Because the diagnostic criteria is also very womens based. I heard a podcast about this, but basically women are more likely to suffer from depression, however if you include substance use for example way more men fill criteria for depression. Men deal with hardships differently than women. They tend to have an outward approach where they go to the gym, drink or punch a wall. Women are more socialized to talk about their hardships. So you have an idea of depression what doesn't fit with most men, they're not socialized to talk about problems and feelings and are taught to not recognize their feelings. It gives a very toxic mix where they either go when it's really bad or they just drown in their misery and go to action instead of prevention if you knwo what I mean.
As someone who was bullied for many years going through school, it's personally hard for me to talk to people about any type of feelings or anything. I do go through a lot of depression & other mental health stuff and only talk to people that I feel comfortable with which isn't a lot of people. I don't even talk to family about it.
Basically, everyone I've talked to so far about it has made it out to be a joke or went behind my back to tell other friends / family so when that happens I just punch stuff and injure myself. Men are made out to be strong and brave or off-topic sex addicts. Then building all that depression up etc leads to doing stupid stuff such as Alcohol or drugs which then leads to even worse things, Self harm / Suicide
A lot of it does come from the traditional idea of what it means to be a man. I'll be the first to admit for years my head was a massive mess for many years. No one can have the life experiences I have, especially as a child and not be a mess. But I was a father figure to my younger brother and had to grow up quick. So I was a "man" before middle school. The world could be falling apart and I'd man up. Despite losing my shit in my head, most people wouldn't know it. A lot of guys probably don't get help because on some level they hold onto this expectation that we are supposed to man up. I'm glad I gave up on that expectation. Because I already had one foot on a path that lead to heavy drug use or suicide.
Ask any modern woman. Men are supposed to just sit there and take it. Her cheating. Her having side dudes and girls nights out. Her being whacked out and mentally ill and abusive and manipulative. Her being a psycho and totally chaotic. To not take it or to not "fix" it, is, according to modern women, not being a "real man"... or being "toxic, controlling, immature, insecure"... And society, even yo momma signs off on that BS. Men should be taking care of themselves and telling modern women to get over it. Nobody Loves Me But My Mother And She Might Be Jiving Too
Mental illness is something that tranishes image of any person and the view of the society changes and boy do they love to chit chat about it behind your back infront of your face be it anyone theee will be someone who will tell we got koo-koo.
Yet i think people will get treated if it's out of control like completely crazy.
Sucide tendency and the reason for it the stress and all its hard to understand in first place that it's a mental illness the cause actually is not being able to handle stress or find a solution to something and not letting go of things.
And not everyone could afford treatement for it i guess
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There could be any number of reasons, from the expense, to time (maybe don't have time for the appointments), to social stigma, to admitting they need help (more of an issue for guys I think), etc etc. A lot of guys have a problem talking about anything like that in general (emotions, communication in general etc) as it is, never mind needing "therapy". But it goes against most people's idea of "being a man". In a lot of guy's minds, this would show "weakness", and guys are supposed to be "strong". It's what we're taught right from birth from everyone. Even women do this. "Be a man" or "suck it up!" are common things a lot of women say when we express ANY emotion at all. It's really sad, but that's our society.
Men are raised to not burden others with their troubles. They can be ridiculed by their peers for showing emotion. Also basically to put it bluntly most men feel that no one cares. In western society men must find their worth. If they fail they are deemed worthless by and large and tossed aside. No one will care unless perhaps their mother or grandmother.
Because men in general see mental illness as a weakness. Men like to be perceived as strong and tough, and that is not only by the rest of the world... but they want to perceive themselves as being strong and tough. Mental Illness is something most people can over come with a positive out look and sense of self awareness and self honest self reflection.
Mental illness is not something that you can just over come with a positive out look, sure some forms of depression, but depression caused by hormonal factors, BPD, associative identity disorder, and a bunch of other mental illnesses can't just be fixed with a positive outlook.
You are correct, for some people that is 100% true. But do not discount the power of ones own mind and positive thinking. If you believe you are incapable of or can not over come something then you never will.
