Watch or read Far From the Madding Crowd... the first realistic romance film I've ever seen, where a woman rejects an older wealthy gentleman & a loving devoted farmer for a military bad-boy who ends up marrying, then when his ex returns, telling his wife he loved her more than he ever loved his wife, to which she replies (paraphrasing as I don't remember the exact line) "nobody can ever love you like I do" & begging for him back. In the end, only after he's shot dead by the older gentleman, does she marry the hard working, honest, reposible, noble "nice guy" farmer she rejected initially because she "didn't love him" - many, especially modern women, as with music, books, etc. it's no longer about substance, art, quality - but an aphrodisiac - how big a emotional "hit" they can get off something (or someone, utliized as if they were an object for their ability to feed momentary emotional urges at, often total, expense of long-term value, quality, meaning, or fulfillment).
Here's the full film if interested... it's one of the only romance/relationship films that will accurately train your perceptions in alignment to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_c2DJZXmmI
Complicated but most women crave challenge and mystery. It seems like the only women who really like nice guys are control freaks. They know they will always get their way with the nice guy.
To be fair I once dated a girl who was “too nice”. I wasn’t used to it and I used to go home and pound my head against the wall in self hatred and self disgust at the fact it turned me off. But I constantly checked myself not to take advantage of how she treated me. I will take a nice girl Over a bitchy girl any day.
Long story short that “nice girl” did a compete 180 and cheated on me and later treated me like I was less than human to make herself feel better. She went completely in the wrong direction.
Anyway back to “nice guys”. This is complicated but it’s a combination of old school chivalry being a toxic brainwashing mix with modern feminism brainwashing. Young boys are taught to be chivalrous towards women because in a far gone time era most women appreciated that. Now they are being guilt tripped by feminism if they act masculine.
Most “nice guys” weren’t born nice guys. It’s childhood brainwashing and confusion.
Because some women lead boring lives and so therefore put a lot of pressure on a man to bring that excitement to thier life and when it doesn't happen he's dumped because he wasn't exciting enough.
If thier life was exciting and they took responsibility for making it so. There wouldn't be so much pressure for men to be the ones to bring this to the table and she would have more options.
So as this responsibility has been put on men to exclusively provide this there is no way logically for them to be able to appreciate loving, kind hearted guys.
I was just looking at all the comments. Apparently quite a few of these “nice guys” feel very bitter about not being appreciated by women. I understand that many have been hurt and have reasons for their bitterness but I don’t believe they’ve been hurt by the user posting this thoughtful post. I appreciate the nice guys too but probably better just to remain anon and keep that to myself since most of these “nice guys” commenting don’t apparently a wanna hear it from any woman I guess.
I know like I was surprised by the bitter responses. This thread was meant purely as a wholesome lift me up one and so many guys are taking it really badly. :(
Opinion
97Opinion
Because in western culture a man who is kind, loving, upright, etc. is deemed as unattractive for masculinity. Women - excuse me, I mean girls - try to use the "nice guys" comeback as an excuse for why they hate kind and decent men but they will still hate them even when men are not proclaiming themselves to be nice.
The issue comes down more to the fact that a lot of women's hearts are unclean and want things/men they know they shouldn't be attracted to, so they disguise their defense of this as wanting men who are "confident," knowing well that there are plenty of strong, masculine, confident men who don't have to be bad or disrespectful to be a man.
What do you mean our hearts are unclean?
@StormMistress Unclean in that a lot of women of today are harping on men for actually being decent, kind, and upright. Only an unclean heart would see such goodness in a person as bad, weak, unmasculine, or even prudish, because deep down a lot of women know their own character is not decent or upright, so they want to put down men who are and raise up men who aren't. Subconsciously these women know they aren't good enough to be with the decent, upright men, and try to play it off as if the "confident" badass type guys are prizes. These women's own hearts are so messed up that they don't even know what's good or right in picking a man.
@ManOnFire I’ve read your response a couple of times today. It makes so much sense to me, this is one of the reasons I love this app. You learn something new about yourself everyday! Thank you for posting!
@Miss_cupcakes Interesting. Glad to know I helped? Lol.
@StormMistress I didn't take your post as it being malicious. I simply answered as to why good guys are unappreciated like you said.
