How do you feel about argumentative women?

[Anonymous]

Women who almost always have opinions on everything, and are willing to argue them, including opinions on controversial topics.

I'm very argumentative and sometimes that drives people away. Some of my friends who love me now even say that they couldn't stand me at first because I have a tendency to make conversations out of the simplest comments and I am always up for an argument. It's true - if someone makes a passing comment that I think sounds ignorant or something, then it's hard for me not to turn it into one of my "well, consider this because if you do then what you said doesn't make sense..." deals. Not always. Sometimes I just laugh and say something like "um I don't think it works that way, but sure." The former tends to annoy people. I guess in my mind I think of it as intelligent analysis of the way we think, what we believe in, making sure that what we say or believe in makes sense, etc. Other people see it as "forcing your opinions down someone else's throat." and I don't ever do that, at least not in my eyes. I do, however, argue to the point where I explain what is logical and what isnt. Some people love that, but I'd say most people don't, especially more conservative types who don't think its appropriate to argue with people about certain things, or most things, in a variety of settings. I'm the opposite. I could argue about any of my beliefs at any time, any place. Obviously, sometimes it is inappropriate, like funerals or something but I'm talking within reason.

I've only been in one relationship before and I'm pretty sure my personality plays a huge part. I've had guys clearly flirting with me, etc. for a while then one day they say something I don't agree with or somehow a topic comes up and they get my blunt opinions and the "well, I don't think what you're saying is rational" and then they just aren't interested anymore. A friend of mine told me "you really have to let people say stupid, ignorant sh*t and ignore it if you want more people to like you, especially guys." I have a hard time accepting that I guess.

I will admit that I can be pretty condescending, depending on whom I'm talking to. However, even when I'm not, some people still can't take it.

Enough of me yappin. What do YOU think? Are you turned off by personalities like this? What do you think about people like this? Be honest.

[Konnour]

Well.. I'm naturally quite argumentative myself, so if I would meet a woman with the same mind-set it would be like a ram and a goat charging against each other with their horns!

But I know how to control this part of myself, I know when it's really not the proper time when to criticize or complain about something.

Also when I see there could be a situation when someone blatantly challenges some of my views which I'm completely certain I'll never change I just don't bother to argue(it would be fruitless, pointless, endless circle anyway) - I rather get away if I can.

The simple truth is that people don't want to hear the truth. They don't want to hear opposing opinions, they don't want anybody to explain such things, with "logic" or "rationality" or "evidence" because they don't care. They're ignorant. And it must be left that way.

If someone's smart and seeks true answers to their questions, that person WILL find the truth, sooner or later. Nobody needs to shove their views upon anyone's throat - unless they clearly asked for it of course!

And actually.. we are not much different anyway. We have some strong views which we are not about to change, some actually never - that's what makes us argumentative in the first place.

It requires empathy to deal with people properly.

Also, arguing is anti-flirting. Having fights, arguments, "explaining" something literally turns off people!

If you want to set people in a good mood, you must make them to feel good, and what's more effective way to make someone feel like crap than either directly or indirectly telling that person is dumb?

And your potential dates will think - "What this relationship could be like in the future, if there's so much bitching already now? So I must get away, and fast!"

[Asker]

basically. lol

[ngreenw]

I like good intellectual arguments.

I have an example of a friend though who is a little unpopular because she argues too much. It particularly upsets one or two people in our group to the point where they won't talk to her for a day or two. Anyway, she doesn't argue necessarily too much, but she just argues about pointless things. Or if she just disagrees slightly. And she does it quite aggressively. If it is vaguely important or a big disagreement debated constructively, it doesn't seem too bad. This has been a big observation about her, and she is almost renowned for it on my course at university. She is intelligent, and conveys good points in her arguments, but this doesn't seem to completely redeem her overall with some people.

[Arwens-Fire]

SHARING your opinion is one thing...forcing it is another. And you did say that you can be condescending,do you think that maybe just maybe the way you approach an argument is overly aggressive?People...dont...like...that.Youre dealing with multiple personalities concerning your friends,associates etc. And just because you may think a comment or opinion of another is ignorant,it doesn't MEAN that it actually IS...because your thoughts are still JUST an opinion.Off of what you are saying here,there clearly is a problem if multiple people feel that your constant argumentive state is a repellant. I have a friend like you,and he had a great deal of difficulty getting along with others and it took him a while to figure out,that it was his overall approach to challenging opinions.Being condescending is not the way to go.Also...NO ONE wants to argue everything they say for you or anyone else.

