If you don’t want to be “taken from”, just stay single

[Lizsizzie]

Note: I understand if you don’t want to read the whole post, don’t read it then. But if you haven’t read the whole thing and therefore do not know what the post is about, do not respond.

This post is being made in response to the majority of responses from bitter men on my last mytake, as a general common sense reminder of what relationships are and who should be in them.

If your definition of being “taken advantage of” includes anyone receiving any benefit from you without or before you receive the exact same thing,

if you don’t want your significant other to ask for absolutely nothing from you,

if you expect to treat the person who is spending the most time and energy and intimacy on you like or worse than a friend,

if you expect or desire a woman to go half on everything with you even after you’re married, as though you were roommates

if you essentially think that people in a relationship should still have to fend for themselves entirely, you should just die alone.

The entire point of any relationship is mutual benefit, the entire point of interpersonal relationships is to give and take, the very reason partner bonds began was so that two individuals: a man and a woman could rely on each other and live off of each other and benefit from one another therefore having a higher chance of survival with increased ease. If the thought of making your partner or prospective partner’s life easier and having them rely on you makes you feel taken advantage of or exploited or sick in any way it’s because you are a selfish individual and you would be better off alone for the rest of your life.

Yes, this applies to both men and women.

absolute freedom = absolute loneliness.

if no one deserves anything from you, you deserve nothing from anyone else.

also by refusing to treat your romantic partner better or any way different from a friend (even before the relationship has really been established), you removing all incentive for such a person to ever consider you as a romantic partner or as more than a friend yourself. This applies mostly to men who claim they won’t “simp” for any woman but expect women to treat them like boyfriends or husbands whilst they themselves are treated like no more than homies.

[caring__1]

it's true that a healthy relationship is about mutual benefit, but mutual benefit benefits the relationship not primarily one person. Our greatest joy is sharing in our partner's joy. Many people love to share in a relationship. Unfortunately, when things start being seen as entitlements, the desire to share dissipates.

Let's say you enjoy intimacy with your partner, but he expects it how he wants, when he wants and where he wants. Wouldn't it eventually turn into a chore? The same holds true when someone prioritizes any other type of self-pleasure and feels entitled to live beyond realistic means.

It would be nice if people clearly stated what they seek from a partner and what that partner can expect of them before any significant investment is made. Unfortunately, too many people use bait and switch schemes to hook a person and then feel the person should accept them as they really are, once the mask is removed. All people are entitled to their preferences, but make sure to be clear what they are from the start. Some people want their partner to be unemployed, while others expect gainful employment. Some people want children, while others prefer focusing all their attention on their partner and not diluting it with children. Some people save for retirement and potential emergencies, while others feel any money in the account is there to be spent. Some people want a wild social life, while others prefer quiet times at home. There is no right or wrong way, but how can a partner not feel disappointed, bitter and resentful when the truth is withheld from them?

In a healthy relationship, nothing is ever taken from us, for we share what we choose to share. When we're not satisfied with what we have and feel entitled to more, relationships deteriorate. People are generally more satisfied when decisions are made together rather than unilaterally. This has nothing to do with the gender of the individual, but feeling entitled to more will never take you where you want to go.

[Lizsizzie]

I agree with what you’re saying but relationships aren’t 50/50 they’re 100/100- people will and do expect to be indulged in relationships up to a certain point, and I don’t think that’s necessarily unfair, to a certain extent.

[caring__1]

I've never entered a relationship with the expectation of being indulged. My focus has always been how we can work as a team or how I can bring a smile to her face. I focus on what is within my control to influence growth or add to the relationship, not any sense of entitlement. Though you have every right to have expectations of a relationship, what I don't understand is people being reluctant to share those expectations from the start. It's as if they realize their expectations are unrealistic or will lead to their being rejected, so they keep those expectations hidden till the other has fully invested. As I previously said, no one has the right to judge your preferences or expectations, but please explain your thought process for withholding those preferences or expectations in the beginning of a relationship. There will always be people who value what you value, but what do you hope to gain by choosing someone who doesn't value what you value? This belief of 'since I choose you, you're now expected to conform to my ideal' makes no sense and will only lead to you feeling frustrated and disappointed. Accept people as they are, not for the potential you believe they have or how you believe they should be. I don't care how much you believe you can turn your gay friend straight... it's not going to happen.

