The Truth About Women and Their "High Standards"

[ManOnFire]

All the discussion about females having higher standards and being more selective seems to be a pretty regular thing people go over, especially guys, so I’ve finally gotten around to writing about this because I too have my own thoughts, and I’m going to break this down very carefully.

Most women don’t actually have any particularly high or impressive standards about picking men, but it is true that many often do have ‘high expectations.’ No doubt, I’ve dated women who don’t have those expectations and thought processes, but I do think they are few in comparison to the bigger pool. And with most situations, this still largely applies to the younger set of females, usually in their 20s and 30s.

Women’s definition of high standards = superficial expectations…

The true definition of having high standards is one I don’t think most females are really believing in or living up to. Having high standards means being particularly intelligent and perceptive about your selection of values in a person. It means you won't accept or settle for less than someone who has real character, is mentally as well as emotionally intelligent; is responsible with their decisions, money, and how they live life; will actually care for and about you as well as others, even putting others before themselves; has important morals; and is a person who looks for all these same values in someone else as well. Regardless of their background, job, education, or financial status.

But having high expectations is what a lot of women do have instead, and these expectations generally do not match with the definition of high standards that I just noted. Some women do want those things in a man, but only if status is involved. Although they claim to be less shallow than men, this is actually a lie. Many women first do look at a man’s material, accomplishment, and life status - and even looks - over really looking at his true value as a person even if he does have those standards.

Sex...

Also, often times the women who claim to have “high standards” are usually the ones who will go with a guy who lacks them just because she's aroused by him being “bad”/streetsy/cool-talking or having tattoos, big muscles, or a hot car and thrills her for the moment. It’s even why you have all the women out there who sleep with rappers and rockstars on tour because of their grungy/badass image and celebrity.

"High standards" women are actually not against casual sex like a lot of them want you to think. They just want it - and even have it - with badboy types or guys with money and status that they hook up with on Tinder, college campus, or with guys at their job. They really are no different than the men they criticize. Claiming they have high standards is usually their way of sending a message to guys letting them know who they're filtering out while secretly being cruddy themselves. Women with true standards generally don't make a declaration of it or feel they need to. They know what their hearts and minds are inside.

The tough truth...

A well-to-do woman who is single wouldn't date a guy who works at Walmart, Target, Wendy's, or Chipotle. He could be the healthiest thing for her mind and her life, everything to mean her well, be very valuable and important for her well-being, even be the guy to give her the best sex in the world - but she wouldn’t know that, and she still wouldn't pick him simply because he either doesn’t have a car, is working a part-time job, and/or because of where he works. And it doesn’t surprise me when I meet women who actually admit this.

However, they would date a guy who is a manager, representative, or CEO for Walmart, Target, or the other places. Just not the actual male associates on foot doing all the hard work.

She may talk about wanting a guy who "works hard," is put together, and has priorities, and the guy at Walmart or Wendy's could have all that, but for her his best is still not good enough, nor is his status. Because it’s not the kind she wants or expects in a man. In her mind, him not having a car and not having a full-time job or even a career means he doesn’t have himself or his life together, regardless of how intelligent and great of a person he may be. That’s just the bottomline. And I’ve seen it more than once over the years when such women overlook great guys I knew for the sparkly ones or badasses.

At the end of the day her superficiality will win out over any kind of emotionally critical logic or real depth in matching with a man, because she wants a guy with a status either exactly like hers or greater. She would think the guy at Walmart or Subway is too lowly for her or less "educated." However, she might be game for sex if this guy exudes a badboy persona, has tattoos, and makes some moves on her, and she would keep it a secret that she’s sleeping with him, but would never have any real, open relationship with this guy.

Some wealthy women don't want to date average Joes because they think the guy will just want to live off of her - which is true sometimes, but these same women still want other men with money even though they say they "don't need a man" to support them. They just like the fact that he's got money, and like the image of it as a couple. And today's woman really is fine with having more money than her man, but only if he too has a career. Not if he's an average guy with a part-time job making minimum wage.

The difference between men and women...

Unlike women, most men do not care about a woman’s bank account, social status, driving status, or even what kind of job she has - unless it’s something really out there or weird - in order to care about her as a person or even be attracted to her. When a man really likes a woman or is attracted to her - whether it's for sex or a real relationship - he doesn't give a shit that she works at Starbucks, Wendy's, or Walmart, has no car, is renting a room somewhere or even still living with her parents, or didn't go to college. Even if she's not beautiful, we can still be into her because of her personality and how she makes us feel, and the other stuff we could care less about. I think few men really care about those things in a woman.

And that’s the difference between men and women, and tells us which gender is actually more shallow and which one isn’t. And while I'm aware that there are women who don't care about a man's job, money, etc. I believe you are far more likely to find men who don't care about those things in women instead.

Being “picky”/selective is not always a good thing…

Should anyone just “settle” for anybody? No. And it’s good for all of us to have some preferences and be selective to some degree. For me I largely prefer older women, thicker women, and of different cultures. I wouldn't date a bisexual girl, a Republican, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, smoker, or even an extreme Liberal. Why? Because our values and lifestyles don’t match. That’s being selective for logical reasons.

Being very “picky” or selective can also be a sign or symptom of inner discontent, not any kind of intelligent reasoning, because when you have a “list” it’s because you want someone with all these qualities, statuses, and physical, material things in a person to excite you and be more than what you yourself know you are worth deep down. It’s also a showy way of trying to look like you’re smart or careful about how you choose someone when it really looks like neither. Women are basically trying to say, “You see that, guys? See how I don’t want most of you and only the very best?” Men are not impressed by that.

Narcissism...

Pickiness/selectiveness is also a sign of narcissism and self-righteousness. Women are giving too much credit to their own value. It’s usually them who want men that are way out of their league, while you have a lot of guys not trying with a woman because they think she’s out of his league. More often it’s women who actually think they are in a position to be picky and think they’re important enough to be with a man of special value that she herself does not even match and is a woman those men generally do not want in turn either.

The problem is that too many of today’s women are setting their “standards”/expectations wayyyyy too high to where it even exceeds their own worth as a person. They’re viewing themselves as much too good or too valuable to be with men they think are beneath them, and put too much emphasis on what a man is supposed to be but have nothing to offer in return. And these types often fill up dating sites and think telling us about their career, salary, college, pets, and rock climbing hobbies will be impressive enough to a man. They are probably single for a reason, though part of it is also their own doing. Like one guy on GaG once said, most men actually are good enough to date but women think they’re too good for them.

Bottomline...

"Having high standards" is such an overused declaration from women these days that I don't even take it seriously because I know who most really are.

The truth is that no one in this life ever really needs to be with anyone who has a high salary; Bachelor or Master’s degree, expensive home, or important social status. If you're going to love someone, do it for who they are, not what they are or what they have.