Now,personally...i can't tolerate people who do this.I don't mind arguing a point here and there or when it's completely necessary.Otherwise...you just come off as "Difficult".

There is a possibility that I am wrong of course,but if everyone seems to have a problem with your apprroach,then maybe there is a problem.

Or find new friends.

[Asker]

well thanks for your opinion, missy. :)

[Arwens-Fire]

you're welcome :)

[Stacyzee]

Its okay to say your opinions but you have to kind of step out of your perspective and see why people feel the way that they do about a topic. I stand behind my strong opinions, but at the same time I welcome other peoples thoughts. If you shoot peoples opinions down they will think are you "Ms. Know it all" and you do not want to come across that way.

[Erwin]

most guys don't like girls who talk too much. It's nice to be lively but guys have lots of pride. Being too argumentative against us is a turn off. Maybe you need to dial it down a bit and use a more subtle way to convey your opinion.

[Asker]

and therein lies the dilemma. I couldn't ever do that because I'm a believer in staying true to who you are. my personality is my personality and I'm not changing the fundamentals of who I am for anyone. however, you make an excellent point here, which is usually why I lose dates lol I talk so f***ing much its ridiculous. and I curse like a sailor. f***ing hell.

one up for you, mr. for layin' down some truth! my mouth always gets me in trouble. le sigh.

[Erwin]

It's one thing to be honest and another thing to be obnoxious. If you argue just for the sake of arguing that's just obnoxious. You don't have to argue every single thing the guy said. Try to control yourself, obviously you can't always agree with other people but you don't need to blurt it out all the time. The other party has his own opinion too so just try to respect that while expressing your opinion.

[Asker]

I may be obnoxious, but that's who I am. I love arguing, the constant analogies, lots of "if...then", etc. it encourages critical thought instead of passive acceptance. I always speak my mind. I understand that not everyone likes that and I know people do find me obnoxious. Everyone is different. I'm a difficult woman, I know lol Thanks for the advice though.

[Erwin]

wow.. you actually sound a lot like me. I do like to "if.. then" a lot lol. I thought you were one of those blabbermouth girls who can't stop talking. My bad...

[Asker]

xD

its okay... I mean you're not entirely wrong. I do talk about nonsense a lot. I love talking, making people laugh and things like that. my mom always tells me "just shut up for a few minutes, just try it" haha

quick question...is erwin your real name? its so cute! I've been sitting here saying "erwin" to myself for the last 30 minutes. lol reminds me of lord of the rings for some reason, which is odd because I've never seen lord of the rings, at least not through to the end.

[Erwin]

hahaha.. I think I know what you mean, I have friends like you too..

yeah it's my real name, I know it's not a common name in the western world. It must have reminded you of "Arwen" that hot girl!

[Asker]

lol perhaps it does. you're from indonesia? that's groovy. I need to travel more, note to self. I love America but there's so much more to see out there. anyway I'm yapping again. thanks for your opinion and input! :)

[Hyrule]

Well it depends, I like people who have a mind of their own, I think everyone should. But I also believe that you have to respect other people opinions. I don't mind debating an interesting topic but if I feel that the other person have no understanding of my side, then, a turn off.

This of course doesn't involve the big things like racism and stuff like that. I have no respect for that. ^^

[MikeK]

Frankly, I like a girl with a little moxie... you sound like me lol

[Asker]

moxie ha ha thanks ^__^

[kheserthorpe]

Its hard to say. This is one of those things where you'd need to see how extreme and what context. I like argumentative people more then the average person does, but there are limits for me too.

[taster]

Well Said.."controversial" is one thing while "argumentative" is another...I prefer intelligent females...but I don't need a fight or argument within each day or during every meal..and of course stuff like politics & religion need to be either aligned, resolved or avoided...hard to avoid in marriage tho...O:O

[Asker]

different preferences, I understand that.

[kheserthorpe]

I'll also mention that both one of my cousins and my aunt are ... uh ... very argumentative. Both are happily married. The men they married are quite similar - quietly confident, don't argue with them, but don't cave in either. Its more like my cousin/aunt go off on some rant, and their husband just sort of smiles at them with this bemused look. It works for them.