[JDAC092299]

I don't know why it won’t let me like your comment but hats off to you man, this is the truth 💯

[caring__1]

@JDAC092299 Thank you

[Jamie05rhs]

"while others feel any money in the account is there to be spent.". Yeah; dumbasses who end up broke.

[Jamie05rhs]

Otherwise everything you said was solid!

[caring__1]

@Jamie05rhs That's why there are bankruptcy attorneys. My ex-wife didn't like that I lived within my means, so she found someone else who was willing to live beyond his means, and then ended up filing for bankruptcy.

[Jamie05rhs]

@caring__1 Yep!! 👍

[DarkWinterNights]

Someone clearly has never been taken advantage of for so long that you became resentful.


Let’s take the relationship perspective out and instead say a family member. Say your sister has kids and gets a divorce because her husband is abusive. She needs somewhere to live for awhile so you graciously invite her to live with you. She asks if she can borrow your car to take her kids to school and for various errands. This is all fine because it’s temporary right? How about we fast forward 3 years. She hasn’t gotten a job. She’s still using your car. She leaves the gas tank on empty. She leaves your car filthy. She doesn’t help keep your house clean. She doesn’t pay you rent because she can’t afford it and your utilities are through the roof. She also gets Amazon packages every single day and her stuff is stacked throughout the house. Every time you try and talk to her about cleaning, or helping or pulling her weight she gets extremely defensive and accuses you of being selfish, victim blaming or being abusive yourself.


Now imagine you weren’t her sister but instead her partner. She divorces you- (though at this point you don’t have to be married to be sued for child or spousal support), gets your house and half your retirement. Imagine starting from scratch in your 30’s, or your 40’s. Is this an extreme case? Perhaps. Is it rare? Absolutely not.


Men get bitter because these situations happen to them and those they care about. Do they deserve to die alone because they are wary about opening up to women who have all the power in our legal system to take advantage of them?

[Lizsizzie]

Everyone gets taken advantage of, as you yourself brought up, no matter what sex or type of relationship they have. This is the entire point of the post. Nowhere in the post does it speak to who “deserves” to die alone. It is simply stating a simple irrefutable truth: nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also nothing in your response addresses or contradicts the explicit main message of of mytake which is that the point of relationships is to give and take. You can argue or be scared about the proportions of that all you want but regardless no relationship is worthwhile without it.

[Lizsizzie]

The example is also rendered irrelevant due to the false equivocation of scenarios so as to force a narrative of helplessness justifying resentment. You cannot choose your sister and as a family member you are obligated to help her, yes this will inconvenience you but it is the right thing to do. You choose your partner and you choose to marry them, stop choosing bad women. It’s literally as simple as that. It’s not a thing that every women gets married to get divorced and be single for the rest of their lives especially considering it is a well known fact that women have a much shorter period of “attract-ability” than men. You marry someone who is untrustworthy either for vain reasons, or because you yourself are a bad person, or because you do not have discernment- then you *grant* her a divorce, as it takes two to go through with that procedure as well. Why are men supposedly being taken advantage of for being forced to provide for the children they have made bastards or the product of a broken home due to their selfishness or ignorance? Why shouldn’t divorce be expensive and unappealing? Divorce should be difficult and it should be punitive because the whole point it to discourage people from doing it. Also very few women, at least in the United States, in the majority of states will receive alimony is there is not a child involved excluding literal millionaires.

[msc545]

excellent post, thanks!

