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The 'Meh' of ANOTHER American Gun Massacre (Page 2)
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The gun issue has been decided. There is no political will by congress or people for gun laws. Most states are loosening gun laws, not making them more strict thank god. If they worked, they would have already. Every time a new gun law pops up, it's touted its going to save the world. Then it does nothing, just like the rest of them. People react with total emotion and no brains. They have no understanding of guns or gun laws. After working with gun laws for 17 years, you'd think I'd understand them a little but I only get attacked. So, don't be informed, I don't care. I'll keep my guns, come try to take them 😉
what i find funny (if one could find anything funny about these sort of things) is that whenever they occur, you have pro gun guys swooping in to say "now is not the time to talk about gun control"... but the genius of this statement is that mass shootings happen on an almost daily basis in the USA, so you basically can't ever talk about it by their logic. I swear, american's treat their guns like they treat their spouses. Wouldn't be surprised if their AK's had a seat at the dinner table
Thank you for this! I really agree with what you're saying here. In my country you need to have a special license to be allowed to own any fire arms. And those who do, usually have the guns for hunting. For me the thought of having guns being so easily accessible very frightening... Gun control is important, and the way you put it into words is great. And my symphonies goes out to the victims families...
NRA is gun manufactures propaganda outlet. They have effictvley littered the airways with their lies. Most gun owners favor stricter background checks at the very least.
This is a hate crime first and foremost.
Agree, against Gay people that was so avoidable
A background check doesn't stop people from picking up a gun. Many guns are obtained from friends and such I bet.
@red324 so what is your solution? Don't have background check? Waiting period? Closing gun show loopholes?
@red324 If this is the case it shows how absurd the gun controls are. I can be a complete nutjob with a real gripe against a group but I can go get a mate to arm me to the teeth...
@red324 in this case this guy bought his guns legally. but there are other solutions other than background checks. re-institute the assault rifle ban. ban certain types of ammo and clip sales. Instituting strict penalties for gun owners who's guns are in other (non-registered) users hands and committing crimes. or end the legal sale of guns period. ... just saying there are other options beyond background checks, which you are right don't completely address the issue
The problem with your argument is that the government has absolutely no authority whatsoever to regulate firearms under our constitution. Every single gun law on the books today is illegal and was created by an abuse of power. The Bill of Rights are natural rights, meaning they are endowed by our creator and not a government or a document and cannot ever be taken from us. Background checks deny people rights, which the government has no authority to do under our constitutional system. We as a people need to stand up to the powers that be when they abuse their power, even when they are abusing it in a way we happen to like.
@madhatters4 You can ban them, but they're still in existence. Do you really think the guy who killed all those people would care that his assault riffle is illegal? The real question is how did all these assault riffles get sold to the public in the first place? As far as I know these were made for war so they should only belong to the government and should be returned back to the government when not in use. Joe blow doesn't need an assault riffle to shoot at his beer can at his house.
Also made for government agencies, None of the government agencies should be allowed to bring their
weapons home either. They should be locked up in some type of storage safe
@red324 you seem to be agreeing with my point that assault rifles should not be sold. NO this guy may not care about procuring his gun illegally but perhaps it would make it harder for him to buy one or he may not get it at all. obviously a ban on guns or even an assault rifle ban won't solve all the issues but neither will doing nothing.
my simple opinion is we can't sit back and say how terrible something is and then do NOTHING about it.
Background checks are already in place. If you purchase from a FFL, yes even at a gun show, you will be run against several databases. Is it possible to expand background checks further? Maybe. But Omar Mateen passed a background check. Tight background checks would not have stopped him. What would have? Maybe if FBI agents were trained to recognize signs of radicalization, he would have been caught during the period he was under FBI investigation. That's right, the FBI agents who checked Mateen out were not trained to recognize the basics of radical Islamic theology because of a climate of political correctness. I will agree that this was a hate crime. Based in hate driven by radical Islam.
Funny how the Pulse was supposed to be a gun free zone...
This attack had nothing to do with guns and everything to do with religious fanaticism. Placing the blame elsewhere adds to the problem.
