There's nothing feminine or masculine?

[chocolatetwopointo]

feminine and masculine is just society making laws for how people should act and look.

agree

disagree

[Anonymous]

The individual defines themselves, not the label society deems fit for them. Masculine & feminine are just labels, though you can have qualities of both or none.

I didn’t like sports growing up, guys & girls thought it was weird. Sure I played violent video games and liked playing floor hockey in the gym didn’t mean I like watching sweaty dudes wrestle each other in American Football tbf also didn’t mean I could like ‘little trinkets’ that were targeted toward ‘feminine’ tastes. I’m my own man, I love being my own man.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Then, aside from biological evidences, aside from psychological perspectives.

Every time I try to discuss the social aspects of feminine and masculine traits, it gets funny because we end up realizing that... Yes, what is feminine may be masculine and vice versa.

[chocolatetwopointo]

and that is?

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Well, for example, grace in movements, you know fluidity in body posture. It's something designated as feminine. But when looking closely, we tend to present gymnastics to our daughters, and our sons tend to end up playing football. Doing this we determine each of them to use their bodies a certain way. Without any logic but tradition and culture.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah and we created those traditions and cultures. thats my point.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I know your point yep, as I'm familiar with how sociology talks about the world built around us

[chocolatetwopointo]

that still has nothing to do why we shame young boys for doing gymnastics and shame young girls for doing soccer

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

The why is actually very simple, as a species, we're automatically attracted to assimilation through imitation of the environment, we want conformity. We hate rejection. So we would do anything to be accepted by the group, assimilation and its counterpart, fear of rejection, starts like this, right at kindergarten.

[MadhuriDixit]

I don't know I am attracted to masculine men and repulsed my feminine men. Most women would agree with me on that. Almost every woman do not want a man with too much feminine traits. So there is that.

[chocolatetwopointo]

im talking ab soceital standards.

[Beckybooboo]

I don't know an exact amount but A LOT! We get a lot of lake effect snow.

[Beckybooboo]

Oops! Wrong question!

[Anonymous]

wrong. masculinity and femininity definitely exist in nature

massive social engineering and propaganda is being used to subvert millions of years of evolution which doesn't work in the long run

when a crisis happens or shit hits the fan, men and women naturally revert back to gender roles

[chocolatetwopointo]

only when its ab biology, im talking ab societal gender standards. like what crisis?

[Knightwatch27]

You are young so I'll show you some grace for it. But what you say is completely detached from reality and common sense.

[chocolatetwopointo]

explain, ill wait.

[Knightwatch27]

No need to wait.
Masculinity and feminity are intrinsically tied to biology; women are physically weaker than men save an exceptionally few deviating cases, we have different body compositions and genetalia. Men produce far more testosterone which promotes dominance, leadership, aggression, women produce less testosterone and more ostrogen which lends itself to greater sense of empathy and gentleness. And to be clear to give anecdotal counters to this is not proof to the contrary, merely exceptions to the rule.
Psychologically we have been scientifically and empirically proven to be differently since eons back. Men tend to favour the logical side of the brain while women favour the emotional side, which makes women on average more capable of clearly recalling emotional memories in their lives.
Studies even showed some years back that as a country becomes more and more "equal" in terms of opportunities afforded in all work sectors, the more segregated the workforce became because men and women naturally gravitate to different lines of work.
This doesn't mean there aren't aspects of masculine and feminine roles or stereotypes that are created by society, but neither does that erase the underlying reality.
It is so easy for people to say "it's just a social construct" to things they dislike but that is simply a statement out of the blue completely devoid of anchorage in real observations and facts.

[chocolatetwopointo]

im talking about societal standards not biological by the way.
I've seen men be more emotional than women tbh, and ik so many more examples.
as i said, im talking ab soceital standads.

