I was answering another question on GAG, when I came across this claim; "Society doesn’t care about us (i. e. men). We are expendable".
It's not the first time I've come across this particular claim either. Where are they getting these weird ideas from? The online "manosphere"? That klutz Andrew Tate? Piers Morgan? Jordan Peterson?
IT’s society. Even look at men’s mental health, why is it that so many men don’t reach out for help? Well I’ll tell you when I was 15 and having suicidal thoughts for the past two years and contemplating jumping in front of a truck. I reached out to my family and all I was told is that I can’t be suicidal because I have it too good. Which was a complete denial of my reality and what I was about to do. Now if I was a women I’m sure that would have gone far differently. But I thank God because it is only a miracle that I am still alive today.
Are you saying that men being expendable is Nonsense? How so? I've only known feeling worthless most of my life. I mean who cares?
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Opinion
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Male expendability is a fact. It's a pervasive mindset, even today, that stems from the idea that women are required to perpetuate the species, one child at a time, but once a man has impregnated her, he is technically no longer needed except to protect and provide for the mother and child so the child can survive to adulthood and reproduce. That doesn't happen as much on a micro level today, because in modern society men provide those services at the macro level in the form of the armed services, fire departments, law enforcement and government services. That modern condition even allows women to choose to be single mothers, and thousands of women are doing just that. https://www.singlemothersbychoice.org/
Here are a few examples (of many) of how male expendability manifests in the real world.
I could go on and on, but that's a good start. You don't need the manosphere to see these things, just a little honesty, something that is lacking in modern society when it comes to issues affecting men.
Intereting, 15 upvotes and counting, yet not a word from the QA.
You do realise, of course, that no one here HAS to respond to the responses his or her questions receive on GAG. You did know that, didn't you?
Yes, of course, but that's completely beside the point.
We get the idea from hearing women.
Tate is a wanker. He's a walking caricature of an alpha and in real life I've never met a single guy who wants to be like him.
Jordan Peterson on the other hand, gets it. He's intelligent and able to accurately say to the misandristic "Feminists" out there what we - as guys - want to say.
In the last fifty years we've gone from the male role models being Ben Cartwright and the cowboys on Bonanza and the High Chaperral run by the Cannon brothers and Manolito Montoya to men being presented as Homer Simpson; Ray, Robert and Frank Barone in "Everybody Loves Raymond" and even strong characters like Aragorn in Lord of the Rings get rewritten so they are plagued by self doubt instead of the confidence Tolkien wrote.
In the books, the hobbits return to find Saruman and Grima have taken over the Shire and their last battle is to reclaim their world and eliminate Saruman once and for all. The movies have the weakest ending for them as Sam - the courageous young hobbit that killed Shelob and faced ten thousand Orcs - is still scared to ask the girl for a dance and Merry and Pippin who we watched develop into battle-hardened warriors that even the King knelt to revert to adolescent pranksters looking for a beer.
The message we're given is clear. As a man, you're only useful for breeding the next generation - but don't expect to be a voice in the child's life. When she leaves - as in 80% of divorces it's women who leave - she gets full custody and half your income or more. But if you're ten minutes late picking the child up or dropping them off you're labelled as unreliable or even unfit.
So, it's in the majority of the media, movies, TV, cartoons and documentaries. We're told being masculine is offensive. Our sons are being taught in kindergarten that maybe they aren't boys because what's important is how you feel.
My son is 5. He told me tonight he's a cat. That doesn't mean I get him a litter tray to shit in. Yesterday he was a T-Rex 🦖. Maybe tomorrow he'll be a dragon 🐉. He's none of them. He's a boy exploring his imagination and finding things that represent what he feels. Two days ago he was a ballerina - because "principal dancer" doesn't have the same ring to it. By his age I'd been doing ballet 2 years. By 19/20 when I stopped - because it was injuring my knees - I was certain I was straight, just in a more graceful way than my peers on the rugby team.