[Asker]

ha thanks. my parents are like that. I can't really argue with my mother though, she's not trying to hear me or respond to me the way I want. I guess its different when you're a parent, though. you want your kids to believe certain things and when they dont, and argue against you, its hard. still, its like talking to a wall.

[kheserthorpe]

How easily do you change your positions? My wife complains that I'm 'never wrong'. In practice, I think I change my positions fast if people put up good arguments. That's actually why my wife has this frustration that I'm 'never wrong'. When I'm wrong, I drop the argument so fast she doesn't notice. At least, that's my take.

[Asker]

i don't usually change my positions. I have pretty strong beliefs and they are the result of years of self reflection and thought and consideration. that's on the serious issues though. on less important issues its simple - if you provide good evidence and argue against my arguments well, ill consider. I'm a strong believer that just because I don't have the evidence in front of me, doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong in the objective picture. however, if I'm wrong, I'm just wrong. ill admit it easily

[Anonymous]

I love it. As long as you use reason, and not become irrational. Once it becomes emotional, I find it annoying.

[UnoriginalUsername]

I'm all for a good argument. As long as the broad in question bases her arguments on reason and logic like one is supposed to instead of emotion, which most females base their arguments on.

[MikeK]

BINGO!

Female argument = sans logic

[Asker]

thats ironic, as most men I know have opinions and arguments that aren't based on any kind of solid logic or reason. the opposite of emotional isn't necessarily logical/rational. And I would argue that men do base their arguments on emotions, quite often. For example, pride and a sense of importance is a huge one with men, anger, jealousy, passion, etc. These are all emotions and most people in general, female or male, tend to make arguments and form opinions based on emotions. So I disagree.

[UnoriginalUsername]

Obviously it comes down to the individual, but you would be being academically dishonest to say that there aren't differences between male and female brains. link

It comes down to the person, but generally, females are emotion based.

[Asker]

I don't think I ever said there aren't differences between female and male brains. I said that the illustration of men as rational/logical is a fallacy. You can make irrational decisions and arguments without being emotionally driven toward them. You can be emotionally driven and make rational decisions. And again, I do think men are just as emotionally driven as women are, just in different ways. I also think a lot of that is based on culture and society but that's another story...

[UnoriginalUsername]

The differences in the brain are what because differences in behavior such as in arguments. My claiming that men are more logical as opposed to women being more emotional was a generalization, and that had already been established. "You can be emotionally driven and make rational decisions." I never said anything contrary to that so this statement is extraneous. I was talking about arguing, not decision-making. "I do think men are just as emotionally driven as women" generally, you are wrong.

[UnoriginalUsername]

Cause* not because.

[Asker]

Even as a generalization, its inaccurate. That's my point. The conversation on this issue online always seems to run the line of "emotional women vs. rational men." You pointed out that women are allegedly basing arguments on emotion instead of reason and logic, which implies that men do the opposite. You hadn't said otherwise, so I had to point out that even if women were more emotionally driven in their arguments, it wouldn't mean that men were operating on good logic or reason.

[Asker]

Oh sorry, I assume that when you talk about brains, it affects both decision making and arguments. If you argue that someones brain causes them to make emotional arguments, I think its reasonable to assume that you also think that person, with that same brain, would lead them to make decisions that are heavily influenced by emotion, in comparison to another person with a different brain. O.o Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how you can separate the nature of someone's brain from either.

[Asker]

*I think its reasonable to assume that you also think that person, with that same brain, would be more prone to making decisions that are heavily based on emotion* that sounds better. sorry for that

[heavenonearth]

Just want to say, being in-touch with your emotions and able to express them is separate from the experience of emotions, which can cloud judgement. Men and women differ less in their experience of emotion than they do in their expression of those emotions. Women are the more emotional sex in terms of the ease with which they can express their emotions, think about emotions, and recall emotional experiences, but men feel as much as we do, on average. I can site my psych book, if you'd like.

[Asker]

ive never seen any evidence suggesting that men operate on good reason or logical thought when it comes to making arguments, forming opinions, or making decisions. I've seen lots of evidence that could contradict that argument actually. If you provide me with some, I'll check it out. Your link never supported your claim. It said women were more "in touch with their emotions". That is not the same thing.

