Do you think men have become soft compared to before?

[lavalamp87]

Do you believe men have become much more feminine and soft compared to previous generations? You hear women complaining all the time how there aren't any real men anywhere.

They have done studies on mental health of different cultures around the world, and the HEALTHIEST ones are small tribes where *shocker* men have ritualistic fighting and do things like hunt wild animals to grow up.

And then you look at our culture, where ANY kid fighting in school results in punishment and suspension/expulsion(because the teachers are 98% female and women believe any violence is the devil). You have women raising boys without a father figure and then the statistics *shocker* show that these men have the most problems in life. Is it any wonder that men have become emasculated wimps? The rugged tough guy, is usually the guy that got out of jail, and also happens to get laid more than 95% of the rest of guys out there because he has this alien thing *confidence* which he developed by breaking rules and taking risks, telling people exactly what he thinks instead of sugarcoating sh*t like everyone else does (the reason nice guys /girls fail) and not being insecure about every opinion/decision he makes.

Now its more important to "be nice" than to be honest, we have stupid bullsh*t telling everyone that "everyone's a winner" etc etc to inflate peoples egos into narcissism by "protecting their feelings", but what were actually doing is taking the easy route of lying to them instead of telling them the truth. The psychologists seemed to forget the common sense that competence is what creates confidence, not vice-versa. link

Do you think our culture turns men into softies?

Yes

No

Updates

+1 y

from tractorbeams link "The current generation of men can expect to have 35% less male hormones than their fathers did at the same age" and there you have it.. actual proof this is happening

[Otrolite]

I don't hear women complaining about that, I've heard some seriously perturbed women complaining about that. Not surprisingly, that same women complain about abusive boyfriends and always end up with guys as dumb as peanuts.

Now, about your claims. First: those "healthiest" tribes you talk about had an infant mortality over 30% and a life expectancy of 32 years. Second, NO, 98% of teachers are NOT women. More than that, the anti-violence rules in school don't come from teachers but education boards, where almost all of the people in charge are, of course, men.

Another wrong data, NO, men risen by single moms don't do worse than men raised by single dads. They might, statistically, do worse than children (male and female) risen by two parent families, and the economic factors are pretty obvious in this.

Also, I don't know what kind of people you relate with, but people who go to jail in my country usually date junkies or pay prostitutes. Women around me haven't date "the bad guy" since high school, and back then "the bad guy" was just the "biggest guy". After that, most of them have dated nice guys.

Our generation is smarter, more prepared, more knowledgeable; we have seen more world and have had more experiences than any other generation before us. Softer? That's what dumber, less prepared, less knowledgeable and short sighted men will say. Because violence is easier and anyone can do it.

This is not new, that bullsh*t about being softer than before has been repeated generation after generation. When the next generation takes over, they will be smarter and more prepared, many men will feel threatened by them and will resort to violence: "They are p******! In our time men were real men!" and all that sh*t.

Truth is, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Resorting to violence to prove you are worthy is the best proof of fear and mental softness. Wits, intelligence, wisdom, leadership... those are real men (and women) attributes. Violence? So, some guy outsmarted you, did better in life but... of course you could beat the sh*t out of him (or so you thing) so you're better... sure... sure...

[LauraMarx]

Like, I know you're right about those tribes being unhealthy. But can we talk about like, the reason the tribes & nomadic people & so on are so so so unhealthy is because of Imperialism, invasion, theft & purposeful creation of droughts, etc. etc. - and, that Imperialism is the perfect example of the bullsh*t violence that is QA's violence. Oppressor violence, turning on the most vulnerable for, whatever. To show you're masculine.

[lavalamp87]

hahhh nice try but you fail. first of all, read what I said.. I said MENTALLY healthy, not who lives the longest etc. If Americans are considered 80% depressed, how the f*** can you say were better off than a tribe full of happy people that psychologists detereminded are MUCH happier than the average citizen in America? If you haven't heard women complaining about how wimpy men are these days, then you must be deaf.

Actually, men raised by single moms do in fact do worse statistically than raise

[lavalamp87]

d by single dads. Look it up instead of just saying "NO" Our generation is not smarter. You confuse standardized testing and the availability of technology with intelligence, which actually has not risen.

If you think women go for nice guys after high school, you are quite clueless and retarded. Women USE nice guys and will continue to for as long as mankind exists, but they aren't attracted to them. There are plenty of studies showing that women will get pregnant by a "bad" guy and use a nice g

[Otrolite]

No, that's not the reason. Those tribes had unhealthy practices and a lack of general knowledge about the world. The same happened in Europe, the invaders, in the 15th century. Now we know better, we live longer and better lives. And for those of us who aren't scared of trying, we live far more fulfilling lives than collecting berries, hunting rabbits and pray to ancient gods so that they don't get mad and send illnesses to our family. QA talks like an octogenarian, that's sad for people his age

[LauraMarx]

dude they're mentally healthier because of collectivism not because of violence lmao

[LauraMarx]

Oh right so you're actually just a colonialist piece of sh*t who blames colonised people for their own oppression. You're no better than the QA. You're literally on the same side.