Many guys are just straight of selfish and they don't have confidence they don't know how to appreciate because they were never taught that they don't know how to say thank you because it makes him look like they're week I think they would rather be the man whatever that means if guys do something like that they're afraid that they will look weak and that is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard but I wash my friends do this all the time and it's like they just don't give a fuk and I know they do they just don't know how to say thank you they were never taught that
And the sad part is they've never even taken a look at it to try to teach themselves that in order for us to understand anything in this world we have to experience it and you guys aren't going to allow themselves to experience things like this they're going to continue being a jackass
Loving and kind hearted are minimum requirements for being a decent human - not "defining characteristics" of a good partner.
If all a guy is is a minimally decent human, he's not gonna have a lot of luck.
That's like walking to your fridge every day and thinking you can run a sub-6 marathon.
It's no unappreciated, it's just literally the bare minimum.
What's the ambition, the personality, the interests? What drives this guy? Why is he interesting?
"He's kind hearted" and that's it doesn't really have a lot to offer.
This mentality you have is fair only if YOU yourself go above and beyond to not have the bare minimum. So many women have these standards for men they themselves do not even live up to. So unless you actually are a very special person yourself (in your words: can run a sub-6 marathon, are interesting, and have a great personality), you have no right to expect this from men.
It's like a lazy fatzo who refuses to date girls unless they are in perfect shape.
Yeah, of course you'd want to go above and beyond the bare minimum for your partner. You love them, don't you?
I know what my life is about. Lazy men like the two I dated before literally cannot keep up with me - all they wanted to do was stay home and play video games, while complaining about their dead end jobs without doing anything to improve their situations.
Meanwhile, I've changed careers, have two certifications in progress, and have nearly doubled my salary. On top of this, I've progressed in my martial arts career and held a stable DnD group for over 3 years.
Being nice is the least my partner should expect of me. They can expect being treated to fantastic meals when I try cooking more advanced things, going out to fun experiences, and a good standard of living (I'll admit, wish it could be higher but hey, inflation and housing).
I expect effort. Because I put in effort.
As long as you yourself put effrot, that is what matters. I have noticed that you brought career into this. Do keep in mind that men, unlike women, do not put much care into a partner's career. While women find that a crucial aspect in a man's life. Men look at other qualities that a woman possesses such as her heart, her loyalty, whether she is in shape, whether she doesn't bring him headaches, whether she takes care of the home, whether she truly wants to take care of him, supports him in his missions in life, etc. So be careful in using your efforts in your career to make a point. Because men do not care as much as you would care.
That's fine, I'm not into men. I look for these regardless of my partner's gender identity.
Aggressive dominant assholes get the most attention and are the most public about their personal lives. The person with the highest body count has the lowest self-esteem, just like the highest bully is the most scared inner child in the room doing the best adaptation to self defense from their parents that they know how to do. Is the average woman going to pay more attention to the Chad who rolls up in the current model BMW and forces everyone to notice him or the guy who gets to work on time every day and stays out of everyone’s way who drives a Ford Focus? That’s just evolutionary biology, women are subject to it just like men are.
It seems to me that "nice guys" have a kind and generous soul. They are easy to get along with and flexible. They will bend over backwards to make the other person feel comfortable.
With that being said, most people want what they can't have. It's easy to get a nice and kind guy. When something is too easy it's not appreciated. There are books about "Why do men choose bitches" and "Why do women choose bastards."
It's sad.
Why? I believe most of it is I’m not seen as particularly “cool.” I’m short and ugly and don’t pull in enough cash compared to a lot of guys, so I’m basically ignored.
I try to be open to things they might like, (without simping and doing whatever she wants all the time). But it’s all one sided, and most women just dump on most of my date ideas, and it doesn’t last. That gets frustrating. I try to get to know them, but when it comes to trying something I might like to show them (without complaining and trying to manipulate into getting their way), they won’t do it. So ok, it just keeps failing, even before the first date.
My dear friend that life and life is rude with us boys. mostly girls like those guys who never respect them they always use them and their feelings but still girls always find love in those guys and when the breakup those guys then came to guys like us. If we try to connect them with her or make her feel special or when we are in love with them then suddenly their ex came in their life again and girls leave us alone and never think once they are doing same mistake with us whome their ex has done to them. And then us guys always afraid of love and never found our love.
