Misconceptions about Guns in America: Part 1 of 2

[MysticDevice]

So this is taking a lot longer than I expected. Trying to get this as correct as possible is quite tricky. As I promised before: This is going to be fact-based. No personal opinions from me, and no speculations. I'm going to post what I have so far. Otherwise I'll never get this finished.

So let's just dive directly into this and we'll start with the basics. The Second Amendment states:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=Constitution%20of%20the%20United%20States,-Second%20Amendment&text=A%20well%20regulated%20Militia%2C%20being,Arms%2C%20shall%20not%20be%20infringed.

Next are the four basic rules of gun safety.
1: Treat every gun as if it's loaded.
2: Never point it at anything you're not willing to destroy.
3: Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
4: Be aware of your target and what's beyond it.
The exact wording varies depending on who you ask and where you are in the country but the rules themselves are still the same.

Considering how wide-spread and prevalent the AR-15 is we're going to dedicate a small section to it.

"The AR-15 is and Assault Rifle/Assault Weapon."
"Assault Weapon" doesn't have a legal or official definition. Different states, government agencies, and individuals all have a unique definition. I'm not going to go into detail because I don't wish to deal in speculation, only fact and legal definitions.

The AR-15 is probably the most recognizable and consequently the most controversial rifle in America but it is NOT an assault rifle, so that myth is false. Why is it not an assault though? The definition of an Assault Rifle is "A select fire rifle chamber in an intermediate cartridge".

So what does all that mean? "Select Fire" refers to the firing modes. To be an assault rifle, the weapon must be capable of FULLY-AUTOMATIC fire. What does full auto mean? That means as long as the trigger is pulled the weapon will continue firing until the ammunition runs out, the weapon malfunctions, or the operator lets go of the trigger. The AR-15 is not capable of this fire mode. it is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. What does semi-auto mean? That means the weapon will fire only a single round per trigger pull.

Note: Safe, Semi, and Auto selections of the M-16/M4

Note: Safe and Fire selections on the AR-15

What is an "Intermediate Cartridge"? An intermediate cartridge is a rifle/carbine cartridge that has significantly greater power than a pistol cartridge but still has a reduced muzzle energy compared to fully powered cartridges. Simply put, it is larger than a pistol cartridge but smaller than a "full Power" cartridge. We'll go over ammunition further on.

What does "AR-15" actually stand for? AR-15 means ArmaLite Rifle, model #15. ArmaLite is the original manufacturer of the rifle.

"The AR-15 was designed for Nazi infantry"
https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/washington-post-editor-claims-ar-15-was-invented-for-nazi-infantrymen/
There's no other way to say it, but that's false. Nazi Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945. The AR-15 was first designed in 1956.

"The AR-15 was designed for the military"
This one is technically true, and I'll explain why. The original iteration of the AR was the AR-10. Armalite submitted the rifle to the United States military for evaluation. The military was unimpressed and chose the M-14 rifle instead. ArmaLite redesigned the AR-10 into the AR-15 and submitted it again. The military was still not convinced but did see potential. The rifle was redesigned yet again into what became the M-16 assault rifle. After the Army adopted the M-16 in 1964 the "AR" design was picked up by Colt and sold to the civilian and law enforcement areas.

All photos were borrowed from the internet.

[abc3643]

"The AR-15 is and Assault Rifle/Assault Weapon."
"Assault Weapon" doesn't have a legal or official definition. Different states, government agencies, and individuals all have a unique definition. I'm not going to go into detail because I don't wish to deal in speculation, only fact and legal definitions.

===========

That's slightly misleading. The AR-15 was defined as an assault weapon in The Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-bill/4296/text

(b) Definition of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon.--Section 921(a) of
such title is amended by adding at the end the following:
``(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--
``(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms, known as--
``(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies
Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
``(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI
and Galil;
``(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
``(iv) Colt AR-15;

Also:

1994 Ban Assault Weapon Definition

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/1994-aw-ban-definition/

Of course, the ban expired in 2004, so, technically, that definition no longer holds.