[lavalamp87]

uy to raise the child. Don't believe it? Go look it up p****, they even estimate that one out of every 3 children has a different biological father because of this. The reason older generations say we are p******, is because we are. They see us bitching and moaning about the stupidest sh*t and they had a much harder life. Guys who think violence is all evil like yourself like to demonize it, but its funny that men all love watching UFC, and that they even have studies showing people who fight

[lavalamp87]

are more mentally healthy ... WOW how do you explain that one?

[Otrolite]

QA, you're the one who should look it up (and read what I wrote). Children (male AND female) risen by single parents (father OR mother) do, statistically (trick trick), worse. And that's related to the economic and social factors, not because they risen by women (which, by the way, is how things worked in your beloved ancient tribes). And no, only perturbed women keep going after bad guys after high school. In the specific case of delinquents, in my country they only date thrashy women.

[lavalamp87]

You see, in this pussified generation you have losers like this guy that want to defend all the crybabbies while the evidence spits in the face of everything you are saying. Instead of thinking you just slap some label on me and then judge me.. lol and you're the loser tryign to talk about not fighting and being violent yet you pull that immature sh*t. Very nice display of character

[lavalamp87]

I did look it up.. way before I wrote this post. And no, in ancient times boys would work with their dads at an early age, starting to hunt etc. LOL only perturbed women eh? So you're basically calling all women perturbed because they all loved 50 shades of grey. You are completely clueless on how women actually are if you believe in that bullsh*t

[Otrolite]

Who told you they were mentally healthier? Being constantly scared of getting sick (some kind of magical thing that kills people without any visible wound), constantly stressed about climate and crops, constantly worried about getting food and shelter... They might be less depressed, but I don't change existential angst by fear of dying out of starvation, cold or mysterious illnesses.

[Otrolite]

So you're one of those who don't understand the difference between fantasy and reality? Try to BSDM one of those millions who loved 50 shades & see what happens... But hey, apparently I'm the immature here, only because I understand what violence brings and what are the skills and attitudes that made humans so successful. Hint: we are not discussing in the Internet because one guy hit another guy. It doesn't matter how many times or in how many ways you call me a looser, it doesn't make it true.

[Otrolite]

Laura, I don't know where you read I'm a colonist or where I blamed colonized people for being colonized, I just made a recollection of facts. War and conquest have been part of the human societies, ALL OF THEM, throughout the time. It has bring pain and suffering but also good things, history is complex and things aren't just black or white. You might want to take a look at this: link

[lavalamp87]

no one "told" me, I did this thing called reading an actual study. You should try it sometime. And yes, their simpler and more natural lifestyle is exactly why they are healthier mentally. The same thing applied to native Americans before we wiped them out. But no, the dean of the behavioral pyschology department at my university is an idiot, and this rando mloser on the internet knows better than him! Hahaha actually this might be a shocker to you but, what people fantasize abotu is something t

[lavalamp87]

hey actually long for in real life. Wow crazy huh? If you don't think tons of women who seem innocent on the outside are complete sluts in the bedroom, you're obviously one of the men they will never show that side to. Its funny when some guy who sucks with women tries to comment on womens fantasies.. right OK expert. Girls masturbating themselves to a book on bdsm is because they DONT like it ..lol I called you a loser because you tried to judge me while insulting me several times indirectly

[lavalamp87]

before I had said anything rude to you. So, maybe try to stop being a hypocrite. Bahahah what a clueless idiot abotu women and kinky sex...

[Otrolite]

Projecting a little? Thought so...

[LauraMarx]

Uhhhhhh. You're the one talking in black and white, here. You are saying, 'we have dealt successfully with problems they have not and so have become civilized.' That's a. the colonial position, and b. way way way way oversimplified. Though you dress, and are able to do so effectively on this question because you're being contrary, your view as something critical and even radical, it is no different than what has always been taught. He glorifies and exoticises 'tribal culture' and so he is a---

[LauraMarx]

colonialist. You berate and belittle colonised cultures, ignoring the material conditions that created their current position in the global climate & their inability to deal with disaster and the like, and so you are a colonialist.

I am saying to you: dig into those material conditions! Why do they have so-called 'unhealthy practices and a lack of general knowledge'? You cannot simply dismiss the mateiral conditions as 'war and strife' - it's a systematic imperialism that continues to this---

[LauraMarx]

day, which is not simply 'war and strife', it is not the same as a military game between aristocrats for land. It is the systematic invasion, subjugation and exploitation of nations. These are the material conditions which are not so black and white. It is not their fault that they are brutalised and exploited so. And when they do rise up and throw it off, and deal with it effectively which you so believe they should as if they were good Europeans, you, no doubt, dismiss their nations as---

[LauraMarx]

dictatorships.