But for 35 years now I've tried to ignore the movies, TV shows and the news broadcasting channels bombarding the airwaves with the idea that as a man I'm not necessary. I've been turned down for jobs in South Africa because of my sex and my colour. I'm employable again now because I'm disabled. Suddenly I'm less expendable.
But don't kid yourself - if I get a job and a black lesbian with one leg applies to replace me then I'm expendable.
No. We get if from society. Everything from the feminist protests, to the news, to even tv shoes and movies that insert misandric comments about men. And everybody is doing it. Plus, they don't give a damn about men's struggles, and men's issues, which ironically is another one of men's issues in of itself, and we are always one little allegation away from going to jail, even if it's a lie. It's not nonsense at all. Society does not give a damn about us. Everyday you see society find a new way to demonize, shame, or belittle the men, and not enough people are speaking up on it. And when they DO speak up on it, guess what? They get cancelled! Meanwhile you have all these other people bashing men left and right with the most ridiculous and disgraceful methods possible and they are allowed to stay on mainstream for as long as they want. That's why we KNOW society doesn't give a damn about us. And many women either aren't aware of this, or don't give a damn at all. Very few are actually sympathetic and speak out for us because they actually genuinely care. Unfortunately, 8/10 times when they actually do start to care about men's issues, it's because one of those issues happened to a man that they care about. Does this happen all the time? No. But most of the time I hate to say it, it does.
It is absolutely true that men are considered disposable , expendable, replaceable. Men make up less than half of the population, die six years sooner then women, but three times as much is spent on women-specific medical research then men's. Why? Because society values women more than men.
Men do ALL of the dirty, dangerous, arduous jobs and make up 98% of workplace fatalities, and 95%+ of the serious injuries. Men are conscripted to go to war and fight/die, or be badly injured (physically/mentally) and left to struggle the rest of their lives.
Men make up 80% of the homeless population. Men's mental health issues are treated with suspicion and can cause a man to be imprisoned before he has committed a crime. At least 30% of men were sexually abused as boys, but men are expected to keep quiet and soldier on.
I could give 100 additional examples.
Where do we get this nonsense? From the age of about 12 on, boys/men realize that no one really cares about us. If a man doesn't add value to society as a whole he will be scorned and outcast. Women are born with their value, men have to earn it, and there is no guarantee he will ever earn it.
"... three times as much is spent on women-specific medical research then men's"
Rubbish! That is NOT true! Just as much attention (and money) is given to specifically male (ex. prostate cancer) issues as female (ex. breast cancer). At least that's the case in MY country.
@FrankAu Wrong.
It's already been explained well here, but also for the fact that whenever a tragedy happens, if there's mostly men killed, articles explaining the incidents will say "people" instead of men.. They will focus on the women and children.. I remember the campaign "#Bringbackourgirls" that were kidnapped by Boko Haram in 2014..
The Western media was all over that story as they should be.. But then nobody wondered to ask "what happened to the boys".. Well, Boko Haram also kidnapped thousands of boys and yet no media attention.. https://archive.is/WuDmu
There was a story about a school that was attacked by Boko Haram.. They basically slaughtered the boys, burned and cut down any that tried to escape, and let the girls live only to tell them that they should get married, and forget "Western education". https://archive.is/eJpWO , https://archive.is/LctSC
Hell, even with Elliott Rodgers, the focus is on him hating women when most of his victims were male and he stabbed his roommates more than 94 times, both of whom were male
That's just a few of the many instances where boys/men are forgotten across the world and looked over when tragedy happens..