[MysticDevice]

I was about to say that since that was overturned it's no longer a valid definition but you got to that part already.

[abc3643]

I want to be clear: It wasn't "overturned". It expired; it had a 10-year limit and was not renewed.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

The only way to stop a lunatic with a gun is to pull out yours and put him down. Disarming people will only get more people killed, and give more power to the people who have them (i. e. the government and criminals)

That's my stance on guns

[WanderingLoveWizard]

And we can't jeep everyone safe without restricting freedom. Death is the price of freedom.
I'd rather live free and in fear for my life than safe and chained to the fucking wall

[MysticDevice]

Thank you for your input!

I also have my strong opinions that I've shared and will continue to share. But like I said, I'm putting those aside for this one moment so they don't accidentally influence the readers.

Perhaps this way those in favor of them will be able to better explain why, and those against could get some better insight. As long as both sides are willing to listen and have civilized debates.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

@MysticDevice that makes sense man

[Tamera952]

Ok Rambo, settle down

[WanderingLoveWizard]

@Tamera952 'Murica

[goaded]

"I'd rather live free and in fear for my life than safe and chained to the fucking wall"
Do you understand the fallacy of the false dilemma? ↗

Those are far from the only two possibilities. Nobody expects perfect safety, but society can reasonably expect restrictions on people who are likely to harm others.

As far as I can see, the last time the "militia" part of the amendment was not ignored was in 1939, in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller

[Alessa13]

Thank you for a well written mytake, I am planning on getting my first few guns at a gun show this fall, the AR-15 has been recommended because it is modular and can have interchangable parts, be customized and is often cheaper than the more expensive and even more powerful rifles with the very nice wood finishes on them.

I need something simple and reliable, that is affordable.

I will be looking at handguns as well before I settle on anything in the end.

I look forward to part 2 and 3.

[MysticDevice]

Cool! I will say the AR is a solid starter rifle. I learned how to shoot using that platform. I learned on my friends' rifles before eventually buying my own. They are indeed fairly cheap and depending on the manufacturer reliable as well.

[Pterodon]

Can’t beat a 1911. If you can’t shoot one of those you can’t shoot

[OldSchool_Metalhead]

Awesome factual take man. Where I live at there's a good many people in the community who carry and after my workplace had been robbed (we're all fine) the regular customers keep asking if we carry too lol. Which of course in retail we can't (and won't). Guns just have to be put in the right hands. There's very low crime in general where I am despite how many people do own a gun. I've never believed that it should be banned, just all places should do a tight background check.

[OldSchool_Metalhead]

Let's see how many people I piss off for having an opposing opinion to them lol.

[MysticDevice]

Lol as passionate as I am on a certain side of the fence I just want to give people the straight facts and let them decide their opinions for themselves.

I appreciate your input. Most people just simply lose their minds when I bring this subject up.

[Friendlybro79]

You didn't bring anything up to make anyone "lose their minds". You shared the history and briefly described the rifle. How they're being used is what's upsetting which is understandable and also not the point of this conversation. I did learn some stuff about it. Thanks for sharing

[PositiveFlight]

The second amendment recognizes our already inherent individual right to keep and bear “arms.”

I like how you spell the differences between select fire M16/M4 and a regular AR-15. In my opinion, there should be no distinction between a civilian vs military/LEO weapons. Select fire is in common use. All select fire weapons and shorter barrel lengths should be fully legal and unregulated. The 2nd amendment protects all “arms” as a right. Which is why the 1934 National Firearms Act, 1968 Gun Control Act, and 1986 Machine Gun ban aka 18 USC 922 (o) should be overturned, repealed, and nullified by the states and jury’s as unconstitutional infringement!!!