[Otrolite]

See, you are reading a lot of things I didn't say in my words, and you are deeply deeply wrong. Yes, I've said primitive cultures were primitive. Primitive native Americans, Chinese and, also, I'VE EXPLICITLY MENTIONED EUROPEANS. Yes, Europe brought advancements to a lot of primitive cultures in the later round of colonization, the same way Romans, Arabics, Fenicians, Greeks, Mongols (look the video I linked, seriously) and so on, did back in the day. Progress work that way some times. But then,

[Otrolite]

as it has always happened, people who are not completely comfortable with their place in society, glorifies those cultures and assign them imaginary attributes, completely overlooking all their problems and struggle (which are not problems anymore, so they don't even consider them, like one in 4 women dying during childbirth). In this particular case, QA says they didn't have existential crisis, totally overlooking that most of them didn't reach old age and all their mental energy was focused on

[LauraMarx]

I'm not watching the video. I know the history of Imperialism. That's not how it worked. First: quit saying primitive. Second: when the British landed in America, the natives had *vastly* superior technology. They had vastly superior medicine, agriculture, city structure, etc. The British took it all from them. The native Americans were at a higher stage during the fall of Rome than England were at when they arrived on Turtle Island.

[Otrolite]

basic survival. When you're born to be a farmer, the same as your father, your father's father, and all the way back 10 generations... that doesn't leave you much space to consider your place in the world. Without a choice there's no place for worrying about your choices. Life was simpler, no doubt, and that has its advantages (you always know what to expect), but also its drawbacks (not many opportunities for self-realization and a more dangerous life).

[Otrolite]

No, you better don't watch it, you might learn something. That crap about superior technology, medicine, agriculture, city structures, is the glorified bullsh*t I was talking about. NO THEY DIDN'T. Back then (XVI century) all medicine was crappy, theirs included. European technology and architecture was far superior, so it was their war techniques and technologies (weapons, strategy, training...). That's why they practically exterminated the native civilizations being numerically far inferior.

[Otrolite]

And yes, I say "primitive" because that's the right terminology. Primitive Europe, primitive Asia, primitive America... yes, primitive cultures. Our current culture began to develop during the Age of Enlightenment, when we put knowledge before myths and developed science. Smart move, IMO. You can see some interesting changes rooting in that age.

[lavalamp87]

otrolite, laura might be a numbskull but you're far worse if you're trying to say native American culture wasn't better than ours. They have LOTS of proof of how much healthier and happier they were than us. Are you really so stupid to argue that our 66% obese nation with 80% of our population being depressed is better just because of technology? You want to know how many obese native Americans there were? practically none. They were FAR healthier, which is why they didn't have the immune buildup of

[lavalamp87]

all the nasty European diseases we brought over. You can tell the dean of behavioral psychology at my university that he's an idiot since you are obviously more accredited and smart than him (he only spoke to the entire communist party at China about American culture)

[LauraMarx]

lmao, we're agreed on this one QA (apart from the blatant fatphobia and the appeal to authority)

[Otrolite]

I don't know what the dean of behavioral psychology says, I know what you say: bullsh*t. I'm more willing to believe that you're the typical nutcase who didn't get a thing of what your professor said. And no, they weren't healthier. We live longer and better lives, fat or not. If you want to live like them, be my guest. Just go to some lost forest and make a living out of what you get there. I bet almost anyone prefers the problems associated with industrialized society (and its advantages)

[Otrolite]

that those related to hunter/gatherer societies. But hey, you can always become a hermit. You won't be the first nor the last one.

[lavalamp87]

No, that is what the dean says and he's right. American culture is garbage and idiots like you love to think were so much better off, yet people in much more primitive cultures are more mentally and emotionally healthy than we are. Ill let the dean know some random arrogant loser on the internet knows better than him. Maybe china will invite you this year to teach them your infinite wisdom

[mike5150]

It is because society has become more softer as a whole and we teach children especially men now that it is better to be soft. Children growing up now are taught it's alright to cry, in the old days if your a grown man and you are seen crying in public they would have the loony wagon out ready to take you away. Also the everyone one is a winner philasophy as well. Every kid that participates is special and is a winner in there own little way, every kid must recieve a trophy for merit of there hard work. It provides delusional thinking, these kids may have high self esteem but once they start walking around with there chest puffed out and expect the world to hand them something and they don't recieve it then they don't know how to handle it because they were taught growing up that they were all winners and something special.