#HighStandards

[CharlieUnicorn]

"A well-to-do woman who is single wouldn't date a guy who works at Walmart, Target, Wendy's, or Chipotle."

But if that well-to-do woman came across a guy who shows a side she absolutely wouldn't expect to see from a guy who works at Walmart, (Target, Wendy's, or Chipotle), pretty much all her preconceptions go out the window. Like if the guy's surprisingly well read (and she also happens to dig literature)... or in other ways connect with her in a way she wasn't expecting.

Listen, people may have expectations and standards, reasonable as well as shallow, but for the most part, they don't know what they want more than a rough idea. You might even come across folk who say "I would never date a guy/girl who ", but trust me, that often doesn't sit very deep at all. When they suddenly meet someone who they would've ruled out according to criteria, but this someone shows individual qualities they never considered and didn't even know they wanted, things will happen.

People have biases and some of those are societal, but they can often be broken through when you in spite of it all manage to strike a strong enough emotional connection.

Try to bulldozer through and always reach people as individuals, while thinking less of putting them in cathegories (or mind how others may do). You will win out, guaranteed, and also be seen as the most original and genuine fucker around.

[ManOnFire]

This is very true.

[DonRomeo]

Disagree, but I see where you're coming from. I disagree because women simply dont give these men a chance. I have found the exceptions where I live, and they are about 1 in 500. If women judged lower-status males equally, then we would be living in a Completely different society. As it is, evolutionary biology and psychology is a science, and it has found the consistent results that prove that hypergamy/classist female sexual selection is the norm - and a very, very consistent one. But your final advice I certainly agree with!

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on the female. Same as depends on males. As if we're all the same no one would get anywhere.
I mean what attracted me to my boyfriend was his passion. About his music, his family.
All things I couldn't see in myself.
But stuff I couldn't buy. I mean I worked 2 jobs, had my own car, not close to my family.
Whereas he lived at home, never had a job or learnt to drive.
But what he didn't have, he made up for in sitting and listening to me for hours because of my depression. Or how he'd speak about his family. Or how he looked after me when I sprained my ankle 2 weeks after meeting.
he's not the typical bad boy. Doesn't smoke, take drugs (anymore I recently found out) no tattoos or piercings. But I know he'd do anything for me and vice versa. Which is why I'm glad we're a team :)

[ManOnFire]

Oh wow. That's beautiful.

[Anonymous]

Why care about their standards. You can't always get what you want. and those with impossibly high standards will realize that sooner or later or live miserably trying to attain something that's not there.

You don't need a significant other to be happy in life. Just live life, work on yourself, follow your passions, dreams, and hobbies and you'll find happiness.

Yeah I get there's standards and depending on where you're at in life you won't fulfill those. A 19 year old won't be making over $100 000, and have a masters degree except in extremely rare cases. Heck some people ar eintelligent and end up successful without post secondary education but they're also in the rare. On the flip side there are a lot of smart men in the trades who don't have a degree. If a woman is willing to cross off plenty of great guys because they don't satisfy one requirement on their list then they don't deserve any of the great guys they're ignoring.

Though back to my point. A guy going to university, trying to get a degree and do something great with his life is a good thing. He may not have a full time job because of his studies and he may be an adult (like most men in their early to mid 20's.), he may also not have a car. Though depending on where you live you may not need a car and license. Also depending on where someone starts out in life, they may have had the deck stacked against them so yeah they're working harder then someone who just has everything handed to them.

On top of this you shouldn't be expecting things from a partner that you don't have yourself. If someone you're daing makes 200k a year while you only make 50k but you were never in it for the money than so be it. On. The flip side if you make a lot of money but they don't and they're supporting theirself well then why care

I get that women don't want to date lazy, deadbeat leaches. Though just because a guy doesn't make as much if he's trying to do something with his life and supports himself he's not a leech. Also degrees don't necessarily show intelligence. It doesn't necessarily show hard work either since some people cheat their way through university or just knowwhat's going to be on the test though in most cases people work hard to get their degrees.

My point is you could be great person without a degree, car, or the highest paying job. Most people don't have the highest paying job. Back in the day most people also didn't have a degree (and some didn't complete high school and had a good life)

[ManOnFire]

Yeah that's pretty much everything I'm trying to tell them.

[Opinion Owner]

I know. The thing is some people will never learn. I think you'd have a better chance telling men that there's a lot beyond marriage, children and women in life that does bring fulfillment and happiness and that it's better to keep improving theirselves, working hard and trying new things and if a good woman comes along she does, if not then whatever becaus ethey'll already be happy with their life choices.

Though it's also helpful to tell men the kind of things they should watch out for in some women and maybe some good standards they should have (standards not preferrences). If we all kept our preferrences as standards then the human race would go extinct.

[freakyzeaky]

I agree with most of this take. The reason this really happens is the abundance effect. Women on average simply have more men vying to hook up with them than the reverse. Reasonably attractive women have options, while men usually don't. This all comes down to who does the pursuing. Think about it. Women, even average looking women, have 100s of men filling their inboxes with messages trying to start a relationship and have men approach them from time to time. They have friends who they probably know would be interested in dating if they were desperate enough. They have options.

It is about being in demand. Men aren't in demand in general because they make themselves too available. As long as there are men who are willing to get with ANYTHING, then it will put women's guards up and make them far more selective. The more a person's perceived value, the more selective they will become.

I always find it funny when women claim many "good" or "nice" guys feel entitled, but in reality, that entitlement is usually in the reverse as well. Some women right from the onset feel they are entitled to a guy who is witty and makes them laugh right from the first sentence. Even if they don't expect it, they secretly put weight to a guy who just "gets it". And guys who "get it", generally tend to have more options and aren't the types to settle down into a committed relationship anyway. Some women are smart enough to know that and will only use these guys for sex or avoid them, while others fall for these guys and think they can pin them down.

I too agree it isn't about standards but expectations. Expectations of what men /should/ be. A "real" man will approach with confidence as if he is 100% sure of the outcome. A "real" man knows how to fix things, dominate her in bed, be thoughtful without asking her, listen to her problems without trying to make it better, have enough ambition to be "going places" in life, flirt like an expert, give her multiple orgasms, and have his emotions totally under control even though she can't because a "real" man should be the stronger one for both of them.

Notice how all of this pressure is put on the man to provide and if he can't, he must "become".

Women don't have to think about what she has to offer because, once again, she has options. The dynamic is such that guys have to prove themselves rather than the other way around. In fact, it has been this way since courtship was a "thing".

[ManOnFire]

I feel like as guys that we focus wayyyyy too much on all the stuff about women's options or chances compared to ours. If we want women to take our thoughts seriously or change their attitudes, we have to confront them on it. Not on how much sex or how many guys we think they can get.