Did gun control help in the Paris attacks? No no it did not.
a guy that has been described by an ex wife as disturbed, on the FBI watch list but was still able to buy an AK47...
'agree'- all to do with 'fanaticism'
I used to think guns were stupid and Americans were morons for having so many.
I realise I've been mistaken.
Removing guns won't do a thing.
So the two are mutually exclusive? He can't be disturbed and aslo a religious fanatic? Why was he on the watch list?
@WombRaider where guns have been removed crime has increased in the US. That is fact.
@BelleGirl21
I think it's absurd to believe this has nothing to do with guns.
He was on the watch list and was described as 'unstable'. Why then was he in full access of guns and ammunition?
@WombRaider that detail causes me concern. But to deny his motive for the attack is ridiculous.
I personally have not denied his motive - I know you haven't accused me of doing such, I'd just like to make it clear.
He's a vile, hateful, homophobic and bigoted terrorist.
His life prior and leading up to the attack is being probed, so we'll find out the details soon enough.
@WombRaider did he legally own those weapons? I haven't been able to thoroughly inform me about this yet.
Here in Chicago, gun crime has increased since they added more strict gun laws, and since the Michael Brown case in Ferguson, like 90% if not more, of the guns used in crimes are illegally owned.
I'm all for controlling who owns guns, but we gotta keep in mind that the vast majority of guns used to murder are legally owned.
If the guy couldn't buy a gun legally, he could have bought it through the black market. If guns are outlawed, the black market will grow.
@cavmanier I agree. Exhibition didn't work with alcohol, it isn't working with drugs and prostitution and it won't work with guns.
@cavmanier It is not about banning guns , it is more about limiting their access to nutjobs. This guy despite having a seedy background and being on the FBI watchlist brought one over the counter. the same as many others who perpetrated similar massacres
www.nytimes.com/.../...hooters-got-their-guns.html
gun control didn't stop the Paris attacks but France has 5x's fewer the number of firearm deaths... every country has gun deaths. of course a gun ban won't stop the black market. but no non-3rd world nation has even close to the number of gun deaths the US has. the closest is Finland and they still have 1/3 the number of gun deaths
I agree with you that someone onan fbi watchlist for terrorism should not legally be able to purchase a firearm. The problem with blaming it on guns is that most people want to drastically limit law abiding citizens from purchasing them. And while the gun was his weapon of choice his radical beliefs are the real issue here but you choose to focus solely on the weapon. I feel that is a very backwards approach to a larger problem.
@madhatters4 no other country has similar amounts of guns to begin with. You cannot close pandoras box and limiting law abiding gun owners is not a solution to this problem.
The fall down of your viewpoint is there are no concrete facts of his 'radical beliefs', merely media hysteria
Ask yourself, if he is a Muslim extremist, then why is he attacking a gay club in a time when there are many more viable targets. particularly in an election year with plenty of campaign ceremonies going on
Seems a bit peculiar
no other country has the number of guns. well then that might be part of the problem right? so what we have more guns than other countries so? i guess we're fated to live the status quo?
you are right we have more guns than other countries but is that really the excuse we are going to ride out for why our murder rate is so high and why we can't get it under control?
So a conspiracy theory is more viable? Lol
where exactly has crime gone up? can you post some links with actual facts? this is the first time I'm hearing that.
also, the only time religious fanatics are able to do anything like this is when they get their hands on guns. which is overly easy to do in the us. a kid could could a gun much easier than they can get alcohol or anything else their not legally able to buy. that's pretty ridiculous.
@thewanderingme
crimeresearch.org/.../
Are you kidding me? The o. ly time religious fanatics can do this is with guns? Does the term suicide bomber ring a bell? Or September11th?
@thewanderingme
www.mintpressnews.com/.../
ok, well there isn't always much to do to prevent a suicide bomber, but proper gun laws could prevent someone from buying an automatic weapon. there's no good reason for why a civilian should ever be allowed to buy one
I haven't view the site yet, but crime going up only means people are being charged for what they're doing with guns more now. not that the use has changed any.
i think it's fair to point out that places that ban guns usually do not have the types of results that is hoped, but that can be said for prohibition of anything. American prohibition of alcohol and marijuana saw a definitive spike in use.
but thorough regulation has been proven to reduce homicides when properly and strictly enforced
@madhatters4 where has that been proven?