I remember a kid when I was 13 started a fight with me and I punched him in the nose so hard he had to get his nose reset back into place. I ended up getting the police called on me, suspended and threatend to be expelled. And the principal told me if someone tries to fight you curl into a ball and take a beating. Bullsh*t. That is a p**** way of dealing with something. Now I will not fight unless I really have to but for f*** sake when someone attacks you first you have to break that son of a bitch in two or else you will get treated like that forever,

[lavalamp87]

amen. glad someone else gets it

[Thermia]

I'm glad my boyfriend isn't violent, rude, crude, and mean to me. Compared to the bad boys I've had, he is infinitely better. As our society becomes more modern, people look for different traits in a mate and violent brutish men aren't sought after as much anymore by certain types of women. We don't need a big strong guy to go out and punch and stab an elk to death to bring home to our cave, we need an intelligent and mentally stable man who solves problems non violently to go to work at some business and help provide for the kids without the fear of him hitting us. To me, violence isn't necessary except in self defense and if I really want to see blood and guts, I'll rent a horror movie or some violent video game.

[lavalamp87]

its funny cause nowhere did I ever advocate guys being mean and cruel to women. People cannot decide who they are attracted to, and its funny how many stupid people try to say things like they choose who they like .. uhh hello? your body chooses, not your rational mind. That's why girls say they like nice guys but end up with someone they actually FEEL something for.

[Thermia]

I think it is rude to assume I'm not going to be with my boyfriend for the long haul and that I may not actually feel anything for him, even though I do. Many of your comments are generalizations and stereotypes which do not apply to individuals. Our mind is a part of our body, no? It doesn't exist outside us. Physical attraction is important, I give you that, but compatibility between minds is also very important for a long lasting relationship. I'm not attracted to idiots.

[lavalamp87]

if you're saying its rude to assume things, then I say look back at your original answer, which is full of rude assumptions. I also did not say that for you personally that you're dating a nice guy and will end up leaving him. In general, girls think they want a nice guy and then when they get one they get bored and long for a more passionate and exciting relationship. hence why women engage in so many affairs

[lavalamp87]

girls always give these "i should like this type of guy" answers but then when you look at reality its far different. That's why you DID date several bad guys, because you were attracted to them. You can say anything you want, but that's the proof in the pudding

[Thermia]

"its funny cause nowhere did I ever advocate guys being mean and cruel to women."

You didn't need to. When I think of a soft man, I think of a non violent being who won't abuse me mentally and physically, who won't get into physical fights with people, and solves problems with his mind and not his fists. Having confidence or no confidence has been prevalent for thousands of years or longer so I'm not thinking it is a new thing to be socially awkward with women or other people.

[lavalamp87]

ugh, but you are implying that a guy that isn't soft is violent, rude, crude etc. That's not at all the case. Look at the posts from guys on this site about how they are wondering if they are ugly or some other insecurity. That is what a soft guy is, and it is an entirely new thing for so many men to behave like insecure women.

[Thermia]

I don't see rude assumptions in my original post, but if I offended you I'm sorry. Blanking statements about women lumps me into your group of thinking, which I do not feel I am a part of anymore now that I've matured. I was attracted to two bad boys in my life when I was just starting my dating life in high school and over a short amount of time realized and learned they were not what I wanted in a partner. From those first experiences, I would never go for those type of people again.

[lavalamp87]

again, you're implying that attraction is a choice when it is anything but.

[Thermia]

Social media makes it very easy to anonymously ask questions that were perhaps buried or silenced before the internet. Insecurity goes far back into history for both genders, but it wasn't written all over Facebook or GAG because that didn't exist. Humans are social beings and want acceptance from their peers. Of course, there were men and women in the past that didn't need validation from others, and found it within themselves. The same is true today. Varieties of personalities exist.

[Thermia]

Then I must be living some fake fantasy life and none of my real experiences and choices mean anything to you because they don't fit your mold. Maybe I'm the only woman in the whole wide world that thinks this way and makes choices like this, but I'm extremely attracted to my handsome softy of a boyfriend and I've never felt so compatible with a person in my entire life. I guess that is all I can say.

[lavalamp87]

its easy to say its always been that way because it makes everything simpler and easy to digest so you can just forget about it. the reality is that it was not this way at all even just 40 years ago. That link I already showed you is from that previous generation and they did not have kids who sat around feeling sorry for themselves like we have in todays world.

[lavalamp87]

they also did not have a skyrocket of depression and suicide rates like we have today. Oh but lets just say its always been this way so we can ignore the problem! good display of human nature

[lavalamp87]

and abotu your boyfriend, you are acting like you looked at someone and decided to be attracted to them. uh hello? human beings cannot choose how their body responds to someone else, and you can sit there and say all these shoulds and shouldnts but in the end what matters is the chemistry you feel with them. You're boyfriend probably isn't an actual softy as we are discussing here because I don't see him posting on this site about why nobody loves him.