[freakyzeaky]

It isn't about what we "think they can get", it is just the simple fact that men offer themselves up to women far more often than the reverse. It isn't about focusing on it. I agree that men shouldn't try to mold themselves into what they think women want or what women say they want. Authenticity and integrity are always more vital than some perceived value or lack thereof.

All I am is saying that options lead to these expectations and it has nothing to do with men focusing on that fact. Focusing on the fact doesn't make the fact any less factual. haha!

[freakyzeaky]

I mean think about it. If you have a flock of women chasing after you, women hitting on you at least once a week or even once a month, wouldn't you be more selective? Add to the fact that it is much harder for women to orgasm and it requires a certain degree of emotional connection to start a woman's engines, and it isn't hard to see why women have these expectations.

For a guy, if he is just compulsory, is far less choosy. A wide variety of personalities, looks, and attitudes might turn him on. He might be able to form an emotional bond with almost any woman simply because lighting a woman up and touching on her emotions is enough to turn him on. This is the provider effect. A man can be happy simply because his partner is happy because he is providing that happiness.

[ManOnFire]

Whether it does or doesn't, doesn't make the situation better either. Women are giving themselves up easy to guys especially a lot more in these times, and lots are hooking up. High rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancies didn't come about because women have been denying guys all that much.

"All I am is saying that options lead to these expectations and it has nothing to do with men focusing on that fact."
- Even the women who don't have many options still have those expectations. Dating sites are full of overweight women who actually think they're in a position to be picky. A woman will still think she can choose regardless of how many options or how much attention she gets, even if it's none.

[freakyzeaky]

I suppose guys can be picky too, but I think many have a very minimal baseline, and most of it has to do with looks. I know many women /think/ good guys only want models or perfect 10s, but that is far from the truth. Many good guys fail to get the attention of average women, let alone someone they are truly attracted to. I don't think I am projecting either, because it is still culturally ingrained that it is the man who must give the attention, at least at first. It is culturally acceptable for a man to simply go for what he wants, and what he wants usually doesn't have a bunch of conditions attached. And once again, it is because men are far more simple when it comes to their needs.

[Alpha89s]

Good Take !
But there are many points I disagree with tbh.

1-) The selectivity part is not occurring in these times only ! it has been like that for thousands of years. women wants men that they can count on ( even if some feminists bs say no ). The ONLY DIFFERENCE is ( I know a lot of men will be pissed lol ) Men in general has accepted to lower their own standards !!! a lot of men here on social media and in real life accepted to play the role of "passive male" rather than get what you really want !!! thats why when people compare before and now, they would say women were more down to earth where in reality men before USED TO BE MEN. and actually took some actions to live a great life in every aspects ( women, careers, fitness...)

2-) Most of the examples of women you mentioned here, are gold diggers ! lol or real shallow ones ( who actually think they are cool women ) ... but there are a lot of actual high standard women who are not like that too. THEY WANT strong man yes. but it doesn't mean only the bad boys.

3-) The bad boy is only attractive to stupid women !!! there is big difference between Alpha man and bad boy. the bad boy is probably a loser that already doesn't have strong status rather than being super good with women. which contradicts a lot of men crying that women only want a bad boy !!!
Instead the Alpha man is the one that knows what he really wants and work hard towards it ( he doesn't have to be rich or very successful to actually be active person ) and this type of man i would say 80% of woman want it. and its a natural and biological traits for women to like the alpha types.

4-) And I'm not denying there are some crazy bitches that are looking for only appearances but usually the MEN DO IT TOO !!! lets be honest here my friend !!! most men who are crying about the women are mean, are the first one to jump on the hottest girl. and they will refuse the one they don't like and call the ugly bitches ! lol

So in the end, I have to say a significant number of MEN & WOMEN are aiming for instant gratification of a great partner WHILE in fact they are not visualizing themselves well in the first place !!!

[ManOnFire]

"Instead the Alpha man is the one that knows what he really wants and work hard towards it ( he doesn't have to be rich or very successful to actually be active person ) and this type of man i would say 80% of woman want it."
- That's my point. Except a lot of women are not really wanting those guys but flashy or badass ones.

Men DO look at a woman's looks, no doubt. But most men aren't going to reject most average looking women even if she doesn't have all the features he likes.

[Alpha89s]

Are you sure most men will settle down for average one? Not true my friend !!! not true at all !

I see so many men ( on social media, my friends, even my coworkers... etc ) will never give a chance to these women... they will call them ugly bitches !
They often say they want someone nice and humble and completely removed their claims once they see that women.
So there is a double standards regarding men too.

[Charleslvajr]

Not really. Guys that I know, myself included, were after appearances when we were dating. When we moved to settle down that perspective changed completely. My wife is attractive and she is a model in my eyes but her most redeeming feature to me was her acceptance of ME. Who I am and where I am and what I am, mentally, emotionally, physically, financially and spiritually. That superficial bull about chasing "model quality" is flatly untrue when a man seeks an actual life companion and not just a piece of ass. Besides, from my experience, model quality truly is skin deep.

[ManOnFire]

@Charleslvajr Exactly. That's what I mean.

[Alpha89s]

@Charleslvajr That's very true !!!
Just like women who are actually more picky reagarding dating but then a lot of them will try to settle down with less obsession about which standards are good or not.
So why women are not allowed that? lol
that's my point.

[Charleslvajr]

Sorry guys, what you were saying read differently.

[Kithor]

This whole Take is almost exactly my perception of women in general, especially now that I've been on some dating sites. I like the relative objectivity; the last thing this site needs is more blame.

The mistake I think a lot of women make is using someone's education, income, possessions or status as a proxy for their quality as a person, when common sense will tell you that these things are often if not usually inversely correlated. If that weren't the case then every women alive should be swooning over Donald Trump right now.

It's only been in recent years that a college education has been commonly used to gauge someone's work ethic - not just by women but by employers too, and keep in mind that's education irrespective of actual skills or intelligence, in what's known as signalling theory. In 1960 only 8% of the population had college degrees, now it's over 30%, and the increase has been driven mainly by stagnating incomes rather than any sudden increase in actual work ethic. Starbucks likes to hire people with degrees because they tend to be better workers, and with so many degree-holders floating around, why not start requiring it? Likewise women can start arbitrarily requiring their date have a degree because why not? The men haven't changed, the system has.

As regards our definition of "success": In a country that's well on it's way to becoming an entitlement-capitalist oligarchy similar to Italy, the richest and most successful tend to be the most ruthless and narcissistic. Who wants to date that?
What about the guys who work for nonprofits? What about the professional volunteers? What about the activists and abstainers? What about the ones with plain old bad luck?