@thewanderingme no, actual homicide rates go up.
it isn't counted as homicide if the gun is considered legal, most of the time. like I said, all that has changed is more crime enforcement.
more enforcement is a good thing. it gets more criminals off the streets.
most of Europe gun control (stricter rules on types of guns, use of guns, and ability to travel with guns) has seen drastic reduction in homicides due to guns in most places in the last 10 years
@madhatters4 but a sharp increase in knife homicides, almost to the point where their homicide rates haven't dropped.
their murder rate is 13x's less than 1989 and since 2009 with their most recent gun control regulation laws it has dropped another 5x's
meanwhile ours has increased by 1.2x's in same 6 year window 2009-2016
@madhatters4 which country are you referring to?
sorry norway. that's who i was discussing with earlier so i forgot to mention here
Thank you so much for this. Respect.
My question is though, how many more people have to die until something is done about it?
Sandy Hook was the fork in the road that was ignored
20 children between 6-7 years old + 6 adults died?
What the hell is wrong with people who ignore that?
It's called money, gun lobby, and corrupt politicians.
Our system is broken
@Deft_maiden This is very damning of how ridiculously easy it is to get guns, legally
www.nytimes.com/.../...hooters-got-their-guns.html
300,000,000. if you dont like guns leave the country
@dudeman Lucky I'm not from the USA then!!
@dudeman I don't want to get in.
@dudeman
Yep. All the idiots here blathering about banning guns seem to miss one important bit. There's a third of a billion guns here, owned by private people. Taking them illegally and by force via an unconstitutional ban would start a civil war that would kill more Americans than any war in history.
I mean, it's not likely can just pass an illegal act through The legislature, have POTUS sign it and we'll all meekly surrender our arms.
It's not like the military and police would enforce a law forbidden by the constitution they swore to uphold.
It's complete bullshit how many people are more concerned with gun laws and the Constitution right now than they are about the actual massacre itself. Completely embarrassing.
Well whenever there's a massacre people who are paid by the gun lobby go on tv and say now is not the right time to politicise this issue and talk about gun control and then they just wait until the public cares about something else and everything goes on as usual. Like after Sandy Hook Obama tried to do something but in the end nothing much happened because the lobby was too strong. So as you can see 36 people die from guns a day so when do you think is the right time to talk about it? Because there's probably somebody dying right now from a shooting. I agree with respecting and mourning the dead but not when that concept is abused by a industry that just wants to protect its profit. They know that the longer they push the discussion back from the actual shooting the more likely they can kill any attempt to pass strong regulation and minimize the uproar about it. Do you think these people actually care about the victims? No, it's just a repulsive business strategy.
@EllieLexis513
fair point, and I am guilty as charged
Everyone seems to be pushing an agenda in the wake of the incident. Realms of views from outlandish to reasonable, but its a pity we can't take a moment for the dead and the families. Some of the commentary has been shameless unfortunately
To quote the democrats, never let a crisis go to waste. Obama was on it like a duck on a junebug whoring after victim disarmament laws. So was half of GAG.
At this point I'm not sure if it's the editor that puts pictures in between to avoid "walls of text", or an admin. The "congrats" quote of Trump's isn't all what he posted, therefore this falls under "cherry-picking" data, Literally, in this case.
"The reality in the States is you can 'Rambo-up' as easy as I can buy milk from the corner store and despite what tragedy ensues it just reinforces the love for guns."
Don't know what to say to this. An exaggeration, for sure, how much of an exaggeration, remains to be seen. I've heard different stories with regards to this "ramboing up". Obviously, USA is large, so it might vary from state to state. Haven't seen a single credible source in this matter.
Can't pick a standpoint. Insufficient credible material.