A bunch of mental disorders can not just be fixed period, by positive attitude or medication or theory. But if there is any chance at all to beat it, you have to start with a proactive and positive can do attitude and no therapist or phycologist would tell you that a positive attitude and up beat out look is a bad thing or that it would not help... but you have to have the mental fortitude to develop that for yourself over time with help if you can not do it yourself, but nobody else can do it for you. So it starts with you, making the changes you need to make in or life to find that desired level of happiness and accomplishment.
So not sure I understand what your point is? Are you saying you do not believe in positive proactive thinking?
Oh I believe in the placebo effect, but you wouldn't tell someone with cancer that positive thinking will heal them, why would to tell someone with a mental illness that?
Because medically speaking physicians and phycologist can diagnose illness or sickness as a disorder, disease or condition.
Condition simply indicates a state of health, whether well or ill. A condition may be later treated as a disease or illness, but does not necessary mean its a disease or disorder beyond some signs or symptoms.
Disease denotes a condition characterized by functional impairment, structural change, and the presence of specific signs and symptoms.
Disorder, in contrast, denotes a condition characterized by functional impairment without structural change.
So Mental Disorder and/or illnesses are treated as disorders or conditions.. You can prescribe meds to treat the symptoms of the disorder and/or condition... ultimately in the case of mild depression there is no serious signs of an over all disorder or permanent condition... so in most cases positive thinking with some mild treatment is all that is required. It may require more than positive thinking alone, but 90% of people who suffer from depression is not due to a over arching disorder or illness.
As a non-medical professional I would stress the importance of positive thinking above all else... because honestly its going to require that type of encouragement. But making excuses or exceptions for people to scapegoat around confronting the really issue will never really help them in the long run.
Now Cancer is a straight up disease.. it causes structural damage and impairment that can only be treated medically by a physician. But even then the more positive a patient stays the more likely they will beat it.
So honestly comparing cancer to any mental illness, condition or disorder is literally like talking apples to oranges... not even in the same ball park... miles if not worlds apart.
@DaveJord You've worded it fantastically! Indeed many people with so-called "depression" aren't actually 'depressed', but rather unhappy with how things are in their life. So they either need to fix what is wrong or simply have to adapt a more optimistic lifestyle. So many people go to therapy for years and not actually make any progress when all it took them is some inspiration, introspection and active lifestyle changes to actually achieve what years of therapy couldn't. Sure I believe there are therapists who can do wonders, but from what I've seen, therapists are more about milking their patients of their money than actually helping them.
And great job debunking this girl's strawman argument! I honestly facepalmed so damn hard after she compared mental illness with having cancer. Dear Lord how many braincells I've lost reading that...
This is a hold over of toxic masculinity. It too will fade over time unless encouraged by culture leading to a re-infection of society. In today's climate, it is fading although still fairly normal in men 40 years and older. Less so as you get younger. Millennials and younger seem to be all but cured of such nonsense
The short answer is that the global culture doesn’t support mental health much less mental health for men.
We should encourage men to develop networks of mentors, colleagues, and friends who encourage a safe space for men to share and communicate a sense of value in there families and communities.
Yeah that can be true for some people, finding a good therapist can be really difficult and when it comes to counseling and therapy, you only really get out of it as much as you are willing to put into it.
It is/ was viewed as weak and pathetic. Obviously it’s not true but society and other men tried to tell all men to just “suck it up “ or “stop being a punk” when dealing with mental burdens and illnesses.
It’s important to remember that you are human and having a human experience through this process we call life, sometimes we all need a little help
Men are shamed by society when they come speak out about mental illness. This website is a perfect illustration of that. How many pretty women on here shame the hell out of these lonely MGTOW guys who are clearly mentally ill? They call them pathetic losers. Women are welcomed with open arms to speak about their problems. As a man, nobody gives a shit and that’s the harsh reality.