[Thermia]

Your link probably has some truth to it but I don't think it paints the whole picture so I've been googling in the meantime. Also saying its always been this way doesn't mean ignore the problem, I'm just acknowledging that it isn't new

[lavalamp87]

thats exactly the same thing.. it IS new because previous generations never had this problem.

[Thermia]

You must be misinterpreting my responses because I agreed with you earlier that part of attraction is physical attraction to a person, which I feel with my boyfriend, but that attraction would not last long if he was dumb as bricks. The mental compatibility makes him long term and worth having sex with.

[Thermia]

It did exist in previous generations. There wasn't 0% insecurity 0% suicides 0% whining back then. Social media makes it easier for the public to see this stuff and kind of normalizes it within the current generation because of the instant validation through the internet.

[lavalamp87]

no, there wasn't 0% but there was FAR less of it. That first link already told you that. The previous generations dealt with those things in a more simple way that was actually more effective. That's what you seem to be missing, that these are indeed newfound problems due to our modern culture. Suicide and depression rates increasing means that obviously SOMETHING is causing it, and its not something that always existed and we now just see it more, otherwise the rates would be stagnant

[Thermia]

Well I believe there is more to it than just 'psychology'. That is such a broad term and it didn't really elaborate on it much. I need to go to bed but thanks for the chat. You've brought up some points worth researching further.

[lavalamp87]

ok, cya

[Anonymous]

I think our culture is making everyone soft these days. Crybaby mentality is often condoned and even encouraged. People are no longer taught, generally speaking, to defend themselves. They're taught to tattle, sue, etc. People don't seem to want to handle life's troubles alone.

Men AND women seemed to be so much tougher back in the day. I can't imagine some of us surviving what they did. We're SO spoiled.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for BA.

[lavalamp87]

very good point, although I do think it is slightly different for men and women. in general though its the norm to complain about your life and fish for sympathy from other people. I think a good amount of that comes from corporate businesses having the "customer is always right" attitude, which praises complete a**holes when they deserve the opposite. I do think though, that men suffer more from the general "softening" of society, mainly because its the opposite of our masculinity

[lavalamp87]

and by that I don't mean we deserve sympathy. what I mean is that men being more soft makes them more depressed and unfulfilled with their lives(why guys love the movie fight club), whereas a girl being more soft isn't really going to negatively affect her in the same way. Its totally acceptable for a girl to be a crybaby

[Opinion Owner]

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[lavalamp87]

huh? you lost me

[Opinion Owner]

Fight Club

[lavalamp87]

but doesn't he never say his own name?

[lavalamp87]

ive seen it a lot I just don't rmber that line!

[Opinion Owner]

You've never seen the film, have you? Haha!

That was a direct quote from the film.

link

[lavalamp87]

so yah, in summary men are p****** and so are women, BUT women can get away with it.. men will be shamed and judged until they make a fight club

[1xadzy3dgSG]

Yes, yes, yes. Oh my God, yes.

[lavalamp87]

1xadzy keep it down someones gonna hear and you're gonna get caught again

[LauraMarx]

lmao you got your best answer taken away from you. And given to a man! haawww haawwwww

[lavalamp87]

her answer is great, I just think his is more to do with the subject

[LauraMarx]

and written by a man c'mon that's pretty much why ;)

[lavalamp87]

nope, has nothing to do with it. his answer was about the actual topic

[Opinion Owner]

Haha! No worries :-)

[RosaliaVanderbilt]

Yes, men have become softer. I completely agree with this. But then again, women have become LESS soft. As genders are equalized, men become more feminine and women become more masculine. It's sad, I think. I'm all for modernity, but then you have people encouraging their boys to play with barbies and raising genderless children and I'm just like WTF

[lavalamp87]

yah, the whole genderless idea is stupid. Obviously there are differences in hormonal levels in males and females, so trying to push this retarded "genderless" sh*t is way out of place and more damaging than helpful. Men feel better when they are allowed to be masculine, and women when they feel feminine. Its obviously natural in every other species yet ours seems to think we can bypass nature by thinking up stupid ideas

[Tractorbeam]

I think you're right about men becoming soft,but there's more to it than just the cultural environment and a nanny state.They may just be the symptoms,and not the cause.

Average male hormone levels are decreasing at about 1% per year.The current generation of men can expect to have 35% less male hormones than their fathers did at the same age.

You can blame a lot of this on chemicals that have been used for the last 50 years.Things like flouridated water and pesticides (which are now right through the food chain and in the plants and animals you eat),and even the chemicals in plastics.

link

If you go back even further,before these chemicals there were cast iron pipes containing manganese.The pipes were used for drinking water,and the manganese made men more agressive.They were tougher,but maybe a little nastier.

