No. And I don't agree with the term incel. I think it assumes the future too easily while also assuming that the person has tried everything to improve themselves to whatever standards they're being held against.
I much prefer terms that better align with a person's looks level. Stuff that's more fixed at birth. Like sub-5, normie, or chad level.
I think that sub-5's could be among those that are "beyond saving." But ofc I wouldn't agree unless someone defined what they specifically meant by "beyond saving" & if it made sense to a certain goal they are trying to achieve.
So since "beyond saving" can get so subjective & disruptive, I'm more inclined to say that "sub-5's" have it the hardest in terms of finding a partner. "Normies" have it next hardest. And "Chads" have it the easiest.
While trying to attract a mate, it's important to know where you fall in the looks tier hierarchy so that you can know what to compensate for & by how much. For instance, chad on the right wouldn't have to worry about being funny or having an extremely good personality as much as the two on the left would. His game would be his looks.
But ofc, for the guys on the left, their sucess & how easily it comes depends on who they're aiming for. So if they don't want to gamble as much, they might have to settle. And if they don't want to settle and they want girls know they're of high worth (and could easily score chad), then ofc they're gonna feel like they're beyond saving.
Geuss it depends if they ever meet women that don't treat them like shit.
I. Not really an incel anymore, 8ve got a girlfriend now and obviously we do it, and I try not to ever paint any group based on my own lived experiences, but when I've only ever had sex with one girl and can easily count all the women who treated me like a fucking human on one hand it's kind of hard for me to really respect women.
Hell let's start the clock at my adult live to make it fair so from 18 till now,12 years, i traded nudes with one girl and had one date but it didn't go past that,, I fingered one girl on a one night stand and got nothing in return so that was rude of her, then found my girlfriend d and finally lost that damn virginity. That was all within a year, one year ago. So yeah 3 girls gave me a chance and treated me like a man or a human in 12 fucking years. So I don't have a lot of reason to respect them, in the year of not being single zero women have tried approaching me so again not looking good and on top of that finally having sex now I can see that all the people who said sex is overrated where kind of right, so now I know I would not put up with much shit just to get laid.
Respect is earned and women haven't done a lot to earn it from me. To be fair I think a lot of it has to do with the city I'm in, I went on a 3 day road trip when I was single and had 2 girls interested in me, so these big city girls may just be shit but still.
If I end up single again I think I'd be done, no dating, I'd just be fucking the easiest of sluts and hiring prostitutes
Opinion
25Opinion
"@stormmistress women generally try to “date up” and any of them have higher expectations for the guy they date then they have for themselves. If they truly accepted their “equal” then there would be a mate for virtually everybody. But instead 30 to 50% of women go for the top 5 to 10% of men."
Bingo. This is called "hypergamy":
"@Curmudgeon Why though? Any guy can find a girl as long as he’s a decent and warm hearted fellow who has confidence in himself. Most guys I’ve dated were not conventional attractive men but they were sweethearts and nerdy like me and I loved them for that. They were themselves and happy."
Uh, no any guy can't. See Hypergamy above.
"Jaded? Easy because they used to have the power and now that they can’t control us like they used to and get away with it they are bitter and upset. You wish feminism never happened because you lost your control and you’re still butt hurt about it."
And now you are denying hypergamy, when it is as plain as day. And Opinion Owner nails it with his response, which sadly you blow off.
So what is and is not an “incel”? Radical feminists actually belong to groups and are well organized. An incel might belong to a Reddit thread.
Anyway there are some guys out there who are constantly full of hate and anger no matter what happens. This of course doesn’t make them attractive to anybody. There is a much larger percentage of guys who would of likely been happily married in a different time era but had the misfortune of being raised in feminist dominated society. These guys usually have some struggles like you mentioned above (socially awkward). They also might be just be physically unattractive or jaded from way too many bad experiences with women.
I've been been in three LT relationships in my life. The longest one only lasted a year. I have had dozens of short term flings. However I got to admit I’m very jaded from a multitude of horrible experiences. All three if my last LT relationships ended horribly. No relationship “ends well” per sé but this was next level crap i had to deal with.
I don’t want to go down the incel “rabbit hole” here. However I truly believe that most women don’t have the slightest clue of understanding that dating for men is radically different (and much harder) then it is for themselves when everything else equal. I just wish women in general could make an honest effort to recognize that. But they don’t because it neither matters to them nor do they care.