That comes from the fact the vast majority of men are not loved unless they are useful. It is conditional love. First time most men get flowers is at their funeral. First time men get a genuine heartfelt gift is from their kid that ends pretty quick though. Men receive few compliments if any over the course of their lives every man on this page and most guys on earth can name the day time place and what the compliment was about in addition to what they had on and the weather. Every guy can name the exact thing they received for a birthday from a partner if they got something at all. The reality is that guys are barely even treated as people. Don't show emotion? Bad. Show emotion? Also bad. Be kind, caring, honest, respectful? "Nice guy" be rude, hostile, an asshole "bad boy" all of these and many many more stereotypes exist about men and how men should act or behave. This is coming from a man who has a wife that loves him unconditionally. Most men are not as lucky in girlfriends let alone wives. As a result most men feel expendable because they are treated like they are.
Because we are. By law you aren’t required to register for selective services. Meaning if WWIII broke out w mass casualties, you’re not going, the men will have to or face prison time. You don’t have men’s shelters, or just men’s homeless shelters. A lot of spaces that used to be for men have been opened to women. But you still have certain places that are still strictly for women. Even nowadays when it comes to restrooms. You still have women’s restrooms, a lot of men’s restrooms have been turned into unisex restrooms. Society makes fun of men, if he gets kicked in the balls people laugh. If a girl was kicked in her snatch most likely no one would laugh. Plus when you have women telling you that all the time. That men aren’t shit, we don’t need you. If you get a chance read this book called “Self-Made Mad” by Norah Vincent. She went undercover as a man for 18 months. Eventually she became depressed, she committed suicide w assistance. She realized that men are struggling, that it’s hard being a man but that it doesn’t seem like it because we don’t talk about it. She said she loves being a woman more because she realized she has more privilege as a female than as a man. I’m not complaining about it. It is what it is, you learn to live w it as a man. Most men don’t complain for a number of reasons. For one if you complain, even w legitimate reasons, society, both men as well as women tend to look at him as a bitch, a whiner, less of a man, etc. Then when you try to talk to women about your feelings because women say they want a man who’s open w his feelings, his feelings are dismissed. Because his feelings, his thoughts don’t align w what her truth is, she doesn’t like it. So in her eyes it’s him, there’s something wrong w him. Why doesn’t he think the same why I do.
It comes from the same place that teaches people in the military if they were meant to have feelings then the government would have issued them with the rations. Its the same thing that teaches us its not ok to cry when were young. It comes from the place in the back of your mind that tells you you can not be vulnerable because that means you're weak. Weakness=death. It comes from the darkest part of you and me. The statistics show that an alarmingly small number of women stay with a man who is being treated for some serious life threatening disease. Because they dont want someone whos weak. Because its to hard for them to watch him die. With no regard for how its gonna be for the man that they claimed to love to die alone. This is the truth. Most men in this world dont know how to even let someone care about them or be a true friend any more because we have to stay so guarded to protect our selves to protect our family. Because if anything makes us really believe it cares and we find out it tricked us. Whole lives worth of building a family, a business, a life you can be proud of. Gone in minutes. Its
Hell, I feel that way.
ﾠ
And no, this simp account is a fucking joke. Especially when I try steroids (not a joke) I feel the most "expendable" and fearless. As others have pointed out, males impregnate and die trying to protect and provide. There was a man named @roosterbreast, actually 3 identical accounts, and if you watch him closely... watch actual roosters, whenever they find food they never eat it before sharing some with the hens they're stomping. That's what gender is about.
It's like humans promising to never cheat and still do. Has to do with what we refer to as biology. I imagine this view of men as expendable also comes and goes with women's hormones.
However I still have a big fucking ego and pick whom I sacrifice for.
So funny because last night I had a dream that my relatives were trying to kill me as they didn't need me anymore. I managed to escape their gunfire & fled to safety. However, I came back to their home only to hack into their devices & create issues that only I knew how to fix. Next time they saw me, seeing how useful I could be to them, they were conveniently very forgiving & no longer wanted to kill me.
It's just a dream & my family would never actually do that. But I think it's symbolic in a way that I can relate to. This type of thing happens, just usually in less extreme scenarios. In a way that highlights how we men are more human doings than we are human beings. We are loved mainly for what we can provide. If we can't provide anything, then we "aren't a man" & are barely treated as humans a lot of times.