The modern diet doesn't help much either.Apart from junk food and food with chemicals,even fruit and vegetables grown now have less nutrition than ever.High-yield/low-nutrition crops grown with chemical fertilizer in depleted soils have 1/2 or less the nutrition,compared older varieties grown in healthy soil.

The nanny state has a lot to answer for,but so do the chemical companies.Men are becoming more weak and timid than ever before.

[lavalamp87]

that is a pretty scary scenario were living in

[Armada]

Yes. I guess "soft" is one way of putting it. I think we're allowed to expression a little more emotion than before. I could NEVER imagine enduring what my old man had to get to this country (America). Fighting does not make you a man, in fact, it makes you a damn idiot. I got picked on a lot growing up and avoided fighting because I was able to be a man and walk away.

I also find it weird you equate being a man is getting your butt touched in prison just so you can get some p**** on the outside. I believe part of being a man is being able to balance a woman's needs while retaining your sense of self.

I don't really know where you're getting this whole, everyone is sugar coating idea from but it sounds to me you have never worked a day in your life. If you're referring to children in this sense then yes, I DO think it's better teachers and caretakers are "sugar coating" things for them. I don't want some random idiot belittling my child. It's not a teacher's place to teach my kid, it is mine and you bet your ass I'll tell them what's good.

[lavalamp87]

You can believe whatever you want dude, the reality is girls go for bad boys, and they agree with me by a landslide. 20 to 4 to be exact. I never said being a man is about going to prison, I made an example of someone who isn't afraid to break rules and you took it as literal because you can't grasp the bigger picture and are an immature f*****.

If you don't think everyone sugarcoats and guys are wimps, just read a few male "questions" on

Everyone does sugarcoat, fighting is considered a sin and

[lavalamp87]

here. ITs mostly guys displaying how insecure they are because, unlike previous generations, no one ever kicked their ass for being a p****(which would actually have been good for them). Instead they get pampered and their whiny attitude is encouraged and praised.

[Armada]

Again with the ass touching to prove you're a man. It honestly sounds like you are venting, guy. I go to this forum for advice, not to completely base my opinion off of. Like I stated before, being a man is far more complex than being an emotionless jerk off. I didn't sugar coat anything in my answer and here you are still acting like a little bitch. What is it that you want exactly?

[lavalamp87]

hahaha you are living proof of how wimpy men are these days. Keep instigating sh*t like a total coward on the internet, and then talk like you know what it meansto be a man LOL hilarious!

[xjesspandax]

Maybe its just because so many women are into dominating guys in their sexual-fantasy lives and traditional 'soft' men just don't throw them around a little like in the good old days of bodice-rippers.

[lavalamp87]

yah, the rough tough side that women long for is going extinct because a lot of feminists try to castrate men psychologically.

[Levin]

What you're describing is an outward expression of the prevailing paradigm and changing fashions, being perpetually in conflict with those of the past (which you appear to attach yourself to).

The real battle is, and has always been, psychological.

And men who don't face their greatest fears and inner tumult, still on the whole, aren't going to get laid.

So you needn't worry. Darwinism is still in full swing.

[lavalamp87]

uh, where are you basing any of that off of? Its not a fashion shift, men in todays world are much more feminine and scared to go for women than previous generations. Its really that simple

[Levin]

Yes, but what of it? There's many things better, and many things worse, about the society we are living in. Tastes, fashions, philosophies, by their very nature, are transitory. I think we should look for deeper themes. And generally, as I say, natural selection is still occurring (if that is important to you), for the reasons I described.

[lavalamp87]

no one said anything about the other aspects of society. This topic is soley on how men have become softer and possible reasons why.

[LauraMarx]

Men have become softer because 'tastes, fashions, philosophies, by their very nature, transitory.' What was hard has become soft, what was soft has dissipated into oblivion, and so on. So Levin is saying: everything is in flux! Everything has always changed. I agree with him, old Heraclitus here. (Though I would add: philosophies, fashions and tastes are transitory because they arise from the ever-progressing productive forces)

[lavalamp87]

lol.. such vague bullsh*t babble. Just write a poem about it Laura

[LauraMarx]

...? This is literally materialism? This is less vague than mathematics?

[LauraMarx]

dude if you're far left you should not be objecting to my use of Historical Materialism as 'vague'

[Levin]

Laura, this is not really relevant, but you might find this interesting, as a person who seems genuinely curious. I'm really not arguing that yin and yang, the metaphor of the two polar opposites, which can be applied to real life, say hard/soft, left/right, weak/strong, active/passive, hot/cold, etc; that either one or the other is a better strategy. I remember a quote from a daoist text somewhere, *not* the dao de jing I think, along the lines of,

[Levin]

'there is no dichotomy, only coming and going'. Both are valid strategies in their own right. One has its ascendancy, then the other does, and they alternate, if one looks back objectively, over a longer period of time. Soon as one favours one, one becomes enmeshed within its fold, and then blind to the virtues and weaknesses of the other. I have martial arts video, which perfectly illustrates my point, and can be obviously extrapolated.