[Asker]

exactly, heaven. Those are two different things. And please site away. lol No offense, but this entire conversation is like exhibit A to support my argument that being male does not at all mean you have rational opinions...

[Asker]

and yes, before you even say it, I know you're only one individual.

[Konnour]

I sense misogyny.

[Asker]

as do i, but I didn't want to go there as a first resort. might be construed as being too much of an emotional harpy on her period or some sh*t. kill them with reason, its the best option.

[heavenonearth]

Alright lol, so it's simply "Psychology", Fifth Edition, by Hockenbury & Hockenbury. There's a section on gender-related differences. They dicuss several studies conducted on this subject, Boden & Berenbaum 2007, Hall and Matsumoto 2004, Ann Kring and Albert Gordon 1998, Agneta Fischer and colleagues 2004, Feldmen Barrett & others 2000, etc. all relating to this gender stereotype and its veracity.

[UnoriginalUsername]

link

Get learned. Also, being contrarian is another annoying trait.

[Asker]

Is it supposed to be ironic that your link supports what I've been saying all along, and what heaven has added, and not what you have said at all? Or are you actually serious? Please be the latter. What is the point of posting a link that doesn't support anything you have said? O.o *confused*

[UnoriginalUsername]

"it is correct to say that women show their emotions more than men."

Boom.

[Asker]

wow...as we have pointed out a couple times now, there's a difference between being in touch with and articulating/expressing your emotions and being more likely to base opinions and arguments on emotions and not at all on logic/rationality. you can't honestly miss the difference here, can you? did you even read the entire text of your post? I didn't even read the whole thing and I understood that they make it a point to distinguish expression of emotion from what you've claimed here. O.o

[UnoriginalUsername]

More likely to show emotion... except for when arguing... suuuure.

[Asker]

Again, showing and expressing emotion are totally different from 1. basing your argument or opinion on emotion and 2. having no logic or rationality in your argument or opinion. more importantly, not expressing emotion doesn't mean that you are not emotionally driven in your opinions or arguments. If you can't understand that, then that's your problem. We can agree to disagree but I have logic and rationality, and thanks to you and heaven, evidence to support what I'm saying. you dont.

[UnoriginalUsername]

Showing and expressing mean basically the same thing, but whatever. Just because you don't comprehend the sources I put up doesn't mean the support isn't there. Your ignorance is not my fault.

[Asker]

lmao. okay, later.

[heavenonearth]

Right, women are more likely to express their emotions, but they *experience* the same amount of emotion as men do, on average. If you look at that wiki page, it actually says just that. "These researchers concluded that men and women experience the same amount of emotion, but that women are more likely to express their emotions."

Experiencing emotion (especially strong emotions), whether expressed or not, can get in the way of rational thought. Though, not always, as the QA pointed out.

[Asker]

I don't think he actually read it. lol I HOPE he didn't read it, as the text is extremely clear and comprehensible. even if he did, he seems like type who won't admit when he is wrong. irrational people are like that, male or female.

[UnoriginalUsername]

The same amount of emotion can come out in different ways. For example, one person's emotions can come out DURING ARGUMENTS, while the others' can come out while playing sports or something.

[Asker]

emotions coming out is not the issue here. you still don't get. *face to palm*

your emotions can come out while you're in the process of making rational arguments. you can get excited, impassioned, angry, frustrated, etc. while making a perfectly logical argument. that is not the same thing as basing your arguments on emotions. basing arguments on emotions is being so overwhelmed by emotional experience that you ignore what is rational. you don't have to express that emotion.

[Asker]

for example, if you have an experience in the past that triggers certain emotions in your mind when a certain topic or subject is brought up, you may make irrational arguments or form irrational opinions based on those emotions. most people do this. you may be closed to any criticism of your opinions or any logical thought process to prove them as ignorant or irrational, whatever. you don't have to express the emotions you're feeling, but your opinion is still based on them.

[Asker]

or even in the moment, you can experience emotion that is so strong that it clouds your mind and prevents you from making rational opinions, arguments, or decisions.

this is entirely different from a tendency to be open and expressive of your emotions. if anything, understanding/being in touch with your emotions is probably more likely to lead to understanding what is rational vs. what you happen to be feeling.