"Women with true standards generally don't make a declaration of it or feel they need to. They know what their hearts and minds are inside."
This quote is especially true, for men as well. A women telling everyone she has high standards is like a guy telling everyone how nice he is.

[ManOnFire]

This comment was just amazing. You put it perfectly.

[Kithor]

Thank you :)

[DonRomeo]

Wonderful! I'd love to elaborate on this, but Im still struck with its awesomeness 😊 Very interesting and prescient

[MissGeorgia]

Jus because someone didn't finish school doesn't mean they aren't smart. Just because someone did, it still doesn't = superiority.
People who work at Starbucks and Subway work just as hard as everyone else.
I grew up in quite a nice neighbourhood. There are lot of trust fund families there, and some of them are not nice people. The parents and older generation are, but some of the people I went to school with, or to the same places as, are really not. The way they treat people, especially the way the guys treat women, is disgusting.
I got pregnant from a one night stand. He wasn't a complete stranger, he was, and still is a good friend who, at the time, didn't have a job.
I don't think I'm a bad person because of it, on the contrary, it's made me a much better one. I still have a job and ambitions... even if they're going to take a little longer than I first planned.
I've had two serious boyfriends. One of them was a bus driver, and the other, joiner ( carpenter) and they were two of the best guys I've ever met.

As long as someone is kind ( again, even bad boys can be good to people) , doesn't have a girlfriend or wife already and doesn't take me, or anyone for an idiot. Then that's more than enough.
Truly good men are gold... and they come in all shapes and sizes, and not always the way people expect them to.

[ManOnFire]

Brilliantly said! So far 2 great female responses.

[MissGeorgia]

Thank you 😊😊

[LittleSally]

I agree with your last sentence. Also - with the definition of high standards - it's who someone is and what they've made of themselves and how much they invested in their future that's important - it's all part of the standards...

Whenever I read some of these mytakes on women I can't help but not understand the world you're talking about... probably because where I live differs a lot from where you - and most of people on this site - live... and the cultures and people differ a great deal... But I get what you're saying... [Even though I don't get why you're only saying it about women... are women so bad in America that they're all gold diggers?]

The thing that makes little to no sense to me always is when a person who lazily walks through life believes they don't want to settle for anyone other than a hard working, ambitious person who's done a lot in their life - it's hypocritical and shouldn't be that way... unfortunately there are people out there who still think this is the way their world should work.

[ManOnFire]

"Also - with the definition of high standards - it's who someone is and what they've made of themselves and how much they invested in their future that's important - it's all part of the standards..."
- They can be, but we're talking about the person and what they have in character and personality. I'm much more concerned about the heart of a person than what they make for themselves. Their successes in life are not an indication to me that they are necessarily a decent, upright, or even loving person.

In America, things often are this way with women, yes. They even have the nerve to scorn European women for marrying American men for money, yet no one marries and divorces for money more than the American woman.

[CharlieUnicorn]

Maybe it's because there's more nationalised welfare/social security systems etc. in place in many european countries than in the US? (which has the trade offs of higher income taxes obviously), but anyway, I can understand that without those things, people might look more closely on things like health, home situation, income and job security in their potential dates?

But I've never been dating in the US so I wouldn't know.

[Omega_brie]

It's just supply and demand. Anyone is allowed to have whatever hypocritical standard they want. If you're a woman, you can lazily exist through life and expect a lot--this is because guys like girls and sex, and will do all the hard work if a woman allows him to fuck her.

However, everything has consequences. Women have trouble in the job market because of pregnancy. They also have to compete with other women who will undercut them.

Good example is Natalie Portman and Ashton Kutcher: www.theguardian.com/.../natalie-portman-ashton-kutcher-no-strings-attached-gender-pay-gap

Kutcher got paid 3x more than Portman, even though both are A listers with equal talent. Why? Because Portman has to compete with other women, and most women have a guy who takes care of them. Thus, women will have lower demands simply because they don't need the money, and any female-only job will get paid less.

The problem is that this is called "sexism", while the other half of the coin isn't.

[Anonymous]

Actually, this quote is true of most of the women I know, and I know plenty of guys who won't date or marry a woman that is not conventionally attractive, even if they aren't, and won't date a woman who doesn't have the money to pay her own way. "Unlike women, most men do not care about a woman’s bank account, social status, driving status, or even what kind of job she has - unless it’s something really out there or weird - in order to care about her as a person or even be attracted to her. When a man really likes a woman or is attracted to her - whether it's for sex or a real relationship - he doesn't give a shit that she works at Starbucks, Wendy's, or Walmart, has no car, is renting a room somewhere or even still living with her parents, or didn't go to college. Even if she's not beautiful, we can still be into her because of her personality and how she makes us feel, and the other stuff we could care less about. I think few men really care about those things in a woman."

Most people to prefer to be in a relationship that is financially sustainable. Minimum wage work doesn't cover the basic necessities of life in this country, so it requires the other partner to do a lot of work to make the relationship sustainable. Sometimes it's really so much extra work that it's unfair to ask that of another person. Women didn't create the situation in which the gender norm of "man supports woman" came to be. Women are creating change to this system of norms.

Individual couples get to decide what works for them though. Now and in the future.

[ManOnFire]

"and I know plenty of guys who won't date or marry a woman that is not conventionally attractive, even if they aren't, and won't date a woman who doesn't have the money to pay her own way."
- I know some guys like that myself but I think they are still a minority compared to women.

"Most people to prefer to be in a relationship that is financially sustainable. Minimum wage work doesn't cover the basic necessities of life in this country, so it requires the other partner to do a lot of work to make the relationship sustainable."
- But you still don't need someone with a heavy bank account or social and career status to be happy with them.

We're talking about values in a person regardless of their life status, and many women would rather overlook a man with his mind in the right place for one who has superficial appearances and possessions, even though they're claiming to want men with depth and character.

[Opinion Owner]

No we don't. We really don't. I know so many incredible women married to guys who just look like your average Joe because eventually you realize looks are only skin deep. What matters is what's inside that guy - his decency, his honesty, his sense of humor. Yes, of course we all try to make ourselves financially stable in adult life, so yeah, money is sometimes a factor, but not in the gold digging, shit way.

Nothing of what you have said rings true for most of the women I know.

[Charleslvajr]

Rings loud as church bells on a winter night for what I have experienced and witnessed. This is not fantasy. As I have said before women can and will justify anything to take the spotlight off of what they do.

[ManOnFire]

Maybe not for women you know, and even in that the ones you know may not even be completely honest with you. You gotta be a guy to get the full spectrum.

[Charleslvajr]

ManOnFire Who are you talking to?

[ManOnFire]

@Charleslvajr Her.

[Opinion Owner]

@ManOnFire Except I date women too, so I have seen a spectrum of women as much as you have.

And you speak of these things as if men don't have their own high expectations.