Because no one cares. Even doctors are in it just for the money. As someone who went through depression and other stuff, there are only two ways out. 1. A woman who really supports you and is there for you. 2. You pull out yourself with effort (I took the latter). It took a hell of a lot of time and effort.
My male therapist helped me so much, so I don’t really know what you’re talking about. But I’m sorry that you weren’t able to find the support that you needed
That's great if you found help. You're a woman. It is much easier for you in that regard. Also as far as I know, you're actually an exception. For a lot of people, therapy is just a joke.
2. Society see men as robots and not human beings.
3. Because deep down no one cares about or want to hear a man's problem. Hell most women lose attraction to their partner if he shows weakness (emotionally or physically).
Men are less likely to seek treatment for anything. Men are expected to solve their own problems, take care of their own bodies, and shoulder their own burdens. Society has no sympathy for men and no safety net for them. So the fact that men rarely ask for help is no surprise.
Because it's a sign of weakness. Weakness doesn't survive. We're taught to adapt and overcome. Weaknesses is equated with uselessness and the useless are abandoned. We're taught that men are here to protect and provide, and anything else is superfluous
I think it's due to what I call "the male ego". Before I get backlash for this.. it's NOT an insult. Men have always been expected (by society) to be strong and not show sadness or pain as it could be taken as a sign of weakness. I feel that society has deemed any man "weak" for crying, let alone seeking help for emotional or mental issues. Therefore I feel it is because of what society has instilled in their minds. I don't think it's right but unfortunately it is just the world we live in.
We live in a society where mothers raise the kids. We can’t expect a mother to teach her boy how to be a man. If a boy is raised without male influence then how is he is expected to be a male role model for the next boy.
There needs to be more males raising their boys and we can’t force a guy to be a father because in this day and age, being a father is optional.
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Because the diagnostic criteria is also very womens based. I heard a podcast about this, but basically women are more likely to suffer from depression, however if you include substance use for example way more men fill criteria for depression.
Men deal with hardships differently than women. They tend to have an outward approach where they go to the gym, drink or punch a wall. Women are more socialized to talk about their hardships. So you have an idea of depression what doesn't fit with most men, they're not socialized to talk about problems and feelings and are taught to not recognize their feelings. It gives a very toxic mix where they either go when it's really bad or they just drown in their misery and go to action instead of prevention if you knwo what I mean.
As someone who was bullied for many years going through school, it's personally hard for me to talk to people about any type of feelings or anything. I do go through a lot of depression & other mental health stuff and only talk to people that I feel comfortable with which isn't a lot of people. I don't even talk to family about it.
Basically, everyone I've talked to so far about it has made it out to be a joke or went behind my back to tell other friends / family so when that happens I just punch stuff and injure myself. Men are made out to be strong and brave or off-topic sex addicts. Then building all that depression up etc leads to doing stupid stuff such as Alcohol or drugs which then leads to even worse things, Self harm / Suicide
A lot of it does come from the traditional idea of what it means to be a man. I'll be the first to admit for years my head was a massive mess for many years. No one can have the life experiences I have, especially as a child and not be a mess. But I was a father figure to my younger brother and had to grow up quick. So I was a "man" before middle school. The world could be falling apart and I'd man up. Despite losing my shit in my head, most people wouldn't know it. A lot of guys probably don't get help because on some level they hold onto this expectation that we are supposed to man up. I'm glad I gave up on that expectation. Because I already had one foot on a path that lead to heavy drug use or suicide.
Ask any modern woman. Men are supposed to just sit there and take it. Her cheating. Her having side dudes and girls nights out. Her being whacked out and mentally ill and abusive and manipulative. Her being a psycho and totally chaotic. To not take it or to not "fix" it, is, according to modern women, not being a "real man"... or being "toxic, controlling, immature, insecure"... And society, even yo momma signs off on that BS. Men should be taking care of themselves and telling modern women to get over it. Nobody Loves Me But My Mother And She Might Be Jiving Too
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SyI8rdWKiTIMental illness is something that tranishes image of any person and the view of the society changes and boy do they love to chit chat about it behind your back infront of your face be it anyone theee will be someone who will tell we got koo-koo.