I don’t want classify this way because I will seem like a pompous guy. But even if a girl considers me this way I’m going to be friend zoned regardless. I don’t drink, I don’t do drugs, I don’t toy with heart and I don’t party and that’s normalized which turns on girls. I’d rather die alone watching a beautiful sunset behind the mountains and I return to God. Once I meet God in the hereafter and God says I’ll give you a spouse in heaven. I will tell God I’ll be willing to wait 1 million years and just appreciate heaven on my own.
Sooo to girls who thought I was not good or a simp when I tried to care, gave you space, didn’t pursue you like a sexual dog and gave you respect, your pain was to motivate me and accomplish my goals (finishing grad school, getting in better shape, travelling, and more).
I don’t toy with her heart*
They kindest nicest guys are my type absolutely find them the most attractive. Caring about me 🥰 makes me happy. I care about them too
Loving and kind-hearted guys ARE appreciated. But if you are talking about relationship context, then it depends on both parties.
Your love language and consistency are both very important in deciding this. If your partner is as giving as you, then you would usually feel appreciated. Otherwise, if the relationship is pretty one-sided, then one party is bound to feel unappreciated.
Most of the time these men are only appreciated when a woman is old and less attractive and looking for an agreeable, stable partner she knows she can manipulate and walk all over. This relationship is not born out of love or appreciation but survivability and giving into social pressures of not being the odd one out among her social circle that didn't get married.
This question makes me happy and angry at the same time. Thank you for giving the boys some love, because I just came from yet another gender war question. We have enough of those so thank you <3
Angry because I heard 'Where have all the good men gone?' Are those people a good person if they fail to recognize the good men around them?
I think that women prefer to have a challenging relationship than one with a nice guy who will not get her mad or will not challenge her decisions fearing that she might get mad at him. Also women tend to look at men as their own little project, where they tell them what to do (what to wear, how to act etc...) So uf the project is already complete, then things will get boring to them. That's how I see it
m I have always been appreciated.. and the vast majority of good great men I personally know, they are appreciated very much as well
I actually don't know anyone that is not... personally, of course
There is a fine line between being loving/nice and getting taken advantage of by manipulative people. This is true for either sex. There are people who gravitate toward jerks or get bored with someone who doesn’t need to be changed. I learned to avoid women in that category. I have found that a lot of women in their 30s and 40s really appreciate a kind man, so long as the man is also stable and hard working.
My brother is one of those guys too nice, his wife is like a controlling man telling him what to do and he’s like a puppet can’t speak up for himself. He has to obey her every word. He don’t act like a man he just is a wimp. Does anything she demands. He acts like a girl. Weak.
I don't know, I think we need a really good PR manager to get us a foot in the door, so we actually have a chance to demonstrate those qualities. Kindness and sensitivity and emotional intelligence are such 'quiet' traits, that in today's noisy world they're so easily passed over. And if you try to be more explicit in saying how you value kindness, then women assume you're being a 'Nice Guy™' and therefore must be hiding some shit.
Sad to say but they tend to be boring🙂
No really, i like a good guy but i like to feel like a woman, taken care of, dominated/lead and so on.
Most caring guys are just too caring. I won't break😅
Not saying i want assholes either. I want a man who is a man
You, that really just you hon. How ever this is a great example of how toxic masculinity affects men and women...
Nothing to do with toxic masculinity. I think you misunderstand what type of guys i mean.
We all have great caring guys as friends, while we won't date them. Because they dont excite us, because they are too caring.
I did say i dont want assholes either, users and such.
I want a guy who works on himself and i can grow with him. Not who follows me around like a puppy 😐
Girls are masochistic cus we let the ones who didn't like pain die off.
@RandomGuy1030 Lol you didn't do anything kiddo, you're a product of those who came before you? I have a hard time believing you've asked your mother is she likes it painful.
@Subarugirl Nature is nature saburu
@RandomGuy1030 Your balls have barely dropped... the only nature you know is what you've been taught... Go live in the real world for a few years, grow up, then comeback and try telling me how it really is.
@Subarugirl Dropped from where
@RandomGuy1030 Guess you haven't learned that in biology yet
@Subarugirl From heaven yes
So librarian, do you really think your nice guy friends are happy being friendzoned?