[Anonymous]

I’ve honestly never understood not helping your SO. I don’t understand having separate accounts and going half on the bills and rent. I understand having separate accounts and a joint account for bills and any other expenses. But I will never understand your SO having to practically beg for help and then having to pay back what they borrowed.


My sister has a relationship like that her husband blows up on her anytime she needs help so she asks me or other friends for help before she asks help from him. To me a relationship is a partnership; equal, and loving. You shouldn’t have to feel bad for needing help on occasion.

[Lizsizzie]

Legitimately, like in that case you might as well be single anyway.

[Anonymous]

I just want companionship, sex, and respect for companionship, sex, and respect. Seems fair to me, but I guess that depends on what the guy values himself.

[Jamie05rhs]

That's the same thing I want! Lol

[Guy13]

No Risk... No Reward... Crap is going to happen... Hope the relationship survives it is my gist of the post. Is a safe but sexless married relationship more like friends..."loneliness or not?"-referring to that quote in here.

[Bethany22]

I completely agree with you!

[Weapon77]

First, keep in mind that these guys won't even try to look at things from a woman's perspective. But some ladies won't try to see it from a guy's perspective either. I think what it really comes down to is not that the guys you are talking about wanting something for nothing, but rather they want things that very few women actually have to offer, and these guys cannot offer in return what is wanted in return by the women they like. Instead of working out, working innmental health and social awareness and skills, many guys just keep doing the dame thing, failing, and getting more miserable and bitter. Very few guys only want promiscuous women for sex. But the few (about 20%) who do want that are estimated to be having sex with 80% of women. See the problem there? That means there are only 20% of women who are like your friends you describe. And yes, I know they exist since several of my friends are like that, but they are all married. But then why am I not finding any good single girls myself? It coulf be something I'm doing wrong, but also consider how 90% of ladies like that are married by the time they finish college, which leaves almost none left for guys out of college. Is that your fault ir that of your friends? Of course not! But every year, the nunber of good options for most guys dwindles, but for girls, the options just increase. And for married gals, it's obviously not something they need to worry about. I'm not saying what the rude guys say and do is right, but try to understand where the frustration comes from.

Most of the issues would be solved if someone would teach these guys how to identify and avoid harmful women, and where to find good ones. But no one is really giving these guys any help. I've been single for 7 years because of the tumultuous dating culture right now, and I don't know what to do about it. I don't get bitter and hate on women, but I also just kinda gave up. There seems to be no point in trying to date at all if you look from a guy's perspective because it is extremely easy for good women to find a man, but it is extremely difficult for 80% of guys to find a girl at all. It's just different for guys and girls and always has been.

[Weapon77]

And speaking for myself, just staying single is what I've had to do, but you do realize that it isn't as easy as you make it sound in your post, right? Just staying single for guys like me means no intimacy emotionally, physically, or otherwise with any girls at any timrle despite dealingnwith that natural desire every day. It's depressing. I haven't let it turn me bitter, but all I want is a bestfriend to be my girlfriend and later on my wife. It's disheartening that I can't seem to make that hapoen no matter how much I improve myself. It's easy to just tell people to dtay single when one is in a happy relationship, you know? Just staying single only protects me from the betrayal I suffered while trying to date. It won't magically get rid of my desire for connection. And many guys are dealing with the same dilemma.

[Anonymous]

So sad. So bitter. You can't demand to be equal to men, while at the same time demanding men pay for everything and do all the work and be traditional. No matter how much you bitch and moan you cannot have it both ways. You can either be traditional and expect the man to pay for everything, or you can choose to be a modern woman and understand that you need to cover your share and pull your own weight..

Thankfully i am a traditional male. And before you attack me or call men names, I am married 8 years, and my wife and i have been together for 10. When it comes to relationships and marriage, my experience out weighs yours drastically. She is very traditional. Sure she does her thing with volley ball coaching, but thats irrelevant to me financially, i still take care of everything. But again i am a traditional male, and my wife is a traditional woman. i take the lions share of the responsibilities so she does not have to. She does not help and i do not ask her to. In return, i work, and she takes care of the home.