[Charleslvajr]

I'm curious, what do you see as men's high expectations. As a married man (14 years), I'm curious as to what I missed, along with all those guys I know who are married, successfully. I will tell you, for most guys, marriage and dating are two very different things and in general what expectations there are tend to be different.

[ManOnFire]

@Charleslvajr Good point. I would also like her to answer that as well.

[Opinion Owner]

Ok, so, I'm just going to give a few examples of things I have seen on GAG:

High focus on appearance, breast size and other physical factors. Some perhaps very unrealistic, or very unhealthy for the woman. That's just a general thing I have seen echoed in a lot of comments.

Expectations that the woman will be submissive.

Expectations that the woman will be virginal, or have a very low "body count", while at the same time, the man expects to be very sexually active until marriage. This double standard comes up on GAG nearly daily.

Now, is this ALL men? Heaven's no. I am not even sure it's MOST men.

But how about you guys tell me, what are YOUR standards or expectations? I'll tall you about mine.

Because, what I think is that you are painting all women with the same brush, and many of us just aren't like you describe. And, as I said, not all men behave the same way either.

[Charleslvajr]

Most of GaG is a gaggle of bullshit so even the most thought out takes are going to be awash in crap. Trolls and like, you get the idea.

My expectations in my wife are simple, support me as I do her, defend me as I do her (that means in all aspects, I don't tell people about my wife, that's her choice and she doesn't tell people about me, that's mine), to not attack, demean or otherwise use the element of my personal self against me or openly (in public).

[Opinion Owner]

@Charleslvajr That all sounds fair to me.

My expectations of my husband are that we will work together to overcome obstacles, we will listen to each other. He's private also, so I only reveal so much about him. I'm less private so it's not a big deal to me - but he tries to be pretty nice in the way he talks about me to others. I expect him to maintain his friendships - he's still good friends with guys he went to grade school with and they would do anything for him, and he is devoted to the two women in his band, and I love that about him. When we got together, he was on disability from a workplace injury, and for the first several years we lived together, I fully supported him - he wanted to work, and got himself back into the job market. Eventually he built guitars for a major company for like 13 years or so. It was underpaid for sure, but it was steady work and he was happy to be productive. He's is awesomely kind, and he is beloved by almost all who meet him.

[Charleslvajr]

It's unfortunate that I'm pretty clinical when I discuss matters of this kind but like I said, I sanitize everything that my wife isn't available to okay. But it sounds as though you and your hubby are well suited and do right by each other which is what it's all about to me. Thank you for being a good person, it feels very rare.

[Opinion Owner]

So, yeah, I wanted him to have a stable job, because it made him happy to be productive that way. He hated being stuck home with his injury. When we were at that stage where it was time to decide if we would have children or not, we talked a lot about him being home with the children and me working, and we both really like that idea. He's incredible with kids. My daughter, or actually my step daughter, is one of the finest human beings I know too. We loved raising her, and she is so much like her dad. I digress.

I'm just saying, I don't really thinks all these negatives are true of all women, or even most women. I also don't thinks those expectations I mentioned that men have applies to all men. I do believe that we sometimes have very unrealistic expectations of the person we may some day want to be with, but when it comes to actually dating and marrying someone - I think men and women both "relax" and they fall in love with the person who clicks with them - not their job.

[Charleslvajr]

You are a wonderful girl (I can say that, I'm old) but sociology disagrees with you in many ways. Eventually people marry for love of person but initially (first marriages) people fall in love with the expected. This is why we have a ridiculous divorce rate, why men and women have such a demented view of each other. From our earliest years it is constantly reinforced as to what we are supposed to be, how we are supposed to act and think and most especially how we should love. It's not until we get older do we learn who we are as opposed to what we are told we are.

[Opinion Owner]

@Charleslvajr Oh, I agree with you on how our ideas of what we want and need in our love relationships changes as we mature. But then, I always say never get married before age 28.

I am not sure what I expected when I married my first husband. He did have a good job, but I worked and worked my way up while we were married so I made nearly what he did when we got divorced. (I was 19 when we got married. Such a bad idea.) I did think things would be more like a fairy tale and less like spending thousands of dollars and working my ass off to support his phone sex addiction.

[ManOnFire]

You might be a different woman, but many out there do care about superficiality in men. And the females' responses to this Take and agreement with each other is very telling.

[Opinion Owner]

Hey, if you want a life where you see every woman as a gold digging bitch, then that's fine. We aren't, but it's your loss.

[ManOnFire]

Lol. Not every woman. Just most. They would still be that way regardless of what I thought of them.

[Opinion Owner]

Bitter much?

[Charleslvajr]

It's like being bitten by dogs. If the first 4 dogs bite you what do you think the 5th is going to do?

[DonRomeo]

If we look at it from a perspective of ballance, when you say its unfair to ask someone whos richer than their partner to contribute, how unfair is it to discriminate against those who have less money by rejecting them on that basis? More, the same, or less? Hopefully you can see the distinction here.

I have read a lot of scientific research on the subject, and all - really, all - the researchers agree, with varying ammounts of reluctance, that women are doing absolutely nothing to counteract their evolutionary classist discrimination. They still have brains from the stone age. One could argue that many males are also hardwired to find 'traditionally' attractive females more desirable. Ultimately though, the OP is correct from my experience - when it comes to a girl's looks, males will ultimately pair up, down or sideways (and very rarely the former, as we have no power in sexual selection). So Im sorry if your experience is that, but many men see beyond it. Thats the difference.

[honesty321]

Ok. You just did not even miss one spot. Your article is perfect nothing wrong with and absolutely true even well written en interesting to read. There is one point I can't help but If I fall in love I just think and see him as pretty. I know this world has standarts for the good looking guy and it is at all not my type but the opposit even they try to buy my soul into it. There are hundreds of posters and stars in magizines and I never liked one of them so it does not work not all their advertizing and then they started to try on me with girls.
They can not stop trying and I told them they keep trying perhaps next time they have more luck. But they have allready millions of them all over the world.

But I know that my type of man is not allowed in the show business. And I know why so that will never happen as how many woman are never kalander girl with a name like June for example as their asumed identity that they prefure I think not to be mentioned since they are hypocrits and think woman are stupid not to notice this and all have their dreams.
At least man try to drag woman in their lives of business but they can not handle it if they are rejected and do not understand why they are rejected because they see themselves as the idol.
And the take no no for an answer so yeah you allow them again to rape you in many different ways ofcourse not just sexual because there are also other ways of rape they are able to do and what we also call rape in the name of the law but one thing they never ever leave you alone until you say yes. And that will never happen because it destroy's their business. And then they have no more that money. So yeah, that is probably their problem a littlebit with so they go to find the woman they can catch but yeah they have no choice then the only catch they can catch with woman as well with man because if all woman refused they would go on with man. Yeah it is a weird world. You can nothing take for real anymore.