[Friendlybro79]

Out of curiosity what do you think of this? Not trying to upset anyone just a question

giffords.org/.../

From a former conservative justice Antonin Scalia

[najekim]

Sub-machine guns are still legal to own if it was made before 1985. You just need to find one for sale and go through all the red tape. And pay the $200 tax.

[Friendlybro79]

@najekim I was more pointing to the article that the second amendment is not unlimited. Just like speech isn't. Especially coming from former conservative justice Antonin Scalia

[najekim]

@Friendlybro79 Gotcha!

[Lliam]

That was all accurate and factual, MysticDevice. Well done!

The design of the AR-15 action is also sturdy, dependable, accurate, and versatile. It has become the most widely used sporting rifle. Therefore, I believe that the ATF considers it a sporting rifle.

[MysticDevice]

Thanks! I really did try to get this as correct as possible and leave emotions out of it so I'm glad I managed to do that.

[Tamera952]

So what misconception were you addressing, & why? As interesting as your post is & was, I fail to understand why the deep dive into the particulars about that gun were necessary.

It’s WAY overkill & too much firepower, & highly dangerous. Your average everyday shmuck has no need or no business having one, especially without being screened or background checked. Basically it’s a military styled gun designed to kill lots of people, right?

[MysticDevice]

So this isn't the end of the MyTake, I just wanted to get some of it posted so it's not a hundred pages long.

The Idea here is for me to provide information that is as unbiased and as factual as I can make it. That way both sides with be able to discuss and debate properly. Knowledge is key after all.

As such I won't be discussing or speculating the wants and needs of why such weapons exist or why people choose them. All I will state is that they do in fact exist and what laws pertain to them. As well as clear any confusions. The laws will be in the next Take. If you have any specific queations I'd be glad to try and address them as best I can.

I chose to dedicate most of this part specifically to the AR-15 precisely because of how famous/infamous it is.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

You obviously know fuck all about guns. Go back to your fantasy land and let the adults handle this

[MysticDevice]

Easy tiger, that's what this MyTake is for. To provide the information to those who genuinely might not know.

No need to be hostile.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

@MysticDevice You're not her baby sitter, mind your own business.
She's not here to learn and educate herself, she's here to slam anyone who disagrees with her. So fuck her and fuck you. Pussy

[WanderingLoveWizard]

@MysticDevice Everyone can see right through your virtue signaling bullshit about trying to stay "neutral" anyway. In reality, you're just a little bitch. We all know what you're doing

[MysticDevice]

"Mind your own business"? This is my post bud.

You are not going to open anyone's mind by screaming at them and insulting them.

With a topic as polarizing as this someone has to be neutral. So I've elected to assume that role for the time being. That way everyone can be on the same page and as I said, have a civilized debate from a position of knowledge.

[DarkWinterNights]

It’s not overkill or “too much firepower” in any way. That’s the point in explaining what an intermediate cartridge is. Also, literally every gun is designed to kill. Period. “Kill as many as possible” specifically is an anti-gun argument that is detached from reality.

[Pterodon]

Who are you to judge. The AR is actually a weakling as far as rifles go. You should see what my.308 with hollow point varmit bullets do

[goaded]

@DarkWinterNights "It’s not overkill or “too much firepower” in any way."
Oh, so it's a nice friendly gun? What's the largest magazine size you can buy for one? What effect do its bullets have on a human body?

[Dargil]

The problem we have is that people do not think rationally with available facts. They think emotionally from brainwashing and express "my truth". There is only the truth.

[exitseven]

good My Take. i have heard all the misnomers except for the one that says that the AR=15 was designed by the Nazis.

[MysticDevice]

It was on an article I came across last year. It wasn't a popular one but I felt it was still relavent.

[tonamimargaux]

Awesome I’m gonna save this post as I was looking for someone who could educate me on gun laws of America

[MysticDevice]

I'm glad I can help. Knowledge is key after all.