To me, that's all the more reason why people should arm themselves and learn how to protect themselves. What happened was awful. Donald trump is awful and his comments were horrible. But I couldn't help but think that what happened, is all the more reason why people should learn to defend themselves. Some psycho who wants to shoot people, is always going to find a way to get a gun, that's just the sad truth. Pretending this wack job wasn't a ticking time bomb to begin with and tip toeing around the subject just to be politically correct is just bullshit to me. This kind of thing happens, it's going to continue happening and the best thing you can do is get a gun and learn how to use it for your own protection.
Massacres are why we need guns to be legal. One place with one of the most strick gun laws in the US is Chicago and once they came into effect, deaths went up, not down. With gun free zones, people can't defend themselves. I mean WHAT MURDERER what give a flying fuck about a gun free zone. DO you think he would be like "oh shit sorry guys! didn't see the no guns sign!" And with the tweet whats the problem? I don't know who commited the murders at Orlando, but recently there has been a lot of terrorist attacks from ISIS. That isn't a fail, that is a "haha told you so".
After 9/11, they banned all sorts of things on flights. Liquids, batteries, whatever. But after a massacre, no one is going to ban a fucking assault weapon. Why?
Because fuck you, that's why. #FromMyColdDeadHands
I like you, I LIKE you a lot :)
The danger from so called assault weapons is overstated anyway. I hate it as much as anyone when these nut jobs commit these tragedies but let's face facts, more people are killed with knives each year than with assault rifles. In fact, more people are killed each year with bare fists. Every death is terrible but the AR-15 is far from the scourge of society statistically.
Just another mass shooting. America is used to it by now.
https://oi66.tinypic.com/25jiesi.jpg
The National Undertakers Association thanks the National Rifle Association.
Perversely true :(
I sincerely wish it were NOT true. :-(
Blame the NRA, which is all about safe lawful shooting... rather than the religion, which is all about killing folks like us?
Sure. In today's world that makes sense...
So true, I was so sad when the votes came in and it was a nay. I knew then that nothing would ever change unless something much much worse happened.
@guy532
Is that why registered Democrats keep shooting places up? Check it out. It's almost always a democrat like this one.
I didn't think even the democrats were that Machiavellian. :-)
@Dionysos
Prove it.
@Dionysos It's the rightists who insist on more guns and on gun rights.
Do your own research. Look it up. Don't trust my word.
@Dionysos shifting the burden of proof fallacy?
Nope. You'll probably believe it if you look it up yourself.
@Dionysos
What is advanced without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Case dismissed.
Enjoy your rational ignorance. There are many things not worth the time to investigate. Cognitive dissonance frequently makes people unwilling to look for answers if they fear they won't like the conclusion. It's quick though. Here are a few examples from snopes.
Orlando shooter - Registered Democrat - Muslim
Ft. Hood shooter - Registered Democrat – Muslim
Columbine shooters - Too young to vote but both families were registered
Democrats and progressive liberals.
Virginia Tech shooter - Registered Democrat - Wrote hate mail to President
Bush and to his staff.
Colorado Theater shooter - Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama
campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal.
Connecticut School Shooter - Registered Democrat; hated Christians.
Congresswoman Gabby Giffords’ shooter – Leftist, registered Democrat.
@Dionysos I verified one: Loughner , the guy who shot Giffords:
-https://www. phoenixnewtimes. com/news/fbi-agent-said-jared-loughner-made-graffiti-used-by-christian-anti-abortion-groups-6645853
www.cbsnews.com/.../
So much for your bold affirmation.
working link:
www.phoenixnewtimes.com/.../fbi-agent-said-jared-loughner-made-graffiti-used-by-christian-anti-abortion-groups-6645853
@Dionysos Read this: www.examiner.com/.../the-idea-that-recent-mass-shooters-are-mostly-registered-democrats-is-a-myth
Thus you're just slinging mud. Would you be a trumpo?
Well, his old classmates described him as left wing liberal. I wasn't aware that Christians had specific gravity tags. Or that they made graffiti at all. Interesting. Makes me wonder whether they were just reaching like they always do.
@Dionysos "his old class mates..." that guy was 20, thus his classmates were teens when they knew him. Some reference...
Better than "his graffiti looked like some right wing graffiti nobody's ever seen."