[Blume20]

I have standards. Being rich is not enough, I want more. I want someone that cares for me, loves me, makes me happy and is financially secure. He does not have to be rich, but enough to afford looking after a family. and that is why I care, ultimately what I want is marriage. and I grew spoiled maybe, we travelled abroad, I attended great schools, my parents paid for my university degree; and I would want to give my children the same comforts. I would not be happy in a marriage, that I have to worry about the rent, or give up all of these things I am used to. So yes, I have standards. He does not have to be rich, but financially comfortable. and that is not enough , he also has to love me. Only having both of these things would make me happy in a relationship in the long run.

[mememememyself]

I am engineer and I m in a relationship. He is 2 times college drop out. When we met, I was a mess as he was. When we were meeting, I was already out from college and working as a engineer. Had some plans on future and all. Now, ever since i met my boyfriend, everything changed. Life changed. He is not that kind of a guy who is muscular and has lots of tattoos and is a bad boy. He is an introvert struggling with this world as I am. I dont even know whether i have standards. I never thought of it. Never thought of any of those or never worried about any of those things. But now, my boyfriend is back to college with double degree, got a job which pays him really good. I guess there is no point in thinking about standards in relationships. It just happens. When u dont expect it and in a way u never expected it. Just love yourself and love him more.

[ManOnFire]

WOWww this is bombshell. You are a rare one and will probably get MHO for female on this Take. Just amazing.

[mememememyself]

thank you :)

[JustAnotherGirlie]

Okay. What you are referring to is actually called “assortative mating.” Its a practice for both men and women. And there’s nothing inherently wrong with being “picky.” Marriage is a business and not one you want to engage with while having a partner that does not suit your tastes and education level.

[ManOnFire]

Okay, so you are obviously a female focused on superficiality. See how well that works out for you in the long. You gotta have more to offer in life than financial success and collegiate background.

[JustAnotherGirlie]

Lol wait. So because I prefer a man on my education level I’m “superficial”. You do understand there are financial incentives to marrying someone within your income bracket right? If women marry down, especially certain races of women, you LOSE money annually. I don’t choose certain types of men to stroke my ego, I use these principles because it makes sense.
I don’t work hard and struggle in college to just marry a plumber and watch my earnings get flushed away. Your job doesn’t indicate your intelligence or your value as a person - that’s not what I’m advocating here. The goal is to combine 2 incomes so that i can give my kids the best chance at succeeding. If that makes me superficial then so be it.
I wonder if you tell men that preferring thin women is superficial as well

[ManOnFire]

@JustAnotherGirlie Omg plumbers make good money. As do mechanics. Your financial state depends a hell of a lot more on HOW YOU USE your money than how much you actually make. The joke is on women with careers who make lots of money because they are the demographic that usually has the most debt and squanders what they earn. So they need to worry about their own pockets and less about how much/little money a man makes.

Men preferring thin women would be somewhat superficial, but body preference in a lover is a lot less of a big deal than wanting someone based on their life status.

[VegetaSSB]

I agree with you that women nowadays don´t have high standards but high expectations, they want someone who does at least 6000 per month, is tall, good looking, yep, pretty much;

[maestrodematimaticas]

I agree with you that the girls who like bad boys suffer from a sickness. But, I'm damn sure not going to hitch my wagon to the waitress at Denny's. Or date a woman who doesn't have a car or her own place. Or has a promiscuous past. Or an addiction. Or one that can't handle money. Or one with children by dead beats. Or one that likes to go to clubs. High standards in those areas are perfectly acceptable. I have a standard of living that I want to enjoy and if she cannot contribute to that then I'm not interested.

[ManOnFire]

At least you're honest. But why not a waitress or the woman at Denny's?

[maestrodematimaticas]

She didn't make smart decisions. I want a woman with a career that earns a respectable wage.

[DonRomeo]

You talk like a diva. I wonder if you realise that you are the cause of many girls giving up on guys, and perceiving them as assholes. I would be ashamed to have such an ignorant and discriminatory perspective. Still, hopefully you get what you want so you can leave the dating marketplace forever and not spread this horrible attitude to more women.

[maestrodematimaticas]

@DonRomeo I had a good job and I wanted a woman with a good job as well. I wanted her to add to my standard of living. Not take away from it.

[beachgoddess]

@Op, guys like you are the reason I want to date super wealthy guys. It seems like poor middle class guys care more about a girl’s bank account than rich guys do. I want a guy who isn’t going to base my value off of my socioeconomic status. I want a guy who will provide for me and take pride in doing so. And who will love me regardless.

That being said, there are many girls with that “little Ms. Independent” mentality. I’m sure you can find several girls like that. Most girls wouldn’t be interested though.

[maestrodematimaticas]

@beachgoddess I found her 20 years ago. She is a surgical nurse. I want a woman who can carry her weight. Not just sit there and look cute.

[maestrodematimaticas]

@beachgoddess So, its okay for you to have financial standards but not me? Ok.

[art84]

There's nothing wrong with women having high standards when it comes to men in particular. Having a job that pays well and being independent is what everyone wants in this world. Who wants to date someone who has to live paycheck to paycheck and can't even afford a car versus someone who has a great paying job, car, house, and is financially set for the rest of life.

[ManOnFire]

I have money and a decent job, but I don't want any woman looking my way just because she thinks she can be apart of what I earned. Without her. And this is what makes women disgusting.

[art84]

True about women.

[kjdkjkdj13bdi98r3d2]

True, we guys don't want golddiggers, but if a girl is college educated and works in a good career, what's wrong with her wanting an equally successful guy?

[ManOnFire]

@kjdkjkdj13bdi98r3d2 Nothing necessarily. But she shouldn't count out a guy who's not at her status either.

[DonRomeo]

Disappointing and very telling that there are two female upvotes to such a shallow comment. Uh... maybe the actual CHARACTER and Life experience, abilities and behaviours of the person could be a factor in selection? According to you, nope.

[amel23]

Tbh my standards r there to prevent me of wasting my time on a relationship that will be a catastrophy I know what I want it's not like I'm asking for looks or money but if I'm not with a really manly men it won't work if he's not madly in love with me it won't work if he's not trustworthy it won't if he doesn't like my feminity it won't work why do I get into a relationship and expect magic to happen if he doesn't have certain characters it won't work and we both would gain time

[ManOnFire]

"know what I want it's not like I'm asking for looks or money"
- And that's the good part. I don't care that you want super manly men. The point is you want someone for their character and how they'll treat you.

[amel23]

I see what u mean I understand it the same way guys act girlscwjo r not attractive r not datable its sick

[raspberry0416]

Education, job and financial status are not "superficial" qualities. They signify intelligence and a good work ethic. If you're talking about expecting six pack abs I'd agree with you, but expecting women to date broke ass losers is not realistic.