I think Russian men would have felt a little expendable in 2023 with the meat wave tactics. "See that machine gun over there? Run to it and take it out".
You would have to say husbands are expendable to wives with the median length of marriage being eight years before a unilateral divorce is initiated by the wife in 70-90% of divorces. Eight years is just enough time to pop out two babies and to get them into elementary school.
The average number of children per divorce is 1.8 so most divorces have two children (80%) about when elementary school starts minding them. Odd this coincides.
Do you have any arguments to the opposite?
Every man knows this, that the only value men have in society is as being beasts of burden. What we have, provide and are willing to part with is the only thing that attracts people who shower us with immaterial things such as affection or "love" but every man also knows that as soon as he's weak, don't have anything more or get sick we're expendable. No one lifts a finger for a mans sake (unless it's the middle finger) and we're being told such by feminists, media, other men and women on a daily basis.
I have yet to see ONE example of regular decent humanity shown to a man without any ulterior motive and there's certainly no politcal programs in place to help men with their issues except maybe for feminists who only ever argue that men have no issues worth adressing.
If we're not expendable, if the boat is sinking, why do we have to let the women and children off first? And why are we always expected to act as the protectors and put ourselves in dangerous situations? Until recently, women weren't even allowed to enlist in the military. So in a way, we kind of are, and I agree with Bill Burr. If you believe men and women should be treated equally, then I'm gonna fight you for that raft.
@KostasKouvalis it's not because you are expendable... just you would last longer in the water than women or kids...
Do you know what SAS is? It's the best special forces unit in the world, part of the British Army. And you know what? They have so hard selection process that only about 5% of candidates pass it, and until now, no woman has made it to the end. And no one complains :D
I don't believe men and women are the same. We obviously aren't. But we should have the same rights. If women want to join the military, should pass the selection process. AFAIK for the recruit level, there is no difference in gender, at least in the British Army. So what is the problem if women join if they need to go through the same test and drill?
@IslaTheWitch So you acknowledge that we're physically superior. And I never said women shouldn't enlist, I said that until recently, being a soldier was seen as "men's work."
And I think it was the singer from Disturbed who recently at a concert told the mosh pit to calm down because women and children are being crushed and we need to protect them. So I guess it's okay for the male fans to be crushed?
I was at a Maiden concert where Bruce Dickinson told some people in the mosh pit to calm down and he didn't make it an age or gender thing.
So sadly, yes, a lot of people DO see men as expendable. I don't need some right wing conspiracy theorist to tell me that.
I will say though, that might only be a Western thing, as in other cultures its women that are seen as expendable, because you didn't see too many women and children pouring into Europe or Mexico from third world countries or war zones, it's almost all men.
@KostasKouvalis come to Germany :D I will show you mothers with kids from Africa, the Middle East and other places
@IslaTheWitch "it's not because you are expendable... just you would last longer in the water than women or kids..."
Sorry but this is nonsense. A place in a boat usually means that you are saved/no place means you die. We are not talking here about temporary thing. You can spend hours in a boat until help arrives.
"5% of candidates pass it" remember that things like that have (usually normal) distribution. That means that some women can last in cold water longer than average men. There are a lot of female winter swimmers, but I get cold quickly and even in summer I swim in wetsuit.
"we should have the same rights." --> Yes! Men should have the right to be saved during sea accidents. Men should not be coerced to fight in battles.
You're thinking of the Titanic. It's not 1912 anymore.
I'm not gonna lie, I actually WAS
There's really no point in trying to explain this to you. You're just going to dismiss everything we say, like you did on that post.
"Get the violins out:("
That's usually the response we get from women when we open up, which is funny because women are the ones always telling us to open up.
Well, I won't bother to ask you to provide clear examples of "female privildege" then. After all, I'll just "dismiss them", so why even try to present a case here? How convenient (and easy) this is for you.