@lis-the-librarian I admire your honesty. At the same time, you're the type of person that contributes to what's wrong within society. Instead of going for healthy and reliable partners, you seek the thrill of the wrong type of men (aka bad boys) Just make sure you don't blame men when you get hurt as you've bascially admitted to have a poor choice in men. Sure, nice guys can be boring and I know they are. They have some work to do on themselves. At the same time their good heartedness fades in either resentment or they turn into the 'bad boy' when they see that their good heartedness is taken for granted.
At the same time, I agree with your response to subaru-girl who instantly pins everything on toxic masculinity when this clearly has NOTHING to do with it. Don't mind her, she is an infamous toxic feminist who likes to blame men even for the mistakes women make.
@Subarugirl for someone who tells someone else to grow up and get educated, you sure have a habit on blaming men for your mistakes. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with toxic masculinity. Take your misandrism elsewhere, hun.
Tstrbrainer, i dont friendzone anybody.
I let the guys know who say they like me that i dont like them back like that.
And the ones who dont say anything, what should i do? Become a mind reader🙂
I dont use my friends for favours like a lot of people do. Im actually the one running 5 errants a day sometimes, for my buddies😅
TruthBringer i dont want bad boys either, i still have my first boyfriend. Almost 5 years now. I like him and we have an healthy relationship.
Librarian, you are better than many others
Lol having women in your life in 21st century America is much more about your net worth than your personality, appearance, or fitness level.
Realistically if you want to meet women you need to have disposable income and know how to spend it well.
Mostly everyone else goes unnoticed. I wish it wasn't the case, but unfortunately that's where we are at.
Don’t think like that lovely you will meet your soulmate x
@StormMistress hey thanks, I guess it's possible, although it definitely feels like a fantasy sometimes.
Because girls are like the positive side of a magnet. They are attracted to the negative side while the same positive side makes them go away. I don't know if you understood the physics parallel lol.
Oh I did 😊
Glad to know!
Normally it's because those guys go for the unappreciated and/or toxic women or it could be other reasons. It's not black and white.
A majority of women these days know how to treat themselves, but they have no clue on how to treat a man... which is basically common sense if you're involved with someone.
Because self proclaimed "nice guys" rarely are. Good people don't feel the need to announce that they are good. Generally though, it would seem that they use that as a way to try and convince people they are owed something for being nice... They are not. That's just the bare minimum of being a decent human being.
A decent amount of women are selfish and like to fuck with others to make themselves feel good, whether they realize it or not. If you're not one of those women, you have my highest respect. And I can't say that about guys, its usually just a few out of the bunch, from what I've experienced. I'd never do that because I have something called "empathy", and a "non-narcissistic state of mind"...
I don't know, but it sucks. And I appreciate what you said there. In my situation, my wife was recently diagnosed with BPD. So she’s more concerned with herself and worried about being abandoned than about me and my needs. She tries sometimes, but I feel like I just have to cater to her needs for the rest of eternity.
there's a fine line between being kind hearted and loving and having balls. The two seldom go hand in hand (see what I did there?) Being appreciated demands respect, which is earned, and not by being a puss cake.
One of life's great questions... nice guy married to a bitch, nice woman to an ASSH%$#? What I do is never good enough for my wife. I work 7 days a week and I have no energy for her projects. My customers many of which are ladies love me... so I must me nice.
Aww... thanks! I think it is because these are just two of many qualities people look for and so there are a lot of people with various good qualities who are unappreciated until they find the right people to appreciate them.
It's simple. Because not all women are good. In fact, most are trash like most men are trash.
Sadly I can’t disagree with you there. A lot of humanity is trash. But those are who arnt deserve to be praised and cherished.
Aww you’re adorable. And I love your new profile pic
Naw Thankyou lovely x
It does seem like that. Probably for the same reason there are lots of loving kind hearted girls that are unappreciated. They do not look like models.
Because loving, kind people aren't generally doing it to get noticed or appreciated, it's how they are.
It could be because of so many reasons but remaining loving and kind during the hardships is what makes anyone a precious gem
It's human nature. Men are attracted to women who are kind, committed to only their SO, and not too big. Women are attracted to men who are mean, slept around with other women who aren't them, and not too small. There are exceptions but they have to look extra hard
It just makes it hard when other dudes act like buffoons and they ruin it for others cause people assume they are all the same.