[ManOnFire]

They signify nothing about intelligence. They only signify personal success, which is very different from having any real character or substance in personality. Usually the people with the highest statuses lack the most inside, and have little or no life skills. And these are often women, thinking they're in a position that makes them good enough to have expectations but nothing to offer.

Which is a lot worse than a broke guy who actually has a brain and life smarts.

[raspberry0416]

They do signify intelligence, because you have to be intelligent to accomplish those things. But I take your point that people can be intelligent but not have those things.

[ManOnFire]

It signifies being SMART. Not intelligent. The two are very different. Smarts are more secular, just stuff you learn out in the world. Intelligence is rooted more in soul, your ability to perceive, comprehend, make very good decisions, know right from wrong, smart from stupid, etc.

Which people of high status, do not usually have.

[Kithor]

"What we call intelligence is one thing, what we actually teach and test for in schools is something else entirely, something more akin to cleverness."
-paraphrased from Earth in Mind

[Charleslvajr]

Or you can just be well supported by influencers. I've met many executives with no real intelligence who are well trained for a specific skill set with a well placed sponsor but are about useless outside that skill set.

[BrittBratt2416]

Smart and intelligence mean the same thing cause they are synonyms... SYNONYMS. And yes, depending on the college you go to, does signify a certain level of intelligence. Everyone has a different level of intelligence, that's why there's different colleges, why do you think schools like Harvard exists? Harvard isn't just a college anybody can go to or get in, you have to meet their criteria and be pretty damn smart to get in. So yes, college does signify a level of intelligence, am I saying college is the only way to be smart? No, I don't think you have to go to college just to be somebody but the people like your doctors and lawyers are the ones you definitely want to be smart and gone to college that gave them the best and highest education.

[ManOnFire]

@BrittBratt2416 Again, the "intelligence" you need to have for those schools and jobs are book smarts, worldly education. Not actual inner intelligence. They are not the same thing by a long shot.

[raspberry0416]

“Which people of high status, do not usually have.”

That's not true either. There are people out there who have everything going for them. You just have to deal with it.

[ManOnFire]

@raspberry0416 It isn't anything for me to deal with. Their intelligence - or lack of it - is of no consequence to me. But yeah, many don't have a lot of life smarts or real inner depth. I have money and a decent job but I also grew up through tough circumstances that taught me things most of them will never really have.

[Shadow44]

They don't always signify intelligence. People who work in a mine or waste disposal can make really good money but they may not be as smart as someone with a masters degree. University grad students can be some of the smartest people around but have trouble finding a good job in their field, they can also be someof the poorest people around with student loan debt and all. What you should be looking for is someone who can support theirself and who's trying to do something with their life (that's not criminal). Though I understand trying to find someone who's somewhat equivalent to you socio-economically.

[DonRomeo]

I dont know if anyones said this to your face, but you're a Fascist. If money isn't superficial for you, you're a classist. The ignorance of the phrase 'broke ass losers' can only come from someone who is a genuine loser and sucks at life. Are Africans in Third World Poverty brokeass losers? According to raspberry0416, yes. Homeless young men who were born into broken homes and poverty, and kicked out on the streets by irresponsible parents? 'losers', according to this user. Probably you think the same about every minority. But you can be absolutely Certain about one thing: I was born into third world poverty, and you, are not worthy of sucking the shit out of my ass.

[beachgoddess]

I agree 100%. It’s almost as if we’re supposed to go after broke, deadbeat losers, yet be happy. Asked lives in a fantasy world. Delusional.

[BrittBratt2416]

@beachgoddess That's because a lot of dudes are entitled to women as hell. If you have standards then you're just evil but if totally find for them to have standards and "preferences". If a guy wants a fine ass bitch with thick thighs and a juicy ass then that's fine, but if you want a tall guy with a 6 pack and a decent job... girl you done committed a crime and you're ass is selfish. A lot of these dudes are "all about me" but when women demand something it's a problem.

[Charleslvajr]

@BrittBratt2416 Hell if a guy has standards he's an evil piece of bigoted, sexist, misogynist shit from the patriarchy who doesn't want to spend his life with spoiled, entitled little b*tches with no real investment in the relationship then what she can steal in a no-fault divorce settlement.

[ManOnFire]

@Charleslvajr Put perfectly.

[raspberry0416]

@BrittBratt2416
Ignore those guys and keep doing you. They can't force you to do anything you don't want to.

[BrittBratt2416]

@Charleslvajr No one is saying anything is wrong with a guy having standards, it's just that guys feel like it's okay for them to have standards but bitch when women have them as well. And I see this on this site a lot of times, so no women really don't have much of problem with men having standards as much as men have a problem with women having standards.

[BrittBratt2416]

@Charleslvajr and what is with you guys and divorce and patriarchy

[ManOnFire]

@raspberry0416 I'm not interested in forcing anybody to change, I'm just telling the truth about the situation. Younger women's limited mindsets and lack of deeper values is a problem of the heart they have to work on. Time and life lessons will help them do that without anyone needing to force it.

[Charleslvajr]

@BrittBratt2416 At this point guys bitch about that because of the constant harassment against us. We're tired of hearing it. As for divorce. It's almost guaranteed that a guy will lose everything in the divorce settlement and it's pretty much guaranteed that even if the woman doesn't have a chip on her shoulder her lawyer will.

[BrittBratt2416]

@Charleslvajr Then why is that the woman's fault or the court systems fault? You guys need to stop bitching about women and divorce and go after the actual source of the problem... which would be what? The system! Tell them to change some shit and how it's effecting men financially in unfair advantage. Hello, I know this cause I see my brother going through the same thing. He had to move back in cause his baby mama and the court system is fucking him over financially and asking for too much money. Money that he doesn't have and money that she doesn't need cause she has a college degree and a higher paying job then my brother.. so she doesn't need 900 or whatever it is a month. Then again, this what men put themselves through when they stick their dicks in crazy or just want to sleep around with women they have no clue they are incompatible with.. this includes marriage.

[BrittBratt2416]

@Charleslvajr And honestly the reason why the court system is harder on men is because they know we have a lot bum ass dads out here that do have the money and time to take care of their children they make but don't want to take responsibility. So instead coming after women on divorce and all this other bullshit needs to stop, go after the irresponsible men who are making babies out here that don't want take care of them cause they're the ones who's really making it hard for you. Have one bad apple in the tree and it spoils the rests, so they're the ones who need to be blamed and why the court system is so cut throat with men. It's not divorce and it's definitely not women (unless she really is just evil and trying to take everything out of spite).

[Shadow44]

@BrittBratt2416 Since I'm still getting notifications on this I figured the court system being harder on men was because women had no rights back in the day so they couldn't work and the guy had to support their wives if they so chose to divorce them. I figured the system just didn't update itself with the time.