These guys are crazy. Their politics aren't likely to be party line, but seriously. Look em up sometime. You'll find a correlation between leftist thinking and being prone to violence. Case in point, anti trump riots, and my libtard aunt who punches people for disagreeing with her. It's because they feel their way through life rather than thinking. At least that's my best guess.
@Dionysos unsubstantiated hate speech
Hate speech, lol! We used to call that "disagreeing with a liberal" until they decided anyone who disagreed dissonance out of hatred.
Was this guy a libtard? Yep. Were the others I mentioned? From what I've found, yep. Disagree if you want. Prove me wrong. I'll thank you for the new info if it's credible.
Wow. Hiding behind the faces of children. You think gun owners just looked at Sandy Hook and decided we didn't give a damn? No. Not at all. But at the end of the day, there is evil in the world. Sometimes, it has a gun. Sometimes a knife, or a pipe bomb, or a can of gas and a lighter. Making a tool (which is a right to own) harder for law abiding citizens to get their hands on does nothing. The rash of stabbings in China, the bush battles in Africa, show that one can do plenty of damage with just a knife or machete.
And, let's just look at some numbers. In 2012, the year of Sandy Hook, 298 people were killed with rifles in the U. S. Swimming pools, cars, and ladders are all more dangerous, bee stings about 1/7 as dangerous (FBI and CDC numbers-wise). Is every loss a tragedy in and of itself? Of course, but a tragedy isn't a call for us to be less free, it's a call for each one of us to do our best to be better.
I love the first pic. Everyone says massacres are terrible but no one cares about the people who die from guns every day, like people in the ghetto. Hypocrisy is awful and it makes everyone's worry seem fake to me.
There is no justification for killing innocent people whether its religious or radicalism , these men have no ethics and humanity.
Ramadan kareem my friend
more than 60% of gun related deaths are suicide. There are many other ways to commit suicide. If someone in that area had a gun I'm fairly certain that the death would be reduced by at least half. Witnesses on the scene reported seeing him with a bomb. If he didn't use the gun he would have used the bomb. Are you saying we should ban selling bombs? Oh wait...
On the contrary, the gun "issue" is diverting attention from the Islam issue.
fair point!
i'm interested in your response but america will spend nearly 600million dollars in defense. so does the gun issue really divert attention from issues of radical islam which is the focal point of the US military?
sorry 600Billion
@madhatters4 The US military sucks at fighting terrorism, to be frank. It's designed for pitched battles and formal war, not fighting religious fanatics in the desert. The $600 billion is a waste of money.
Plus, they are too bust supporting the 'terrorist', since ISIS is an offshoot of AlQaeda that was created, breastfed and back to the hilt by the States back in the day
Oh, man. Don't get me started on the incompetent boondoggle that is the military. The sooner the the neo-cons realize that the military is just another bloated government program, the better off we'll all be.
Making guns illegal in the U. S. wouldn't be a wise thing to do. Would just give drug dealers another market. They have a lot of money. They just buy a factory over seas, smuggle in gun parts, reassemble them in the U. S., sell them on the streets and earn a lot more money. Leaving Law abiding citizens defenseless against home invaders who bought their guns from the drug/now gun dealers. Making it even easier since there will no longer be ANY background checks.
There will always be a few crazy people and this type of stuff will happen. You can't really compare U. S. to other countries. We're VERY different with a lot of different races, religions, politics and just different philosophies about life. It would be very easy for someone to use a non tracking search engines to look up how to build something very explosive. Or they can use gasoline and some matches. If someone is crazy enough to kill people with no real reason, they're going to do it.
Blame the person, not the object.
Not jumping into the debate pool here, but I really like that poem. :)
great poem
It's not really about guns for the Republican politicians. It's about money as usual. The NRA makes huge lobbies and contributions. Firearms also make a TON of cash here in the US. The economy would go to shit if we didn't have weapons manufacturers.
This is saddly a very complex issue. You have radical terrorism on one hand and lax gun laws on the other. The 2 are major problems on their own, but even more so when you put them both together. It all boils down to the fact that there are very hateful and crazy people in this world.
Not complex, for one is most Media hyperbole whereas the other is a very serious issue that no one addresses