Yet i think people will get treated if it's out of control like completely crazy.
Sucide tendency and the reason for it the stress and all its hard to understand in first place that it's a mental illness the cause actually is not being able to handle stress or find a solution to something and not letting go of things.
And not everyone could afford treatement for it i guess
There could be any number of reasons, from the expense, to time (maybe don't have time for the appointments), to social stigma, to admitting they need help (more of an issue for guys I think), etc etc. A lot of guys have a problem talking about anything like that in general (emotions, communication in general etc) as it is, never mind needing "therapy". But it goes against most people's idea of "being a man". In a lot of guy's minds, this would show "weakness", and guys are supposed to be "strong". It's what we're taught right from birth from everyone. Even women do this. "Be a man" or "suck it up!" are common things a lot of women say when we express ANY emotion at all. It's really sad, but that's our society.
Men are raised to not burden others with their troubles. They can be ridiculed by their peers for showing emotion. Also basically to put it bluntly most men feel that no one cares. In western society men must find their worth. If they fail they are deemed worthless by and large and tossed aside. No one will care unless perhaps their mother or grandmother.
Because men in general see mental illness as a weakness. Men like to be perceived as strong and tough, and that is not only by the rest of the world... but they want to perceive themselves as being strong and tough. Mental Illness is something most people can over come with a positive out look and sense of self awareness and self honest self reflection.
Mental illness is not something that you can just over come with a positive out look, sure some forms of depression, but depression caused by hormonal factors, BPD, associative identity disorder, and a bunch of other mental illnesses can't just be fixed with a positive outlook.
You are correct, for some people that is 100% true. But do not discount the power of ones own mind and positive thinking. If you believe you are incapable of or can not over come something then you never will.
A bunch of mental disorders can not just be fixed period, by positive attitude or medication or theory. But if there is any chance at all to beat it, you have to start with a proactive and positive can do attitude and no therapist or phycologist would tell you that a positive attitude and up beat out look is a bad thing or that it would not help... but you have to have the mental fortitude to develop that for yourself over time with help if you can not do it yourself, but nobody else can do it for you. So it starts with you, making the changes you need to make in or life to find that desired level of happiness and accomplishment.
So not sure I understand what your point is? Are you saying you do not believe in positive proactive thinking?
Oh I believe in the placebo effect, but you wouldn't tell someone with cancer that positive thinking will heal them, why would to tell someone with a mental illness that?
Because medically speaking physicians and phycologist can diagnose illness or sickness as a disorder, disease or condition.
Condition simply indicates a state of health, whether well or ill. A condition may be later treated as a disease or illness, but does not necessary mean its a disease or disorder beyond some signs or symptoms.
Disease denotes a condition characterized by functional impairment, structural change, and the presence of specific signs and symptoms.
Disorder, in contrast, denotes a condition characterized by functional impairment without structural change.
So Mental Disorder and/or illnesses are treated as disorders or conditions.. You can prescribe meds to treat the symptoms of the disorder and/or condition... ultimately in the case of mild depression there is no serious signs of an over all disorder or permanent condition... so in most cases positive thinking with some mild treatment is all that is required. It may require more than positive thinking alone, but 90% of people who suffer from depression is not due to a over arching disorder or illness.
As a non-medical professional I would stress the importance of positive thinking above all else... because honestly its going to require that type of encouragement. But making excuses or exceptions for people to scapegoat around confronting the really issue will never really help them in the long run.
Now Cancer is a straight up disease.. it causes structural damage and impairment that can only be treated medically by a physician. But even then the more positive a patient stays the more likely they will beat it.
So honestly comparing cancer to any mental illness, condition or disorder is literally like talking apples to oranges... not even in the same ball park... miles if not worlds apart.
@DaveJord You've worded it fantastically! Indeed many people with so-called "depression" aren't actually 'depressed', but rather unhappy with how things are in their life. So they either need to fix what is wrong or simply have to adapt a more optimistic lifestyle. So many people go to therapy for years and not actually make any progress when all it took them is some inspiration, introspection and active lifestyle changes to actually achieve what years of therapy couldn't. Sure I believe there are therapists who can do wonders, but from what I've seen, therapists are more about milking their patients of their money than actually helping them.