Also not ragging on women here but just because you're not compatible or she wants a divorce doesn't mean that a guy deserves to pay. Also just because a guy is living with a women (whom he had no children with), doesn't mean he deserves to pay spousal support. Yeah not every women is vindictive but there are a lot of bad apples and I have seen a lot of guys I know get screwed over by the system, for either going through divroce or living with a woman.

I don't advocate for mgtow, but I'm not planning on getting married just because you never know. People can change and my last girlfriend showed me someone could be nice one day and evil the next.

[ManOnFire]

@Shadow44 Very well said.

[Charleslvajr]

@BrittBratt2416 A woman can declare to their attorney how it's going to go in the divorce. It's still her choice to allow this financial rape to happen, you know, the payback a guys gets for "sticking his dick in crazy". It wouldn't have anything to do with maybe falling in love with trash.

[BrittBratt2416]

@Charleslvajr so you're not responsible with who you chose to enter a relationship with is what you're saying. You may be in love someone but you also have to chose wisely, if that person shows terrible trashy traits and you still get with them, then yes you decided to go with crazy and stick your dick in crazy. Sometimes the person you may like or love, may not be the one for you.

[BrittBratt2416]

Omg dude it's not just book smarts, if that was the case then anybody could be a damn doctor.

[Anonymous]

Women like men with status because subconsciously, they're only looking for a man who can provide and protect her family.
Men care so much about their partner's attractiveness because they want someone who is young and healthy that will bear him great children.
It's not really about being superficial.

[ManOnFire]

Women like men with status out of vanity. If it was really about a man who could provide or protect their family they would actually choose intelligent men who know family values of provision and protection regardless of his job or salary. Instead they pick guys with money and/or college background who are sissies in life, porn addicts, or cheaters. If you haven't noticed, a lot of the pedophiles and men who sexually harass women are those wealthy guys.

Men don't care about attractiveness for those reasons. And when looks do matter to a man it's much less of a severe reason than women's superficiality.

[Opinion Owner]

Oh I get it. You don't have any of that so you lie to yourself.

[ManOnFire]

Lol. That's your idea of a good comeback? Yeah, you must be wealthy lol.

[Opinion Owner]

Me and my fiancé are pretty well off tbh.

[beachgoddess]

Asker is stupid as fuck. He doesn’t know that there’s something known as natural selection and evolutionary biology.

[ManOnFire]

@beachgoddess There's nothing intelligently biological about women wanting men for money and status. It's about satisfying their own inner vanity. If it was really about that then any hard working man would do regardless of the type of work or money he has. The fact that he actually has a job and is working towards bigger things would be enough. But instead women are thrilled by glitz, which is a sad biological trait.

[Opinion Owner]

@beachgoddess agreed.

[ManOnFire]

Lol. You're both young women with the same limited mindsets that tell us about your lack of values, of course you would agree.

[Anonymous]

Women seek out men who would make good providers, show strength, have good leadership skills, because it increases their chances of survival, hence why women tend to be attracted to men with money, status, and muscles.

On the other hand, men seek out women who appear to be the most fertile in order to keep reproducing and that's why men tend to be more visually stimulated than women are. Huge breasts, wide hips, fat butt, etc. are all signs of health and fertility. This explains why guys tend to be attracted to a woman's looks more than her money or status.

It's evolutionary biology.

[ManOnFire]

This sounds like a complete carbon copy of one of the other female anon trolls who answered. So I'll give the same reponse:

Women like men with status out of vanity. If it was really about a man who could provide or protect their family they would actually choose intelligent men who know family values of provision and protection regardless of his job or salary. Instead they pick guys with money and/or college background who are sissies in life, porn addicts, or cheaters. If you haven't noticed, a lot of the pedophiles and men who sexually harass women are those wealthy guys.

Men don't care about attractiveness for those reasons. And when looks do matter to a man it's much less of a severe reason than women's superficiality.

[DonRomeo]

It Is all evolutionary biology. It does seem though that women are completely incapable of overriding it. As sex/evo biology/evo psychology researchers conclude, the hard-wiring that we have is from the stone age, and we need to evolve and free ourselves from it. Women simply do not live in a society where they must leach off males for survival - they have jobs, money and every opportunity to support themselves and prosper, so there is no excuse - if there ever was - to still select males on this discriminatory basis.

[Opinion Owner]

@DonRomeo I agree.

[Opinion Owner]

At asker, if you want to label every female who disagrees with you a “troll”, you have a lot of growing up to do. I think you’re the one who’s trolling since you seem to want to argue against the ideas of scientists, scholars, researchers, experts, etc... Not just on this question, but on other mytakes you’ve posted.

In addition, I have a taken courses on Evolution and Biology with real nationally-recognized scholars. So I definitely know what I’m talking about.

[Opinion Owner]

Why do you think there are more sugar daddies than sugar mommies? That should give you a clearer understanding.

[ManOnFire]

"I think you’re the one who’s trolling since you seem to want to argue against the ideas of scientists, scholars, researchers, experts, etc... Not just on this question, but on other mytakes you’ve posted."
- Aka, you would rather agree with shallow science than with anything that makes you see the inside of yourself in a deeper way than what overused, nonsensical journalistic research will do. And it's your choice, and is of no consequence to me. I'm not concerned about your pride in your monkey studies. I'm concerned about the human heart and intellect. You could do well to research that with some real life understanding.

Sugar daddies want sex with younger women, and younger women want sex with them and their money. Spells nothing to me about women's intelligence in selection. Rather the very opposite.

[ShesAmerican]

people can't even live up to their own expectations lol

[DamnMan]

Nah, just live up to those standards.
Lowering standards is like trying to be the worst team in the world.
It comes to why even bother.
Either strive to be an MVP, championship team or GTFO.
Want a beautiful woman who is not in your league? Fuck the league and ask her out anyway.
She'll appreciate the balls on you over punk dudes who don't have... well, balls.

[ManOnFire]

Those are not standards.

[DamnMan]

What are not standards?

[ManOnFire]

The expectations women have that you think men should live up to.

[DamnMan]

Well, to be clear, I'm talking about my own expectations of what I want in a woman.
I want a beautiful, sexy, and caring woman, so I have to be the same from a male standpoint.
That is being successful (on my terms), also caring and sexy ( lol ).
There is nothing wrong with wanting what you want, but you have to match them, and they, you.

[ManOnFire]

For me I don't need a woman to be gorgeous for me to be into her.

[DamnMan]

Since beauty is in the eye, I always say go for the most beautiful woman, in your opinion.
As far as I'm concerned, if she is not absolutely beautiful to you (mentally, physically, spiritually), then what's the fuking point? lol