[Levin]

link I should say, this is only my interpretation. I might have misunderstood it. Sorry if this is crudely written, I'm tired. You're clever. You'll be okay with my babbling. lavalamp. you're welcome to join in with our discussion too.

[toulouse]

No. I' m also against bullying. violence other than for self defense(not to be confused with rough housing ) torture. genocide. slavery, rape, gang bangs, invasions, your basic garden variety imperialist mentality of your cherished yesteryear.

The rugged tough guy is bullsh*t definition brought in during the cold war to promote us Hegemony. doesn't exist. you're only here because human beings lived in communities and helped each other instead of killing each other.

lifeis full of risks you don't have to look for them. and if you want to fight go ahead. wrestling . boxing, I like fencing, there's a lot of outlets or aggressive feelings without killing people.

If you want to go live in a small tribe you better get off the computer because you won't be using any... maybe they are happy because thy breathe fresh air and don't sit on their ass all day.

btw the marlborough man died of lung cancer.

[lavalamp87]

yes of course you're against bullying.. because its better to make people repress their aggression and end up shooting the school rather than some healthy fighting which actually cures things before they end up to a high school shooting. The black and white thinking of violence=bad is so insanely stupid and unrealistic. Open your eyes and wake up from kindergarden

[LauraMarx]

lmfao. An argument for bullying. Wow. Even the YouTube user called 'the Holocauster' is against bullying. You're on a whole new level, man

[lavalamp87]

actually, defending someone who gets bullied instead of teaching them the strength to deal with it themselves is exactly what's wrong with our culture. Just like sparrow was addressing, people tattle, sue etc instead of having any character(which gets developed through hardship). Bullying can make someone into a stronger person

[john52461]

did you really need to mention the cold war and hegemony... :/

[lavalamp87]

I also find it funny how she and every other moron thinks any fighting = killing. Right I said people should kill each other MANY times in my original post!

[Thermia]

Lots of suicides due to bullying. I bet you'll go on and call it natural selection.

[lavalamp87]

no, suicides are more to due with psychology which pampers and grows problems instead of helping the person link

[Thermia]

Not enough elaboration in that information so I would have to hunt for their sources and be convinced by multiple studies showing the same trend. Bullying does make thousands of kids want to commit suicide every year regardless.

[lavalamp87]

right but the point is it wouldn't in older times. in older times they would be far more likely to not let it get to them. That book is a 5 star rated parenting commentary, there is no bullsh*t information in it. After psychology told parents about "self esteem" and loads of other bullsh*t, depression rates and suicide rates went up. There are plenty of statistics available to see it just based the year.

[lavalamp87]

the biggest mistake people make is being nice to someone who is in a negative state of mind, which actually ENCOURAGES it. yes, in the most basic conditioning response, kids learn from an early age(because of retarded psychology) that being sad and moping gets them praise and attention.. which actually ruins them in the long run. That is why todays generation have so many more "issues" than previous ones did

[lavalamp87]

because they get constant encouragement to mope and feel down. A harsher "get the f*** over it" hurts at first, but cures the problem in the long run. That's what they did in the past and that's what worked for thousands upon thousands of years

[Thermia]

That didn't work when one of my depressed friends decided to commit suicide anyways. I was just getting tired of their moping so I got harsh towards the end of his life because I didn't think his problems were the end of the world and he can get past them, but he took it as permission to end his life and it caught me off guard because I didn't expect that at all. If I could go back I would take all of my teasing back.

[lavalamp87]

it does work but that is not what you did because you were not his mom. You seemed to have missed the point that the harsh part is in raising a kid to strengthen them, not teasing someone who is an adult that is already screwed up due to a whole lifetime of idiot psychologists conditioning parents to weaken their kids.

[lavalamp87]

also I have a hard time seeing how you can say this person was bullied, you were one of the people teasing them yet you call them your "friend". doesn't really add up

[Thermia]

I told him to get over it because being nice and positive didn't seem to work, he was still moping and didn't do anything to better himself, so I was trying a new strategy to get him on track. There was no malice behind it, I just wanted him to do better for himself. He wasn't depressed because of bullying, he was depressed because of his life circumstances.

[lavalamp87]

Yah but at that point it was too late to do that. I'm saying its something that needs to be learned early on as a kid.

[Jordahn]

Are guys becoming more feminine? So, lazy = feminine? Ouch! There isn't as much need to hunt and fight now, so people tend to get sort of spoiled complacent. We have a lot of luxuries so we're not getting as much exercise, and we have ample resources, so we're not required to fight for what we have. It doesn't mean guys are becoming feminine, society is just becoming lazy. When people are deprived of luxuries, they'll overcome though.