[Tamera952]

What gun laws? It’s like the fucking Wild West when it comes to guns

[goaded]

@Tamera952 The Wild West allowed cities to regulate guns. Florida just made concealted carry without a licence legal.

[DarkWinterNights]

@goaded, Florida will be the 26th state to legalize constitutional carry. My state legalized it like 15 years ago and nothing changed. It’s not like criminals follow carry laws anyway.

[goaded]

@DarkWinterNights So, making concealted carry without a licence legal didn't help crime levels at all? (Nice propaganda name for it, by the way, "constitutional carry" has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?)

[Surely]

Maybe you should answer in part two. How many states you can make a legal purchase of a new AR-15 style rifle without a background check.
I know private individual sales of long guns in some states are not regulated.

[MysticDevice]

A background check is required on a Federal level. As far as I am aware there are no states that allow purchases without one. I will double and triple check that.
You would be correct on the matter that some states do not regulate private sales.

But part 2 will for sure have the requirements and process listed to buy guns though

[Surely]

@mysticdevice. Just suggested that because there are people that think guns are no more regulated than lemonade and cookies!

[Anonymous]

So what you are saying is that the AR15 and the M16 are the exact same gun firing the exact same ammunition except for a minor detail.

[MysticDevice]

The exact same gun, no. The selector switches and the Fire Control Groups, they're called, are machined differently and on separate production lines. I hesitate to say minor detail. While it is a physically small component it is still crucial to the weapon's functionality.

The AR and the M-16 are related though. But after the M16 was adopted into service and the AR focused on civilian sales, the two rifles were further refined and tested with separate priorites and parameters. And yes, they both fire the exact same ammunition.

This is actually a really good question that I didn't think of. I'll address it in better detail in the next part.

[Opinion Owner]

So it's an assault rifle that's locked in semi automatic mode?

[MysticDevice]

No. So the components are visually extremely similar. However, their manufactuing specs and dimensions are different. To a human eye its hard to tell the difference. But to a CNC machine making them, the parts may as well be from different planets. Which in turn, means they are not compatible.

So it isn't an M16 locked in semi auto. While visually almost Identical, they simply aren't the same gun.

[Lliam]

But the anonymous asker is correct in that the AR-15 is solely semiautomatic - one shot per trigger pull. And it requires a machine shop (milling machine), machinist expertise, and special (illegal) parts to be transformed into a fully automatic rifle (machine gun).

[TheorionMage]

'Exactly' is the problematic word.
Mechanically the AR-15 is the precursor of the current M-16/M-4, with sporadic modifications to improve reliability. Originally the post-Nam rifles were 'shot out' sold off mil surplus or composited from smuggled pieces. Palladin Press is one of the most prolific grey-market conversion manual sources.

As for ammunition, the device has evolved to be chambered for everything from the diminutive.22 cal. Long Rifle for economical plinking all the way up to the massive.50 ca. BMG & 12 GA. shotgun slug variants!

The SAME can be argued for the Soviet AK-47, even MORE widely-adopted and initially MORE reliable although less-accurate, with exception of its Dragonov sniper variant. And the FN-FAL combat rifle is also widely mfg'd under international agreements and license.

ALL, CAN BE used for hunting 'intermediate-sized game' ... especially with the appropriate ammunition. (And 'yes', humans were & are the original INITIAL 'game' intention-ed) 'Rambo'-esque Hollywood cinema devotees WANT the fantasy vicarious 'macho' and you'll note that the domestic terrorist shooters RARELY initially target ANYONE even vaguely capable of shooting back until they're confronted by SWAT response. These losers seek their 'immortality' borne of the grieving memories they impose on the families of their hapless victims (may these misantropes ROT in eternal torment!) :'(

[MysticDevice]

.50 BMG would be the incorrect cartridge. I believe what you're referring to is a.50 Beowulf. The former is for belt-fed systems while the latter is for rifles.