THIS critique of @StormMistress, however, is spot on. All too many young ladies have NO IDEA how stacked the deck is against young men today.
@magiusX26 I DO find, however, that it does get better for middle aged men, relative to middle aged women anyway.
@Curmudgeon Why though? Any guy can find a girl as long as he’s a decent and warm hearted fellow who has confidence in himself. Most guys I’ve dated were not conventional attractive men but they were sweethearts and nerdy like me and I loved them for that. They were themselves and happy.
@magiusX26 Maybe you just haven’t met the right girl then? I mean there are 3.8 billion of us lol
well am running out of time. no point trying once i can't enjoy it. at the rate things are going, looks like her appearance won't happen till am about 80 to 100. doubt i'll be able to actually enjoy it then. and to be honest i'll probably be so tired and jaded by then that there is a very high chance of me telling her to fuck off making it even more pointless.
@magiusX26 Well how about focus on other aspects of life? Things you enjoy? Sex isn’t the be all end all. You can live a perfectly content life without sex. I have it’s honestly easy. Though granted I’m not really looking so there’s that haha.
@stormmistress women generally try to “date up” and any of them have higher expectations for the guy they date then they have for themselves. If they truly accepted their “equal” then there would be a mate for virtually everybody. But instead 30 to 50% of women go for the top 5 to 10% of men.
Back to the “incel” label that you started throwing around. Did you really a believe there was a high percentage of single, frustrated and lonely men now as there were in the 50s? What all changed in the last few decades? Feminism.
While on the surface having more women enter the workforce, act independent, etc. would in theory seem like a good thing. But these women also want to gratify many more of their selfish impulses including being picky, having inflated expectations for men, etc. It últimately harms them as they get too old to have children. But in the meantime there a ton of collateral damage and that’s ignored and forgotten about men.
Why do you think so many guys out there have such a jaded attitude towards modern women? Do you ALL of them are just whiners or maybe they have legitimate problems trying to play a game that is stacked against them?
Jaded? Easy because they used to have the power and now that they can’t control us like they used to and get away with it they are bitter and upset. You wish feminism never happened because you lost your control and you’re still butt hurt about it.
@magiusX26 Lol I’ll bet it wasn’t from choice though 😂
@magiusX26 uh huh sure 😉
“ You wish feminism never happened because you lost your control and you’re still butt hurt about”
Can you please explain to me what “power” myself or any one else on this thread ever had over women at any point in our lives?
What you just said right there sadly answers everything I need to know about the kind of person who I am dealing with. Really it does.
Myself and the other guys on this entire thread are going to place you into “she’s one of those types” now. You are not looking for resolutions. You are not looking to hear guys out. You think we are all just a bunch of so called “misogynists” when in reality none of us hate women but we do hate women who hate us.
Look at what I wrote towards end of my original post on this. I wrote “ I truly believe that most women don’t have the slightest clue of understanding that dating for men is radically different (and much harder) then it is for themselves when everything else equal. I just wish women in general could make an honest effort to recognize that. But they don’t because it neither matters to them nor do they care.”
To you we are all just “butt hurt” but in the reality you don’t give two shits about men’s issues because it neither matters to you nor do you care.
People like @stormmistress CREATE incels. There are consequences to your attitudes towards men. But all you care about is what short term benefits you. Smdh.
Nice essay dude lol. Power oh I don’t know how about we were treated as second class citizens until the 1980’s. Our role in life was to marry and have kids. Men decided that for us. Our opinions meant little. We were shamed and branded damaged goods if we had sex before marriage. If we wore anything revealing we’d be slut shamed and ostracised. We would suffer in silence from DV because the law wouldn’t do shit to help us. If we were raped most times we would never get justice for it and the guy would get away with it.
But yeah you keep playing the victim you guys have had it so hard in comparison to us in the past.
@stormmistress there will come a day where you will completely regret your outlook on men. You are fairly young at 30 but time is no more on your side than it is on mine. But seriously castigating men as all inherently patriarchal and oppressive (so modern feminism is a “good” thing) is only giving you are a short term sugar high.
The great gift a woman possesses is the ability to create and nurture life. There will come a day where that will no longer be possible for you.
Not all women want children you know. And I have some of my eggs frozen to be on the safe side anyway.
@stormmistress well best of luck. Also best of luck “getting through” to “incels” by being so narrow minded and self absorbed in your thinking.