[Knightwatch27]

So you clearly did not read a word as I both recounted social and biological differences (which naturally spill over unto each other as biology is tied to social behaviour and nature) as well as telling you that anecdotal counters do not prove anything but are mere exceptions to the rule. So you just exposed yourself as not reading a word and not caring for actual answers but rather just wanting to have your confirmation bias stroked.
If you are referring to some specific societal standard you furthermore have to specify what these are.

[chocolatetwopointo]

omfg🤦‍♀️ yes i did read it. u mostly talked ab physical and psychological.
sure, like women are supposted to stay in the kitchen and men should work. that its apparently feminine to shave. that its masculine to have short hair. all of those r standards made by society.

[Knightwatch27]

Your arrogance does you no favours, kid.
So you have 1. Gender roles in the household which was/is a system which has functioned well for 6000+ years and 2. hairstyles which has changed over time but also differed depending on culture and place.
So how exactly do these two things make you conclude "there is no masculine or feminine" at all?

[chocolatetwopointo]

1. still a societal standard. js bc its functioned doesn't mean its good. the world is working too but people r still getting killed and going through horrible stuff.
not really, nowadays when women have short hair like men, they get called guys and get bullied, ik a few myself. and the same for guys with long hair.
bc there isn't. both of these r standards made by society that would have no change in how we are in society now if they werent here.

[Knightwatch27]

As I already said in the original comment, there are aspects created by society, that does not mean there is no logic or function behind them. And it does not erase the existence of masculine and feminine at all. People dying has nothing to do with that whatsoever.
You're still on the topic of hairstyles being something that is a "societal standard" and because that's "bad" no such thing as masculine and feminine exists. You have not made a logical deduction kid.

[chocolatetwopointo]

and those aspects make people think working is masculine and taking care of kids and stuff at home is feminine. people dying was an example.
maybe u js dont understand.

[Knightwatch27]

Working is masculine because the drive and instinct to provide is masculine as evidenced by biology. Biology and psychology are linked to the social which is what you seemingly do not understand. And the high level of nurture and empathy is feminine. It doesn't mean those roles have to be like that 100% of the time, but they are still natural.
It doesn't matter what it was, it has nothing to do with it.

You are too young to tell anyone they do not understand a topic. Take a breather and come down to earth there.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yet nowadays women work js as much as men do?
taking care of kids and being empathic could anyone do, dont start with that bs.
nope im not, im js telling u its sexist

[Knightwatch27]

I don't think you even know yourself what you're talking about. You're merely regurtitating shallow claims made by others.
What you said did not even relate to my points.
It's not about what we can do, it's what we are naturally inclined to do. Nature isn't sexism and homemaking isn't shameful.

This is why you need to learn and grow before trying do debate. This is nonsense kid.

[chocolatetwopointo]

you clearly dont even understand my point here

[Knightwatch27]

You have none kid.

[chocolatetwopointo]

i do tho, kid

[Knightwatch27]

A 16 year old's comeback if ever I saw one.

[chocolatetwopointo]

good thing u finally did

[Knightwatch27]

Another reply that makes no sense. Learn how to actually debate and then come back.

[chocolatetwopointo]

lmao

[SweetJoyGirl]

@chocolatetwopointo Mm…I get that you are saying…
“ not really, nowadays when women have short hair like men, they get called guys and get bullied, ik a few myself. and the same for guys with long hair.
bc there isn't. both of these r standards made by society that would have no change in how we are in society now if they werent here.”

Though, after reading that, your real question should be, does looks determine how society treats someone. 😊

[chocolatetwopointo]

@SweetJoyGirl
no it shouldn't. bc that wasn't my question was it?😊

[SweetJoyGirl]

You explained what you mean, so yes that should be your question. It is ok. We all word the things wrong sometimes. 😊

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah bc its a small part of it, there's more😊

[SweetJoyGirl]

You are not making sense, now.
You need to explain better. The way you are explaining it is definitely sounding like you need to adjust your question, hun.

[chocolatetwopointo]

omfg🤦‍♀️ bc looks is part of it, there's more stuff that r seen as feminine or masculine.

[Rockey_the_bicker]

Okay