"if you expect or desire a woman to go half on everything with you even after you’re married, as though you were roommates" Interesting way to put it. I bet you still expect to have control over the household finances. The way i see it, if you contribute nothing you get control over nothing. If you pull your own weight financially you get half of the control. See how that works?

All i am seeing from you is a person who expects to be a modern woman who contributes nothing to a marriage or relationship, while expecting the man to contribute, risk, and sacrifice everything. To be a traditional male. That is simply not how it works.

[Lizsizzie]

I’m not a modern woman and you know nothing about me worm.

[Opinion Owner]

The fact that you chose to call me a name shows me exactly how mature you are.

[VanillaSalt]

Agree. This also means more then likely having one person sacrifice their career to keep the family and home rolling… this also means sacrificing your needs and desires for that of your partner and expecting them to do the same.


But why should any man do that? Marriages such a shitty deal for men. I know life has no guarantees but marriage is supposed to be permanent. Not something that can be ended because you don’t feel it anymore. Make better choices.


I like marriage but I don’t support the state it’s currently in. It’s been bastardized by the government. It’s a product of the state now. And if we don’t promise to stay together then I don’t see a reason to put forth the same effort. I’m not buying a house for my “roommate”.

[xJeremyx]

People just seem to get easily offended on G@G.

There are some things you will inevitably end up contributing more than your partner, and there are some things your partner will end up contributing more than you.

Its not about 50/50. Relationships are about reaching a shared equilibrium that accomodates for both persons.

[whiskeyontherocks]

I’m kinda confused about when you’re being positive and negative with your points. I maybe overthink your writing I do that sometimes and confuse myself.
I think you’re basic premise is that relationships should have equal benefits I’m 💯 in support of this.


If I buy my girlfriend a $6,000 ring she better buy me a $6,000 Mountain Bike
If I initiate sex she better initiate sex as well.
If I redo all the electric in our home she better do the plumbing.
Or is that not what you ment?

[Lizsizzie]

You can try and play 50/50 all day but it’s never going to work out. No person is capable of giving the exact same thing as the other person gives in a relationship and if you want it to be worthwhile it will most likely have to be 100/100. I am going to be honest and say you would probably be better off single if you can’t stand the thought of giving anyone anything that is not 100% reciprocated back in the exact same manner, especially when it comes to material girts. You are not really giving if you have this expectation, your forcing someone to accept a loan that you then coerce them to pay back with interest. No one is trying to live with a romantic IRS agent. Mutual benefit means you both give freely and receive freely from one another. It sounds like your more interested in a roommate than a family member, because that’s what our significant others/spouses are- family. I think if you apply your line of thinking to a family scenario you will see how artificial and unloving and burdensome and even insulting it is.

[whiskeyontherocks]

Totally agree and that’s exactly what I implied with my examples. that is a much clearer opinion
my only concern is if one partner gave 100 and there was no reciprocation. I’ve experienced this in my relationships because I was a giving and “nice guy” But after not receiving any physical, Emotional support when I absolutely needed it the most. I started creating healthy boundaries. I like your Idealism but I’m never going to give 100% if I’m not getting 100%.
If you feel like you’re not getting what you’re giving and it’s all the time than do what I did look internally first ask your self “have I given” do your pros and cons look at what emotional, physical, financial value you bring to the relationship. I realized that I was holding my self back from personal growth just so others could float. So what’s your take on health boundaries? And In case you think I’m only thinking of monetary gains with the “value” I’m not. Phycologytoday. com has some great articles that can go more in-depth than I could achieve on this platform.

[Lizsizzie]

Healthy boundaries are having a clear understanding of what you will not put up with a partner not giving you, what you cannot cope with not being reciprocated, but also what you can handle giving more than your fair share of- communicating all of that fairly as well as acknowledging all of that must exist in a healthy relationship is ideal in my view.