I have no desire to list off female privileges either, but not for the reason you think. I'm not interested in a "who has it worse debate" minorities and both genders have special privileges. What does this have to do with your violin comment? If you wouldn't call that comment "dismissive" what would you call it?
The way you worded your "question" wasn't a "I'm open minded, let's see if you can change my mind or find some common ground" it was a "you're wrong, I'm right and I know more about the male experience than you do." Very obnoxious. There is no debating with people like this.
After reading your comment on the other question, I stumbled onto this one and found it funny. As stated in my opinion. That's all.
Actually, the manosphere, Tate, and Peterson are telling them the exact opposite: that young men are extremely valuable.
The belief that we are essentially expendable comes from living in a society that values men for the value we provide to others. Maybe that value is money. Maybe it's a product or service. Maybe the value is our lives, in the form of military service. That belief is part of the patriarchy.
Do women face military conscription anywhere in the world?
If by "conscription" you mean, "compulsory military service", Israel has that for women, but I think they may be the only ones.
Israel. North Korea.
Well, you did ask the question, "Do women face military conscription anywhere in the world?", so I gave you two examples of where they do. Whether they're outliers or not is beside the point, the point being that you're wrong about your (implied) suggestion that they don't face being conscripted.
Besides, most nations in the West at least don't have conscription anymore for anyone, male or female.
I didn't realize women were drafted to serve in the Vietnam War
You don't tell me "stop"! Stop, because we both made you look like an idiot.
You're the one who strayed completely off topic. Don't EVER tell me to "stop"
You're the one who was implying women were drafted with your comment. Maybe learn proper English before writing stuff
Oh, I see you were an American soldier, so I should expect nothing more in regards to your intelligence level. Have nice day.
You're an idiot. Never implied women were conscripted. My whole point is they do not... and men do.
You see I was an American soldier... uh no? Making shit up because you got nothing... you're a joke. I'm sure I'd be rather be a citizen of the US than whatever dump you live in...
A "contingency basis". In the US. Well, the vast majority of us don't live there. That's a problem that your country needs to fix.
I can't think of a single Western democracy that still has conscription. Dictatorships do, of course.
And I'm not going to stop either. If I see a claim made by someone that is incorrect, I WILL correct it. Lies need to be stamped out, because they cause a great deal of damage to society.
"Puny little country"? So now that you've realised you've made a complete fool of yourself here, you're going to resort to smarmy insults? Your country isn't great, in any sense of that word apart from sheer territorial extent. Whether or not my country is "puny" (it's not, by the way) is IRRELEVANT!
Look, just leave these kinds of discussions to the grown ups here. You're obviously out of your depth, because you don't have the intellectual wattage to make any useful contribution to them.
"You think the men won't be forced to fight?"
Yes, they will, but WHO WILL START THOSE WARS IN THE FIRST PLACE? MEN! Men are the ones who are so f**king stupid that they actually GLORIFY mass-murderous violence!
the news companies reported the tragedy of dead women and children, not about men civilians we are trash to them and to women.
Which tragedy?
m they're not men though...
just whiny immature guys... that don't know what true worth is because they've sabotaged themselves inadequate
Funny how all of a sudden when feminism gets called out for hating men, it pretends like feminism is pro-men and has always been pro-men. But to your point, if this isn’t an actual problem, then why do so many men relate to it? Why have so many men been made expendable? And why is it so important to you that people stop talking about a problem that supposedly doesn’t exist?
women & children 1st on life boats, men can go to war women are too valuable need to be mothers & raise children, sperm is cheap eggs are expensive
Listen to your sisterhood on this sight, honey. If you don't see it, your eyes are simply closed, that's all.
It has been the case since time immemorial
Wars where men were just killed by the thousand have been waged over millennia
We get it from everyday life and what we experience in life.
Naturally males are born expendable but as we grow the dominant ones become less expendable
Ah. That old claim. Its narcissistic.
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