I've been trying to figure that one out for at least the past 40-some years! All I can figure is that they prefer guys that beat them up because that's who they ALL gravitate to!!
Thank you for recognizing there are a great many Gems out there. Both men and women need to be better at seeing the world and themselfs for what it is instead of the unrealistic fantasy we are sold in modern media.
Because kind guys tend to be too kind and therefore seem to be around girls for so long that they become uninteresting for a relationship.
Cause they aren't trendy, flashy, and eye catching. They worked being a good person instead of looking like a good person.
Thank you for recognizing that there are a few of us nice guys out there!
Younger women seem to like the bad boys until they mature and see that a stable life is better than the life that they thought they wanted!
Girls aren't usually attracted to us, for some reason the loving sort of guys like me always seem to be uglier hence us being humble... Good looking guys are cocky and feel above being loving and rather be players
Also because we're shy and girls don't notice or realise we exist
Because they can easily be over-looked. Society works different than they do and therefore they are not in the centre of attention.
No. I just don't have any desire to be a parent.
🤷I would donate my s.. per..* to a s.. per..* bank for any couple who can not naturally conceive a child.
because in a world where you're forced to talk a certain way and to agree with certain opinions, it's harder to see genuinely good people, cause everyone behaves the same.
Because your fellow sisters get to them first treat them like shit and make them hostile towards all women leaving women to complain about men being dogs remember behind every player , pig or fuckboy is a bitch that abused and hurt them
This☝️
Maybe can't tell the difference between that... and him being just a bish.
Nice sentiment <3
Too many will take it the wrong way though :(
They're not unappreciated over here. They judy worry that I'm not really gonna like them.
Because all you women say stuff like this and then deny them. Lol.
Because we're not rich enough. I keep hearing "I like you only as a friend" which in tralsation from female language means "You're not rich enough for me".
Or maybe you just have a shitty personality doesn't want to get romantically involved with a negative Nancy with an inferiority complex...
@Subarugirl "Or maybe you just have a shitty personality"
No, I don't. It's just that according to the women in my country, if a man doesn't have at least one expensive car in the garage, he's not a human and doesn't deserve attention. That's why I don't bother with relationships anymore, I simply get women drunk to the point they don't care who f*cks them, as long as someone does. This way saves a lot of trouble.
You in the broad sense of the world, it’s a metaphor not a dick don’t take it so hard. The bigger issue here is the fact you are admiring to getting someone drunk so that you can rape them….
@Subarugirl You and I have a very different idea of what rape is, lol
Well if a person is unable to consent to sex and someone does it anyways that’s rape. Not really different ideas just fact
@Subarugirl What, you think I force them? When they're drunk enough, I just say "let's fuck!" and they drop their pants on their own.
“ I simply get women drunk to the point they don't care who f*cks them” if you have to get someone drunk to in order to fuck them that is not consensual
Because we end up giving too effort without realizing woman want to be treated like they are no body. If a girl is ignored after being given attention she will be addicted and obsess over the same man
Because women are attracted to hot and/or wealthy guys and the vast majority of loving, kind hearted guys, are no better than average looking and don't have high incomes.
Because guys with those personality traits typically don't have the masculine traits that attract women.
I think the entire nice guys finish last is all about avarage joes complaining not getting with tve prettiest super model type of girls.
I'd wager there are a lot of sycophants out there, too so I don't fault the women for being careful with them. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
It’s because while everybody wants those things in a partner ideally, those aren’t the things that cause sexual attraction.
Because women usually go to the assholes. I'm not here to piss anyone (For fucks sake I gotta use disclaimers now?) off, but most of what I've seen is nice guys doing way too much far too early.
Because nice guys get nothing and wankers win always :)
Nice and caring and sweet is great.
But in a romantic and/or sexual relationship you have to have some sexual attractiveness too.
Because they don't earn enough and mostly their kindness is a manipulative act.
First of thank you so much for saying that and good guys finish last always have and always will. I was appreciated more when I was a bad guy and cared about nothing or no one outside of my family
They're not unappreciated in my country. It's the rude ones that get ignored.
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