Upon reading Mrs. Anonymous's questions again I think I understand more what she was wondering: if the end result of using an AR15 and an M16 would be the same? Effectively, a 5.56 fired from an AR15 would have the same impact on its target as an M16 in semi-auto. Which would be essentially correct.

[Lliam]

@mysticdevice. That's true. But the NATO 5.56 x 45mm caliber is slightly different than the civilian.223.
5.56 NATO chamber has a.125” longer throat and generates approximately 58,000 psi compared to 223 Remington at approximately 55,000 psi.

[Pterodon]

My rifle of choice is my Springfield Armory M1A Scout. It’s full power.308 and is wood and steel instead of plastic and alloy. It will knock an AR’s dick in the dirt. I will take my M1A over any AR. Can’t beat gas piston reliability

[Fromdusktilldawn]

What I never is their reasoning that they need a gun arsenal "to defend their home"

Its not like its in The Purge movies, where you can get attacked by raiders and maniacs all the time.

[qwert1234]

Do you have part 2? I will try to respond when everything is complete.

[MysticDevice]

Part two is a few weeks out. There's a lot of information. Honestly even 2 parts probably isn't enough.

But if there's anything you want know about just let me know.

[qwert1234]

I have a few, to start:
-Americans have argued that guns are needed incase you need to fight a tyrannical government and for self-defense.
Don't get me wrong - I agree that based on constitution, you all have rights to own firearms.
But given what is happening - so far, as far as I know, you are the only country with this amount of mass-shooting.
What is the government doing to address those?

And why would anyone need Assault Rifles for self-defense?
Why does it seem that anyone can buy guns almost anywhere? I went to US years back, you all have rifles, in Walmart. IN WALMART. That's an equivalent of selling guns here at a grocery store.
People can also seem to sell guns on Ebay, on Craigslist, probably even on social media.

[MysticDevice]

The Walmart example is a good one. I was already planning on including it at some point.

Good questions. I'll be sure to address them in the next part.

[Tstrbrainer]

I know nothing about guns, so this was very informative.

I have one question though, I've seen in some videos where AR15 goes on firing as the finger is pressed to the trigger

[MysticDevice]

I would say that whatever rifle they were using wasn't actually an AR15 but an M4/M16.

It is possible to modify an AR to fire in full-auto, but doing so is a felony and will land you in prison. The exact punishment varies state to state but is illegal in all 50 and all territories.

The other possibillity is a weapon malfunction. Extremely rare, but has been documented to happen. Usually due to poor manufactuing or quality control.

[Tstrbrainer]

I saw that in a you tube video, I'd have looked for the link, but I don't wanna put anyone into prison lol

[MysticDevice]

The other possibillity is that the person has an FFL and is allowed to make them.

[Tstrbrainer]

What's FFL?

[MysticDevice]

Its a Federal Firearms License. It was dealers and manufacturers need to do their business

[MysticDevice]

*it's what dealers need*.
Big fingers, small keyboard lol

[Tstrbrainer]

Got it

[TheorionMage]

Prior to 1984, it was possible to apply for a Class III NFA License to (re) manufacture a semiautomatic military firearm into a fully selective-fire firearm for $300. The Volker Act became law and it was no longer legal thereafter for a private citizen to do so LEGALLY. I KNOW, because as a retiring CLASS III NFA Dealer, Veteran and Police Officer I was granted such a license.

It is IMPORTANT TO KNOW, simple possession of those necessary full-auto parts... the ATFE considers the 'machingun' and... NOT necessarily possessing the firearm in total. The federal felony carries a 10 year sentence in a federal penitentiary.

[Tstrbrainer]

Just for possession alone? 10yrs is too much

[OddBeMe]

Don’t care. Magazines big, rifles fire fast, multiple deaths. Should be regulated. At least as much as a car.

[Drdeeznuts1132]

I agree with you, man. Wholeheartedly.

[najekim]

Very well written. Kudos!