And great job debunking this girl's strawman argument! I honestly facepalmed so damn hard after she compared mental illness with having cancer. Dear Lord how many braincells I've lost reading that...
@TruthBringer lol... thanks Truth!
This is a hold over of toxic masculinity. It too will fade over time unless encouraged by culture leading to a re-infection of society. In today's climate, it is fading although still fairly normal in men 40 years and older. Less so as you get younger. Millennials and younger seem to be all but cured of such nonsense
This is a great topic.
The short answer is that the global culture doesn’t support mental health much less mental health for men.
We should encourage men to develop networks of mentors, colleagues, and friends who encourage a safe space for men to share and communicate a sense of value in there families and communities.
Regards!
*their families…
A therapist has never helped me the same way my own determination and introspection has.
I don't like talk therapy, I don't like their medication and I don't like how they try and convince me I am helpless.
It is far better for man to stand strong and stand on his own, because then the only person that can disappoint him is himself.
Yeah that can be true for some people, finding a good therapist can be really difficult and when it comes to counseling and therapy, you only really get out of it as much as you are willing to put into it.
It is/ was viewed as weak and pathetic. Obviously it’s not true but society and other men tried to tell all men to just “suck it up “ or “stop being a punk” when dealing with mental burdens and illnesses.
It’s important to remember that you are human and having a human experience through this process we call life, sometimes we all need a little help
Men are shamed by society when they come speak out about mental illness. This website is a perfect illustration of that. How many pretty
women on here shame the hell out of these lonely MGTOW guys who are clearly mentally ill? They call them pathetic losers. Women are welcomed with open arms to speak about their problems. As a man, nobody gives a shit and that’s the harsh reality.
Because no one cares. Even doctors are in it just for the money. As someone who went through depression and other stuff, there are only two ways out. 1. A woman who really supports you and is there for you. 2. You pull out yourself with effort (I took the latter). It took a hell of a lot of time and effort.
My male therapist helped me so much, so I don’t really know what you’re talking about. But I’m sorry that you weren’t able to find the support that you needed
That's great if you found help. You're a woman. It is much easier for you in that regard. Also as far as I know, you're actually an exception. For a lot of people, therapy is just a joke.
Well when it comes to therapy and you get out of it what you put into it
Once you find the right therapist
Could be. I did much better myself with self therapy.
I’m glad you were able to get better
Thank you. Same to you.
1. Because men are told to suck it up
2. Society see men as robots and not human beings.
3. Because deep down no one cares about or want to hear a man's problem. Hell most women lose attraction to their partner if he shows weakness (emotionally or physically).
Men are less likely to seek treatment for anything. Men are expected to solve their own problems, take care of their own bodies, and shoulder their own burdens. Society has no sympathy for men and no safety net for them. So the fact that men rarely ask for help is no surprise.
Because it's their normal state of being... lol
No, just kidding, please forgive me, I will never do it again, I promise :)
Because it's a sign of weakness. Weakness doesn't survive. We're taught to adapt and overcome. Weaknesses is equated with uselessness and the useless are abandoned. We're taught that men are here to protect and provide, and anything else is superfluous
I think it's due to what I call "the male ego". Before I get backlash for this.. it's NOT an insult. Men have always been expected (by society) to be strong and not show sadness or pain as it could be taken as a sign of weakness. I feel that society has deemed any man "weak" for crying, let alone seeking help for emotional or mental issues. Therefore I feel it is because of what society has instilled in their minds. I don't think it's right but unfortunately it is just the world we live in.
We live in a society where mothers raise the kids.
We can’t expect a mother to teach her boy how to be a man. If a boy is raised without male influence then how is he is expected to be a male role model for the next boy.
There needs to be more males raising their boys and we can’t force a guy to be a father because in this day and age, being a father is optional.