[jmurk]

It depends. Some Women complain about there aren't no real men anymore, but that's not always the case . A real man knows what a real woman is and a real woman knows what a real man is. You have all these people out here (both men and women) who complain about not having a real man or woman , when they aren't real themselves.

[Eiffelgirl21]

lol I just don't think men can win either way. haha

[jmurk]

Nope they never can.

[emzy-89]

Yes. What's with guys these days wearing skin-tight jeans with an even tighter cardigan? That's what I wear! lol.

[asianfreak]

Yes, because too many men have allowed women to control so many aspects of their lives that they're no longer capable of displaying true manhood. This is especially true in relationships where often the man wants to do a thing or a few things, but the woman for whatever reason won't allow it.

[toricakes]

So many men act like girls mf slot of girls act like men. It's sad

[Eiffelgirl21]

lol yep

[ArabianPwincess197]

I did an essay on this for Sociology. Yes men have gotten in touch with their feminine side. Where earlier men didn't even hug each other - they do that now.

[Eiffelgirl21]

It depends really.

Politically: YES

Relationship-wise: NO

[lavalamp87]

uh what? 99.9% of world leaders are still men..

Its the relationship aspect that is suffering. Men are way more wimpy and needy than before and girls are getting frustrated as hell about it

[Eiffelgirl21]

um, LOL that is because you are on this site too much. if you look beyond this site, men are a**holes. they are not at all soft..unless they are unattractive or insecure. and even then, they aren't.

I am looking at it differently than you are.

Politically? Um just because they are leaders, doesn't mean they aren't soft. I am looking at how liberal our world has gotten. Ya..they have gotten soft. Before, women didn't even have rights...

[lavalamp87]

nah, its not this site, its everywhere. That's why the vast majority of the girls agreed with me here. You are probably only focusing on the a**holes which is why you think they are not soft.. but the majority are.

And politically, people in leadership positions are soft? what are you talking about.. Our world being more liberal has nothing to do with men being more soft, and anyone who gets into a high authority position is anything but soft or they would have been churned out long before.

[Eiffelgirl21]

I am not defining soft as you are. Obviously.

[lavalamp87]

then get with the progrram.. this is my question so stay in context

[Eiffelgirl21]

Lol everyone has their OWN perception of things. That is what makes everyone different . Why don't you get over that;-)

[lavalamp87]

fine maybe I will?! >: \

[cheesesteak7]

blame the baby boomers, duh.

[john52461]

They will go down in history as the worst scum of the earth generation to have ever lived in this universe

[lavalamp87]

lol yep. They were the most spoiled because after the war their parents gave them everything, and in return they screwed their kids the most. Their free education? they all voted to cut that out of our generation.. f***ing jerks

[cheesesteak7]

well, that's part of it lol. But really the baby boomers were the ones who became the hippies. And this current Generation Y or trophy generation of softies are the result of being raised by hippies or the children of hippies.

[cheesesteak7]

but not just the raising, but the trickle effects on the culture itself. Don't hit on women or they'll yell "rape". Girls don't appreciate chivalry as much anymore. etc etc.

[lavalamp87]

very true

[evenlift]

I agree with you. And, as you imply, I think it's because masculinity just isn't celebrated any more.

[washize]

No its just socially acceptable for men to express their interest and emotions now.

[Lj238]

So you just said it's better to be the tough guy who goes to jail? Lol

[lavalamp87]

who gets laid more than everyone else? duh

[Lj238]

That's a dumb mindset you have

[lavalamp87]

lets see.. having sex with many many beautiful women... or barely getting one or two like you. nah I think its pretty logical, which is why most bad boys are who they are

[Lj238]

Doing illegal stuff and going to jail to get girls to sleep with you, sounds like a fantastic idea...

[Lj238]

...

[LauraMarx]

lmfao.

[Lj238]

I know lol. Too many idiots on the internet lol

[Belleoftheball]

ABSOLUTELY

[lavalamp87]

can you elaborate why you think so?

[LauraMarx]

she wants to make me sad obvs :(

[lavalamp87]

no she just isn't into wimpy guys like you laura. most women like men with a backbone that don't kiss your ass just to get you to like them

[Hamburgers]

Thank the feminists.

[LauraMarx]

you're welcome :)

[Hamburgers]

We men aren't the recipient of "soft men."

You women are the recipients of soft men. :)

No need to "you're welcome" me. :)

[lavalamp87]

haha nice comeback! they all say they want the soft nice guy, but once they get what they THOUGHT they wanted, they realize how boring and unhappy the relationship is!

[Eiffelgirl21]

I don't want to thank them.

[Elfahkery]

Yes because society and the environment it self

[yaddayaddayadda02]

Completely.