But then again who cares right? The only men you seriously care about are guys who can benefit you somehow (you find them attractive, they have money, they make great orbiters, etc). As for the all the rest of the guys out there just go ahead and continue to treat them like shit. Who cares about understanding their POV. Famous author Stephen Covey published a famous book “Seek first to understand before being understood”. Good advice. But I guess that doesn’t apply to you (and feminists in general).
I think a lot of them really, really to work on self improvement and the same can be said about the women that are in the same boat. Some of them might even need to look into working with a life coach. Because if there is one thing humans are good at is adapting. The downside is that we can adapt to the negative aspects of life and a extremely bad situation we find ourselves in. We can get to a point where a being in a negative situation is a hell of a less scary and uncomfortable then not being in it.
People also need to understand that the internet does makes it really easy to surround yourself with negativity. So disconnecting yourself from it and spending sometime outside is honestly a good idea. Because it can help you from being overwhelmed by the negativity you are bringing into yourself via the internet.
People can learn how to be more comfortable talking to and relating to other people, Sometimes it just takes time and them figuring out what works for them.
And there's a lot more to getting and keeping a girlfriend than just looks and being able to talk to them. The most important thing is their own happiness and being comfortable with themselves.
Even if they do get into a relationship they turn out to be Cuckolds.
Go on the Naughty section of Reddit and there are tons of sub-reddits for cuckolding and when I lived in the SF Bay, I would be the Bull for tons of couples. The dudes actually accepted their role as inferior cucks and would let me do whatever I wanted with their girl. I see incels either staying single their entire lives or ending up as cucks.
The only way to "save" them would be to offer actually helpful, concrete advice to enable their ascension dating market value. This will including maximizing their looks, learning social skills, aggressive practice of flirting and approaching women, etc. This is not easy, however, these men need more than empty platitudes if you don't want them to become extremists.
No, confidence can grow, its ironic that the guys that are usually really good at charming women are actually not the type of guy most girls want. They just don't realise it until afterwards.
So, you're not talking about actual incels but guys that are more likely to be one? Yeah it's worrying... They're rapidly increasing in numbers and got some real heat...
Save them for bad winters.
keep in the basement and throw on fire to keep warm.
I've never had to much luck w woman but i dont hate them for it
I'm not sure, but if these guys don't really hold on to their standards, they are likely to give too much value to a partner and end up with someone beneath them.
I wouldn't waste time trying to "save" incels. They're just not worth your time.
some cam be saved but saddly others will fester. its a case of "you can't save everyone/them all"
Most INCEL Men I've encountered are redeemable. Many are turned off by those that have committed acts of violence. I saw that and I beat a hasty retreat.
The real question is, are you? You seem to have a lot of hate in your heart.
Nope I’m actually a pretty happy and loving person.
Whatever you need to tell yourself. 😁
Believe what you wish lovely 😊
I will and I'll continue to be happy. And you'll continue to make hateful posts because you think it's going to make you feel better for some reason. Just saying, there's a better way. Face your demons and become a better person.
Damn you triggered or something 🤣
Nice reverse psychology... isee what you did there. You try to paint me as the one with the problem so as to hide yours lol. Problem with that is there's one glaring mistake. You're the one who asked the question. Not me.
Actually, Anonymous, I have to give @StormMistress kudos and credits for this statement: "Keeping mind I’m not talking about the radical women hating nut bags. I’m more talking awkward guys who just have never had much luck with women but are still decent people at heart." If she was an evil bitch with lots of hate in her heart, she would not have started out with that disclaimer.
I used to be an incel. But then I saw through my BS.
People change
I’m still single but like I don’t feel any bitterness towards women.
Once they have sex, their hate will dissipate into nothingness lol
I have faith in them.
Yes, its called improv classes.
Hopefully they will meet their female equivalents.
@Gal67 No, not of course. Your definition of feminism is probably 3rd wave man haters. Mine is not. Feminism in the true sense is about egalitarianism. The female equivalent is exactly the same as StormMistress outlined for men: "women who just have never had much luck with men but are still decent people at heart." Funny how the new wave equates feminists as being the female version of incels.
Well, I don't hate women, so I guess there's hope.
❤️❤️❤️
Not sure. That is a good question.
No but it not you job at the same time
More red meat and hard work.
Yeah, nothing more to say
yeah
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