[Moose304]

I'm not sure how to respond to this comment. In a way, I agree. In fact, I am single and living a very happy life. I know I don't own a female. I would never be controlling like that. If fact I kind of subscribe to the theory if you love something set it free (you know the rest). The thing is I am rarely alone. I woke up this morning with a very beautiful American Airlines Flight Attendant in my bed. I will sum it up this way. I admit I have trust issues. This is why I will NEVER allow a female into the innermost places of my heart!

[Anonymous]

It's not bitter men who know woman is the exploitative one in "romance" and "relationships", it's men with enough wits and experiences (men who have known only one, or two, women, may well stay unaware of this till late in their life, or for good).

Your post carefully shifts the focus to other things it's hard not to agree with, till the general instinct of womanhood towards men pops out: if you expect or desire a woman to go half on everything with you even after you’re married, as though you were roommates.

We know it's never "half", sweetheart. We know it's not even two thirds (of burdens) to us and one third to you. Trust me, we know it. And it's when we know it and have come to terms with it that we stop being bitter — while warning still-unaware men —.

[sassy_receptor]

well said! i’ve noticed that most of the men who have the “taken advantage of” mindset are usually old, bitter, and jaded. they rather be mad at everyone else than to take accountability. women know better and that’s why they’re already old and alone when they make those statements.

[Chazmatazz269]

Hahahaha! Calls out “bitter men” then proceeds to post some ultimate bitter nonsense! Hahahaha!
Suggests “this is true for men AND women” to produce a facade of “fairness” but not specifying any typically selfish and greedy behaviors of women. Ell oh ell!
You clearly have an agenda. Just own it and stick to your narrative. Nobody is buying your “impartiality” anyway, least of all smart men.
This is fantastic advice for idiots. Smart men and women don’t play themselves for fools.

[Lizsizzie]

Enjoy being alone forever. It is literally impartial advice by the way, even if you try out a gay relationship due to your weird bitter agenda against women, men will expect just as much out of you.

[Solitario_94]

How do you feel about the statement that women are more unfaithful than men? Is it true?

I feel like while women are worth investing in, they don't feel the same way about me all the time, therefore I'm 28 and not married and... Sad.

If I was confident that I was worth something to girls (I mean, shoot, I have a full time job, go to school, and pay rent consistently every month.) I'd probably be with someone I want to be with right now. The problem is that females choose either to not communicate or to hate average guys.

[NerdInDenial]

Absolute freedom does not equal to absolute loneliness. It would lead to anarchy. We must sacrifice some of our freedom to live in a civilized society. Some relationships aren't worth it; this includes relationships with family members. This is because one party of the relationship takes advantage of the other.

[Lizsizzie]

No it would lead to absolute loneliness because in the anarchy you are describing others are somewhat restricting your freedom by fighting back/resisting you. To be absolute free in a perfect system without that resistance would necessitate being perfectly alone. But aside from that I agree with what you’ve said.

[NerdInDenial]

But doesn’t absolute freedom include doing whatever you want? There are many who have nefarious intentions and will invade and attack other’s freedoms. If people lived in an individual vacuum, then your assumption would be correct.

[BUTIMRIGHTTHO]

@NerdInDenial @lizsizzie Ab Freedom does not equal Ab loneliness.
Loneliness is a state of mind and like all states of mind they can be control without external conditions.

Mind is free and so if one does not have mental freedom it is because they choose not too regardless of relationship status.

If one feels lonely it is because they choose to regardless of relationship status.

Same with confidence. We don't need makeup and dresses to feel confident. WE ALLOW ourselves to finally feel confident once we put on these things; but we could have allowed it well before the external things.

However, she brings up loneliness the state of mind and the external express of that is being alone.
@NerdInDenial and so yes in her example the people would have to be alone completely. That would mean she is right and you are wrong. But you already know that.

