held accountable just as much as the men in the family. This goes back generations that I am aware of, at least to the mid-1800s according to the family stories. We all need to have self control of our emotions to deal with life in a mature, rational way. Yes, women are given more leeway to express emotions and men are expected to be more stoic. I also think there does tend to be a natural tendency to be that way on the part of each gender, but it can and does get taken to extremes. I remember seeing my dad cry a few times and comforted my brother on a few occasions. None of the women in the family have ever been extreme cryers... we just roll up our sleeves and get on with it, right next to our men. So, I guess maybe I'm not the best person to give opinions on this subject.

[Asker]

@caroline91 nah it’s fine. You actually put the time and mental effort into considering my POV. You even had the introspection to admit you might not be the right person to give advice on certain matters. I respect that and I respect you.

I actually had horrible female role model growing up unfortunately. My mother was very beautiful (which gave her more power then she will ever know). But she also came from a family where she saw her own mom “wear the pants” with my late grandfather which was very unusual for the time era (in a conservative community too).

Then my dad had chivalry pounded into his at a young age even more so then other young men for that time era. He lost his infant sister to SIDS and my late grandfather developed this complex to yell and berate at his sons to PROTECT their sisters and women in general at all costs.

So this unfortunately enabled my mom to repeat her mother’s behavior of controlling my dad. And my dad is no wimp. But he unfortunately was more receptive to that he given he was brutally taught to kiss the woman’s ass at all costs since he was a young boy.

And then they both pounded that bullsh*t into my head (I am the oldest). So I grew up not knowing the difference of a woman who is just sh*t testing me (but still had interest) vs just plain not having any respect for me. So I ended up getting exploited by shitty women (of all ages by the way), I grew resentful and then I get an attitude “well you can either be the predator or the prey” and then I learned how to be manipulative myself. But that’s not fulfilling either. And yes I am “too old” to be like that at this point in my life. I get that.
.

[Asker]

But still it’s such a pain in the ass to be “cautiously” optimistic all the f*cking time with women. I wasn’t betting the house or anything with that last girl who fell through. Yeah she’s much younger and it was on a dating app. I’ve encountered much worse then her in the past.

She’s not what I ultimately need anyway. But she would of been perfect for the situation I am currently in (which is another story). It’s disappointing I couldn’t of had a female friend where we could of met our each others needs emotionally & sexually for the interim and do it honestly. But of course she tried to manipulate me for her own ends of course (a dependable “virtual buddy” friendzone bs) and it’s always seems to be “on me” to watch out for women who try to pull that crap.

It’s just so tiring to always have my guard up. Tiring to be expected to take initiative but not overdo it and look like “a creep”. Tiring that I am expected to take risks and stick my neck out and so women take that for granted.

Anyway thanks for hearing me out

[Caroline91]

Sure. We all need to take the time to listen to each other. And you were kind enough to listen to me, too. I also grew up with a lot of manipulation. Somehow, I caught on and opted out by always letting the other person "win" but I do have the ability to be one of the best little manipulators you will ever come across... I just choose not to. I decided to just be my authentic self from about the age of 15 and can honestly say, it's gotten me into all kinds of trouble! lol, But at least it is the real me living my life and learning the lessons I need to. It's allowed me to have some wonderful, meaningful friendships and a happy marriage. I highly recommend just being you. That way, you'll know who really likes and values you and can let women/any other people who don't respect and value you just pass on by. It's not easy, but I know I find it rewarding to just be me and find the other people out there stumbling through life just being themselves. It's been nice talking with you!

[Asker]

Thanks @caroline91. However there is one major difference you have to understand. You are a woman and the world treats you very differently then it treats your equivalent male counterpart. Especially different when it comes to romance. It’s not apples to apples. And with all due respect women really DO have a major advantage in romance when all else equal particularly in the early stages of dating.

Now I don’t ever expect that to change. I believe it’s mother nature’s way of giving women power since they are at a disadvantage in other areas compared to men. But femininity in itself is highly valued in society.

Jordan Peterson once famously quoted “Men fall in love with they see: that’s why women wear make up. Women fall in love with what they hear: that’s why men lie.”

Not to say I condone lying and manipulation. But for a man to even get his foot in the door with a woman he’s up against much more then vice versa (when all else is equal). He’s tested more. Just saying “oh be yourself and be honest” is a much taller order for a man in that scenario vs a woman. Women are making romantic decisions with their emotions. And even if the man is her best option the context of how “the truth” Is delivered to the woman might lead to instant rejection if it rubs her “emotions” the wrong way. Women are and have always been pickier. Men usually are more or less flexible in the early stages if he already likes her. Less likely to get cold feet then vice versa.

Anyway I know I said my goodbye earlier. But really women could do a lot better job at acknowledging and RESPECTING of what men have to go through. You get it but a lot go women don’t. And it would be nice if more women checked each other on this like how you checked your friend. Most seem unable to figure that out on their own. What’s even worse is many are now being told to “indulge their emotions” as “their truth” like POS Oprah once put it.

Anyway for real that’s my last rant lol. Nice chatting.