[FireGodGoesSeeknFire]

Agreed. Entering into relationship, yet on principle deliberately not providing is a rejection of the Masculine and quite frankly an act of self-hatred reminiscent of autocastration.

What is that such men are expecting. Where are going not just with your "life" but yourself. Your spirit.

Sorry, I've said too much
This attitude just erks me so deeply.

[AdithyaR]

Agreed. I'd feel pretty worthless if it felt like my partner doesn't benefit from my presence or doesn't rely on me at all. The whole point I'd want to be in a relationship is to be able to give something to another person's life, to add something to their lives.

[es20490446e]

To be honest, the happiest moments in my life where those where I was single and even without sex.

So imagine how were the relationships like. The fear of dying alone is eclipsed by the bad of being with such messy women.

The feeling of waking up in the morning and feeling "okay, I don't have any of those stupid problems anymore" is priceless.

[Raaj4you]

I understood your point. That's why I still love old school Husband-wife relationship. Marriage is not a business deal. Marriage is all about unconditional love for each other.

If a girl says, "I will love you if you buy me a house, car, property, assets, jewellery, etc". Then this is not true love.

If a man voluntarily can't buy a house, car, property, etc for his wife and children then this is not true love.

[CubsterShura]

This. After being in several relationships where I've been taken advantage of I am no longer ashamed to have standards. I already know what I bring to the table and I don't let these lowlifes convince me that I'm trying to live off of someone.

[YourFavoriteFriend]

Yet another meaningless post where someone judges others without have been in their shoes and trying to understand it. Pathetic and disgusting...

Hope that one day I'll wake up and I'll stop getting disappointed by the human race.

[Jamie05rhs]

In response:

If you think that you deserve to receive more financial benefits than a roommate (which is an egalitarian relationship based on the concepts of fairness and justice and true respect),
YOU should die alone.

Selfish child.

[Lizsizzie]

Spot the incel, have fun with your hand buddy

[Jamie05rhs]

@Lizsizzie Have fun with yours. 😉

[BUTIMRIGHTTHO]

@lizsizzie He's actually a pretty good guy.

[Lizsizzie]

@BUTIMRIGHTTHO pretty bitter and pathetic

[Jamie05rhs]

@BUTIMRIGHTTHO Thanks, bro! Appreciate it.

[Lizsizzie]

I just think it’s really sad that men like you will try to convince women that they should be content with nothing as opposed to actually working to have something to offer. It’s ironic that you should use the word selfish to describe someone stating the obvious about all personal relationships platonic or others: that mutual benefit needs to be presented and not obligated but freely given. You should honestly know and be able to acknowledge as a an adult that you will never experience love or even a fulfilling platonic relationship trying to play tit for tat. I guess this post triggers you so much because that’s where you know you’ll end up. But there’s no need to get upset with me, you could just do something with your life. It is an honest, impartial fact that if you cannot even do so much as share with another human being without childishly and pedantically demanding you receive something in exchange transactionally every single time- you do not even deserve to have friends. You can’t even have friends, with that mindset, because eventually if not initially people will just decide that if they have to give the same thing you just have to them every time you give something to them they would be better off not taking or giving anything from/to you to begin with. Either you’ve made an honestly pathetic response out of emotional distress and you don’t truly apply that theory to the relationships in your life or you are a truly lonely person with no real, worthy connections in very serious danger of dying alone. You should get help, you’re really too old to behave so childishly.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Lizsizzie I do share with my friends. Because you know what? They appreciate it. Someone like you would not. You would get conditioned to expect a certain level of pampering, and then you would have your feelings hurt and grow resentful if it went away.

[Lizsizzie]

You think that treating your SO like and SO instead of a mere friend is somehow unfair. This is not about what I deserve and what h want because a relationship with me is not in the cards for someone like yourself. Someone selfish.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Lizsizzie I would rather eat dog poop, get bitten by 20 cobras, and fall in a vat of acid before dating you.